Mankind project
Posted by:
CampMuir
()
Date: January 18, 2007 01:49AM
Quote
help_us
It seems that the ability of MKP to meet the 21 Criteria for Thought Reform has been called into question, so I would like to present a breakdown of how MKP meets each point. ...
Very good summation of each of the 21 criteria. In reading thru them, I was looking for a criteria that around screening an individual. I find this area very interesting at this time since MKP failed me on several occasions around the screen prior to the NWTA and during the NWTA.
I am an epileptic and my seizures can be triggered thru a combination of lack of sleep and heavy emotional & physical strain. I had put this medical condition on my application and it was not reviewed with me prior to the weekend.
When I got to the weekend, my anti-seizure meds were confiscated along all my other possessions. I had to repeatedly ask for my meds the first night I was there. When they brought them too me, they appeared angry with me that I needed them. They then gave me my meds for the rest of the weekend.
This is most interesting from my perspective as to the fact that;
1. They did not address my medical record with me prior to the weekend.
2. I had to repeatedly ask for my meds and was received with angry when I finally got them. I am curious what they were thinking? Did they think I shouldn't need them since I was on a tough man's weekend? Did getting my meds selfishly interfere with their weekends routine? I truely doubt MKP would want an individual having a seizure on their weekend trainings.
I know some MKP folk will try to defend my experience saying it always doesn't happen, but folks this is scary because if they can not even meet my medical needs then they should not be holding folks captive.
Cheers,
M
Mankind project
Posted by:
ginah
()
Date: January 19, 2007 06:05AM
Here is the article I mentioned in my previous post. Written my Mark Roggeman
Notice when you read this how Mr. Roggeman finally points out to all of us how these LGATs all have a common background and are really "interconnected".
Note, the Banquet that is given for these men on the last day was food brought in by the recruits and refrigerated until the last day. MKP did not supply the food for the banquet (maybe some). My husband made himself (not bought) and took to NWTA, which was taken from him on the first day. Men who did not bring an item that they cooked were "to be held accountable for their actions". ???
The whole premise is based on man regaining his power that was lost and finding his masculinity. Some men, after being involved with MKP for some time, understandably developed an attitude against their mothers and wives. They blamed them for being the cause of not reaching their full potential as men.
The Vanishing Manly Man
Over the last 30 years or so, there seems to be an increasing concern that men have forgotten, or more to the point, not had role models to demonstrate manhood. To solve this “crisis” both inside and outside the church, books have been written and groups have arisen to guide and train men in being manly. One such group is the Mankind Project (MKP) which is an international men’s network of interdependent centers with members in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and other countries. The primary instructional tool of this organization is called the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA)—a weekend retreat where the supposed goal is to empower men to regain their masculinity. In 1985, Rich Tosi, Bill Kauth, and Ron Hering came together, whose collective backgrounds and influences contributed to the creation of the Mankind Project. Tosi’s background was in the United States Marines as a captain who served in Vietnam. He brought a military influence to the MKP training. Kauth, who has a Master’s Degree in Psychology and was a self-styled feminist, is the author of A Circle of Men: The Original Manual for Men’s Support Groups—the training manual for men’s support groups. Hering’s contribution was his ability to instruct others to become effective leaders. He had a doctorate in education and was a teacher, seminar leader, and professional coach. The New Warrior Training Adventure weekend is the compilation of several other human-potential seminars spanning four decades. Kauth attended a seminar called Understanding Yourself and Others (UYO), where he met Tosi who was one of the facilitators. UYO was started by David Durovy and his wife, Patricia. Durovy became an initiate of the first New Warrior Training Adventure. Kauth, Tosi, and Hering attended a workshop called Men, Sex, and Power in California offered by Justin Sterling. These weekends are currently called Sterling Seminars. The techniques learned there are a major part of the NWTA. Sterling was an early disciple of Werner Erhard who founded what was then known as Erhard Seminars Training (EST). Today, EST has transformed itself into the Landmark Forum. Men, Sex, and Power (Sterling Seminars) was the outgrowth of Sterling’s training with EST. Kauth’s experience with Gestalt psychology was added to the NWTA.
