I was just reminded by some very good friends
"Always keep in mind that the battle is the Lords the church is His bride and that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and spiritiual wickedness in high places"

THIS IS A TIME TO PRAY!

Where I'm at I keep hearing the sound of Thunder over the top of head. I was reminded that God is is in control...he is just rearanging things and cleaning house.

Ryan, Matt & Braveheart,

I echo your sentiments and I say yes and amen! Since leaving I have not forgotten my brothers and sisters in Christ. I will continue to lift them up in prayer.

Braveheart, Wow! That really moved me. It was very encouraging to hear you say those words.

Quote

"I also believe we are the ones who can go out and bring back the ones who have been abandonded used up and disregarded. To go out and find the ones who have given up on trusting God."

This to me is really the only reason I am here on this forum. To be an encouragment to others on here, to bring restitution where it is needed and to RUN AFTER the scattered sheep that have left this specific sheep pen. Some have already found other pastures where there are"GENUINE" shepherds caring for them-PRAISE GOD for that. Others have found freedom in "open pastures" where God is walking with them and councils them (this is not to say that God is not counciling those in other "pens"), and some have scattered to open fields where they feel alone and scared and unsure who God is anymore. The wolves are looking to encroach on there land and consume every bit of hope that they may have left. shepherds want to bring them in, but because of past abuse, they do not trust the shepherds.

I fall into probably the second category, with a tendency towards the latter. I will say this though.... It helps me when I focus on helping others. It invites God care and watch out for me and to be my REAR gaurd. It brings healing to my heart.

Isaiah 58:6-
Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.

9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,

10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday.

11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.

12 Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins
and will raise up the age-old foundations;
you will be called Repairer of Broken Walls,
Restorer of Streets with Dwellings.

Thank you all for your willingness to pray…

Thank you Braveheart for you words that hit me as well…

God… open the eyes and hearts of the elders at RLC, expose that which is destructive and weed out that which damages your children…

God you know each and every one of us, you have known us from our conception and you have known every step that we would take… I thank you that you do not forget your sheep nor do you discard them to the wolves but rather you leave the 99 to find the one… today I stand with those that have been discarded, hurt and disbanded yet at the same time I stand with those whom you have began to mend and revive… with these people I lift up my voice and I humbly lay down my offences in an attempt to catch your ear… I ask that you would be with the elders and leaders of RLC and that you would bring about the change that you desire… I ask that you would break down walls that blind and that you would open the eyes of all who you have appointed for this time… we ask for justice God, but not our own justice your justice, we ask for wisdom, but not our idea of what they should understand but what you want to reveal to them… yet in all of this you know we ask that what has not been built by your hand at RLC would fall, that you God would destroy every false teaching, you would open the eyes of every blinded leader and that you would disprove the lies that ensnare RLC… let that thunder roll and let your enemies be scattered that liberation and truth would rise at Radiant Life Church…


… and let every watchmen sound the alarm, let them tell what they have seen…

I have not posted here before, but, have read for quite some time. i have been waiting for the holy spirit to prompt me with the right words to speak. i guess now is the right time. iknow all of your stories, i have experienced much of what everone else has. My husband and I were at RLC for a little over 8 yrs. and watched it go from elk grove community church, where i believed there was true and correct teaching, and loving families who wanted to grow in fellowship with God and other believers, to Rlc, where the focus became a numbers game(how many can we say were saved today), and full of idol worship. I include myself in this. My family was very connected, and were in one of the"inner circles". We were discipled by Tom and Michele for many years, and became their spiritual children for one day. We led a marriage group, a gate group, a small group and did all of the things we thought we were supposed to do to gain favor with God, but, all we were doing was trying to gain favor with men.
My womb was opened while attending RLC not once, but three times while being there, and instead of fully giving glory to God, I found ourselves thinking it happend because of where we were. We grew in some excellent relationships, and some not so excellent. As of about 2 weeks ago, I thought that the reason nobody ever called to ask us why we left, was because the relationships we made were not real, but, I have come to learn that when we left, Tom and Michele told those close to us that we had walked away from the church, and God, and that we didnt want anyone there to contact us. Completely untrue! We had so many people that we loved and left behind, because we didnt want to called divisive, which is exactly what we were being called. Fortuatly, God has called most of those people away from RLC in his own time.
We have been gone from there for over 3 1/2 yrs and I have to say for those who are in a place of sadness or bitterness, you can be healed. God has broght much restoration, and healing to my family, we are healthy and functioning as a family who love our God deeply, and do not depend on anyone fully anymore, except for God and our family. We still have scars that are pretty deep, but, know that God will erase those also.
We believe that the church does need prayer deeply, thank you Ryan and Matt for bringing this point, because the only way for restoration to happen is for God to deal with the leadership in his own way. Thank you all for posting your thoughts and feelings and allowing this to be a place where those who have been hurt can come and be vulnerable, and know that there are others who have experienced the same things, and can be lifted up in prayer.
I have so many things to say, and not enough time to say them all.
Jen J

