Mike's Prosperity Sermon


I felt the need to post this.

What Braveheart has described about the esoteric nature of Turning Point's and Raidant Life's inner circles is exactly what Scripture speaks of when it decries Gnosticism or the spirit of GNOSTICISM--the idea that there is SECRET KNOWLEDGE or an INNER CIRCLE of spirituality that some just aren't able or are unwilling to attain.

Now, this is not explicitly stated at Turning Point. In fact, Mike claims to giggle at such notions. HOWEVER, the spirit of gnosticism is alive and well at Turning Point, whether stated or not, and the ones on the inside love their position and behave in a condescending and superior attitude toward those on the outside. Oh yes, they're "nice" and "helpful" to the spiritual have-nots, but they keep them in their place unless they are willing to give the double honor, toe the line, and buy into all the specifically Turning Point teachings (the ones that make TP superior to all the other churches in the area--"Turning Point DNA," remember that phrase?).

Anyone care to talk about this or to rebut my perspective here? This would make for a good discussion, since I think we've likely seen, been exposed to, or been a part of the workings of the "inner circle" at Turning Point, which by the way, is significantly different than any other inner circle I've seen in churches I've been to. To me, it seems to be more than just an annoying church clique--it's a clique with a sharp edge.

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BraveHeart
BUDDY & PAINFULJOURNEY
GREAT POSTS & FANTASTIC POINTS

THESE FALSE APOSTLES ARE EMBRACING MANY FALSE THEOLOGY'S...

That may be the reason why people like Tony & Mike don't want to have this kind of public discussion with the members of the church!!!

This brings me to another observation that I have seen in the Radiant Life church and we are seeing it mirrored at turning Point Church.
Call it “Esoteric Christianity” or the inner circle as many people have observed here in this blog.

I challenge you to evaluate this next statement.

To believe you are an esoteric is to believe that you are on the inside of something and everyone else is on the outside of it.
The idea of making something purposely complex or creating a pseudo-culture for the purpose of alienating others is what the pseudo-intellectual esoteric does.
They create an environment of the haves and have-nots. They separate into two classes, those who are spiritually enlightened and others who have not arrived to such deeper spiritual meanings and understanding.

Some things are naturally esoteric take brain surgery. Not every has a working understanding of brain surgery or can perform brain surgery. So the person who was studied the practice of brain surgery is naturally esoteric.

Now relate that to historic Christianity, did Jesus create an esoteric attitude or pseudo-culture?
While much like the brain surgeon, I believe we can agree that Jesus was on the inside with his relationship with his heavily father, God.
But did he run around in an esoteric manner, looking down on people, because they were on the outside with God. NO!
In fact His life was to bridge that gap to be the way to the father!

So my question for you is, do you see in esoteric attitude and the leadership in your church?
Are they approachable?
Can they be transparent and honest with you?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 01:58AM by LearningPoint.

Prosperity Gospel or Greed Gospel

Just a few links regarding prosperity theology.



[en.wikipedia.org]

[www.trinityfi.org]

[www.desiringgod.org]

LearningPoint

Yes your right the spirit of GNOSTICISM is alive and thriving at Radiant Life. For Tony the only people who have proven themselves to be totally devoted to his authority and are practicing a life of sacrifice to benefit Tony are invited in to his inter circle. Of course you need to be affluent and or attractive it really helps if you have both.
Tony lives a reclusive life in his 4 car 4,500 sqft house with his Spiritual Daughter Veronica along with his Wife Rose and his children.

According to Tony he accepted Christ at the Crystal Cathedral under the pastoral leadership of Robert Schuller. That's very interesting!

Schuller who preaches and teaches the gospel of Positive Self-image says, “Any analysis of 'sin' or 'evil' or 'demonic influence' or 'negative thinking' or 'systemic evil' or 'antisocial behavior' that fails to see the lack of self-dignity as the core of the problem will prove to be too shallow. … TO BE BORN AGAIN MEANS THAT WE MUST BE CHANGED FROM A NEGATIVE TO A POSITIVE SELF-IMAGE--from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust” (Schuller, Self-Esteem, p. 68).
Or
“Christ is the Ideal One, for HE WAS SELF-ESTEEM INCARNATE” (Schuller, Self-Esteem, p. 135).

The question I need to go back to is by what credentials did Mr. Tony Cunningham become a pastor?
Was he influenced by this Modernist heretic Robert Schuller?

What other Influences does Tony Cunningham embrace?

