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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 18, 2006 01:26PM

Thanks to all of you who is following this post!

[b:7aca631180]THE STEPS IN ENROLLMENT[/b:7aca631180]
- create a powerful relationship
- identify a problem area
- talk about a possibility of handling that problem by doing the forum
- make the person sign and pay now

[b:7aca631180]CREATE A POWERFUL RELATIONSHIP[/b:7aca631180]
I watched a TV-program a few years back. According to that program a car salesman had to go through 42 steps to close a deal (according to some sales technique). I guess that the creator of that technique had made more DISTINCTIONS in the area of selling. One step was to always go to boss to try to get som extras for free when the customers were sitting in front of you, just before signing the papers. This would make the buyers think that the salesman was on their side. It was portrayed beautifully in the movie Fargo where in one scene the salesman goes back to talk to his boss. The buyers sees him talking to the boss through the glass divider and they think he is actually talking about getting something extra. He talks about football with his boss.

They thought he was on his side. But it was really just one of the steps. They bought the car but were royally p-d off because the salesman had tricked them and they sensed it.

In landmark you create relationship by chit-chatting with the enrollee. You will try to find out who had invited him/her. Ask what they had seen in their friend. Have the enrollee talk. Use the RECREATION technique. RECREATION means to make the enrollee hear that you have heard what he has said. In the introduction leader program we practised this by sitting in front and try to be like a parrot. Repeating exactly what our practise partner said.

Of course you cannot create any rapport with another person by repeating exactly their words. They will think you are crazy. You will have to find a suitable way to rephrase what they just said.
If you do this well the enrollee will think you really care about them. The only thing you care about is getting to the next step.

[b:7aca631180]IDENTIFY A PROBLEM AREA[/b:7aca631180]
This would have to be something that would be a BREAKTHORUGH result for the enrollee. It couldn't be something small. It had to be big so the enrollee is PRESENT TO UNLIMITED POSSIBILITY. If the problem area would be something that the enrollee could accomplish anyway it was no good. Most of the time you would try to find something that had to do with relationships, career, life changes. The "biggies" in life.

If the previous steps were done in a powerful way so that the enrollee was PRESENT TO UNLIMITED POSSIBILITY you would ask if the enrolle would think it worth spending a weekend and some money to INVESTIGATE this problem area.
If No - go back 1 step
If Yes - go to the next step

[b:7aca631180]MAKE THE PERSON SIGN AND PAY NOW[/b:7aca631180]
It was thought in landmark that UNLIMITED POSSIBILTY is a CREATION by WORDS. That's what the 3 previous steps was all about - a lot of words. When you stop talking POSSIBILITY DIES. It's a creation here and now. That's why you have to make the person sign and pay now. If they go home and think about it they will have to be taken back through all the steps again. It might go quicker but still - it's a lot of work. Let's get it over with. Let's give the enrollee a pretaste of MAKING A DECISION.

This is why landmark uses so much pressure. They press the enrollee because all the assistants and leaders are pressed from above to have people do the forum.

When people have done the forum and go out to enroll people they are not aware that POWERFUL RELATIONSHIP is the key. They think that if they say to their spouse; "please just come and see what it is" then the forum leader or a trained recruiter will take them all the way. The forum leader is aware of this and knows that the most important thing is the trust that the friend or collegue can create with the enrollee.

That is why SHARING is so important. If you share yourself to the point when the receiver is TOUCHED, MOVED AND INSPIRED then the enrollee will be present to POSSIBILITY.

The steps might not have do be done sequentially.

[b:7aca631180]FOR LANDMARK PEOPLE READING THIS[/b:7aca631180]
You might think this information is useful. But to gain the full understanding you will have to participate in more courses that will harm you. The way you GET this sales technique is by practising it on many persons that will possibly start to hate you. Read more on this message board about unwanted consequenses while applying this sales technique.
The pressure part of the whole enrollment process has been under discussion before. The sales went down when they tried to ease off on the pressure part. So don't even mention it to any leader. It will not have any effect at all. Landmark has been pressuring people to for decades. They simply don't care!.
----< sorry - I was wrong - they redesigned after I left. Evidently they did GET that the pressure was a problem - see later replies to this post.

Don't fall for the talk that this has nothing to do with EST and WERNER ERHARD. Things haven't changed much since the early days (the 1970ies). Forum is harmful to people - even the ones that like it. They will just not realize that some symptom that arises years after the forum might have something to do with post traumatic stress due to the influence of the very powerful mind control techniques used on them by landmark.