Training the Trainers
MKP history comes through a long line of Human-Potential Movements that began in the 1960’s. It started with Mind Dynamics by Alexander Everett who arrived in America in 1962 from England and lived in Missouri for a year and then moved to Forth Worth, Texas where he helped establish a private boarding school. Everett’s Mind Dynamics was influenced through his involvement with Unity Ministry in England, Edgar Casey’s work, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, Egyptology, and Silva Mind Control. William Penn Patrick was a student of Everett. He used both Mind Dynamics and the Silva Mind Control Method in his pyramid sales organization called Holiday Magic. He also started another organization called Leadership Dynamics which proved to be detrimental to people. The information on this is detailed in a book called The Pit: A Group Encounter Defiled by Gene Church. According to Church, the hard-hitting, confrontational group encounters went out of control. As a result, lawsuits were filed which caused both organizations to shut down. Many of the instructors from these two groups went on to found their own organizations using many of the same behavior modification techniques. The goals were to bring people to their highest potential and to overcome their fears. Their method was to break them down by screaming insults at them in order to have them face their fears. The theory behind this abusiveness was that, in order to change one’s behavior, one must be brought down to zero in order to build them up again. The following list of instructors from Mind Dynamics illustrates the flow of how these groups began and the direct influence each had on the other. Bob White, Randy Revell, Charlene Afremow, John Hanley founded Lifespring in 1974. Werner Erhard founded EST in 1971 which evolved into The Forum. Bob White left Lifespring, went to Japan, and started a training organization there called Life Dynamics. Randy Revell left Lifespring and founded the Context Trainings. Charlene Afremow joined Erhard’s organization as a trainer. She later left in a dispute and is now back at Lifespring. Howard Nease founded Personal Dynamics. Jim Quinn founded Lifestream. Thomas Willhite founded PSI World Seminars. Stewart Emery
worked for EST and later founded Actualizations. William Penn Patrick’s training organization recovered and is known today as Leadership Dynamics.6 Justin Sterling was an early disciple of Werner Erhard who started the weekend conference (Men, Sex, and Power) today known as Sterling Seminars.
Embracing The New Age
Another major influence for the New Warrior Training Adventure for MKP is Robert Bly’s writings and his influence on the men’s movement. On the back cover of the training manual for leaders on the NWTA called The Circle of Men, Kauth credits Bly’s influence. It states that the “wild man weekends” are inspired by the mythopoetic writings and personal testimonies of Robert Bly, Sam Keen and John Lee. It goes on to say that they followed Bly’s practical advice he gave to gatherings of men to form small groups. Bly is quoted extensively in their writings. Bly has attended several of the weekends and continues to support MKP. Much of the Native American Indian Spiritualism and rituals performed at the NWTA weekends comes directly from Bly and the works of Carl G. Jung. Several books written by Bly are also used: Iron John, Little Book on the Human Shadow, and The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart Poems for Men. Some men are introduced to the weekend through informational classes that were held at Christian churches. In most cases, the church rented out their facility and were likely not aware of what this group is about. Inquiries from spouses and families came in due to personality changes that occurred in the men after they became involved with MKP. In April 2003, three separate interviews were conducted with men who were participants a NWTA weekend and then spent time in MKP attending the small groups. One of these men was a facilitator and assisted at several weekend trainings. All these men requested that their names not be mentioned, as every man must sign an agreement stating that nothing can be said about what goes on. (This should be a giant red flag.) The current price for the NWTA weekend is $650.00 with a $100.00 deposit in advance. In Colorado and around the country, these trainings take place in the mountains at various retreat places.
Introduction To Warrior Work
The Mankind Project A non-profit organization and network of independent centers working together to heal the world one man at a time.
Mission We empower men to missions to service. Identity Statement
We are an order of men called to reclaim the sacred masculine for our time; through initiation, training, and action in the world. Core Organizing and Guiding Principle We empower the evolution of consciousness in each man in our culture. Principles of Our Order
1. I create my own perception of reality.
2. My outer reality exists as a reflection of my inner world.
3. Higher states of consciousness exist and reflect greater abilities to manifest my inner reality.
4. Higher states of consciousness embody a life of service, compassion, and unconditional love.
5. My work towards higher consciousness starts within.
6. My inner work begins with awareness of feelings which become the doorway for discovering and owning my shadows and wounds.
