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belongs2Him
Miki, I too experienced feelings of not being good enough. I was on the verge of being suicidal and I knew it was time to leave TPC. This was just a couple weeks ago. I still struggle almost daily.

There is so much expected of you at TPC, so much to do, so many areas to "serve". This year alone, I was involved in SOMA, Childrens, VBS, Summer Jubilee. I had to back out of Summer Jubilee and had a panic attack when I had to share that with a leader. It seemed to me like women (and SOMA students) were expected to be these paragons of time management and be able to serve in any and every capacity expected and needed. My kids were missing out on so much time with me because I was always serving. I couldn't do it anymore.

My kids have since commented on the fact that they get more time with me. This is why I'm a mom.

belongs2Him,

I am so sorry for what you are and have gone through. Feeling suicidal and devastated from the inside out is something not many understand. I love our church of 4 1/2 years. I've only been in the hospital twice ~ mostly triggered by TPC. However, I must admit, taking the pills for whatever the reason was, was MY Bad choice! They didn't shove it down my throat.... Hope you feel safe here! ;0) Miki

Miki, you can basically sue anybody, but you need to have money to do so. You also have to devote ALOT of time and energy and be willing to take on endless and sleepless nights as you re-esperience the trauma that brought you to the point of suit. If your stated injury i.e. hospitalization for mental health issues is your claim of harm, you would have to prove you weren't mentally ill prior to turning point attendance. The tp people are so sly with their words and sophisticated in their delivery. Anyone would be hard pressed to win a suit against them. It is better, in my own opinion, to live a good life and know the truth. Let living a life loving your children, husband and God be your reward. At least you were saved from further abuse. The other thing to remember is the lesson's of not listening to the voice of God as we experienced the self doubt of not being good enough etc. Letting his voice be the biggest in our lives is the most important lesson I learned. You will have your own lessons, those were mine.

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tell the truth
Miki, you can basically sue anybody, but you need to have money to do so. You also have to devote ALOT of time and energy and be willing to take on endless and sleepless nights as you re-esperience the trauma that brought you to the point of suit. If your stated injury i.e. hospitalization for mental health issues is your claim of harm, you would have to prove you weren't mentally ill prior to turning point attendance. The tp people are so sly with their words and sophisticated in their delivery. Anyone would be hard pressed to win a suit against them. It is better, in my own opinion, to live a good life and know the truth. Let living a life loving your children, husband and God be your reward. At least you were saved from further abuse. The other thing to remember is the lesson's of not listening to the voice of God as we experienced the self doubt of not being good enough etc. Letting his voice be the biggest in our lives is the most important lesson I learned. You will have your own lessons, those were mine.

Tell The Truth is absolutely right Miki. A law suit does nothing more than reopen old wounds which are then open to more hurt as their lawyers try to pick you apart and discredit you. This battle belongs to the Lord. Let his grace and peace get you through your recovery, because he will do you far better than even the best attorney in the world. No one is going to be given a get out of sin free card over the hurt that has been caused. I know our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ will be far more effective in this matter than an army of lawyers. Listen for the still small voice that says "I am here Miki" and then just curl up in the love and heal -- let the Lord deal with those who have hurt you.

Daughter of Dorcas

Tell the Truth and Daughter of Dorcas,

Thanks for your input. How do I know what you're telling me IS godly wisdom? I don't know either of you. Just wondering.....

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Miki
Tell the Truth and Daughter of Dorcas,

Thanks for your input. How do I know what you're telling me IS godly wisdom? I don't know either of you. Just wondering.....

One way to test what is being told to you is to read God's word, his character of who he is shines through his word, and the holy spirit is with you to "bear witness". Also Godly counseling with someone who can be impartial has helped me, just a thought?

Miki, I know you are like me and walking lightly like we are walking on egg shells. It is understood, given our history with twisted and distorted truths, and other's motives. I have to say on this forum, (which I have been reading since about mid summer from RLC thread) a good majority have been in our shoes. Their input needs to be brought before the Lord and tested and weighed, just like any input from the pulpit. God has told us in the Old testiment and New to test ALL things, we are all fallible, we are human. I do agree with both Tell the Truth and Daughter of Dorcas, our wounds will be ripped wide open again if one seeks our courts to settle our injustices. When I come to a point like this in my life I ask myself am I willing to pay the price for this commitment? The cost to my mental health, daily life, my family's involvement and of course I check in with God and Godly people in my life that I can trust. On the whole I have to say, I sense (my discernment which is battle worn and wary) that most of the people on this forum do speak with knowledge and wisdom. I have used this forum to rebuild my trust in my discernment, when a new blogger comes on I read and pray. So far I have picked up on the ones that are not what they try to be. And RRModerator has blocked the ones that need to go.

Taking Legal Action against TPC seems to have hit something. We as a family are past the name blaming, etc. We are now at "TRUTH". My previous illness has nothing to do with what happened at TPC for 8 1/2 years. May you disagree, I have received counsel and confirmation on Legal Action toward TPC. As the Lord goes before us, I will follow!

I know TPC and their leadership. I know how they operate, how they "twist" words. However, Spiritual Abuse is a common problem and just like physical or any other abuse, do we sit by and let it go? If it were 4 years or even 2 years ago, this is not something I could conquer. MY faith in the Lord has risen 100 folds. And I SAY THIS HUMBLY, it is evident in our family.

