....You know, Nettie, pondering on this a bit, and having read back to your earlier posts, I'd be willing to venture that most of the supposed "content" of the programs is not particularly harmful, not particularly profound, basic sort of stuff, mostly benign, or even somewhat helpful. I wouldn't call it earth-shattering or ~transformational~ or anything really outstanding, but it's pretty standard stuff that I can't find much fault with, on the surface. The problem, or problems, is that there are poisonous seeds, subtle, hidden, and deeply planted that one may or may not discover until much later, after they have taken root and altered the course of one's life in often tragic ways. Probably, for most people, these seeds are barely felt and so easily dismissed or ignored. Perhaps they only show themselves in times of great stress or trouble, when they spew their evil pollen and put a taint on everything important and good. I would like to think that most people recognize these troublesome spores and root them out when they appear but I know this not to be the case in the few people I've known who were "graduates." I'm wondering if you could identify some of these "seeds" and maybe help some others to find them? One I find most repellent that I recall from the earlier "est" days was the denigration of "sympathy," which Werner Erhard practically spit out as some disgusting response that only weaklings or losers would feel or express. I'm interested in your thoughts.


Ellen

I should clarify,

In what I've written above I mean the average attendee, not employee or long-term "follower."


Ellen

I remember that I reacted harshly when my father said that we should have a "nice time" once (during dinner). Having a nice time was not good according to landmark. Having a nice time would be a waste of time where people would be INAUTHENTIC.

No - it should be an "extraordinary time" where people should SHARE THEMSELVES out of generosity.

The point is - you were only ok if you spent this time the landmark way.

I remember my father's reaction - he looked scared. So much for creating a loving relationship.

My father never took the course.

Ellen - I agree that the most harmful things are the things that seem to have been incorporated into the being of a participant.

I can see that after having done the course everything that was not according to forum "technology" was "bull". So depending on how much you had taken the bait of the "technology" you became an asshole in various degrees.

The hidden seeds would be different for different people. I think they can be detected by when a person has a viewpoint that seems to be written
in stone and it can't be challenged.

nettie

One thing that the forum leader made sure everyone understood was that
"you cannot win an argument with me".

This is very often adopted by forum graduates - they become "know-it-alls" with whom it is quite impossible to argue with.

There is a saying, I can't remember who authored it, "there is no reasoning with a fool". I'd say that applies to the aforementioned landmark leader.

Landmark, like a lot of other groups and cults, uses bits and pieces of actually useful stuff and philosophies as part of their "schtik". If everything they said or taught sounded like nonsense, they likely wouldn't be that successful. But, then again, there's the Heaven's Gate gang.

I took the Landmark 3 day forum and found a lot of useful stuff to help myself with - I skipped "graduation nite" and when I had to call & invite people with a landmark stooge standing next to me, I just dialed my own number and talked to my answering machine each time, faking the conversations.

I realized later, that a lot of their teachings were available thru a variety of sources and authors and any well - stocked library or bookstore. The thing with what they teach is that a lot of it can be useful when used to a degee, not necessarily practiced as they preach.

For instance, the idea that events happen and we are the ones responsible for attaching meaning to them and creating "rackets" from doing so is helpful in that if I can turn something in my past around to the idea that I was responsible for the personal meaning of an event, that means to me that I have some responsiblity or power in it. To me, that says that I have the power to effect change in my perception of who's responsible and who's really victimized - making it easier for me to see myself no longer as a powerless victim, but someone who can change their outlook and be more powerful in guiding my life.

That's a little convoluted, but I don't know how else to describe it, in any case, that has been of immense help to me - but. like anything else, can be taken too far.

The "sympathy" issue is another. Do you enjoy feeling responsible for the situation or circumstances of every person that hits you up for $$, regardless of their story or "tale of woe". Are you rich enough to pay them all off?? Learning how to reign in feelings of personal responsiblity for other people (masquerades as true sympathy - ace #1 tool of con artists, next to greed) is a way of being responsible and good to yourself.

There's no shortage of people out there trying to make a living off of our backs, using an overactive sense of sympathy to jack up feelings of guilt for their gain. Then again, there's no need to become an emotionless, uncaring robot either. It's a matter of judgement and personal discretion.

I have reason to believe from a reliable source that the Department of Labor would like to talk to individuals who have present/past experience volunteering at Landmark Education in any capacity.

The contact person at the United States Department of Labor is:

[b:819af346be]Rebecca Clark, United States Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division
clark.rebecca@dol.gov = email

415-744-5590 extension 240 = phone, or ask for Rebecca[/b:819af346be]

you rock ajinajan!! Keep up the great work and I hope things turn out the same way in my corner of the world.... :P

Quote
ON2 LF
you rock ajinajan!! Keep up the great work and I hope things turn out the same way in my corner of the world.... :P

Well, we have seen from the French Labor Investigation in 2004 that there is an interest in this problem by [b:6067239f67]Departments of Labor in other countries[/b:6067239f67] that have an active Landmark presence...

absolutely, and the great thing is, the interested individuals haven't yet been infected with this nasty virus so loosely referred to as 'transformation'.
It would be interesting to find out whether the National Film Board of Canada has any landmark enthusiasts on the payroll...