7. Healing of my wounds comes from releasing my judgments and forgiving from my heart.
8. My personal life mission becomes my guiding force that transcends my wounds and moves me beyond healing into joyous service.
9. I take personal responsibility and am accountable for living in integrity with my mission.
Principles Poetically Put
We empower men to manifest their potential fully and joyfully, trusting that they will create the healthy solutions needed by our society and planet.
A Typical Men’s Weekend
Upon arrival on Friday evening, each man is SMUDGED with burned incense that is placed on sage sticks. This is an American Indian ritual that is done to cleanse and keep the evil sprits away. It is claimed this ritual washes away the cares and negative energy of the day. As the men arrive, the facilitators greet them by shouting several times the question, “WHY ARE YOU HERE?” The facilitators look directly into their eyes and tell each man they have power you don’t even know about. All who were interviewed related that it seemed to be very similar to a recruit’s introduction to boot camp. The men arrive on Friday at different times due to their own schedules ranging from late afternoon until evening. While the men wait for the others to arrive, they are directed to sit in a dark room, told to be silent, and not to grin or laugh. Some of the men sat in this room for over two hours as they waited for all to arrive. Once everyone arrived, each man had to go through two stations. At the first station, they were asked in a loud voice, “Are you ready to change your life forever?” They were told that they had to give up all jewelry and electronic devices they brought with them. At the second station, each man was told that they were no longer to be called by their name. They were given a number and told they would be called that number throughout the weekend. They were then asked if they had given up all their jewelry and electronic devices at the first station. They were told, if they still had any of these things, to empty their pockets and place the items on the table. Several times men had electric razors in their possession; they were called liars and loudly ridiculed. The facilitators were yelling at them saying, “Can’t you understand?” There were times when the group leaders would let someone go past the first station purposely with jewelry and electronic devices and set them up to be humiliated at the second station. There was a one-to-one ratio of a group leaders and new participants. The new recruits to manhood had very little time alone. Very little food was provided the first two days except for snacks such as apples and nuts. On Sunday just before they left, a banquet was provided in honor of their graduation. The activities went well into the night which did not leave much time for sleep. On Saturday, there were classes centered on the philosophy of what it means to be a man and a warrior. They were told how men have been emasculated by society and by the women in their lives. It was explained that this was because many of our fathers abandoned us emotionally; the result is that men were raised by their mothers who also emasculated them. They said that women do not know how to raise a boy to be a man—that they should be taught and raised by men. The claim is that the real goal of a man is to be a warrior and, in many cases, their mothers and wives held them back from their full potential to be a man. The main objective, then, is to regain the power that was taken away from men. Women, it seems, are the ever-present enemy. They are encouraged in sessions to share about times they were shamed while growing up. These are wounds that were hidden and now need to be dealt with. At one session, a male phallic symbol was passed around signifying what it means to be a man; they were encouraged to talk about sexual experiences. Saturday afternoon, the “Trust Walk” takes place. This involves the men going on a walk in the nude wearing only shoes and a blindfold. This is to promote trust in the leaders in following someone blindly for about an hour. When they returned from the walk, many of the previous graduates of the NWTA showed up. The men, still naked, now were dancing to the sound of drums. The object of this is to get all your inhibitions out. They allege if you can do this, you can do anything and regain your lost power. Every man was given an Indian neck pouch along with an animal name that best described each man’s character. They were called by this animal name from this point on. Several times over the weekend, the men formed a circle and ritual invocations were repeated out loud welcoming the energy of the East, South, West, North, and Mother Earth. The purpose of the invocation, as defined in the Facilitators Guide Protocol Manual (The New Warrior Initiation Adventure), is to extend a ritual invitation for ancestral, archetypal energies to join with and strengthen the container (the man making the invocation). This ritual’s purpose is to bring men to a place where they can do “inner” work. To affectively do inner work requires a departure from the normal limits of our rational minds. To accomplish this, the participants invite the energies of those who passed on, their ancestors, their fathers, and grandfathers. They call on the energies of the masculine archetypes, the Lover, the Warrior, the Magician, and the King to ground them in the sacred masculine. They call on the seven energies represented by the seven directions of the medicine wheel. This is derived from the tradition of Native American Indians, which is believed to renew our experience with the ancient wisdom of the relatedness of all beings, the unity of all things.
