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Rswinters
Please don't hear me trying to not hold LGAT's accountable here.

Read the rest of my posts that I have made on other threads and you will see very clearly how we are in agreement here.

No worries, I can only respond to specific posts and not to the sum of your contribution. I only commented on what I deemed appropriate for the content of that particular post. I see we agree that LGAT's are a plague, and on other points as well. A healthy dose of "WTF [i:37d8dd02a0]did[/i:37d8dd02a0] I do or [i:37d8dd02a0]could[/i:37d8dd02a0] I have done to my life and to others?" is necessary to scare the LGAT stupids out of us, but if used in excess it can be counter-productive. Thats all I was meaning to say, not just to you but to all the viewers of the forum.
Cheers,
ex

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Hopeful Soul
"There is no hope." This is an axiom of at least Quest. It ranks with "Understand" being the booby prize of the universe, quoting Werner Erhard of course. I think (feel) that these are evidence of the undervaluing of rational thinking. What say others?

Hello Hopeful Soul, I see this is your first post since joining in Janurary. I'm curious as to what your experience with LGAT's are (if any) or what initially sparked your curiosity to join these forums, and what finally inspired you to leave a comment. If you care to share that is. Either way, thanks for your interest :)
ex

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Whoa
Well, it looks like my brainwashed love has completely shut me out. I'm at a loss here. I'm of mind, that my parents taught me when I was in evil mode long ago, that when you care about someone you dont give up on them. But, if you are shut out, what exactly can you do? I swear, this is like cruel and unusual punishment. I'm not going to play poor pitiful me, I'm just wondering WHY this group promotes this behavior???? It seems the happier I am, the more I smile, the more this person wants away from me. So, either this is a group thing, or it's an act. All I know is, I dont even know this person anymore.

So, Ex: what do you suggest? You said you are living proof of someone who got out because those who cared about you never gave up. Is that something you can elaborate on? How were you 'de-programmed'?

This whole Impact thing has got my guts in knots. And as for pounding my head bloody, believe me, I've done so already. "Is this person/relationship worth the effort?" I believe so with every part of me.

Background with well phrased lies that will successfully address the issues without giving away who they are, hmmm...I'll have to think on that and see what I can come up with to post.

As I see it, there is nothing wrong with playing poor, poor pitiful me. It’s a pitiful situation Whoa. Impact does not overtly initialize this “family’ nonsense, the trainees seem to come to it themselves based on the apparent intimacy they engage in. But when even a sniff of it reaches the trainers nostrils, they jump on it and promote it as if their wallets depend on it. And they do. This is why I said it’s an insidious weapon, it is what initially instills an US vs. THEM mentality and helps keep the trainees hooked on the addiction of illusional love and intimacy. People go through emotional trauma in these trainings. LGAT’s use emotional trauma to attack the mind and break down the ego. In order to fall for this, your friend must have been insecure in their beliefs about all things family before walking into quest. People hide desperation almost more than anything else, no? It shows weakness and damages self esteem to willingly accept one is desperate.

In my case, I went to college and became familiar with logic, behavior, philosophy and theology. My desperation blinded me to my education and I dove deeply into the Impact sea. A woman I met through Impact became a close friend, and when her and her family’s situation at Impact became unimaginably horrific and untenable, she left. We almost stopped being friends. She was so militantly anti-impact, I really didn’t listen to her complaints at first, but as the realization of the truly f***ed up situation came to light, I began to doubt. After 6 months, she calmed down a little and began to casually give logical arguments against Impact, and being who I am and that I trusted this person more than I trusted anyone at Impact, I listened. My other friend had been my bud since junior high and got one of his degrees in philosophy. When he saw I would listen finally, he just used what he knew I knew about logical arguments and rationality against me, but with long suffering patience and tact. Those two reinforced my education and it was like night and day. Something happened on a ropes course between me and another trainer that convinced me once and for all that it was ALL crap, and I’ve never looked back. Basically they responded to a question I asked them and used their natural knowing to assume I meant one thing when they couldn’t have been more wrong. The funny thing is that it wasn’t even a deep or profound subject, it was simple and casual, but it was the mundane nature of my question that proved to me that this spiritual “natural knowing” was all garbage. And without that, the trainers are all charlatans and deluded ego-maniacs. It all came together. I had a few heated words with the Bergers and others, and I was asked to never come back. If they had any natural knowing, they would have known a bull elephant with a bazooka couldn’t drag me back. Nor would they have let Robert Parisola the child molester be the most public supporter of their vision, or had let a married TIT staff member (whose wife was ALSO a staff member) sleep with the wives of other TIT trainees. All this and much, MUCH more! Um, not only that, but they would know who exImpact really is and I would not have been accused of being someone else (just as formerimpactgrad has been) in another forum :roll: .

