Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: September 19, 2008 02:30PM
Sara Thank you so much for all your postings looking back I really appreciate your heart for the truth and your love for the Lord.
That makes me ask the following questions
If Tony did not have the loop hole of “free will” in his back pocket, he would have been brought up on criminal charges long ago! Meaning people are free to believe what they believe. And if we, (the victims) willingly went along….believing that we were some how on the right path under Tony’s covering then he can walk away and never face his victims.
However the church is set up to have a governing body of Elders who are to handle the affairs of the church.
So how have they been doing?
How was John Shankenburg doing when he was at the RLc Sacramento?
Did he tolerate the false teachings?
How about Rollin Pang?
Has he ever questioned the teachings of Tony Cunningham?
How about Greg Huth?
Has he ever taken a concern or question given to him about the repercussions of Tonys teachings and discussed it among the elders?
And Maria?
How could she ever be objective? After all she lives with Tony....I believe there is the since of obligation there…that makes Tony off limits.
And Ron Retsmah?
How can he just sit there hearing the real testimonies of people who have been hurt at RLc yet remain silent?
And Ken Bollinger?
How can you hang out with the self righteous pompous Tony? Pretending that you have achieved a higher level of spirituality when you have daughters who have been spiritually abused at RLc and want nothing to do with Church
And Dan Flory?
How can you as an Elder look at how Tony took advantage of Elder Rick Watson operating the book store and be treated the way he was and not have any guilt or remorse?
How can you get up on Sunday morning and pretend everything is OK at Radiant Life?
I think I will stop there for now because I’m going to bed.
Oh!!!!!
P.S. Congratulations to Radiant Life of Laguna for breaking away from Tony Cunningham & his teachings!
Plus changing the name of your church to "Open Door"......WOW!!!!
That makes me ask the following questions
If Tony did not have the loop hole of “free will” in his back pocket, he would have been brought up on criminal charges long ago! Meaning people are free to believe what they believe. And if we, (the victims) willingly went along….believing that we were some how on the right path under Tony’s covering then he can walk away and never face his victims.
However the church is set up to have a governing body of Elders who are to handle the affairs of the church.
So how have they been doing?
How was John Shankenburg doing when he was at the RLc Sacramento?
Did he tolerate the false teachings?
How about Rollin Pang?
Has he ever questioned the teachings of Tony Cunningham?
How about Greg Huth?
Has he ever taken a concern or question given to him about the repercussions of Tonys teachings and discussed it among the elders?
And Maria?
How could she ever be objective? After all she lives with Tony....I believe there is the since of obligation there…that makes Tony off limits.
And Ron Retsmah?
How can he just sit there hearing the real testimonies of people who have been hurt at RLc yet remain silent?
And Ken Bollinger?
How can you hang out with the self righteous pompous Tony? Pretending that you have achieved a higher level of spirituality when you have daughters who have been spiritually abused at RLc and want nothing to do with Church
And Dan Flory?
How can you as an Elder look at how Tony took advantage of Elder Rick Watson operating the book store and be treated the way he was and not have any guilt or remorse?
How can you get up on Sunday morning and pretend everything is OK at Radiant Life?
I think I will stop there for now because I’m going to bed.
Oh!!!!!
P.S. Congratulations to Radiant Life of Laguna for breaking away from Tony Cunningham & his teachings!
Plus changing the name of your church to "Open Door"......WOW!!!!
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
Deja Vu
()
Date: September 19, 2008 11:22PM
On a morning that I would normally be working in my ministry of 5+ years, I am still coming to terms with that part of my life being over. Part of me feels emancipated from a very sick system and the other part of me feels like the ugly stepchild. This is a very strange path God has led me down. I am absolutely confident that I am where he wants me, but it still makes me sad. I mourn for all those who have been abused and misled, and certainly those who don’t even realize it’s happened to them too."Quote
his daughter
"
"God has been so good to me. He has not let me hold any hatred or bitterness towards anyone in leadership, even the worst offender. I have forgiven all. However, an abuser must not be allowed to continue in abuse. He must be removed from power immediately. There are no excuses for allowing this to continue. Playing with people’s lives, especially when it comes to their spiritual walk, is of the highest offenses. To me, it is no different from any other kind of abuse."
Sarah, It is really good hearing of your journey. I had a blessed privilage in speaking with your mom on the phone the other day. She is a bright and wise woman that is for sure. You both are in a good place. I only hope our conversation was helpful to her.
In regards to your above post that I quoted in part, I understand your feeling emancipated and ugly. I am glad you shared that because this is a very common occurence among those who are leaving and even some who still remain. For me... I felt seperated and alone at first while feeling seperated from God. I felt confused and in darkness. Why? Was it because I was no longer under covering? No, not at all. Resolve was being brought to my life. An unhealthy part of me was being purged. It's like going through a month "DETOX" for your body. At first, all kinds of crazy symptoms happen, including manifestations of sickness, headaches, dizziness, skin soares, weakness, etc, etc. You almost want to quit, but don't. And when you complete the "DETOX", your body finds LIFE and you feel liberated and full of energy. Before the detox, what you don't realize is that all the unhealthy elements in your body are slowly killing you.