[b:7aca631180]FOR MYSELF[/b:7aca631180]
I think this enrollment technique is useful if you use it with discretion (without selling the forum of course!). How do I know if there is mind control involved in it or not. That is the trickiest part. Where in the process am I using mind control to gain the upper hand. What if I see that there are more steps than the 4 that are not revealed to me? There is one thing with the creating the relationship. You will mimic the enrollee. The posture. Try to find common ground. That must be mind control stuff. Hmmmm.
Bottom line must be - never use it to influence people for your own gain if you are not absolutely sure there is no harm to myself or the other person.

You need to read all I have written in this post to get the sequence of things....

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: January 18, 2006 03:44PM

Enrollment went through a change in landmark in late 1999 and 2000. They told us all that it was because they had "collapsed" two distinctions one being registration and one being enrollement.

Enrollment conversations were retaught, now we were to share our possibilities so that people were moved and inspired to act (sorry the wording is not exactly landmarks).

Then the person would want to register.

Its really just a high powered more manipulative and more hidden. the enrollee wouldn't know they were being sold something supposedly, It was also supposed to stop the Pressure conversations.

What I can't get over is just how much training introduction leaders and the "plants" in introductions had to share. As a staff member we attended several regional staff conferences where we had to practice our shares and we were coached until our shares moved touched and inspired others. In other words, our shares were polished and fake

So for example you would start by saying "prior to the forum I ...... you would share how it impacted you... this was the bad stuff ... then you would share what you saw in the forum, what the possibility you created was and then poof the person was enrolled and wanted what you had so you could register them.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 18, 2006 08:47PM

Enrollment went through a change in landmark in late 1999 and 2000. They told us all that it was because they had "collapsed" two distinctions one being registration and one being enrollement.

Ok - I wasn't aware of that. I guess, as you say, that it becomes more hidden. The TOUCHED, MOVED AND INSPIRED really sounds like a catch phrase.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: January 18, 2006 08:57PM

When I did the Forum in 12/01, after a few hours of hearing the word enrollment, someone stood up to express her anger at being asked to sell the forum. The leader asked her if she really believed that's what she was being asked to do - implying she, and everyone else, had misunderstood. You could feel the sense of confusion in the room. Here they were telling us about enrolling all our friends, knowing everyone was thinking they were being asked to sell LE, but then they did an about face and said we all misunderstood, and then their definition of enrolling (touch, move and inspire others by your transformation) was introduced.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 18, 2006 11:49PM

[b:d009b150dc]SHARING YOURSELF[/b:d009b150dc]
This is very central in the ENROLLMENT process or whatever they call it these days. But is SHARING good? I struggle with this since the way we did it in landmark can be offending to some people. Normal operation in our world is not that people SHARE THEMSELVES all the time. In landmark world it brings people together and ties them to each other. It's ok to share. Then when you do the same in the normal world people sometimes look at you like your some crazy person. That's why landmark trains introduction leaders in sharing so it becomes "good" shares. The format for en enrolling share was; (if I remember correctly)
- no more than 2 minutes. It's too hard for the listener to concentrate longer than that. You will have to be very good at sharing to keep people's attention longer than 2 minutes- they said. (I'm not sure that's the truth actually)
- it should have a beginning and an end.
- it should be crystal clear what message you wanted to put forward

[b:d009b150dc]MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS[/b:d009b150dc]
Yes it is good to have an open atmosphere where people can talk about what is going on in their lives. When it becomes something you do because your told it's good - it stinks. Every person should decide their own way of relating to other people. Definitely not landmark.

I hope you're TOUCHED MOVED AND INSPIRED by my posts! :D

NB! there wasn't any share that shouldn't contain a CONVERSATION FOR POSSIBILITY afterwards. Someting like "oh - I did this course and now my life is so wonderful - do you wanna come to an introduction - I would love for you to come - just come and see for yourself"
I guess that would have been TOUCHED MOVED AND INSPIRED but in a more open way. Now the CONVERSATION FOR POSSIBILITY remains hidden by making the SHARING even more stressful and taxing on you.
When they used the 4 step model you could at least come out and be straight about that you shared because you wanted them to do the forum.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: Ether Dragon ()
Date: January 19, 2006 02:30AM

As I said, I've been forwarding your posts on to my wife. She's read them all and seems genuinely interested.