Test All Things
It is plain to see that this is not a movement a Christian man should be involved in. Mankind Project does not present itself as Christian, but it does insist that men from all faiths can benefit from the training. The whole premise is based on man regaining his power that was lost and finding his masculinity. Some men, after being involved with MKP for some time, understandably developed an attitude against their mothers and wives. They blamed them for being the cause of not reaching their full potential as men.
Notice when you read this how Mr. Roggeman finally points out to all of us how these LGATs all have a common background and are really "interconnected".
Note, the Banquet that is given for these men on the last day was food brought in by the recruits and refrigerated until the last day. MKP did not supply the food for the banquet (maybe some). My husband made himself (not bought) and took to NWTA, which was taken from him on the first day. Men who did not bring an item that they cooked were "to be held accountable for their actions". ???
The whole premise is based on man regaining his power that was lost and finding his masculinity. Some men, after being involved with MKP for some time, understandably developed an attitude against their mothers and wives. They blamed them for being the cause of not reaching their full potential as men.
The Vanishing Manly Man
Over the last 30 years or so, there seems to be an increasing concern that men have forgotten, or more to the point, not had role models to demonstrate manhood. To solve this “crisis” both inside and outside the church, books have been written and groups have arisen to guide and train men in being manly. One such group is the Mankind Project (MKP) which is an international men’s network of interdependent centers with members in the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and other countries. The primary instructional tool of this organization is called the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA)—a weekend retreat where the supposed goal is to empower men to regain their masculinity. In 1985, Rich Tosi, Bill Kauth, and Ron Hering came together, whose collective backgrounds and influences contributed to the creation of the Mankind Project. Tosi’s background was in the United States Marines as a captain who served in Vietnam. He brought a military influence to the MKP training. Kauth, who has a Master’s Degree in Psychology and was a self-styled feminist, is the author of A Circle of Men: The Original Manual for Men’s Support Groups—the training manual for men’s support groups. Hering’s contribution was his ability to instruct others to become effective leaders. He had a doctorate in education and was a teacher, seminar leader, and professional coach. The New Warrior Training Adventure weekend is the compilation of several other human-potential seminars spanning four decades. Kauth attended a seminar called Understanding Yourself and Others (UYO), where he met Tosi who was one of the facilitators. UYO was started by David Durovy and his wife, Patricia. Durovy became an initiate of the first New Warrior Training Adventure. Kauth, Tosi, and Hering attended a workshop called Men, Sex, and Power in California offered by Justin Sterling. These weekends are currently called Sterling Seminars. The techniques learned there are a major part of the NWTA. Sterling was an early disciple of Werner Erhard who founded what was then known as Erhard Seminars Training (EST). Today, EST has transformed itself into the Landmark Forum. Men, Sex, and Power (Sterling Seminars) was the outgrowth of Sterling’s training with EST. Kauth’s experience with Gestalt psychology was added to the NWTA.
Training the Trainers
MKP history comes through a long line of Human-Potential Movements that began in the 1960’s. It started with Mind Dynamics by Alexander Everett who arrived in America in 1962 from England and lived in Missouri for a year and then moved to Forth Worth, Texas where he helped establish a private boarding school. Everett’s Mind Dynamics was influenced through his involvement with Unity Ministry in England, Edgar Casey’s work, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, Egyptology, and Silva Mind Control. William Penn Patrick was a student of Everett. He used both Mind Dynamics and the Silva Mind Control Method in his pyramid sales organization called Holiday Magic. He also started another organization called Leadership Dynamics which proved to be detrimental to people. The information on this is detailed in a book called The Pit: A Group Encounter Defiled by Gene Church. According to Church, the hard-hitting, confrontational group encounters went out of control. As a result, lawsuits were filed which caused both organizations to shut down. Many of the instructors from these two groups went on to found their own organizations using many of the same behavior modification techniques. The goals were to bring people to their highest potential and to overcome their fears. Their method was to break them down by screaming insults at them in order to have them face their fears. The theory behind this abusiveness was that, in order to change one’s behavior, one must be brought down to zero in order to build them up again. The following list of instructors from Mind Dynamics illustrates the flow of how these groups began and the direct influence each had on the other. Bob White, Randy Revell, Charlene Afremow, John Hanley founded Lifespring in 1974. Werner Erhard founded EST in 1971 which evolved into The Forum. Bob White left Lifespring, went to Japan, and started a training organization there called Life Dynamics. Randy Revell left Lifespring and founded the Context Trainings. Charlene Afremow joined Erhard’s organization as a trainer. She later left in a dispute and is now back at Lifespring. Howard Nease founded Personal Dynamics. Jim Quinn founded Lifestream. Thomas Willhite founded PSI World Seminars. Stewart Emery
worked for EST and later founded Actualizations. William Penn Patrick’s training organization recovered and is known today as Leadership Dynamics.6 Justin Sterling was an early disciple of Werner Erhard who started the weekend conference (Men, Sex, and Power) today known as Sterling Seminars.