Eventually, I was able to see thing REAL clearly and God, the God of heaven, the WORD, The Christ began to REVEAL himself to me in a way I never knew. He has shown me a truth that I only felt was out there, but never saw it. I found TRUE PEACE inside myself and for the first time since I received Jesus so many years ago, I was RECONCILED to myself and then to Him. I became one man. I now have something that KNOW ONE can take from me.
If any of you are experiencing the same symptoms, stay your course. You are not crazy. You are not insubordinate. You are not out of covering. Yes, you may be confused, but not forever. You will see things clearly eventually. And...... You will see Christ! You will one day just know TRUTH and in that moment, you will easily recognize the "LIER" and you will know resolutely everything that does not come from God. You will know FREEDOM in a way you have never felt before. Stay your course!
Also, in regards to the other quote. I totally agree with you. There is forgivness on my part as well. I do not think Tony is the enemy, only a tool of the enemy do alot of harm.I do not hate my brother AT ALL. I am not even angry at him as a man, but I am pissed off at the spirit in him that is doing all of this harm. I want it out of him and want it to stop! I also agree that there are do penalties and consequences for these actions. Healing comes after disapline. Until later, all of you be blessed!
_Ryan-
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2008 11:25PM by Deja Vu.
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: September 19, 2008 11:47PM
The other Elder I'm going to call into accont is Greg Skinner.
Where are his kids today?
Why do they want nothing to do with God or a church?
Did Kathy and Greg spiritualy sacrifice them so Kathy could be Tonys personal admin and Greg could be an elder?
How does that qualify Greg to be an elder?
Where are his kids today?
Why do they want nothing to do with God or a church?
Did Kathy and Greg spiritualy sacrifice them so Kathy could be Tonys personal admin and Greg could be an elder?
How does that qualify Greg to be an elder?
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
his daughter
()
Date: September 20, 2008 05:26AM
This bears repeating, several times. Read it. Think about it.
Quote
Ring barer
Ok, first some background. I am now a criminal justice major and will be working on my BA this next fall… I need a break… anyway as a result I have had to take several classes that deal with Psychopathic behavior and Cult organizations. The information I state was not just pulled out of the air but actually exists as common tendencies. I will mix my own rendition of RLC into the mix to describe exactly how this particular “church” is able to hold people and how people find their way out.
There are 4 different reasons why anyone in a cult or at RLC continues to stay intact with that body and find it hard to leave. Many people ask why don’t people just get out and the simple answer is they are literally not totally thinking for themselves… they are in effect brainwashed. I know that sounds loonies to some of you but it is actually a common phenomenon and not hard to do or have done to you.
The basic premise or forte for a cult is: “if you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”. This is a fact look it up!!!
When you are in the inner circle of RLC you will find hat these 4 things are very prevalent and in fact what keep people in.
#1 Fear
#2 Guilt
#3 Hope
#4 The Pat
The teachings of RLC over time will instill a certain amount of fear in people. One of the major contributing factors that keep people in is fear. Fear that if they leave they are leaving covering and this would mean that God would not look out for them. Fear that they would walk away from the true faith, the true vision and the man that can carry us there, fear that you will not gain your inheritance as set forth by RLC and its leader or whom ever your spiritual Father is, fear that you will be cursed as so many were in the bible teachings of soma and Tony when someone went against authority… there are many more fears that make people hesitate that many of you know. If I were to go into all of them it would be a long post. But the point is the fear is that you will be walking away from God and all that is right and that you will somehow be cursed for disobeying the authority.
The next thing is guilt. The guilt and the fear are similar but have differences in the emotional though process. There is an immense amount of guilt that comes from any thought that is questioning the authority. This guilt is not as much from the outside as it is an inward guilt born of the teachings that cause that fear as well. When you start to question something or someone whether it is something you saw a leader do or a teaching you heard, almost immediately guilt starts to creep in with thoughts of disobedience, dishonor, insubordinate and not being loyal. There is a ton of teaching on honoring your leaders, submission; obedience to leaders is obedience to God etc… the other form of guilt is the constant feeling that you have not met the spiritual quotas that determine whether or not you will know God as Tony knows God. If you miss a congregational session such as Gap, Friday night worship, a soma class etc… there is pressure that comes from leadership and a feeling of guilt from your peers for not being there. Remember “if you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”. Also it is likely that you may feel as though you will miss something significant in the spirit and be left to the side as is implied whenever people miss something… “That was the best Gap ever”, “The holy spirit showed up that night” etc… but the major guilt factor that keeps people from leaving is that internal feeling that you are betraying what God has established in that you even think to question your authorities.
