ditto to somanotes comment.

Hello, again!

I wanted to address a few things. First, to Heidi: Heidi, I love you! I have never doubted your love for me, either. Yes, crappy things went down and you, just like the rest of us who were groomed for leadership, made some poor choices because that's what you knew to do. By the way, who were your examples? Whose faith were you suggested to imitate? Again, we can't ever exclude human nature here, but really, the very fact that you have stepped out, and especially being as close to so many that are to blame for all the pain going on, I applaud you for not being a chicken. In fact, you may have bigger balls than many of us! You wonder if you're moving forward-- why are you asking? Is it that Heidi deep-down-inside feels like she's stuck, or is it the Heidi who has been programmed that if we-are-not-moving-forward-we-are-going-backward-because-life-isn't-static is wondering? (Does this teaching sound familiar?- By the way, there is some truth to the latter statement, but in this case, I am referring to the ultra-progressive RLC lifestyle, i.e., if it's in your way, mow it over). Can I suggest that the very fact that you are going through all this crap is moving forward? This isn't just some quick-fix, though I wish it were. You are peeling away layers (years!!!!) of a foundation that you have recently come to find is really jacked up! Then you're sifting through the rubble, trying to find what's truth or fiction. It's not until you have taken out all the trash (or most of it!) that you can begin to build up again. Don't tell me you're not moving forward, sister! You are indeed!!! It just kinds stinks to be in what you thought was your house, looking at a bunch of ruins. Don't stop searching. I assure you, you are moving forward.... The first time I ever spoke to you, you had had a dream about me working with children. I want you to know that I thoroughly enjoyed my time serving in the children's ministry, possibly more than any other, and I don't know if I would have ever thought I had much to offer had you not shared your dream with me. That was real. God gave something to you to share, and I believe it made a difference. This is just one, simple example. I have been blessed by your friendship in multiple ways. I am sorry if I have not shown more of my heart to you. I would love to spend more time with you if we can arrange it.

And Deja Vu, as far as the healing process goes, it seems that new things pop up all the time that I have to sift through or recognize if it's worth chasing to a conclusion, or if I should just add it to the pile of things I'm ready to be done with. I sincerely believe that being able to talk to others going through this process, knowing I'm not being judged but that my thoughts and feelings are justified, has been HUGE. I think Matt has been instrumental in this process for me because he was never afraid to call things like they were, while I chose to beat around the bush and make justifications for other people's actions. It was hard to listen to Matt sometimes, but I always found myself agreeing with him after I had some time to think. As some of you mentioned above, it was hard to accept the "cult" word, let alone say it aloud, but come on! Who are we kidding? I still sometimes fight it in my head, trying to justify that it was a just a good idea gone terribly wrong, but no matter what it was to begin with, it is what it is now, and why should I keep defending it? Did any of you find yourselves defending the church all the time while you were there? Why the heck did we feel the need to defend it in the first place? And by the way, for those of you wondering, MATT DID NOT TURN ME AWAY FROM RLC! I WAS ALREADY ON MY WAY OUT, TOO! I feel the need to say this because I know how particular people like to pin things on "others" who outspokenly oppose their ideas.

Okay, enough for now. I have had a few conversations in the past week with people still connected and I am still processing. It is a delicate situation. I hope my illustrations weren't too wacky. Sometimes it's hard to convey the things I see in my head!


Kevin Reta: Thank you for continuing to press in and hear what God is speaking to you. It is encouraging to know that your love for Jesus is always burning! I am still thinking about the lifeboat scenario. I had never looked at it that way, always thought we were on a big ship. Probably too much Master and Commander teaching.

Transparent: My lifeboat comes equipped with a Bob c.d.

Nicole and Karen: I really appreciate your willingness to expose who you were and who you are. It always amazes me to see that there were people hurting just like me, sitting just a few feet away (or on stage!) and I never knew.

WhatAJoke: I appreciate that you are taking the time to research and find out why you feel the way you do. It's so easy to just be angry and let it fester. Thank you for your honesty and willingness to share your heart. It's refreshing to see so many REAL thoughts coming from your heart.


Goodnight...