She has a question for you though, Nettie. She wants to know, "can you ask nettie why she quit – what happened to her? “It’s harmful for me” – does not explain how it’s harmful … please ? Thanks."

I don't want to interupt your writing process, and if you're not ready to "share" yet, I understand.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 19, 2006 06:21AM

[b:a2317feae0]BEING ANGRY[/b:a2317feae0]

After quitting landmark I was first of all very angry. Angry that I had been subjected to mind control. When getting access to the internet I found all the negative information about landmark. It came as a shock - especially the testimonies about psychological problems.

What made me quit was that I saw that the whole thing landmark was based on was - the first initial high (induced by mind control) and then a lot of work and courses. Manual work for landmark and also constant work to try to think the way you were supposed to. During and after the forum when you GET IT it becomes automatic for a while - you hear the forum leaders voice in your head and you find solutions to all problems by "living" the ideas. At least that's what you believe during the initial high.
The solutions may not even be solutions - they might just be a very temporary solution. Even when they seems to be a big breakthrough.

[b:a2317feae0]THE RESULTS -GOOD OR BAD?[/b:a2317feae0]

I will not deny that some of the results that people have during the course can be useful and life changing. The problem is that as you go along, the landmark thinking starts to create new problems for you - problems that you didn't have before the forum. One problem that is created for you is the pressure on you to bring in new recruits. Did you have that problem before the course? Of course not. Suddeny you are a salesman for landmark - and you don't get paid. But the forum leader indoctrinates you to think that the good results will not stay if you don't bring in more people. After all - your world is created by YOUR WORD. If you don't bring in people you are a stingy person and stinginess is one of the reasons why the world doesn't work.

If you continue to take courses more and more problems will be created for you. You may divorce your spouse ( without thinking about the consequenses ) to marry someone from the course that shares the same ideas as you. You may regret this later or you may not. But your whole life is up for evalution and people do big changes as ordinary people change underware - without really thinging about it.
On the really serious side there are psychosis, bipolar diseases and suicide. Those are created by landmark for you - and they will say it was your choise to have those problems - don't blame landmark. It's your life.

[b:a2317feae0]GETTING HIGH[/b:a2317feae0]

The whole set up of the forum is harmful in itself. The straight rows of chairs and impeccability in the room makes you susceptible for infuence by mind control techniques. These mind control techniques (there are lots of them) casues stress to your mind that casues unwanted effects. The high is acually an unwanted effect. My forum leader said that it wouldn't last. I thought otherwise. I thought it would last forever now that I had seen the light. Coming down from the high was painful. Then I had already signed up for more courses and since the INTEGRITY and BEING YOUR WORD was implanted in me I thought that my life would deteriorate if I quit doing courses.

The most harmful thing is that you willingly give up your right to your thoughts. It is very hard to regain your thoughts. Especially since your thoughts may have been proven to cause all your problems.

[b:a2317feae0]ABOUT THE "HIGH"[/b:a2317feae0]
After the high has evaporated you have a hard time remembering what you learned - so you need more training. So you have become hooked on landmark. That is what they want. The results from the first course is the carrot. The carrot tastes good for a while but then you start to find that the carrot was rotten on the inside. People continue eating the rotten carrot and says "good carrot" - "I know it is rotten but I chose to eat it because it will solve all my problems and maybe even the problems of all mankind...."


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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 19, 2006 02:00PM

[b:1e4d91b508]A VOLUNTEER[/b:1e4d91b508]

What is a volunteer? Someone who is willing to work for free for a cause. Landmark offices around the world is filled with those volunteers. What they really are is unpaid workers doing the work for landmark. Work that should in any normal business be generating an income. We're talking money. Not an income in BREAKTHROUGHS.

The reason for why landmark uses volunteers is simply because they know how to manipulate people into thinking that this is for their own good.

[b:1e4d91b508]A SEQUENCE OF EVENTS[/b:1e4d91b508]

- Center manager approaches you and says he has a wonderful opportunity for you. He really sees you as a leader and would like to ask you if you are interested in a CONVERSATION FOR POSSIBILITY. You might feel flattered that the center mangager thinks so highly of you. So you say yes.

- center manager ask you what's important in your life. What's the next step? In a lot of cases you feel that you want to do work for landmark so the center manager is already half way.

- the task is to become team leader for a team of COMMUNICATORS.

