pragmatist,

No, I have not done LE nor any other LGAT.

You have no obligation to answer my question about whether you understand why your previous post was perceived as heartless and uncaring, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts if you are so inclined.

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question lady
pragmatist,

I am wondering if you understand why your previous post was perceived as heartless and uncaring.

Did Landmark teach you anything about empathy?

"Empathy," or more specifically "sympathy*," is a dirty word (concept) at Landmark and all the other copy-cats that use the "No Victims" thingie. Werner Erhard used to spit it out: "Sympathy is for life's victims" and since "There are no victims," there is/was no use for the silly emotion or expression which is considered a sign of weakness instead of the one singularly humane response.


Ellen


*They do make some sort of distinction between the two, but it's some cultic or sales "distinction" concerning the ability to sense some other person's psychological state so as to be able to sell them or manipulate them in some way.

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question lady
pragmatist,

I am wondering if you understand why your previous post was perceived as heartless and uncaring.

Did Landmark teach you anything about empathy?

I remember a seminar where we talked about empathy. Empathy and compassion are forbidden in the technology, because they reinforce the 'stories' of the people. In the AC we did an excercise were we listen to other people's personal problems as they were just silly songs. They told us not to show any form of understanding or compassion or support or anything. It was supposed to 'make the story disappear', to make people realize it's all made up. Now i see you actually stop talking because you just give up hope for understanding. Lekkies are heartless and they don't even hope in someone else's hearts. They only coach each other. The best you can get is 'i got it', followed by victim-bashing like pragmatic's:

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Does Landmark push personal responsibility (including 'creating your own experience/reality') to the max? Yes. They do. If they were not doing that, then they'd be depriving you of the value they provide - which is making people aware of the impact of their words and actions.

Pragmatic's, it is a feature of mind control to make the adept feel guilty of just about everything. It's called demand for purity. You push personal responsability beyond the max and the humanly acceptable. It is designed so that if anything happens, it's the adept's fault. That creates a guilt that trap people inside.

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In Landmark terms, or any terms whatsoever, "NO" means NO. If you had chosen to stop your participation when you felt pressured, then why did you not?

You may or may not realize that nettie is outside LE and yet you landmarkians STILL bully her. Imagine what it to express doubt inside.

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If you want to hold Landmark Education responsible for the person who committed suicide, there are proper venues in the USA or the UK to address you complaint

If all the people who could sue landmark could afford the legal expenses to reach the end of the trials and appeals, LE would be closed by now.

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As far as my mental health, I never had any issues with it

Well, you made yourself the judge and the forum the jury on that one....

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Did it make me feel nervous afterwards? Yes. Did it make me doubt myself? Yes. Did I think for a while my life was empty and meaningless? Yes... But that's the whole point of the Forum+AC - to get you to THINK about these things. Life does not stop after the Forum - it carries on. You get to choose whether you will ignore the tools you got or not

So, you choose to ignore landmark or not. Could anyone of you ever give any credit whatsoever to the non-landmarkians? It's always black and white, us vs them, the landmarkians and those who 'ignore' it. Heaven forbid people had other ways to live their lives!
:roll:

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I don't know how you want to handle your issue with whom is to blame for the guy's suicide - but telling everyone here about it, isn't going to make it go away.

Landmark is to blame. the mind control that landmark uses is to blame. the people at the top who know they're using mind control, they are to blame. And pragmatic, let me tell you something: you can use all the mumbo-jumbo you want, you can create whatever you want to create in your language, you can say whatever you want, you can use all the technology you know to stop the 'story', you can do all that, LANDMARK IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT DEATH AND ALL THE OTHERS AND ALL THE SUFFERING OF THEIR MEMBERS AND NOTHING IS GOING TO MAKE IT GO AWAY. LANDMARK IS GUILTY AND NO HOCUS POCUS WILL MAKE IT GET AWAY WITH IT. you 'got it'?
Now you cannot see my face but i am furious. I am fed up of you weirdos blaming the people you already treated like s*** before. I am fed up with your self-righteousness. And by the way, WE DO NOT CHOOSE TO REMAIN IN A WORLD OF HURT: LANDMARK HURT US SO MUCH IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME TO HEAL. WE DO NOT CHOOSE HURT. LANDMARK INFLICTS THAT ON THE PEOPLE

pragmatist:

Please try to understand that people don't have to drive drunk, smoke ciggarettes or engage in other risky or potentially unsafe activities to know that it's a bad idea.

