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question lady
I agree completely with everything you just said exImpact.

Yet, people do go to these things and possibly because they don't like admitting they need help and a large group seminar could sound less threatening, although we know that they are dangerous.

LGATs have been capitalizing on people's reluctance to seek professional counseling or therapy for decades. From the beginning, they have known their customers come from the ranks of the psychologically "walking wounded" who, for any number of reasons, don't want the stigma of having to seek or needing real psychological help. LGATs exploit this fact. The professionals aren't blameless, for sure. They have managed to "pathologize" any number of fairly normal conditions, whether to elevate the status of what they do or to get paid more in some instances, but that's another kettle of fish. LGATs have no business pretending they aren't in the psychology business and should be prosecuted for their deception. Are you familiar with L. Ron Hubbard's "war" against psychiatry? He was roundly criticized for offering psycho-quackery and he also saw them as competition.


Ellen

One of the reasons I asked how people got into Impact was so everyone could hear how they "snag" people. Perhaps your own experience would serve as a lesson to others. If you aren't willing to share that then I question your motives here. I shared. I'll listen to you.

question lady, you are right. I was posing some possibilities as to why anyone would go to Impact. I'm not asking you to agree with them all - I don't even agree with a few of them but perhaps that was a real reason for someone else.

Wow, what a weird day on the thread.

Otter, I've discussed my reasons for being involved in Impact and why I left several times. I am not interested in repeating myself. If you have specific questions after reading the things that I have already posted, please ask them. As far as rhetorric is concerned, if Impacters would stop saying the same crap you probably wouldn't hear the same responses over and over. Beaver1 was victim bashing and commenting on the thread without actually reading it(I say this because his questions and responses had been addressed many times before, therefore it can be concluded that he didn't read the thread).

beaver1, If you have read so much of the forum, then why are you repeating the same stuff that others have said and acting like its new? You're sad that so many people campaign against Impact? Does Cancer research make you sad as well? Impact effects the mind in much the same way that cancer effects the body.

Otter and Beaver, can you guys be objective or do you thrive on being obnoxious?

Ok.... I just want to appologize for the mean-hearted comments I made. I was responding to what I felt was people saying that someone cannot go through impact or any other LGAT without being scared for life. I really had a good experience in the core trainings. I was never humiliated, cut down or felt I was being singled out and made fun of.
I went into quest because I went to a guest night. I felt there was something there for me. It struck some issues I had buried deep and had no desire to address. They came out through the course of my training... these were issues I had gone to many therapists and proffessionals for with no avail. I don't think Impact is the answer to all of lifes problems. There are a few people I knew before and after impact who have aboandoned their faith and their real families and give all of their time to impact. To this I see Impact feeds on people and is very destructive. To those victims I offer my true and sincere apppology. Sometimes on threads like these the true meaning of words does not come through very well.

From another's point of view the exact same question could be asked of you and exImpact.

rrmoderator, yes I did divulge info about myself. I was there to do something to make my life better, not resist what was going on. My therapist hadn't been cutting the cake with me dispite my total openness and cooperation with her.

By the way, does anyone else think that Otter and beaver1 are the same person? Or at least one guy and his fiance collaborating.

Former and ex,
I have some in-laws that are involved in Impact and I would really like to understand why words like help and try are so terrible to use. I konw that it has been mentioned before that these words are some of the first that are labled as bad (for lack of a better term) but not why they are not to be used. I would appreciate the info. Thanks

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Otter
How do you reconcile that with what you know now, and how you chose to live for so long, years in most cases? Don't you want to kick your own butts for buying into their stuff and living it for so long?

Yeah, I want to kick myself in the butt. There are days when I'm so upset about how I treated my family and friends during the years I was with Impact that I do everything I can to not let it drive me crazy. I'm continuously saddened by the "me" attitude I had for all of those years. I went into Impact with this attitude of doing service with an extrinsic motivation. After my training and during the subsequent years I stayed involved things started turning inward and I started doing things for intrinsic value. It was always about serving to increase my own light, or to improve my relationships, or to finally get what I deserve - despite the lip service Impact gave me to the contrary. If I had really opened my eyes up to see the truth I would have realized that all Impact was doing was turning me into a narcissist.

You may respond to this that not all graduates have those results. Not everyone who comes out of Impact feels the same way you do or some other such comment. However, if Impact really wanted to advertise their results they would be willing to do some data collection from graduates - and I'm not talking about the silly survey they give out during the last weekend in lift-off while the trainees are still under the spell. I'm talking about contacting people who have been out of the training for 3, 4, or 5 years, people who have had a chance to jump back into their lives and see what "results" they could create without being babysat by Impact. Every graduate I know who has chosen to not go on to TIT or go back to staff after their training holds Impact as a nice little experience they had one time in their life. They usually say it wasn’t worth the time or the money for what little they got out of it in the end. Granted, I don't know a majority of the Impact graduates and so this data could not be used as a representation of the majority, but those statistics simply do not exist. They do not exist because even if Impact did conduct such follow up studies they would never advertise the results as it would cost them business.

There are enough carbon copies of Impact in the LGAT world with results that are posted on these boards. If Impact is such a great thing and if Hans and Sally REALLY cared about the results they are creating they would do something about all of the backlash, hurt, neglect and pain they are causing to MANY people whether those “many” represent the majority or not. You may say that the few you come out damaged is a small price to pay for the many that have success, but that blows Impact's whole premise that every ONE counts. I’ve heard it said many times by staff, trainers, and trainees that if one doesn’t go nobody goes.