Jen (I serve one God), thank you, thank you and thank you for sharing. I saw your hubby a few months ago and I had a lot of joy to see him. I did not look as he reciprocated the same joy. I knew that others were hurt and that I must have hurt people to. At the time I saw him, I had not left yet but was on my way out and could not wait for the time when our relationship could be restored. I really did love him but it seemed that since I was still connected and you guys were not, our relationship would never be the same. How sad huh? It's sad that this is the same damn thing that has happened with so many people. To what it is worth: Please let him know I am sorry for any wrong doings that I may have done to him or you or anyone else that you saw me do them to. I am hopeful that we can be restored.

I am grateful for your post here today. You two were really committed ones and I knew the crazy things that happened to you. Bill tried telling me and I was too damn blind and ignorant to listen. Your words on here today and in the future will be of great help to others. Once again, God will bring all things to light in his timing and ONE BY ONE he is rescuing his sheep. Even now, things are coming out of darkness and into his wonderful light. I have much more to say about what is happening but I am not able to at this moment. Just pray. I right timing, we will all know.

I believe we are in the midst of seeing a great intersection with the Holy Spirit. It has been in my spirit for some time now. I wrote MArtin Scott the other day. For those of you who do not know, he is a prophet that spoke POWERFUL words at RLC in 2003. I spoke things about me that were right on and to this day. keep unveiling itself. Anyhow, I asked for his insight and prayers for our current condition and for the things I have been sensing in the WEst regarding the church. He wrote back this: (please note the bold letters)
________________________________

Martin

Quote

"Many thanks for the email and including me in on what is happening. It is always so sad to read such aspects. I have not had any connection with the church since the time mentioned in the email - 2003 I think.

It does sadden me.

On a wider front the need for the church to be purged in these days of authoritarianism, control etc. The call of this time is to see the body released - what amazing results would take place if the body was released.

It is very difficult to know how to respond personally. There is so little that can be done - beyond prayer - for the situation itself. Make the release, encouragement of the body our goal, and we will see a shift.

I have found that in the Saul / David type of analogy that God is not quick to remove Saul as David holds the key to the issue of timing. We must focus on what is coming and what is rising.

Really happy to pursue this further (Ryan) if that is helpful.

Thanks for your honesty and vulnerability.
Martin
***************

My Thoughts........

MAKE THE RELEASE! (Being done!)
ENCOURAGEMENT OF THE BODY OUR GOAL! (Being done!)
AND WE WILL SEE A SHIFT! ( Its beginning! We will see a shift and I believe that it will invite God finally, to be our authority, out King, our God.)

I hope this encourages you all. BTW: Martin Scott will be a Family Christian Center in Orangevale on September 5th if you are all interested.

-Ryan-

Hey everyone! I was encouraged by a brother today to post this again for so many that are new on here now. This was my first post back in July. If any of you who have not read this before and have further things to add, whether be it publically or by PM, I am willing to face it. Bless you all in your journey and thank you for coming out and exposing yourselves.