Hope is likely the most profound of them all. Radiant Life Church has an amazing ability to instill a hope of glory into people. There is a huge emphasis on the spirituality of Tony and at one time Brandon and some others. The teachings are suggestive, the discipleships are suggestive and the people in leadership are suggestive that Tony is as close to God as you will ever see a man. The hope is held out to you that you can be there as well, that you can be free of yourself, that you can be filled with power as he is and that you were made for great things. This hope is used to keep people on the end of a string. So many Christians flocking to this hope that they were made for more and that only at RLC and under these leaders it is found; The hope that this place holds access to God and the favor of God more than anywhere else. People in the inner circle are still waiting for this hope, that they will find God, that they will be like Brandon and Tony… that they will be missionaries and prophets and evangelists and teachers filled with the power that comes from the covering of Radiant Life. They hold on to the hope that this place is going to give them what it has promised in church planting, in revival, in the pouring out of the holy spirit on those that will “endure” and stay with the church. People are still waiting for this and they hold this profound hope that in Tony and through his vision they will find their purpose… this hope that is presented as fact to them keeps them… to leave is may be to walk away from your calling.
And finally the Pat. The pat is very simple in any cult. When a member is looking as though they are moving away from the core or thinking a little to much for themselves the leadership will come alongside that person and encourage them that they are on the right path, that they are doing well, Gods will, the “Tony” is proud of them… these pats are extremely effective in consoling the soul of people that are weary and need a boost to remain connected. Many times people have planned to leave RLC only to become the newest spiritual success story that leadership would praise… in fact you may be surprised at the amount of people this has accrued with… the other way the Pat is used is when you have become trusted enough that the very high leadership will confide in you about others in the congregation things that should not be divulged ever, only to end the meeting with the “Pat” on the back saying “you know YOU are faithful, YOU I am proud of and I know I can trust YOU”. The fact is that these pats can pull a skeptical member right back in because they get that affirmation they have been longing for…
While I have given a brief and choppy rendition I can explain far more in my own words just talking. However, these things are the reasons people don’t just get out…. They are afraid of the consequences of leaving the covering, they feel guilty over the undermining of what they have come to believe is God ordained, they are hoping with all there being that it was not all for nothing and that they will see what they have been told they will see, and the affirmation of leadership can cause them to think that all is right and they are on the right path.
This is a cycle and it is in fact brainwashing through teachings on a continual and constant basis… “If you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”.
And while fear, guilt, hope and affirmation keep people from leaving there are 2 things that get them out!!!
This is wonderful and can be used effectively. What breaks the cycle and causes people to start to realize that they have been brainwashed and that RLC is in fact off base?
Distance and offence
There are two things that facilitate people leaving a brainwashing cult, the first is distance… if there can be some, even a little, distance created where the person is not so inundated with propaganda the mind will naturally start to try to think on its own… you see physiologically your mind wants to come to its own conclusions and evaluate to come to convictions and opinions… IT’S CALLED THINKING… RLC would teach you that to think for yourself will yield you curses such as leprosy. You are not to think for yourself but submit to your leaders in getting council from them on all of your affairs. When there is distance there is less propaganda coming into the mind, when there is less propaganda coming into the mind the mind will naturally start to try to regain some thought process and you will actually start to think on your own… a little. This allows for you to regain some objectivity and some opinion on matters. When there is an offence mixed with a little distance the mind will begin to think and the person will allow themselves to question the nobility of what they have been taught … The power comes when you have an offence or have witnessed what your natural mind knows to be not right. You see if there is distance and an offence is introduced you, being free to think on that offence objectively, will allow a little more distance, which in turn will allow more time for your mind to recover, which in turn will cause you to start realizing there is much wrongdoing and the place is off base.
The problem is that usually people will fly into confusion, bitterness, etc… all that we have experienced. However, this forum, if it remains to be a place were people can process and share positively, will help those that get out and they will dwell far less on the offences and far more on finding what is right… call it idealistic, but its happening right now…
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
BraveHeart
()
Date: September 20, 2008 01:47PM
Thanks Ring Barer and His Daughter
Thanks for sharing this information!!!!
It is amazing to look back in retrospect and have that “Aw-Ha moment” this depicts what SOMA was like to the "T"! And it reflects what the Gap turned into being. To see people trying to out do the other just to get recognizes by Tony. Tony would slowly turn around looking around when people were singing or praying and make eye contact then give you that nod. That was the little pat. People would become completive with each other trying to be more spiritual this happened in marriages, trying to out do the other spouce what happened to the 2 become one?
A most excellent post!!!
!!!!
Thanks for sharing this information!!!!