I believe the best healing for me was to get ALL of my family out and away from the Demonic stronghold that Tony and his teachings have over people.
But to quietly leave and not stand up to this evil teaching and manipulation is a bit of a coward or as some have said fear of man.
I stood up to Tony before getting my family out of RLc and they came back at my family. demonizing me and trying to discredit my openions and views of Tonys teachings.

So my advice is if you are lingering arround at RLc attending just the Sundy service (where Tony does not openly push his false teachings) get out of the RLc!!!!!!

Andrea
Thanks for posting it is so good to here from you.
thanks for your story.

Hey Jen and Bill: i never knew why ya'll left but now i see why. I loved you guys so much and I espescially am greatful for your love for eachother. I always looked up to your marriage and wanted one like yours. I remember the gift you gave me Bill and I will always be greatful!

escapee007 I understand you taking the position of not wanting to call RLC a cult. I too refrained from calling it a cult for about a 1 1/2 year. but for me I had to take a very close look at the fruit of the church its teachings and simply weigh the positives & negitave effects. in my study of Revelations chapters 1-3 it became very clear to me that Jesus hates the teachings of the Nicolaitians & Jezebel. So if my Lord hates these false teachers and false apostles and false prophts then I need to draw the line between Right & Wrong and Not Tollorate the evil lurking in the leadership at RLc!!!
Now please understand there are people there who have not sucumed to the ways of Tony and have distanced themselfs form his false teachings. People like Russ Croco who 1 has a big heart for people and still atends RLc hopping for a change.
I have to ask of all the elders how can you sit back and remain silent to the abuse of God's word? how can you tollorate the false teachings? Tom Kimball & Matt Warrner how can you guys tolorate seeing all these victiums??

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Escapee07
I didn't want to call RLC a cult either. I still hesistate. However when I read the definition of cult or the practices of a cult I can't help but see cult in bright red letters over RLC.

Kind of a general observation, please correct me if this seems off. I noticed that the people who actually accepted Christ and grew up in the relationship with him at RLC, those who have had no background in "church" history are the ones who seem to struggle with the idea that these core issues stem from false teaching of leadership. I know that I was connected to a church before RLC and my parents had knowledge of Christ before RLC. There was a foundation in Christ outside of RLC's influence. I say this because it makes me wonder if that is why it is hard for some to see through the lies and false teachings clearly.....
...Is what I am trying to get at making any sense?

FREEJOY;
Justin and Manderly, I want to thank you for finally posting. Justin, I really appreciate your humble spirit. When I met with you recently, I did not here arrogence as you once said you so struggled with. I see a changed man. You both have been through some shit! I applaud you for persevering and standing upright. Yes, Mandy, you too. You still faught and your back! Your testimony seems so real and to home. I felt so many of the similar things. A year and a half before I left I felt really discouraged and DEPRESSED! Yes, Depressed. Know one knew it. I hid it because I had people to lead. But, I felt alone, sad much of the time and downright bummed out.

Recently, though it has been amazing, I have been feeling discouraged a little again. I don't know if it is an attempt of the enemy or just because SO MANY of my brothers and sisters are in pain. These stories hurt. I know God is at work though and for this, I can rest. I will tell you all of this.... I am encouraged with all of your testimonies and am being healed too. Though I feel discouragment, the truth is I feel hope as well. It's wierd to have both feelings. I am encouraged to see many of you being healed.

Jen, i quote you, "I so badly want that healing to take place for all those who have been hurt, have been decieved, and have loved to a fault. But, I know that it is only God and time that can provide that. Know that I do pray for those of you I know have been hurt, and for those who do not yet know that they are being hurt.
Jen

I totally agree with you on this. This is why I feel this weight that I feel. I just will not allow the enemy to win.

TO EVERYONE ELSE: Thank you for your responses so far to my question:

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Deja Vu
I have a question for all of the readers:

For those of you who have been healed, what helped you get to that place?

For those of you who are still going through the process, what is helping you get through this time and helping you get healed of your hurts and emotions?

-Ryan-

Bless you all for now. Please keep with the responses. Its good!

-Ryan-

this post is to the former dean of studients (Ann)
We know that the Bible is the word of God and I believe you would agree with statement today. We can all read that God hates divorce. So I begg of you to considder your alleginces to Tony vs. your husband. For the sake of the children that God blessed you and your Husband with not Tony! Ann renounce the unholy spiritual soul ties you have put between you and God. Cut off all communication with Tony & Rose and RLc that goes for Tonys new golden boy (Spiritual Son) Andy!!!!
I don't want to see your family scared as one of Tonys sacrifices.