- the center manager asks you what private project you would like to investigate as you take this team lead function on. You find something like "get a raise" or anything that would be thought by you to be a personal result. The center manager really don't care about anything else than filling the position. But his manual tells him that this should be part of the setup. Maybe sometime, somewhere a center manager really cared about you - I doubt it...His whole life is centered around landmark so he or she might even resent you having a good life outside landmark.

- the center managers makes a PROMISE that he will support you both in your private project and your function as a team leader

- you say yes, I want to do this. You see this as an opportunity to start doing some real good in the world. You are now a team leader for a company that has the "technology" to bring peace to the world (or any other implanted thought that they feed you)

- now you have given your word. To be in INTEGRITY you have to do the job.

- now center manager tells you it is your job to find the persons for your team.

- you do the same steps as the center manager did on you (above). You have to talk to maybe 25 people to get a team of 5. This of course is time consuming and you spend all your evenings at the landmark office trying to fill your team

- you complain to the center manager that you don't feel good. You are tired all the time and your private project is just failing because you have no time to engage in that. You might even get fired from your job because you are coming in late, you are not focused on your job, you worry constantly how to fill the team.

- after COACHING from the center manager you suddenly feel energized again. Oh, now I see, I really need more distinctions in ENROLLMENT. So the center manager promises to help you. You make a renewed promise to stay on as team leader. You have 3 persons and need 2 more. Let's not quit.

- center manager helps you. He enrolls 1 person and then there is 1 to go. Since you are at the end of a very tedious task you feel good and you suddenly get a BREAKTHROUGH in AUTHENTICITY. You enroll the next person into your team by relating how "I see now that I struggled with this because I am such a jerk. I really don't tell people WHAT THERE IS TO SAY (distinction from one of the communication courses). You have become more entangled in the net.

- Now this new distinction that the center manager may have coached you in makes you sign up for the communication course. Since that distinction MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE in your life.

- you spend more and more time at the landmark office doing the work as team lead. You are coached every day by the center manager.

- more and more tasks are suddenly revealed. An example; when the forum starts at friday morning there is a binder with all the forms that the participants have filled in before the course. You get a call at work from the center manager who MAKES A REQUEST that you get your ass into the office right now. All the forms have to be cleaned up from little markings in the margin. Markings from the forum leader and other people. It might read "not a breakthrough result - call participant up and create one."

- you leave work very pissed. Why should I do this? Shouldn't the forum leader or the center manager do this? You do the task and think for yourself - "this was the last time I took on a leadership role"

- your job as team leader is finally finished. The center manager calls you up at work saying that he wants to make your team lead project COMPLETE. You SAY EVERYTHING THERE IS TO SAY. You tell the center manager that your p-d off about the enormity of the task and that you have had no time for your own project. The center managers RECREATES you - you feel listened to. Your are COMPLETE. You start to think of this a a very tough exerience but you have proven yourself as BEING YOUR WORD. Your life works - it seems.

- next day your boss at work calls you to a meeting. He says he is really concerned about how bad you have performed at work lately. You RECREATE him using the new techniques you have just learned. The boss feels COMPLETE after you tell him some bogus story about doing important work for an organisation called landmark. You invite your boss. Your boss start doing courses and get hooked. The whole workplace is TRANSFORMED. Landmark has hooked into normal business. That business may have better results after the whole workforce has taken the training in landmark. The whole workforce works their ass off to make more money. Some people get burnt out. That is of course their problem. No one has asked them to CREATE a burnout/breakdown for themselves. They were simply NOT RESPONSIBLE for their WELLBEING. There is now a buffer zone between landmark and the workers of the company. If any harm should come to the workers of the company landmark will say that the boss applied landmark to his company totally wrong. Possibly even without consent. Maybe they will even sue him for creating bad press for landmark and using the "copyrighted" "technology". "Oooh, little us - we are just an eductional company - we didn't do anything - we are just dedicated to people - don't talk to us about other peoples problems - it's their problem"
Can you see the childlike thinking? [b:1e4d91b508][/b:1e4d91b508]

[b:1e4d91b508]CIRCULAR THINKING[/b:1e4d91b508]

- you make a promise. You regret that promise. You cannot back down because then you are OUT OF INTEGRITY. You are not YOUR WORD. You talk to the center manager who is constantly struggling with a situation far worse than yours. The center manager asks you who made the decision to take on the project. You say - I did. So who is to blame? Yourself. Landmark cannot be blamed. That would be a RACKET. You understand that RACKETS are BAD and you don't want those bad RACKETS. You don't want anything bad. You want to have AN EXTRAORDINARY LIFE. You want to live YOUR POSSIBILITY. You want to be a forum leader. They seem happy. You want more training. "Maybe then I will be happy". You make a new promise. More training... Yeah!