Please understand, if the Lord was to say "NO", I'd be the first one to stop! Thank you for all your replies, but lets STOP this subject from here. Thanks! :D

Oh Miki....it's so hard to know what to do. At this point, all I can do is "wait on the Lord". I can't help but think that *somebody* should put a stop to this, and that legal action just might be the thing that gets their attention. On the other hand, I know that I don't have the strength to do it myself. And honestly, I'm not sure that it's the *right* action to take. I know I'm not really helping any, lol. I just wanted you to know that you aren't the only one thinking along those lines, but I know that realistically, for me, that it's not an option, and the caution you've received does seem to be warrented.

oops, didn't see you last reply before I posted....I won't harp on this issue Miki, I promise. :)

Hi Miki, Jael, and Onevoice,

Welcome to the board. We have been where you are. I encourage you that time does heal. God, The Healer, will heal your wounds layer by layer. And before you know it, freedom will come! Your identity can be found in Him! I trust that you are like many of us who lost our identity over time at Turning Point. We became puppets, void of feeling, thought, opinions, or personality. Life through Jesus will return and HE will carry you through this time. My prayers are with you.

I agree with Tell the Truth and Daughter of Dorcas. Let God fight this battle. The Bible specifically calls us not to sue our brother, 1 Cor 6:1-8. The saddest thing is when we see LEADERS of churches suing fellow Christians. This is unbiblical and wrong. Please seek God on this matter and consult the Only True Judge. He will guide your way and every decision. He loves you!!

I also wanted to make a point about the latest topic, depression and Tpc. One thing I noticed immediately at Turning Point when I arrived was the amount of people who I heard personally say they had depression or Manic Depression. The percentage was far greater than the general public.

There is an article that discusses this that might be of interest. Here is a part of it:

Do Cults Produce Mental Disorders?
by Mark Dunlop

Cults promote a belief system which is utopian/idealistic, and also dualistic and bi-polar in nature. Dualistic in that they see the world in terms of two opposite poles, such as good versus evil, the saved and the fallen, the enlightened and the ignorant, etc.

Cult belief systems are also bi-polar in psychological terms, rather like Bi-polar disorder or manic-depression. Cults promote a vision of an ideal 'new self', which members believe they can attain by following the cult teachings. Cult belief systems encourage the aspirant to identify with this imagined ideal new self, and then, from the perspective of this new self, to see their old self as comparatively inferior and flawed. It is ego-utopia or hubris for the new self, and ego-dystonia or shame for the old self.

Believers can experience a sort of religious mania of inspiration, when they are in the hubris phase, identifying with this idealised imaginary new self, with its perfect perception and understanding, etc. They can become addicted to this hubris high, and become dependent on the group and its leadership to validate their spiritual progress and to maintain this inspiration.

There is often a sort of collective arrogance or hubris among established cult members. They see themselves as part of an elite, and look down rather sniffily upon the mores and values of established mainstream institutions.

If members fall out of favour, even temporarily, with the group leadership, or if they begin to doubt if they can achieve the group's ideals, they may experience a sort of religious depression or guilt, over their seeming inability to free themselves from their 'old self', with all its bad habits and weaknesses and lack of faith. This depression reinforces their desire to return to the inspired state, and can reinforce their addiction to the utopian vision of the cult belief system, so there can be a feedback system going on too.
At an extreme, believers fear they will become ill or fall into hell if they leave the group.

All this goes on within a cult members mind. A cult does not control its members by using external coercion. It is the belief system itself which is the primary active agent in cult mind control. The actual controlling of mind is done by the person themselves, as they attempt to discipline their mind and reform their personality, in accordance with the tenets of their new belief system. Effectively, a cult, via its belief system, uses a person's own energy and aspirations against them.

(With) pre-existing issues with self-esteem (don't we all ;) A cult can play on both anxieties and aspirations at the same time. They (or their belief system) can potentially make (one) feel both more guilty about their 'old self' with its normal human weaknesses, and simultaneously inspire with an imaginary idealised vision of a wonderful new self and a new life. Very bi-polar.

If you criticise a cult member, this may just encourage their tendency to see themselves (their old self) as flawed, and may push them further into the cult. If you criticise their church or group, the cult-member will go into cult-self mode and will see your criticisms as tending to confirm the cult's warnings about the outside world and its negative effects. A better approach may be to acknowledge and encourage a cult member's old self, without criticising or threatening the new cult self.



I am in no way suggesting that anyone on here is Manic Depressive. My thought is, being in a controlled and powerless, high expectancy environment can produce severe extremes or depression in a person. Depression often comes through feeling like you have no control over your life or no choice.

Jesus' disciples did not "lose themselves" while being taught under Jesus. Peter remained bold, a leader, strong and Luke stayed serious, intellectual, and analytical. God will restore your true selves in Him whatever that means and where confusion and sadness lies, I pray joy, peace, and clarity will soon reign.

I encourage you, instead of seeing yourselves as "good" or "bad", "successful" or "failure", "chosen" or "lost" we all instead see ourselves as sinners fallen short of the glory of God, dependent on Him and only saved, not by our works or our efforts, but by the saving grace of Our Mighty God, Jesus Christ.

PFJ