In Christ alone,
Ryan Lazalier

POSTED JULY 9th of 2008

Quote
Deja Vu
Before I respond, I would like to let all the readers know who I am and a little about my background if I may.

My name is Ryan Lazalier. I am the Ryan L. that “whatajoke” speaks about. When he says, “About people giving babies away, sharing ring things, kids calling their parents filthy rags and leaving, people in leadership amassing their own followings, competition among church members, lack of leadership accountability, lack of fiscal accountability or responsibility, tony and brandon and ryan and paul and michael and anyone else worship, the churches contribution to failed relationships, business deals gone wrong, etc, etc, etc. Discipleship gone very very wrong.” And… “I do realize there are exaggerations on the postings but for even the exagerrations there are some basis for the claim. For example---Pastor tony having concubines and affairs, probably exagerration. Pastor tony acting inappropriately arondyong women---probably not. My spouse was so blown away at seeing the godly married men in the church with their hands on other women--- massages, etc. Ryan L was a big one. all the young girls clamor around him. His rubbing and touching etc. Absolutely not appropriate for a godly married man, i don't care what you say.

I have not attended Radiant Life for about 2 and a half months now. I did not leave RLC, but simply stopped going. It was time for me to leave. After coming from many angles of Religion, including coming out of Mormonism, I am astonished with the clevorness of Satan. I was lured back into his grip and he used me as an instrument of hurt for others. However, I really do not want to waste my time,energy and and spirit on being hurt all the time and bitter. So I chose to leave with a mindset to be of support to others as I now redefine who I really am and who God really is. For now, I have to trust God in healing those I hurt and healing my heart as well. What I will strive to do in future postings, is to not focus on the individuals or to slander anyone, but on the true heart of the real issue.

Much to “whatajokes” credit and to add to his postings, I have participated in wrong doings that go beyond those he stated above. I have led others astray through forms of discipleship and other teaching settings. I have passed down oppressive phillosophies that only caused some if not many others to wonder down depressive paths. I have directed peoples courses and took the position of God at times. I have preached the Gospel out of selfish intent and out of a desire to please man. May Gods mercy and forgiveness be on me and on those I preached to for that. I have waisted a lot of time and deep heartache trying to please “man” and trying to perfect my flesh. I had almost lost my true nature as “son” to my Glorious Father in heaven.

TO ALL WHO READ THIS and to ALL WHO I HAVE PERSONALLY HURT OR LED ASTRAY, I AM DEEPLY SORRY! I gave you what I began to believe in. My desire was to do good but I did more harm than good. I NEVER TAUGHT OUT OF A DESIRE TO DO HARM! I LOVE GOD AND TRUELY LOVE PEOPLE! However, I gave you emptiness and put burdens on you that were not yours to carry. I am confident that God will restore it all. I am confident that God will destroy this Spirit of religion that slithers its way into righteous mens and womans lives.

Whatajoke, whomever you are, are right by much of what you say and noticed through the years. For that I am grieved. Please forgive me.

Jen

Hello!!! And thanks for your post… don’t have a ton of time to post but I wanted to let you know its really helpful to others…. Your story is nuts and your right I was personally told of you and your relatives that you did not want to be contacted and that you were trying to take others with you.. ”dangerous”… I am sorry I ever believed that and I have had the opportunity to apologize to your fam but to you and Bill… really I am sorry… and again thank you for your post… I can validate it and I know it will help other people on their way out.

Thank you Ryan and Matt for your apologies. Though I dont feel that is necessary for you to apologize. I can understand your feelings of needing to. Im sure that there are many people we need to apologize to for either leading them in a direction that looked alot like worshipping man instead of God, or making anyone feel guilty or condemned for not attending prayer, or a group, or a dinner ect. So, I do apologize to anyone that I may have personally hurt. Not to excuse the behavior, but, we were doing what we were taught, what we thought was right. We were being good little sheep. Please know that guilt is one of the biggest ways that RLC uses to keep you under their thumb. remember, there is no condemnation in Jesus Christ. So, if you are feeling guilt or condemnation, it is not from God.

Hello, everyone.

