In thinking about the discipleship, authority, submission, and control issues, I would like to say that I saw it everywhere but in my own personal discipleship experience I was not controlled by the person discipling me. I definately saw the control over my discipler and I was led in some ways but not in the control of my life. The themes mentioned also ran in many other areas of the church including all of the ministries.

WAJ......BraveWarrior
I want to thank you for being truue to yourself and all who come here looking for answers. you continue to fight hard for the truth in all your postings and prayers. thanks again for all that you do in your postings. come on everybody the battel cry has been sounded and we are fighting to expose the false teachers false prophet & false apostle.

I recall a comment made by a young gal in Soma once. It was something the effect of: "Ah, Tony is the greatest father to us." Truly, it was said. And not by one of his birth daughters.

Notes from 11/4/04 "Heart of David" Class in Soma

"Unified Geese" - Apostle Tony
- A heart of David is a heart for God, and is the same as a heart for people.
- We do not have a healthy concept of Kingdom, so we lack being connected.

- Being unified requires having a king.
1. All authority is established by God.
2. David honored and submitted to Jesse and Saul, we should do the same.
3. By doing so we will desire what the king desires.

- What is king-worthy?
The Bible calls extravagant:
1. Noah's Ark
2. Year's wages of purfume on Jesus' feet to honor Him.
3. Wash with tears and dry with hair was humility before the king.
4. Sacrifice of bulls every six steps.
5. Sacrifice long-awaited son.
6. Samuel at the temple.
7. Leaving old way of life for the king.
8. Marrying a widow because of her righteousness.
9. Jesus' sacrifice.

KEY NOTE: There is a direct correlation between loving people and loving God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2008 12:59PM by Soma Notes.

Discipleship Lesson Notes 12/5/04:

Order of Influence: Tony to right hand man to right hand man to me, and likely passed down a couple more levels (to my shame).

"Hindrances to relationships"

INDEPENDENCE!
How does independence show itself in us?
1. Not allowing others to teach me or instruct.
- We need someone to teach us or we are alone.
2. Not receiving correction.
- By not receiving correction, I am not experiencing God in my life.
- If I am not willing to learn from people then I do not want to learn from God.
3. Not being united.
- Unity brings the pleasure of God and the favor of God.
4. Not being submitted.
- To submit is to make my will second to who I am submitted to.
5. Not seeking council.
- We will not succeed on our own decisions without seeking wisdom from others.
- We must distinguish between our voice, the devils voice, other peoples voice, and Gods voice.

*** Our relationships are key to seeing fruit in our lives.

ooh........SomaNotes...........those notes are scary. Thanks for posting them. That is some sick twisted stuff and I hope people see that and see the cult aspect of RLC. I can relate to your comment of the young girl in SOMA. I had a similar experience with hearing an older lady say that she just wanted to sit at the feet of Tony. Yikes!

Also, I wonder if Hitlers authority was established by God and if we were there if we would have been pleasing to God to submit to him. If Jesus and his disciples submitted in totality to the authority of Rome and those around them there would be no gospel to spread.

Here is one last short note I found in the back of an old notebook...

"Our relationships should be 80/20. 80% of our time should be spent leading others, and 20% of our time with our leaders."

Wow... I just finished re-reading this entire forum from the first page... and to see the change in so many and how far this has come is amazing.

Reading back: Where are the following characters today? humblefollower, godshd, Somite, TMAC, concern, AbandonedbyRLC, humble yourself, Radiant Life is a Cult, mowman_100, claypot, Curiousobserver, Speaktruth, RLCattendant, Aaron Love, somasux, despisenone, Private-Eye, EmeraldMyst, Dr. Love, Committed2U, freejoy, dark_around_the_edges, others I may have missed? Are any of you still reading and observing? Feel free to JOIN US! There has been so much change here!

Hey everybody, It's Heidi. It's so good to hear that you guys are hanging in there. Mike and I and the kids are doing great. Matt and Sarah have been a source of real friendship to all of us, we love you guys! I have been struggling with my gut feelings about my issues with RLC for almost 2 years now. We haven't been to church since we last attended RLC back in December of 07. Our family attended RLC for 15 years. Mike and I served, our kids served, we had great connection to a lot of people and had a real desire to grow and learn. Some of what we experienced was a true blessing and has enhanced our walk with God forever. Some of what we experienced has been harmful to us and has left emothional scars. I am broken over my own foolishness. I cannot believe that I actually thought these people loved me and cared for me. I spent six years on staff busting my tail for the good of the whole. Don't get me wrong, I am not perfect and never pretend to be. Most of you know Mike and I are real and proud of it. I was exhausted and bewildered at the false attempts at godliness and change. Life Change Today is the coined phrase right? Not many people change. They make false attempts at being christ like and turn around and talk behind your back. I was convinced that these people loved me, I was wrong. Since we stopped attending not one person that claimed to love me has called to see if I am okay. Not one pastor, not one "friend". I have heard rumors that we have been called " dangerous" and people should not spend time with us due to the dangerous influence we provide. If this rumor is in fact true, Mike and I are heartbroken to think that the love of christ we extend to people is "dangerous". I have so much more to share but feel I need to make sure my thoughts and words are not unhealthy. I am grateful to God for the experience of RLC however, right now it is hard to get past the pain. We all love God, and love people this is truly who we are, due to the love of christ in us. We are firm believers in God being in control of all things. This too is not beyond him. He will bring us comfort and peace, bless you all, and much love.

To whom it may concern:

Perhaps some of you have already read these books, which can be very helpful.

"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse"
[www.amazon.com]

"Churches That Abuse"
[www.amazon.com]

These two books can be very helpful to anyone sorting through a negative experience with a destructive church.