I want you to know your husband is a true warrior for the Gospil of Jesus Christ! and he is a hero of the faith. unfortunatly Tony has tried to dishonor him publicly and privately and you have fallen a victium of this disrespect.

please retturn to your first love and friendship.

I love you guys and I cair about your futcher.

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FantasticVoyage
Nicole and Karen: I really appreciate your willingness to expose who you were and who you are. It always amazes me to see that there were people hurting just like me, sitting just a few feet away (or on stage!) and I never knew.

Little testimony: The first time I came to Christ I was about 12 years old, alone in my bedroom. At first I was angry with God, I couldn't sleep for several nights in a row because of a tickle in my throught keeping me up at night. I asked why he made me suffer like that, He didn't ever experience what I was going through so how could he torture me with this. Then WONDER OF WONDERS, he reminded me of the cross and I was humbled and fearful that God would be angry at me for what I had just accused him of. I prayed and asked for forgiveness. During that time in my life PAX tv had late night Christian Music Videos and I watched that show consistantly. Well one night I was watching a video of a Women of Faith service and a bunch of woman were up there leading worship. I was sooo moved, Jesus had used worship music to speak to me and move my heart closer to him. I knew from that moment that my desire was to be a part of the worship ministry. I started to go to Elk Grove Community Church, as it was called at the time, I was about 15 years old. I joined Brigades and Jon Richards was leading worship. Over time I realized I wanted to be on that mans worship team. I loved the times of worship. I was told by someone on the team at the time that he was not looking to add members so I was discouraged and didn't talk to Jon about it, yet the desire to serve in that capacity was strong. Fast forward 4 1/2 years later at a Gate service, there was an anouncement that if you were interested in serving in the Gate worship ministry then you could talk to Jon. I walked right up to him and said, I want to join. I was on stage the next sunday night.
ALL OF THAT TO SAY THIS>
As much as I thoroughly loved serving on the worship team, about 3-6 months into my time on the team is when I started to question things that were going on. It was through worship ministry that I saw all the false teaching lived out. I COULD NOT believe what I was seeing. I was appalled and anytime I said anything that reflected what I was feeling, it was percieved as jealousy and I got dirty looks. Then it got to the point when I would start to question myself. I couldn't possibly understand any of the things going on. I was not in SOMA and I was not close to the leadership. I was told to ask people to explain it to me. Anytime someone explained it to me it made me feel even more confused.
I thank God for my time on the Worship team for 2 reasons, He helped me to live out a dream ( one he is continuing to let me see fulfilled) and Secondly, Because it was my time there that helped me see how screwed up the church I was attending was.

Bill & Jen and Justin & Manderly: You guys are awesome. Out of all the couples at the church that I got the priviledge to be around as a youth and young adult you guys, where the most awesome. Both couples have been a source of good times and good memories. Love you!!! i am so glad that all of you have moved on to better places for your healing.

FantasticVoyage,
You have come so far in your healing. I did believe that if I'm not moving forward I'm going backwards. The ultra progressing did usually mean mowing people over. I am slowly seeing clearly, but your right there are years of unraveling to be undone. Thank you for your love and support. I too would enjoy spending time together. I have felt pretty crappy about people in general lately, sorry, I am really messed up, when it comes to trusting and loving with my whole heart. I find it hard to not see my years at RLC as a big fat waste of time, loving people that don't give a crap about you hurts. But I guess that is who Jesus is huh? I am positive that he does not consider loving people that don't care about him a waste of time. Thank you, Andrea,

IserveoneGod,
Thanks for sharing Jen, your words and thoughts have been helpful to me. I can relate to the words you wrote, I too have loved to a fault. Sad huh? How can people be so cold? I hate selfish agendas and fake personas!! I hope that someday I can let go. Thanks for praying, keep up the good fight.

Kevin,
I am sorry that you have had to endure such hardship. I beleive that you are destined for great things, your heart is huge! I wish that life wasn't so complicated. I am grateful to God for the love and peace he shows to you. I like the real Kevin best!! Thank you for sharing your heart.

Love, Heidi



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2008 12:22AM by HMajewski.