Quote
Otter
exImpact, you asked me if I thought you were "bitter liars" and the answer to that is no. I am sure you are not lying about your expereinces. The posts you have made do sound a tad bit bitter though. As your experience was just as real to you as mine was to me, I cannot come up with any "cogent arguments" to address your claims. I'm not here to argue anything, only express my opinoin and answer any questions that I can. Arguing gets us nowhere...its two or more people trying to persuade each other that their opinion is better. Remember, opinions are like butts - everyone has one and they all stink (mine included).
An argument in logic and mathematics is any statement presented in premise and conclusion form. Your opinions and decisions are all arguments, you cannot escape making them, here or anywhere else. A cogent argument is one that is coherent, like so:
Premise 1) I believe/think/know X
P2) You believe/think/know Y
P3 through P whatever) this is why X is true….
Conclusion) Y is logically incompatible with X.
Arguing gets us everywhere my friend. Why would you even post from an apologetic point of view for Impact if your whole intention is not to argue against what has been said? Your claim of “not being here to argue” is false. It is my opinion that is exactly what you are here to do (which is great), but that you want to appear that you are taking the moral high road by not participating in the very thing you are participating in. Simply by posting your opinion you are making an apologetic argument for Impact. Also, opinions are all anyone has Otter, and they don’t “stink” as that nonsense platitude implies. If you think your opinion stinks, why bother giving it? As far as being bitter, you are damn right, but your implication that being bitter is somehow an inferior “way of being” offends me. I am aware you did not directly say that it was inferior, but that you made mention of it at all speaks to that opinion. If you believe what I am saying about my experiences, why do they not concern you? You come across as unempathetic. If you want to stay “above of the drama” as you are coached, why would you post here, when from Impact’s point of view this is as dramatic as it gets?
Quote
Otter
Your logical analysis of the "it’s about you" sounded good on the surface but I don't agree with some of the premises you had. Here at my work, I may do things that the employees don't like. They can either say "He's an idiot and incompetent, that new process he implemented sucks and I don't like doing more work" or they can say "he had to make a hard decision and I'm sure there is a good reason for it and I will do my job and use that process." Its how the employee chooses to look at the situation and act on that info. Accountability and being a victim (not being a victim, but lets talk in the language of increase, as someone earlier pointed out
If you disagree with my premises, why won’t you address them? Your anecdote concerning your employees fell far short of achieving this. You aren’t even talking about the same thing; you made an analogous argument that was not analogous. All you succeeded in doing is telling me that if there is mistreatment or unethical behavior being done to you, it’s ok if you are willing to look at it differently. You are describing the rationalization abused women use to stay with their abusers. You cannot use a “lighter” or less severe example to prove your point when the subject is severe and tragic in content. How about, let’s [i:0d68df0401]not[/i:0d68df0401] talk in the language of increase here because it is semantics. Impact states that there are “no victims” in life. Tell me how a little girl chooses to be kidnapped by a neighbor she innocently trusts, trapped in a basement, molested repeatedly and killed, isn’t a victim. Tell me how 1300 people living in Indonesia were killed in an earthquake chose to die because they just wanted to live in Indonesia. Tell me how 30 or so college students chose to be shot and killed at the hands of demented and abused colleague simply because they wanted to go to school that day. If you can prove to me that these people actually CHOSE to die in the manner they did, you win. If you cannot, you MUST see that Impacts logic falls apart and the rest of it is moot. However, I will not accept theodicy as explanation, no “it was an agreement in the pre-mortal life” explanations. I do not assume any of your religious or spiritual premises to explain your logic. While I was facilitating, this accountability logic would always confuse those who were abused as children, and we could only tell them, “But you can choose how it has affects you now, cant you?”. Well, of COURSE they can, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t victims in the first place! If even one person in the history of the world has been victimized, it kills Impacts logic. Even the naïve 16 year old girl who sneaks out to go dancing with friends because she wants to have fun and gets raped in the process is a victim, notwithstanding that it was a bad decision to have underage fun, and that she was no longer an innocent. You want to blame the victims for being victims? That is called mental conditioning by means of traumatizing the ego into believing they are their own rapist/abuser/natural disaster. It is immoral, unclean, and abominable.
Quote
Otter
Madshus, yes this training is a "comtrolled and systematic" method that I expereinced. GREAT! Its what "served me best" as an Impacter would say. Someone earlier said they thought Impact people were lazy because they are taking the easy shortcut. I see it as a way to get what I deserve and whether that's the easy way or the hard way, I am getting there. What's wrong with choosing a course of action that ends up being the easy route? I don't often choose the sheer rock face of a mountain to get to the top because there are trails to hike instead (although I love rock climbing). Whatever I was doing prior to Impact wasn't getting me what I wanted - in my job, in my relationships, in my spirituality, in other areas.