It is amazing to look back in retrospect and have that “Aw-Ha moment” this depicts what SOMA was like to the "T"! And it reflects what the Gap turned into being. To see people trying to out do the other just to get recognizes by Tony. Tony would slowly turn around looking around when people were singing or praying and make eye contact then give you that nod. That was the little pat. People would become completive with each other trying to be more spiritual this happened in marriages, trying to out do the other spouce what happened to the 2 become one?
A most excellent post!!!
!!!!
Quote
his daughter
This bears repeating, several times. Read it. Think about it.Quote
Ring barer
Ok, first some background. I am now a criminal justice major and will be working on my BA this next fall… I need a break… anyway as a result I have had to take several classes that deal with Psychopathic behavior and Cult organizations. The information I state was not just pulled out of the air but actually exists as common tendencies. I will mix my own rendition of RLC into the mix to describe exactly how this particular “church” is able to hold people and how people find their way out.
There are 4 different reasons why anyone in a cult or at RLC continues to stay intact with that body and find it hard to leave. Many people ask why don’t people just get out and the simple answer is they are literally not totally thinking for themselves… they are in effect brainwashed. I know that sounds loonies to some of you but it is actually a common phenomenon and not hard to do or have done to you.
The basic premise or forte for a cult is: “if you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”. This is a fact look it up!!!
When you are in the inner circle of RLC you will find hat these 4 things are very prevalent and in fact what keep people in.
#1 Fear
#2 Guilt
#3 Hope
#4 The Pat
The teachings of RLC over time will instill a certain amount of fear in people. One of the major contributing factors that keep people in is fear. Fear that if they leave they are leaving covering and this would mean that God would not look out for them. Fear that they would walk away from the true faith, the true vision and the man that can carry us there, fear that you will not gain your inheritance as set forth by RLC and its leader or whom ever your spiritual Father is, fear that you will be cursed as so many were in the bible teachings of soma and Tony when someone went against authority… there are many more fears that make people hesitate that many of you know. If I were to go into all of them it would be a long post. But the point is the fear is that you will be walking away from God and all that is right and that you will somehow be cursed for disobeying the authority.
The next thing is guilt. The guilt and the fear are similar but have differences in the emotional though process. There is an immense amount of guilt that comes from any thought that is questioning the authority. This guilt is not as much from the outside as it is an inward guilt born of the teachings that cause that fear as well. When you start to question something or someone whether it is something you saw a leader do or a teaching you heard, almost immediately guilt starts to creep in with thoughts of disobedience, dishonor, insubordinate and not being loyal. There is a ton of teaching on honoring your leaders, submission; obedience to leaders is obedience to God etc… the other form of guilt is the constant feeling that you have not met the spiritual quotas that determine whether or not you will know God as Tony knows God. If you miss a congregational session such as Gap, Friday night worship, a soma class etc… there is pressure that comes from leadership and a feeling of guilt from your peers for not being there. Remember “if you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”. Also it is likely that you may feel as though you will miss something significant in the spirit and be left to the side as is implied whenever people miss something… “That was the best Gap ever”, “The holy spirit showed up that night” etc… but the major guilt factor that keeps people from leaving is that internal feeling that you are betraying what God has established in that you even think to question your authorities.
Hope is likely the most profound of them all. Radiant Life Church has an amazing ability to instill a hope of glory into people. There is a huge emphasis on the spirituality of Tony and at one time Brandon and some others. The teachings are suggestive, the discipleships are suggestive and the people in leadership are suggestive that Tony is as close to God as you will ever see a man. The hope is held out to you that you can be there as well, that you can be free of yourself, that you can be filled with power as he is and that you were made for great things. This hope is used to keep people on the end of a string. So many Christians flocking to this hope that they were made for more and that only at RLC and under these leaders it is found; The hope that this place holds access to God and the favor of God more than anywhere else. People in the inner circle are still waiting for this hope, that they will find God, that they will be like Brandon and Tony… that they will be missionaries and prophets and evangelists and teachers filled with the power that comes from the covering of Radiant Life. They hold on to the hope that this place is going to give them what it has promised in church planting, in revival, in the pouring out of the holy spirit on those that will “endure” and stay with the church. People are still waiting for this and they hold this profound hope that in Tony and through his vision they will find their purpose… this hope that is presented as fact to them keeps them… to leave is may be to walk away from your calling.