I have been in exodus from RLC for a little over 2 years now. I have read this forum from time-to-time for over a year now. I have hesitated to write, as Jen wrote above, because I was waiting for the right time to feel released to do it. I don't know if my words will be of much use to anyone, as my sentiments have been written over and over on the last 20 pages or so, in others' words. As we all know, our testimony can be powerful, and while I will try to be succinct, it probably won't happen, so here goes...

I attended RLC for about 7 years. I had many great experiences there. I met some awesome people, really turned my life around, met my husband, learned things about myself that I never would've taken the time to find out. I can honestly say that my first couple years there were great- the word that comes to mind is "pure." I was simply wanting to please the Lord. I don't recall a certain moment where things changed, but I do remember fighting with myself often. Pretty much every night before I went to sleep I would run through a checklist of things that I hadn't done that day. No matter how much I prayed or repented or gave or read, I rarely felt at peace with God, always believing that I should be and could be doing more, more, more-- better wife, better friend, better ministry leader, better housemate, better disciplee, better discipler, make better attempts at becoming a "true daughter of the King" through relationship with a spiritual father. I failed on all accounts.

I had what I call my first "real" conversation with a friend of mine who also attended RLC, just over 2 years ago. I remember us whispering as we talked, questioning all kinds of things one night, as we sat in a living room, not attending the Gap, justifying why we didn't want to go, feeling guilty because we really didn't want to go but knew that's what the "spiritual" people did. We were so afraid that lightning would strike us any moment because we were questioning all that we had been taught and it freaked us out, but we couldn't deny it was so freeing. It was at that point, finally seeing that I WASN'T CRAZY--- ANOTHER PERSON WAS QUESTIONING THE SAME THINGS I WAS!!!--- that I started to hold on to what I thought was wrong, or a little off, instead of just dismiss it as me not having the spiritual aptitude to see beyond myself. After all, we had been taught that we should seek the wisdom of others beyond us, not our peers, because how would they know how to give good advice? Yeah, I can see how that works, but all it really served to do was cut off communication between people going through the same experiences. So anyway, in an effort to share my path of emotional and psychological chaos on my way out of RLC, here is a little list of the progression of my experience. (And on a positive side-note, I really had to think back to how this all worked. I have really attempted to move past all of this and get on with my life. Please believe me and the testimony of others- there is life outside RLC!):
1. Questions - questioning teaching in discipleship, why is the Gap like this?, how it works to submit to a discipler and your husband and your pastor and your potential spiritual parent; never feeling like it matched up with your gut (or previous teaching, etc.)
2. Guilt and Insanity - I must be CRAZY. No one else thinks these thoughts. I am really a slacker of a Christian. Why don't I get it? Why can't I have those "deep, meaningful relationships" everyone else seems to be having? I shouldn't think this way-- I'm evil-- yeah, that's it, I just have wayyyyyyyyy more issues than everyone else, that's why I am not growing in relationship with my authorities. (I could go on and on here. This is just a sampling.)
3. Anger - If the people leading me REALLY loved me as I they say they do, why don't they call? I'm having a shitty day and I can't vent because that's complaining, and it's probably just sin in my life so I need to deal with it. Plus, I will probably get rebuked if I do express my feelings. Plus, I feel like they always have another agenda when they talk to me. I'm so sick of this!!!! Why do I care what "they" think anyway?
4. Pulling Away - This is more of an assessment period than anything. It's like a test to see what happens whey you stop doing EVERYTHING just because you think it's what you have to do.
5. Anger - Basically, you find that no one gives a crap about you if you aren't attending 95% of all the meetings and if you aren't being discipled, aren't giving, (PCARE, anyone?). And it stings.
6. Fear - This is the crappiest part of all. You actually think that if you leave RLC, you won't be blessed, you lose your covering, you won't reach your calling, you didn't have it in you to reach your full potential, you are ALL ALONE. Your future was left at RLC. No one hears God like Tony.
7. Hurt - This is where you realize that no one really gives a crap about you. I received two phone calls from people still connected, checking to see how I was, which is more than I can say for most people who left. Where are all those people you poured your heart out in front of? Where were those leaders who were looking to "do you good"? Where were all those people who pledged to "see you to your full potential"? Where is your maid of honor at your wedding? Your best man?
8. Alone - In reading so many of your posts, I saw that you didn't have anyone to go through your exodus with you. I was blessed to have a friend going through it alongside me, but we were so confused and had no one to ask questions of. Nonetheless, I am grateful that I had someone to bounce my wacky thoughts off and who could do the same with me. We cried a lot, we shook our heads a lot, we were sick to our stomachs an awful lot. Other than that, we really thought no one else felt the way that we did.
9. Release - In reality, when you've stepped back a while and can actually come to a place where you can call a spade a spade, or a cult a cult, or whatever it is, there is a lot of freedom. It took me 1 1/2 years, but I am now able to assess my experiences with a wayyyyyyy more objective viewpoint and I can tell you, it feels sick on the one hand, seeing where you've been and that you were like a tool being used in the wrong way, yet there is great freedom coming to terms with, "I'M NOT CRAZY! GOD ACTUALLY SPARED ME!"
10. Compassion - Now I'm not saying that I am accepting the behavior of those who wronged me and my family and friends, or that I can look past it, but I have come to a place now (give it a couple years if you're like me) where I actually feel sorry for those in leadership at RLC. I think what started out to be a great idea and vision turned into a sick and twisted roller coaster ride. And if there is anyone who can help the sick and twisted, it's God, so I try to rest easy in that.