The problem is that you only address my accusation of “laziness” in this paragraph. What I was referring to was mental health and discipline. You, again, are trying to support your position with analogous examples that are not analogous. You say that you got nothing from therapy, and that Impact was better. To have success in therapy, you must be willing to put in the time and effort to achieve true functionality and discipline. I suspect you were not up to the task, and when Impact offered you the short cut, you took it. I do not believe you have the mental recovery you claim to have. I could be wrong, but I have seen it happen so many, many times, I wouldn't bet on it. I have said it before, if you knew that you were being brainwashed or mentally conditioned, it wouldn’t work.
Quote
Otter
I am here to discuss what I can and leave alone that which I know nothing about. I will talk about and answer questions that are asked in sincerity, and I don't respond well to arguments, condescention, or incredulity of my opinion…Former, ex...can you tell me specific ways that Impact screwed you up? Please be careful to differentiate between what they did and what you did. They are two different things.
The problem I have with this statement is that you are wanting to leave alone what you do not know about. Why the hesitancy to go and learn about what we are talking about? Self imposed ignorance is a side-effect of mental conditioning. Do you really think that you have to experience something personally to learn about it? Do you think doing otherwise is committing the sin of the black magic you call “gossip”? They tell you not to gossip in order to control you. The office staff are the biggest bunch of gossip mongers I have ever known, but again, I am repeating myself. I have already stated how, in many ways, Impact affected my life and I have sited many examples I have witnessed of how other people have been traumatized and/or ruined. I will not pander to your unwillingness to read all of what has been posted, not only about Impact, but all of the other LGAT threads. Impact is a rip-off of Lifespring, which is a clone of Landmark etc. To not investigate all of the information available before you grace us with your opinion is…for lack of a better term, lazy. What I did is I decided to trust Impact. What they did to me is what they do to everyone whether you beleive it or not, which was screw me over with their semantics and lies. Go read the rest. It is unfortunate that you do not respond well to these kinds of criticisms to your opinions, but when posting opinions on a site where your views may be unpopular, it is likely that it will happen. The price you pay as it were.
Here are a few questions I think you should ask your TIT fiancé: What do you think of our accusations of TIT being a cult? I was there when we made the damn training, and I know the in’s and out’s of it and what went into making it. The angel readings and the apostolic staffs and the claims of godhood. I mean, for the readers of this post, I think it is valuable for them to know that TIT trainees believe that they are God. Not only A god, but also, literally GOD. How do you remain LDS and ILDS at the same time? How do you bring together the incompatibilities of the Berger doctrines and those of the LDS church? To be in TIT is to disbelieve in the patriarchal passing down of the priesthood. How do you reconcile that paradox? Or are you one of the LDS members of TIT who just thinks it’s all true, or that the truth will ultimately reveal itself? Have you told your bishop that you consider yourself a Christ? That you engage in healing circles with your wooden staff and that LDS men AND women invoke priesthood authority with people who think they have the same authority to create miracles and healing although they are not ordained? Also, if everyone is a god and has the authority to act on His behalf, does that not render LDS ordination impotent, and yes, all of the priesthood ordinances and endowments wholly unnecessary? Or do you just think you and the other LDS TIT members are walking the true Impact path and everyone else will catch up someday. If so, does that not neutralize any of impact’s claims that everyone is equal no matter their religious affiliation? What about other religions? If you believe there is no right or wrong, doesn’t that mean that everyone is right? And if so, why even believe in any religious distinctions and hold on to your now unnecessary LDS affiliations? Your fiancé is not LDS anymore whether she admits it or not. She is ILDS and her attachments to that church are irrational if she truly believes the TIT doctrine. How do you reconcile that everyone can be a prophet/seer/revelator? That eliminates the need to follow an ordained prophet. Also, if Lord Michael and Saint Germaine are so necessary to the progression and salvation of humanity, why has President Hinkley not revealed their necessary involvement? If it’s important enough for God to tell Hans that they are crucial, why not Pres.Hinkley? Or is TIT more pure and important a platform for this information to be given, and if so, why remain affiliated with the inferior LDS organization? The LDS church claims that it is ONLY through their revelation and doctrine that a man/woman may ultimately be saved. If you truly believe this, why wasn’t that organization good enough for you on its own? Or do you remain with that church, as I heard so many other ILDS members claim, because they desire to serve there and contribute to bringing true enlightenment to the organization, which effectively reduces their fidelity to the church down to lip-service. If you ask her these questions, I’d be interested in her responses.