And finally the Pat. The pat is very simple in any cult. When a member is looking as though they are moving away from the core or thinking a little to much for themselves the leadership will come alongside that person and encourage them that they are on the right path, that they are doing well, Gods will, the “Tony” is proud of them… these pats are extremely effective in consoling the soul of people that are weary and need a boost to remain connected. Many times people have planned to leave RLC only to become the newest spiritual success story that leadership would praise… in fact you may be surprised at the amount of people this has accrued with… the other way the Pat is used is when you have become trusted enough that the very high leadership will confide in you about others in the congregation things that should not be divulged ever, only to end the meeting with the “Pat” on the back saying “you know YOU are faithful, YOU I am proud of and I know I can trust YOU”. The fact is that these pats can pull a skeptical member right back in because they get that affirmation they have been longing for…
While I have given a brief and choppy rendition I can explain far more in my own words just talking. However, these things are the reasons people don’t just get out…. They are afraid of the consequences of leaving the covering, they feel guilty over the undermining of what they have come to believe is God ordained, they are hoping with all there being that it was not all for nothing and that they will see what they have been told they will see, and the affirmation of leadership can cause them to think that all is right and they are on the right path.
This is a cycle and it is in fact brainwashing through teachings on a continual and constant basis… “If you control what goes into the mind, you control the mind”.
And while fear, guilt, hope and affirmation keep people from leaving there are 2 things that get them out!!!
This is wonderful and can be used effectively. What breaks the cycle and causes people to start to realize that they have been brainwashed and that RLC is in fact off base?
Distance and offence
There are two things that facilitate people leaving a brainwashing cult, the first is distance… if there can be some, even a little, distance created where the person is not so inundated with propaganda the mind will naturally start to try to think on its own… you see physiologically your mind wants to come to its own conclusions and evaluate to come to convictions and opinions… IT’S CALLED THINKING… RLC would teach you that to think for yourself will yield you curses such as leprosy. You are not to think for yourself but submit to your leaders in getting council from them on all of your affairs. When there is distance there is less propaganda coming into the mind, when there is less propaganda coming into the mind the mind will naturally start to try to regain some thought process and you will actually start to think on your own… a little. This allows for you to regain some objectivity and some opinion on matters. When there is an offence mixed with a little distance the mind will begin to think and the person will allow themselves to question the nobility of what they have been taught … The power comes when you have an offence or have witnessed what your natural mind knows to be not right. You see if there is distance and an offence is introduced you, being free to think on that offence objectively, will allow a little more distance, which in turn will allow more time for your mind to recover, which in turn will cause you to start realizing there is much wrongdoing and the place is off base.
The problem is that usually people will fly into confusion, bitterness, etc… all that we have experienced. However, this forum, if it remains to be a place were people can process and share positively, will help those that get out and they will dwell far less on the offences and far more on finding what is right… call it idealistic, but its happening right now…
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
pray4them
()
Date: September 22, 2008 12:50AM
So here I am again with a heart full of anger that desires revenge towards evil that goes by the name of Tony. I dont stay there long because it is not healthy and i wont let him live in my head rent free. That being said it is difficult for me to know he is walking the street having spiritually RAPED my son and daughter. There should be a website similar to megans law except it has the names and addresses of spiritual rapists and spiritual child molesters posing as pastors. Tony would have multiple felonies in both these areas not too mention lieing,cheating and stealing. Lets not forget imposter(the whole pastor scharade). But alas there is a website that exists such as the one I have described.The webmaster is a man they call Jesus.He has kept an account of those who have been spiritually molested and will bring down the proper judgement in His time. These crimes against Gods children have not been swept under the rug (except by the elders) and we stand back pray and watch patiently as God destroys what is left of Tony's dynasty.Tony if you read this you really want to write my name on a stick and break it. WHAT????Tony knows what i am talking about. It s how he places a curse on those who oppose his spiritual abuse. Woops thats supposed to be kept secret. Tony why all the defectors?? Now you have whole churches jumping ship. Previously it was just those who you in all your spiritual grandeur had annointed to be pas tors and leaders.I mus t say that your pastor picker is broke. How could you have made so many errors in spiritual judgement? And you want to be the RLC fearless leader. Where was your Prophetic gift when it came to seeing those called to lead?You failed to realize that the vulnerable would one day actually mature spiritually and realize how phony you are. I remember looking in your eyes at my sons grand opening and from one conartist to another you knew that I knew you were an imposter. Tony i think as men....you do consisder yourself a man?.....we should go back to old school. walk down to the park and handle this thing like men. But once again I will turn this battle over to the Lord for it is His to fight. Oh and by the way HE IS WINNING. Keep up the GOOD fight for you are doing a good work.God hears your cry and vengence belongs to OUR Lord...til next time Shane
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
his daughter
()
Date: September 22, 2008 04:57AM
hey everyone-
just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you who have gone (literally gone) before us and opened a door to leave that building. this is not easy, to say the least. thank you for sticking your neck on the line, being willing to risk it all, and stay persistent in this battle. your encouragement and strength mean a lot to me personally.
i feel like i'm on an island now. i am trying new places and new people out, but it feels like moving to a new town on the other side of the country. all these trust issues come up and i am extremely guarded with what i allow myself to be taught - which is a good thing, even if it doesn't feel so great. it helps to know that i am not alone though, that there are others out there like me - and even those who have done it victoriously.