Do you know why everything up to lift-off is in your face, no exception feedback and accountability and then in lift-off the coaching suddenly becomes fluffy and first grade-esque? Because if the coaches in lift-off treated you like the trainers in Quest and Summit there would be no one left in lift-off. If this up front in your face look at your results is so effective how come it is not implemented in the training that is supposed to be the lift-off into life? I've coached enough lift-offs to know the difference between a staff member of lift-off and a staff member in Quest and Summit. In grounding for Quest and Summit staff they told us to stay out of the trainees’ way and let them experience their own results whether they be perceived as good or bad. As a lift-off coach I was told that it’s time to be the "cheerleader". I can’t tell you how many times I was told by a lift-off coordinator not to coach a trainee on their lateness or sometimes even absence to a lift-off weekend, or their missing of a guest presentation, or a neglect of one of their challenges or stretches simply because they were enrolling in Quest. The only reason this sudden neglect of accountability makes sense is because the "rules" from Quest and Summit can't be applied to the real world. Without the controlled environment it's all bulls**t. If I can keep anyone from wasting their money, time, energy, resources, and relationships on that crap I'm going to do it. If I'm perceived as a jaded Impact hater for doing it that is fine, but that doesn't make my experiences any less real. Just because these things don’t "appear" to happen to the majority doesn't mean they don’t happen or that the casualties are worth it. The lack of empathy Otter and beaver1 choose to show to the people who post on these boards is only a result of the training you've experienced.

On another note, I agree with exImpact that mental conditioning is an immoral practice and that Impact’s use of it is inexcusable and unforgivable. If you’re a graduate and you’ve never questioned whether you’ve been brainwashed or not or if you’re not aware that they even utilize these techniques how could you possibly know that it’s been done to you? Because that’s the whole point behind mental conditioning techniques. So if you’ve never questioned your own mental conditioning how can you know it has or hasn’t happened? I also agree with his assertion that all graduates of the program are victims of this conditioning and that it is validly active in their lives whether they want to admit it or not.

Otter, it's taken me awhile to respond to your comments because upon first reading them I did feel as if you were trying to trap me into the corner that says, "Well, just because it happened to you doesn't mean it happens to everyone and that it's a bad thing." The guilt and pain I feel frequently because of the disinterest in my friends and family over the past 3 years is something I'm constantly working to reconcile within myself. So, my initial reaction to your asking was defensive. I have chosen to respond because your question could be completely innocent and valid. I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Former, I re-read all of your posts and gleemed the info I was asking. Thank you for putting it out there for us to read. Am I correct in saying that you went to Impact to save a relationship that didn't end up working, and you weren't all into it from the beginning? That's what I got from your post. It was brave of you to enter Impact to save a relationship. Most people will keep doing the same thing and hope the situation changes, but you did something different to get a different result. Was it his/her idea that you go, kinda like you were being pressured into it? I've heard people say that if their spouse didn't go to Impact, they would divorce them. Now that's wacked.

Does anyone else care to tell me how they got into Impact?

For the record...I am not beaver1.

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question lady
I agree completely with everything you just said exImpact.

Yet, people do go to these things and possibly because they don't like admitting they need help and a large group seminar could sound less threatening, although we know that they are dangerous.

Granted, but isn't that just another reason why people seek mental health in this form? I think it fits under the umbrella of my last reply. I don't see why this distinction you are pointing out is important or significant. It only seems that this merely confirms that there is a market that exists for these trainings, and where there is a market, it can be exploited. But this, I do not think, requires any more confirmation. Scams exploit ignorance. Easy peasy. Why is this significant to you? I do admit, just because I don't think its important doesn’t mean it is not, but I don't understand what value you see here.

Otter, I asked questions, I did not attack your fiancé. That accusation is ludicrous. Also, I know you don't see that you are victim bashing. I'm not so sure you see anything beyond what you want to see. Impact's conditioning at work. Hey, by all means, take the board away if you have something valuable to offer rather than seeking to "tone down" the injustices I aim at Impact by insinuating that it is only opinion and not fact.

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Otter
I actually laughed out loud at the last few posts. Thanks for an entertaining day. Just read the rules - thanks rmoderator. I shall refrain from trolling or making fun of anyone here.

You laugh out loud at the serious and harsh situations that are presented here. That is one instance. Another:

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Otter
Whoa former...watch the rhetoric lest you sound hypocritical. Sounds like you are talking about yourself because it seems like you fit that part. You have said Impact did things to you that are damaging.

It sure isn't easy being an Impact apologist on this board. I keep smiling all the same.

I’m glad you are smiling at the pain and destruction people claim Impact has caused, Otter. I am not smiling. Also, former HAS already answered this question. You do not think that coming to all of the realizations he has come to and has shared on this board qualify for sufficient reason to leave?!? The details of his departure are irrelevant. You dodge most the questions of what Rick has posed, and you never have addressed the circular logic and mental conditioning practices of the training.

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formerimpactgrad
By the way, does anyone else think that Otter and beaver1 are the same person? Or at least one guy and his fiance collaborating.

Former: actually, my question is, did Otter [i:e322b4b494]lie[/i:e322b4b494] about not being in TIT? Because all of his posts lacked the TIT jargon until he began waxing poetic in the Tetons. Then it was all TIT. Could he have lied and given his identity over to the TIT fiancé he mentioned earlier in his replies? What reason do you think he had to lie in this fashion, if you are of the opinion that he did?