Experience is not the only source of knowledge, though LGATs seem to use this repeatedly when they pitch their various programs.

There is such a thing as historical evidence, research and past consumer complaints to consider.

Landmark has a deeply troubled history that anyone considering its programs should consider carefully before paying for one of its courses.

And there are so many viable alternatives for practical people to consider rather than paying Landmark. There is professional counseling, local support groups, continuting education at a community college or nearby university, just to name a few.

Why bother with Landmark?

And credible institutions, programs and licensed helping professionals won't ask clients/participants to sign away their right to a trial by jury regarding potential personal injuries, which Landmark insists its customers must do first before receiving training.

Thanks for filling me in elena and maurice. That's really heavy.

My husband is in "The Release Technique" and they have taught him that all "negative" feelings are "garbage".

I take it that LE does not distinguish between "victim" as a mind set or identity and "victim" as the receipient of a harmful event?

I guess pragmatist cannot connect with anyone else's pain because, at this time, he can't connect with his own.

It's okay to feel pain pragmatist. It's part of being human.

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rrmoderator
And credible institutions, programs and licensed helping professionals won't ask clients/participants to sign away their right to a trial by jury regarding potential personal injuries, which Landmark insists its customers must do first before receiving training.

Mr. Ross,

If you know, I am curious whether one of these waivers has ever been challenged. If so, did it hold up?

It seems a lawyer challenged the waiver in the state of Washington.

Apparently an out of court settlement was reached.

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Question Lady, RR and ON 2 LF, have all of you done the Landmark Forum or not? Nettie actually knows that Landmark is about people making a difference in their own and other people's lives, because she's been through it. If you did it - why is it that you came away with these interpretations?

pragmatist,
Firstly, the question you ask is one of landmarks most effective thought stopping devices for those of you who have been subjected to a lekkie forum. Even as you ask the question about who has or hasn't taken a forum you are automatically responding to your lekkie programming.

I have never smoked crack, shot heroin, taken crystal meth in any form and the reason I have never attempted any of the above is because I have witnessed what these drugs do to people's minds, lives and personalities.

I have NEVER taken a lekkie forum for exactly the same reasons. I have witnessed the damage a landmark forum causes in a person's life, personality, career, relationships and the list goes on and on! No, no, no I have not taken a landmark forum and NO I would not waste a dime on a forum anymore than I would on an ounce of heroin or crystal meth.
Understand that concept and you will have escaped the clutches of at least one lekkie thought stopping technique!

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pragmatist
... with me, it was my own arrogance and ego which had me readily fail at relationships with numerous women as well as other people (at work or in life). I chose to listen to their message, and put it to use in my own personal life.
... but telling everyone here about it, isn't going to make it go away. You know this better than I do, especially if you've been through the forum.

Have you really dealt with your arrogance? Your singlemindedness? Your ego? Have you really learnt to listen? Do you really care about other people?

There is nothing wrong with sharing your troubles/concerns/pain/hurt. I really think YOU know better than this ... it just seems you've washed up against the grate in the drain and you think you've found salvation. Time will reveal that it's just a damn grate and not the holy grail!

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maurice

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Did it make me feel nervous afterwards? Yes. Did it make me doubt myself? Yes. Did I think for a while my life was empty and meaningless? Yes... But that's the whole point of the Forum+AC - to get you to THINK about these things. Life does not stop after the Forum - it carries on. You get to choose whether you will ignore the tools you got or not

So, you choose to ignore landmark or not. Could anyone of you ever give any credit whatsoever to the non-landmarkians? It's always black and white, us vs them, the landmarkians and those who 'ignore' it. Heaven forbid people had other ways to live their lives!
:roll:

All the talk about CHOICE in an lgat is such a smokescreen (it sounds good and you get to think you're retaining your automony all the while you're being programmed to think/"choose" in the exact same way as every other person in the room. It is my opinion, and I was entangled in an lgat for six years, that an indoctrinated person really can't make a true choice (they can't even think straight).