so although i may never meet most of you, please know that your efforts and willingness to be transparent are appreciated and valued. you are my brothers and sisters and you have held me up.
in HIS love, sara
just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you who have gone (literally gone) before us and opened a door to leave that building. this is not easy, to say the least. thank you for sticking your neck on the line, being willing to risk it all, and stay persistent in this battle. your encouragement and strength mean a lot to me personally.
i feel like i'm on an island now. i am trying new places and new people out, but it feels like moving to a new town on the other side of the country. all these trust issues come up and i am extremely guarded with what i allow myself to be taught - which is a good thing, even if it doesn't feel so great. it helps to know that i am not alone though, that there are others out there like me - and even those who have done it victoriously.
so although i may never meet most of you, please know that your efforts and willingness to be transparent are appreciated and valued. you are my brothers and sisters and you have held me up.
in HIS love, sara
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
Deja Vu
()
Date: September 22, 2008 07:32AM
A THOUGHT FOR THE CURIOUS:
Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
‪ *The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
‪ *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
‪ *Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
‪ *The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). I WANT TO ADD my own... Even encouraged to CHEAT on you spouse and divorce them if necessary. A lot of PRESCRIBED marriages have taken place only to have ended up in divorce at RLC.
‪ *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). NOTE: ( my input) Planting 10 churches per year for ten years domestically and 100 churches per year for 10 years internationally. The whole church and SOMA of RLC, are objects to fullfill this ELITIST purpose. Also, the pastor is known as the "APOSTLE OF THIS AGE". A teacher in Soma once told me that he is King David incarnate--(the spirit of David is now in Tony)
‪ *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
‪ *The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
‪ *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
‪ *The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
‪ *Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
(MY INPUT)- Children at RLC have emancipated themselves often to their biological parents saying that they "RENOUNCE" any inheritance from them and that "THEY DO NOT STAND WITH THEM". Also, at RLC, the members' parents are STRONGLY encouraged to not get their children or themselves involved with extracurricular activities and sports activities and that even public school is not healthy for your children. The only activites that are accepted are those that flow from the Body like... Pilates and Sprint Club and Thanksgiving Football, etc.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with making money. ( MY INPUT ) - much is taught about developing business for the planting of RLC churches around the world. Also, a very strong relationship is bridged with people and businesses that have a lot of money. Tony publically acknowledges and brags about such individuals only to spur on others to do the same. Intentional public acts of "sacrifice" in regards to gifts and money.
‪ *Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
‪ *Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
NOTE: A tremendous amount of arrogance shows up especially in the young people at rLC. Mostly young adults. They are encouraged to "HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OTHERS that are not "PURPOSEFUL" and that will be of negative influence to them. It is really implied that anyone not of the fellowship should not have any "STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIPS with those of the body. Be nice and evangelize to others but only to bring them to the church.
‪ *The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. NOTE: Many if not most of the followers admit now that they have been in much FEAR and CONFUSION and have not spoken out out of fear that they would be looked at as CRAZIES and UNRIGHTEOUS. Friendships that they feared may not be real would soon be put to the test.
My last thoughts:
I speak with people almost daily, not because I call them but because they feel crazy and want answers. They are not as afraid now. There is a lot of confusion now, but that is only a consequence of God bringing a distinction between TRUTH and the LIE. Once sorted through and God changes your mind, you will discover great clarity and total PEACE. You will no longer live in FEAR, but confidence. Stand strong! You are not crazy. Be at rest for God will show you your deliverance.
Once again, I am open to talk. Just go back a few postings and my cell i on here or you can PM me.
Bless you all,
Ryan
Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups - Revised
Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
‪ *The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
‪ *Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
‪ *Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
‪ *The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). I WANT TO ADD my own... Even encouraged to CHEAT on you spouse and divorce them if necessary. A lot of PRESCRIBED marriages have taken place only to have ended up in divorce at RLC.
‪ *The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). NOTE: ( my input) Planting 10 churches per year for ten years domestically and 100 churches per year for 10 years internationally. The whole church and SOMA of RLC, are objects to fullfill this ELITIST purpose. Also, the pastor is known as the "APOSTLE OF THIS AGE". A teacher in Soma once told me that he is King David incarnate--(the spirit of David is now in Tony)
‪ *The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
‪ *The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
‪ *The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
‪ *The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
‪ *Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
(MY INPUT)- Children at RLC have emancipated themselves often to their biological parents saying that they "RENOUNCE" any inheritance from them and that "THEY DO NOT STAND WITH THEM". Also, at RLC, the members' parents are STRONGLY encouraged to not get their children or themselves involved with extracurricular activities and sports activities and that even public school is not healthy for your children. The only activites that are accepted are those that flow from the Body like... Pilates and Sprint Club and Thanksgiving Football, etc.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
‪ *The group is preoccupied with making money. ( MY INPUT ) - much is taught about developing business for the planting of RLC churches around the world. Also, a very strong relationship is bridged with people and businesses that have a lot of money. Tony publically acknowledges and brags about such individuals only to spur on others to do the same. Intentional public acts of "sacrifice" in regards to gifts and money.