All that to say, I am grateful to be off the roller coaster. I actually suffer from peace of mind now! I am far from perfect, evermore wanting to have the closeness with Christ that I used to want with all my heart, but I am on my way. I actually hear God now in a way that is unique to me. I have restored relationships with people that I left behind because "they weren't good for me" to spend time with. I am no longer striving for the unattainable but actually resting in assurance that God is my Rock and my Salvation. Not to say that striving isn't good, I think I'm just striving for the right reasons now. I also wanted to say that I still struggle with wanting to read scripture, still filter what I read through teachings I have had, still don't want to pray in a way that I've been taught. I still don't really want to be involved in a church fellowship because I don't trust the agendas of those in leadership. Regardless, I am constantly working through all that and sometimes even get excited at the prospect of having a church family again-- along with my biological family, of course.

I am not saying that any of the issues I have aren't part of just being human, but I do know that since I have left RLC, I actually feel like a better human being. I actually like myself better, and I think others do, too (except those still involved, of course). I never realized how self-righteous I was until I left. I'm surprised no one punched me in the nose or I didn't get flipped off more often. I guess most of the people I affected actually felt sorry for me. And to that, I really wanted to say that I apologize, from the bottom of my heart, to ANYONE that I affected in a negative way; in particular, those I discipled and tried to lead. I can honestly say that I love each and every one of you, always have, and I am sorry if my issues created more issues in your life. May God restore anything I was a part in robbing from you.

I look back now and realize that I have been greatly spared. I never achieved "the ring," rarely was invited over to a pastor's house for Sunday lunch or dinner after Friday Night Worship, never had to deal with the crappiest rejection from a father-figure who put agenda over human relationship and "love," etc. And I am so GRATEFUL!!! I can only speculate as to why things never panned out the way I thought they should, but that is for another time. I am sure I left a whole lot of what I wanted to say out, but hopefully this helps someone out there. I chose the name FantasticVoyage for two reasons: One, the Coolio song reminded me of Kevin Reta and the days of the keyboard and the coffee shop, simply jamming for the Lord! Secondly, I am not going to let this experience rob me of everything. Yes, it sucks going through it, and I have no idea if I'll ever be completely over it, but I know now that God was with me through it all, and that there are people out there who actually want to do good to those they lead. I have met a few of them. It is a voyage that we never know what lurks around the corner, but I am beginning to see that God actually has some good surprises in store, if we just trust Him. If anything, it's taught me that He is the final say.

Sorry if I've bored you.

Peace,

Andrea