So, it can be done Whoa. It’s all in the details. You said it is a love ay? For how long? Are you married? Husband or wife? It matters. If you are gay I can see how it might be revealing to Impact, many do not go through, but any helpful lie would be...helpful.

Also, have you hade any direct experience with Impact or other LGAT's? the "poor pitiful me" comment is very commonly used. Just askin' 'sall :)

I took a look at the website for Impact Trainings for the first time in a long time, and noticed they have removed the bios for the individual instructors... which I find somewhat interesting.

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Madshus
I took a look at the website for Impact Trainings for the first time in a long time, and noticed they have removed the bios for the individual instructors... which I find somewhat interesting.

Wow, you are right. That is interesting. It might be egotistical to say that we had anything to do with it, but we have been making specific claims about the content of the trainings that were previously unavailable to the public. Maybe they now feel they need to protect the identities of their trainers. One would think that Lord Michael's blue flame of protection would be enough... :wink:

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exImpact
Maybe they now feel they need to protect the identities of their trainers...

I was thinking along the same lines... but of course Impact Trainings are completely innocent and there is no need for the trainiers to be weary of someone finding out they are associated with this group... :wink:

Time will tell. 8)

What I think is interesting is that it demonstrates how, to the core, paranoid and insecure they are [i:605d5f029a]despite[/i:605d5f029a] all their claims of invincible, light-given courage. I saw this happen on more than one occasion, when the crap hit the fan, the energy garbage gave way to cold, hard utilitarian damage control.

This post is mainly for eximpact and formerimpactgrad, but any one else can post.

My best friend has been through impact, all levels including TIT 3. He has wanted me to go and is a classic textbook case according to your posts. He has the crystals, does not believe in the atonement, etc. Everything you guys have said, he is. He offered me the discount quest, and has done everything to try and get me to go. I have not gone, and after reading the forum I will avoid it like the black plague. Let me tell you I am very strong in the LDS Mormon church, and he was to. Last semester he was taking a lot of LDS religion classes and I was to. He was very spirutual, possibly even more so than I in the LDS way not impact "spiritual". Ever since he has started the trainings he has gone down hill, he drives me crazy in the way he talks about things and whenever I try to ask him about stuff, he says I won't understand because he is "vibrationally or spirutally above me" . Recently I spent a weekend vacation with him and my other best friend. He told us that he was no longer LDS and had left the church. He said that he had a testimony of everything except the atonement and explained to me and my other sane friend, what you guys said was taught in an evasive, "impact answer" kind of way. He tried to teach me the "help" and "assist" lesson. He has gone off the deep end and is clearly brain washed. Is there anything I can do to get him back or reverse the brainwashing? What do you guys suggest?

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jeffaroonyo24
This post is mainly for eximpact and formerimpactgrad, but any one else can post.

My best friend has been through impact, all levels including TIT 3...Let me tell you I am very strong in the LDS Mormon church, and he was to. Last semester he was taking a lot of LDS religion classes and I was to. He was very spirutual, possibly even more so than I in the LDS way not impact "spiritual". Ever since he has started the trainings he has gone down hill, he drives me crazy in the way he talks about things and whenever I try to ask him about stuff, he says I won't understand because he is "vibrationally or spirutally above me" ...He has gone off the deep end and is clearly brain washed. Is there anything I can do to get him back or reverse the brainwashing?

I fully understand both your mental and religious concerns for your friend. Please understand that I do not share the LDS faith, but I was born Mormon and left when I was nineteen. Leaving the church did not keep me from remaining interested in theology, even LDS theology. I hope to be able to give both concerns equal attention.

Jeff, I will attempt to better frame the situation your friend is in so that you may be able to help him more effectively. And note that I said “may”. First, the after effects of the mental conditioning techniques Impact employs. Your friend’s religious views are a secondary problem, a byproduct if you will of the mental conditioning he has received. His new religious views are reinforced by this conditioning. He has been humiliated, torn down, emotionally scarred and has been conditioned to view his mind as “the enemy”. What he was like as a child, his relationships with his parents, any kind of pain and/or mental or physical abuse he endured has been brought up and used against him. He is in a state of mental trauma, and rational retardation. This damage can be mild or severe, but from what you’ve told me already, he is in neck deep.