‪ *Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
‪ *Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
NOTE: A tremendous amount of arrogance shows up especially in the young people at rLC. Mostly young adults. They are encouraged to "HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OTHERS that are not "PURPOSEFUL" and that will be of negative influence to them. It is really implied that anyone not of the fellowship should not have any "STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIPS with those of the body. Be nice and evangelize to others but only to bring them to the church.
‪ *The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. NOTE: Many if not most of the followers admit now that they have been in much FEAR and CONFUSION and have not spoken out out of fear that they would be looked at as CRAZIES and UNRIGHTEOUS. Friendships that they feared may not be real would soon be put to the test.
My last thoughts:
I speak with people almost daily, not because I call them but because they feel crazy and want answers. They are not as afraid now. There is a lot of confusion now, but that is only a consequence of God bringing a distinction between TRUTH and the LIE. Once sorted through and God changes your mind, you will discover great clarity and total PEACE. You will no longer live in FEAR, but confidence. Stand strong! You are not crazy. Be at rest for God will show you your deliverance.
Once again, I am open to talk. Just go back a few postings and my cell i on here or you can PM me.
Bless you all,
Ryan
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
TomWilson
()
Date: September 22, 2008 11:59AM
Quote
Deja Vu
‪ *Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
NOTE: A tremendous amount of arrogance shows up especially in the young people at RLC. Mostly young adults. They are encouraged to "HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH OTHERS that are not "PURPOSEFUL" and that will be of negative influence to them. It is really implied that anyone not of the fellowship should not have any "STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIPS with those of the body. Be nice and evangelize to others but only to bring them to the church.
I've been tempted to address this particular issue here however I was am I have to admit still am as I right this afraid it would not be received. I can tell you that I have often said that at RLC their is a "Youth Cult." I can remember the first recognized the exaltation of the College and Career age. I don't remember if it was on FNW or GAP, but Tony announced (This is Not a Perfect Quote) that from now on he would be focusing all his energy on developing the College and Career age. I immediately knew in my spirit that meant that others especially persons like myself 40 years and above would be marginalized. That is exactly what happened unless you were an above average monetary contributor to RLC, above average in the world of business, or your excessive adoration and devotion to (Dare I say worship of) Tony caught his attention.
I can tell you that men like myself, Ken Duffy, Russ Croco, and others were virtually ignored unless they desired our services for something the leaders didn't know how to do or didn't want to be bothered with. Other then when they wanted to use us we were treated as if we had nothing of value to say or contribute besides our money and our labor. And from experience I can tell you this attitude was picked up by the young men and women in positions of whom I experienced display disrespect and disregard of my input and who I saw display that to others like Ken Duffy. They funny thing is I'm only older than Tony C by a few months, but we were born in the same year.
There are many other 40+ and older persons who received the same kind of disrespect and disregard for and our right disinterest in our gifts, experience, and wisdom. I don't know how many times I humbly or Ken Duffy humbly shared wisdom with young leaders that was ignored or treated with out right disrespect and then later the young leader(s) after something had gone to far did what we suggested weeks or months earlier.
I only bring this up hear, because there are others 40+ or even in the mid to late 30's here in this forum that have valuable experience and knowledge and contributions to bring to those here in this forum some have shared things in this forum and have gotten far fewer responses. I suspect have even to some degree even been ignored.
I never went to SOMA, because I knew it was off, I for instance and others my age I've talked to didn't get abused by some of the things at RLC, because we recognized the false teachings for what they were and didn't let anyone bring us into the bondage and abuse that some of you with less experience and less years in the faith got caught in. This is not meant to be a put down it is to say I and others are valuable it would probably be wise to seek some of us maybe even me out for help in getting through this and sorting through it all.
I hope this makes sense. I'm available to anyone that contacts me by PM and asked for my phone number.
Last Friday I made a post and for some reason something happened and the system asked me to login in again and it didn't get posted, but I wrote it in Word first and save it their so I'm going to post it Monday when I get to that computer I hope it gets posted and some people that need to take what I wrote to heart as I think it is valuable.