Embracing The New Age
Another major influence for the New Warrior Training Adventure for MKP is Robert Bly’s writings and his influence on the men’s movement. On the back cover of the training manual for leaders on the NWTA called The Circle of Men, Kauth credits Bly’s influence. It states that the “wild man weekends” are inspired by the mythopoetic writings and personal testimonies of Robert Bly, Sam Keen and John Lee. It goes on to say that they followed Bly’s practical advice he gave to gatherings of men to form small groups. Bly is quoted extensively in their writings. Bly has attended several of the weekends and continues to support MKP. Much of the Native American Indian Spiritualism and rituals performed at the NWTA weekends comes directly from Bly and the works of Carl G. Jung. Several books written by Bly are also used: Iron John, Little Book on the Human Shadow, and The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart Poems for Men. Some men are introduced to the weekend through informational classes that were held at Christian churches. In most cases, the church rented out their facility and were likely not aware of what this group is about. Inquiries from spouses and families came in due to personality changes that occurred in the men after they became involved with MKP. In April 2003, three separate interviews were conducted with men who were participants a NWTA weekend and then spent time in MKP attending the small groups. One of these men was a facilitator and assisted at several weekend trainings. All these men requested that their names not be mentioned, as every man must sign an agreement stating that nothing can be said about what goes on. (This should be a giant red flag.) The current price for the NWTA weekend is $650.00 with a $100.00 deposit in advance. In Colorado and around the country, these trainings take place in the mountains at various retreat places.
Introduction To Warrior Work
The Mankind Project A non-profit organization and network of independent centers working together to heal the world one man at a time.
Mission We empower men to missions to service. Identity Statement
We are an order of men called to reclaim the sacred masculine for our time; through initiation, training, and action in the world. Core Organizing and Guiding Principle We empower the evolution of consciousness in each man in our culture. Principles of Our Order
1. I create my own perception of reality.
2. My outer reality exists as a reflection of my inner world.
3. Higher states of consciousness exist and reflect greater abilities to manifest my inner reality.
4. Higher states of consciousness embody a life of service, compassion, and unconditional love.
5. My work towards higher consciousness starts within.
6. My inner work begins with awareness of feelings which become the doorway for discovering and owning my shadows and wounds.
7. Healing of my wounds comes from releasing my judgments and forgiving from my heart.
8. My personal life mission becomes my guiding force that transcends my wounds and moves me beyond healing into joyous service.
9. I take personal responsibility and am accountable for living in integrity with my mission.
Principles Poetically Put
We empower men to manifest their potential fully and joyfully, trusting that they will create the healthy solutions needed by our society and planet.