Religiously, he is no longer LDS, so you can’t treat him as such. Any discussion you have in that vein will be seen as an attack, or in the least, impotent. He is now ILDS (no offense intended for members of the International League of Dermatological Societies. I for Impact. TITLDS would have been more humorous, but this is serious business, right?) and believes that mainstream Christianity has Christ and His message wrong. Also possibly that the early influence of mainstream converts to the LDS faith perverted the true message of Joseph Smith and that Smith had to make changes for practical reasons. This is a common belief among the ILDS members of TIT, but it is not explicitly taught. He believes that the Celestial glory is not a glory that can be obtained, but rather that he has obtained it already. That we all have, it simply a matter of how we are using our Divine powers. Hans Berger says that the knowledge of how to create a world is within each one of us. Your friend now believes that not only Hans and the other office staff are prophets, seers and revelators, but that he is also one of them. The trainers take great pains to claim that the trainees have equal status with the trainers (hence the term Trainers In Training. These claims of equality are wholly bogus in practice btw.), but also have equal status with Jesus Christ, Archangel Michael, Saint Germaine, Buddha and more. They also use universal and inclusive spiritual practices to take away the warlike boundaries between religions, and that for some is very refreshing. An example being, “You are right and I am right! Even though one of us is totally, completely, without a doubtly, ass over tip, WRONG!” It is also logically contradictory. They don’t even know the definition of the word “equivocation”. For Impactees reading this, here you go, a-la Encarta:

E-quiv-o-ca-tion (noun)

3. wrong logical conclusion

LOGIC: an invalid conclusion based on statements in which one term has two different meanings

Something that was interesting to me is that your friend actually told you that he was at a higher spiritual vibration than you etc. Not all trainees will do that, only the insecure or immature will do this, because the spiritual elitist tone of the ILDS fills this gaping void of inferiority and they feel compelled to shove it down the throats of the non-believers. Even the ones who appear more secure do this, but in more devious and subtle ways. It is my opinion that your friend, in expressing this, has a well developed inferiority complex and that is how Impact was able to get to him. His foundation of faith was also very flimsy, whether you think it was strong or not. It wasn’t. Any ILDS person who says they had a strong faith before going into it is delusional. Now, just because you have a temple recommend or an authoritative position, or are active LDS, if you are in TIT, you are I-LDS, not LDS. Thinking otherwise is nonsense. It’s going to make him very, very stubborn. Now he feels he is one of the moral elite and is actually tight-rope walking on the iron rod to the Tree of Knowledge. Although he now believes the tree is inside him as opposed to outside and he is balancing on the rod for all he is worth, because if he falls, he’d have to admit how utterly stupid and naïve he has been, and the avoidance of humiliation and shame can be enough for us to keep doing crazy, crazy crap, even though we may have doubt. It is my opinion that the tendency for most LDS is to believe they are of the moral elite gives Impact an “in” they may not have with the irreligious.

The truth is, your friend may never come back to the church after this. Again, I said “may”. The few Mormons I have known who have left the training after TIT because they know it is bullshit, never went back to organized religion. They, like me, now think that it is all crap, and you must understand, it is because we ourselves were irrational religious fanatics, and it is hard to see religion as anything else but. The main reason is I feel I was raped by my religious beliefs, and going back to anything resembling religion is like re-visiting the scene of the crime. Some do retreat back into their religious beliefs, stronger in that faith, but, honestly that is an assumption. I don’t know anyone who has done that after the TIT level. Quest and Summit though, yeah, sure. The religious conditioning hasn’t really begun at that point. You are goung to have to be okay with this possibility, Jeff. He needs to recalim his mind and his dignity before he will ever be ready to take on God again. If you want to help him, put religion away and use logic. Reaquaint him with it, poke him and prod him with it. Get that brain going.

Before I can help you further, any more detailed information you can give about the kind of person they are (were) mentally (most important) and/or religiously without giving away their identity is needed.

What do you think Jeff? I’m at your disposal.
E to the X

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exImpact
What I think is interesting is that it demonstrates how, to the core, paranoid and insecure they are...

Awhile back I made a post inquiring why those who are so 'pro Impact Training' do not more readily reveal the extent of their involvement with the group, especially in the professional world outside of the trainings. If it is so great, why not list it on the resume, etc?

Perhaps it's because they realize there are multitudes of others who have looked at Impact Trainings with a mature, open, critical and intelligent mind, and the instructors know such individuals cannot be duped. The instructor bios may return to the site one day, but if not, there are many of us out here who remember the names... and the recollection is not all that favorable.