You are in a state of self hypnosis or self suggestion. You are going blank. No more bad feelings..... zzzzzzzzzz. You are in landmark coma....
You just need some sleep and everything will turn out ok...Let's just not take on any big projects at landmark. Let's have relaxing ones....Let's enroll more people that I can have as supporters...they can do the hard work - I will coach them - I am a good person.... oh what a wonderful life.....zzzzzzzzz.......

BLIP! Who haven't I tried to enroll? Where is the nearest phone? I must get my act together....Oh, I have been running these bad rackets....Oooh bad bad bad......


[b:1e4d91b508]FOR LANDMARK PEOPLE[/b:1e4d91b508]

This is a made up story - it has nothing to do with real life or any real characters. It's NOTHING. I gave you NOTHING. Should you decide to wake up from the hypnosis there is help. Use your ALREADY ALWAYS LISTENING and start to listen to it. That voice is you. It is your connection to who you are. You may not like who you are. But ask yourself - do you like WHO YOU ARE BEING right now? WHO YOU ARE BEING right now may not be yourself. You may be what I call a landmark robot. Don't take it as an offence - I've been there myself and I liked being a landmark robot. It was an easy way of living. Landmark technology might seem complex and very intricate. In reality it is very simplistic. It's black or white. It's totally devoid of any intelligence. It's just a set of simple ideas. Put together in a soup of mind control, abuse, seemingly good results and the promise of A WORLD THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY. That was Werner Erhards goal with his work (we are told). If the forum would work - why has he been on the run from scientology for god knows how long? Why is he in hiding? Where is he? Does he collect dividends?

The deeper you get into landmark the less your world works. There is no way of determining when to stop and if it's ok to take one course or maybe two or maybe the whole curriculum.

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: sonnie_dee ()
Date: January 19, 2006 03:00PM

Nettie your writing is very well done and on the mark, reading it brought back many memories. Particularly as I started volunteering then did ILP and then went on staff.

The highs and lows are so connected and keep you connected to landmark. YOu go on a course, get coaching or what ever and you are on a high, you achieve "the miraculous", then things stop going so well... you fall back to earth which in sted of looking normal looks horendous so you get coaching and you get back on a high. This is extreemly addictive.

I am often ashamed at the manipulating I did on staff. the times I used the lines like "you are not being your word" and lets look at your Integrity.


The leader asked her if she really believed that's what she was being asked to do - implying she, and everyone else, had misunderstood. You could feel the sense of confusion in the room. Here they were telling us about enrolling all our friends, knowing everyone was thinking they were being asked to sell LE, but then they did an about face and said we all misunderstood, and then their definition of enrolling (touch, move and inspire others by your transformation) was introduced.

Hope this is very much a deliberate move so that they can say they are not encouraging people to register their friends, its a very covert way of getting the same results and in fact I understand it did alot better because people didn't think they were being pressured even though they were

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Getting back my life and thoughts after LGAT/ Landmark
Posted by: nettie ()
Date: January 19, 2006 04:01PM

[b:17fed42765]GOOD AND BAD RESULTS[/b:17fed42765]

Do I need to point out that;

- all good results will be thanks to your new landmark thinking.
- all bad results are casued by your faulty machinery. Not by landmark thinking.

They make you believe that. It's in the circular thinking where you are always at the end. You take the consequences for everything. Landmark takes the consequenses for nothing bad. They throw you out on the street if something goes really bad for you. They send you home and try to forget about you. Hopefully you will be so intimidated and scared that you don't dare speaking about it. You may end up taking medication for psychosis and who will listen to a psychotic?

It get's scarier the more you think about it....

Added this January 26th:
This guy obviously had a "breakthrough". Of course it is nice to have world peace - but does saying that you are a stand for world peace make any real difference? Not one bit. It is just pure landmark lingo gone bonkers. Real action would make a difference - not standing in front of people declaring your commitment. Of course the guy means to do good but the reality is that the world is not CREATED BY YOUR WORD. Sorry.

He did of course get some credit from landmark. But what is the way he is portrayed in the world? Maybe a bit off the wall...

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