A Typical Men’s Weekend
Upon arrival on Friday evening, each man is SMUDGED with burned incense that is placed on sage sticks. This is an American Indian ritual that is done to cleanse and keep the evil sprits away. It is claimed this ritual washes away the cares and negative energy of the day. As the men arrive, the facilitators greet them by shouting several times the question, “WHY ARE YOU HERE?” The facilitators look directly into their eyes and tell each man they have power you don’t even know about. All who were interviewed related that it seemed to be very similar to a recruit’s introduction to boot camp. The men arrive on Friday at different times due to their own schedules ranging from late afternoon until evening. While the men wait for the others to arrive, they are directed to sit in a dark room, told to be silent, and not to grin or laugh. Some of the men sat in this room for over two hours as they waited for all to arrive. Once everyone arrived, each man had to go through two stations. At the first station, they were asked in a loud voice, “Are you ready to change your life forever?” They were told that they had to give up all jewelry and electronic devices they brought with them. At the second station, each man was told that they were no longer to be called by their name. They were given a number and told they would be called that number throughout the weekend. They were then asked if they had given up all their jewelry and electronic devices at the first station. They were told, if they still had any of these things, to empty their pockets and place the items on the table. Several times men had electric razors in their possession; they were called liars and loudly ridiculed. The facilitators were yelling at them saying, “Can’t you understand?” There were times when the group leaders would let someone go past the first station purposely with jewelry and electronic devices and set them up to be humiliated at the second station. There was a one-to-one ratio of a group leaders and new participants. The new recruits to manhood had very little time alone. Very little food was provided the first two days except for snacks such as apples and nuts. On Sunday just before they left, a banquet was provided in honor of their graduation. The activities went well into the night which did not leave much time for sleep. On Saturday, there were classes centered on the philosophy of what it means to be a man and a warrior. They were told how men have been emasculated by society and by the women in their lives. It was explained that this was because many of our fathers abandoned us emotionally; the result is that men were raised by their mothers who also emasculated them. They said that women do not know how to raise a boy to be a man—that they should be taught and raised by men. The claim is that the real goal of a man is to be a warrior and, in many cases, their mothers and wives held them back from their full potential to be a man. The main objective, then, is to regain the power that was taken away from men. Women, it seems, are the ever-present enemy. They are encouraged in sessions to share about times they were shamed while growing up. These are wounds that were hidden and now need to be dealt with. At one session, a male phallic symbol was passed around signifying what it means to be a man; they were encouraged to talk about sexual experiences. Saturday afternoon, the “Trust Walk” takes place. This involves the men going on a walk in the nude wearing only shoes and a blindfold. This is to promote trust in the leaders in following someone blindly for about an hour. When they returned from the walk, many of the previous graduates of the NWTA showed up. The men, still naked, now were dancing to the sound of drums. The object of this is to get all your inhibitions out. They allege if you can do this, you can do anything and regain your lost power. Every man was given an Indian neck pouch along with an animal name that best described each man’s character. They were called by this animal name from this point on. Several times over the weekend, the men formed a circle and ritual invocations were repeated out loud welcoming the energy of the East, South, West, North, and Mother Earth. The purpose of the invocation, as defined in the Facilitators Guide Protocol Manual (The New Warrior Initiation Adventure), is to extend a ritual invitation for ancestral, archetypal energies to join with and strengthen the container (the man making the invocation). This ritual’s purpose is to bring men to a place where they can do “inner” work. To affectively do inner work requires a departure from the normal limits of our rational minds. To accomplish this, the participants invite the energies of those who passed on, their ancestors, their fathers, and grandfathers. They call on the energies of the masculine archetypes, the Lover, the Warrior, the Magician, and the King to ground them in the sacred masculine. They call on the seven energies represented by the seven directions of the medicine wheel. This is derived from the tradition of Native American Indians, which is believed to renew our experience with the ancient wisdom of the relatedness of all beings, the unity of all things.
Test All Things
It is plain to see that this is not a movement a Christian man should be involved in. Mankind Project does not present itself as Christian, but it does insist that men from all faiths can benefit from the training. The whole premise is based on man regaining his power that was lost and finding his masculinity. Some men, after being involved with MKP for some time, understandably developed an attitude against their mothers and wives. They blamed them for being the cause of not reaching their full potential as men.
Mankind project
Posted by:
lp
()
Date: January 25, 2007 06:43PM
hi,
No organisation is above criticism, but to attack mkp left right and center like this is missing the target a bit - they are just a bunch of guys trying to improve.
lp.
No organisation is above criticism, but to attack mkp left right and center like this is missing the target a bit - they are just a bunch of guys trying to improve.
lp.