You Elder Brother (If you are younger then 45-years-old)
Tom Wilson
Re: Has Anyone Ever Heard of Radiant Life Church in Sacramento
Posted by:
Deja Vu
()
Date: September 22, 2008 10:59PM
Tom, last night I watched a two hour segment on the History Channel on "CULTS". Jim Jones, Charles Manson, David Koresh, etc. were on there. One of many things that all cult leaders have in common in this story is that they draw the young people of 16-25 years of age and mainly of female gender. WHY? They said it is because they are "In-Betweeners". They are trying to find purpose, careers, families, etc. Many have been abused by parents. They have not landed on REAL careers yet and are just wanderers. They dont know what to do in regards to college. So these leaders, especially Jim Jones and Charles Manson, lured these young ones in to give them a purpose. They often would tell them that their "parents were dangerous because they did not give them a good future and abused them in some fashion." He would encourage them to "disconnect" themselves from their parents. It would be better for them. Then the leaders would take them under their wings.
The cult leaders primary target was this generation. SOUND FAMILIAR? Here is the crazy and ironic thing. The common thing that these followers called the leaders were were, "Spiritual Father", God the Father and some of them called them Lord and Messiah. They would often say, "He is the most humble man we know and the MOST LOVING and GOOD FATHER we have ever met." They exhalt him and lavish him with gifts and words and prayers.
These leaders often taught about hard work and focused it inward. They encouraged through strong suggestion to devote themselves to the ministry work everyday as to keep them from becoming complacent and lazy. There only accepted interaction with others was only with the body of followers. I could go on, but you get the point.
Here is the kicker: The more powerful they got, the more "CRACKS" in their system and theology were discovered. When some called it out, they were "ousted". Some of the followers who got out, admitted that when they were told of some of the weird things that the leader was doing, they did not believe it because all they saw with their own eyes was good things. Why is that all they saw? They said it is because they chose to blind themselves from discovering the truth. They did not want to believe that all they devoted themslves to was a lie. It was too hard to swallow for them. ADMISSION OF TRUTH!
Before many of you say," There is one problem here with your post. These men have one thing against them. They are not believers or brothers and that they are wicked and Tony is not." Let me be very clear as I close this post out. Jim Jones received JESUS when he was nine years old and devoted himself to the work of God in the Pentacostal Church. When he chose to be the pastor of a church, his main core purpose was to please God by "caring for the poor". He set up soup kitchens and homless ministries. He was not malicious. But because of his past being mistreated from his parents, he began to practice ungodly things as his authority grew. His Ministry motive began to be for self. He began to believe that his WAY was the only way and that he was the Authority to follow and honor. Yes, he started out good only to grow wicked ultimately in the end, killing over 900 people at "Jonestown". ( I am not implying whatsover that Tony is this extreme yet. Please know that) This is another mans story. Tony is still creating his.
AM I saying that Tony is like this? Only you can come to that conclusion. I will not decide that for any of you. All I am doing is posting a response to Tom and some characteristics to consider. Do I have my opinion on all of this? Yes, I do.
Take care. I hope this was helpful, though hard to hear.
-Ryan-
The cult leaders primary target was this generation. SOUND FAMILIAR? Here is the crazy and ironic thing. The common thing that these followers called the leaders were were, "Spiritual Father", God the Father and some of them called them Lord and Messiah. They would often say, "He is the most humble man we know and the MOST LOVING and GOOD FATHER we have ever met." They exhalt him and lavish him with gifts and words and prayers.
These leaders often taught about hard work and focused it inward. They encouraged through strong suggestion to devote themselves to the ministry work everyday as to keep them from becoming complacent and lazy. There only accepted interaction with others was only with the body of followers. I could go on, but you get the point.
Here is the kicker: The more powerful they got, the more "CRACKS" in their system and theology were discovered. When some called it out, they were "ousted". Some of the followers who got out, admitted that when they were told of some of the weird things that the leader was doing, they did not believe it because all they saw with their own eyes was good things. Why is that all they saw? They said it is because they chose to blind themselves from discovering the truth. They did not want to believe that all they devoted themslves to was a lie. It was too hard to swallow for them. ADMISSION OF TRUTH!
Before many of you say," There is one problem here with your post. These men have one thing against them. They are not believers or brothers and that they are wicked and Tony is not." Let me be very clear as I close this post out. Jim Jones received JESUS when he was nine years old and devoted himself to the work of God in the Pentacostal Church. When he chose to be the pastor of a church, his main core purpose was to please God by "caring for the poor". He set up soup kitchens and homless ministries. He was not malicious. But because of his past being mistreated from his parents, he began to practice ungodly things as his authority grew. His Ministry motive began to be for self. He began to believe that his WAY was the only way and that he was the Authority to follow and honor. Yes, he started out good only to grow wicked ultimately in the end, killing over 900 people at "Jonestown". ( I am not implying whatsover that Tony is this extreme yet. Please know that) This is another mans story. Tony is still creating his.
AM I saying that Tony is like this? Only you can come to that conclusion. I will not decide that for any of you. All I am doing is posting a response to Tom and some characteristics to consider. Do I have my opinion on all of this? Yes, I do.
Take care. I hope this was helpful, though hard to hear.
-Ryan-
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