Mankind project
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: January 25, 2007 09:14PM
LP,
If the group is causing psychological damage to its trainees then it deserves all the criticism that it gets and more.
What's your basis for saying that its just a bunch of guys trying to improve? Have you read the excerpts from their manual? Their system is set up to manipulate their trainees and create compliance in the group of men through some questionable methods. Many men have had their lives seriously harmed by their involvement with MKP. How do you justify turning a blind eye to the injuries suffered by those men?
If the group is causing psychological damage to its trainees then it deserves all the criticism that it gets and more.
What's your basis for saying that its just a bunch of guys trying to improve? Have you read the excerpts from their manual? Their system is set up to manipulate their trainees and create compliance in the group of men through some questionable methods. Many men have had their lives seriously harmed by their involvement with MKP. How do you justify turning a blind eye to the injuries suffered by those men?
Mankind project
Posted by:
lp
()
Date: January 25, 2007 09:32PM
Hi formerimactgrad,
I notice you start with "if", so you arent sure ?
When you say manipulate, what do you think mkp are trying to get the guys to do that they would not otherwise do ?
What are the injuries suffered by many men ?
cheers.
I notice you start with "if", so you arent sure ?
When you say manipulate, what do you think mkp are trying to get the guys to do that they would not otherwise do ?
What are the injuries suffered by many men ?
cheers.
Mankind project
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 25, 2007 09:36PM
lp:
What are you here for?
It seems you have not taken the time to read this thread.
There are very specific details regarding what MKP does, how it has caused problems, etc.
Read the manual notes, research points, complaints, etc.
What are you here for?
It seems you have not taken the time to read this thread.
There are very specific details regarding what MKP does, how it has caused problems, etc.
Read the manual notes, research points, complaints, etc.
Mankind project
Posted by:
formerimpactgrad
()
Date: January 25, 2007 10:09PM
LP,
In answer to your question about "IF". I used that term to show a small amount of respect and regard for your position. It seems beyond any reasonable doubt that MKP "IS" causing serious psychological damage to many men.
What is MKP trying to get guys to do that they would not otherwise do? Read the thread. The bottom line is that their methods are designed to keep people enrolled and paying for "training". In addition, they are encouraged to enroll other guys. The business model is not terribly complicated.
What are the injuries? You can start by reading the thread. MKP is large enough that there are a number of former trainees listing grievances and injuries. A small amount of effort on your part would yield sufficient information.
In answer to your question about "IF". I used that term to show a small amount of respect and regard for your position. It seems beyond any reasonable doubt that MKP "IS" causing serious psychological damage to many men.
What is MKP trying to get guys to do that they would not otherwise do? Read the thread. The bottom line is that their methods are designed to keep people enrolled and paying for "training". In addition, they are encouraged to enroll other guys. The business model is not terribly complicated.
What are the injuries? You can start by reading the thread. MKP is large enough that there are a number of former trainees listing grievances and injuries. A small amount of effort on your part would yield sufficient information.
Mankind project
Posted by:
lp
()
Date: January 25, 2007 10:28PM
Is there anything you can't do in MKP unless you are a member ?
What is the format that membership takes. Do you get a membership card ?
What is the format that membership takes. Do you get a membership card ?
Mankind project
Posted by:
lp
()
Date: January 26, 2007 03:11AM
Hi,
Sorry I could not reply earlier.
I am in here for information and curiosity.
I have read large parts of this thread. I am not at all convinced about these serious injuries.
I have looked into the business model, in the uk at least - using my hacking and sleuthing skills. The annual income is about 100K sterling, with one full time employee, fees paid for those running the various trainings and sundry expenses such as for hiring rooms etcetera, tiny bit left over. That is peanuts. Conclusion: money isnt the bottom line.
Any real dirt ?
Sorry I could not reply earlier.
I am in here for information and curiosity.
I have read large parts of this thread. I am not at all convinced about these serious injuries.
I have looked into the business model, in the uk at least - using my hacking and sleuthing skills. The annual income is about 100K sterling, with one full time employee, fees paid for those running the various trainings and sundry expenses such as for hiring rooms etcetera, tiny bit left over. That is peanuts. Conclusion: money isnt the bottom line.
Any real dirt ?
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.