Here's what it's like to the Tony the false teacher and liar in chief.
You get your lawn service by others FREE
Someone picks up your car, washes it and returns it full of gasoline. FREE
Women in the church do all of your ironing FREE
You get a 1/2 tithe from many of your inner circle - cash - tax FREE
You get a souped up Mustang Cobra FREE
You get a Shelby Mustang FREE
You get an Expedition Lariat with the works package FREE
You get a Harley FREE
You get a street bike FREE
You get a BMW bike FREE
You get a convertible Porsche FREE that his arrogant contemptible son gets to drive
You get loans done for you FREE
You get valuable artwork FREE
You get a six figure salary without having to pay Social Security, Federal or state taxes (yet you drive on the roads and enjoy unprecedented emergency services)
You get fawned over when you say how hard you work
and you get many many other FREEBEES that I have missed
then you get to lecture others about how they are lacking in generosity and need to give more.
Then you get to act smug and arrogant as suck-up elders refuse to believe anything bad about you.
You get to use teaching times and the pulpit to malign those who disagree with you
Must be good --

until the Judgment Day

LearningPoint ~

I think that you bring up a very important point, I'm still discerning how to address it....

I have constructed a reply to you several times now, and always delete it before I post. I have experienced the sting that comes from trying to get too close to the inner circle. I'm not quite sure of what exactly to share or how to share my experience w/out it coming accross as simply angry and bitter.

I will say though, that I've been told, very clearly that I will never be a part of the inner circle, and that there is no reason that anyone in leadership would ever come to me for advice, or support. That I would never be considered a peer. When I tried to work through my hurt and disappointment about this issue, I was told that the reason this hurt me was b/c I had a prideful spirit.

It's not a secret that the inner circle exists. And it's not a secret that it's impenetrable.

Hello

I have heard of several new people leaving turningpoint and it is really sad.

I am wondering if anyone knows the official turningpoint view of this forum. Some people have posted on here saying that TP has order people to not go on here others have siad that they have only suggested. However I have talked to people from tp who say that they read the forum and that there is some good coming from it.
are those people in sin or going against tp policy.


I have also heard people write on this forum, talked to people and heard stories that since leaving tp there friends have rejected them and won't talk to them.

If this does happen I don't think it is turnigpoint's official policy. There are many people who's response to issues they see and hear about at turningpoint is to ignore them. It is painful for them to think that the man they really look up to and the church that has been so important to them could have faults, muchless be destructive. Also they feel they are doing God's work at tp. However when they hear that you left it is very hard for them, and everytime they see you it reminds them there could be something wrong with thier church, somthing they may not be ready to face.

I don't doubt that there are cases of people completely rejecting there friends, but sometime it is just that niether person takes the intiative to reach out to the other.

I would encourage anyone from turningpoint who reads this, if your friend leaves the church to call them up and encourage them. If you are worried about "gossiping," just let them know that you don't want to talk about negative things about the church. (I have agreed to do this with a few friends). It is painful to think that there are people who will be so hurt from leaving the church that they end up disconnecting with God, especially when recieving encouragment from one of there friends may have helped prevent this.

Even if someone leaves tp for the worst reason, God still loves them and wants to use them.

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Northwest
Hello

I have heard of several new people leaving turningpoint and it is really sad.

I am wondering if anyone knows the official turningpoint view of this forum. Some people have posted on here saying that TP has order people to not go on here others have siad that they have only suggested. However I have talked to people from tp who say that they read the forum and that there is some good coming from it.
are those people in sin or going against tp policy.


I have also heard people write on this forum, talked to people and heard stories that since leaving tp there friends have rejected them and won't talk to them.

If this does happen I don't think it is turnigpoint's official policy. There are many people who's response to issues they see and hear about at turningpoint is to ignore them. It is painful for them to think that the man they really look up to and the church that has been so important to them could have faults, muchless be destructive. Also they feel they are doing God's work at tp. However when they hear that you left it is very hard for them, and everytime they see you it reminds them there could be something wrong with thier church, somthing they may not be ready to face.

I don't doubt that there are cases of people completely rejecting there friends, but sometime it is just that niether person takes the intiative to reach out to the other.

I would encourage anyone from turningpoint who reads this, if your friend leaves the church to call them up and encourage them. If you are worried about "gossiping," just let them know that you don't want to talk about negative things about the church. (I have agreed to do this with a few friends). It is painful to think that there are people who will be so hurt from leaving the church that they end up disconnecting with God, especially when recieving encouragment from one of there friends may have helped prevent this.

Even if someone leaves tp for the worst reason, God still loves them and wants to use them.

Northwest,

TP may not have an official *ignore them* policy, but they do have a "let them go" and a "don't chase them" policy. For some, Im sure ignoring is in the interpretation.

Northwest, very good observation.

You are right when you say that it is sad.

I think it might not be "official" in the sense that Pastor Mike openly tells people to avoid the forum (which may happen), but what we known for sure is that he ignores the claims made on it.

Which seems to be known for sure is that people don't like talking about this subject. It is not a pleasant one to discuss. One of which explicitly calls him out, as a liar or at least deceived, a false teacher, a false apostle and in it for himself. It is not a pleasant thing to hear. It is even harder to believe, remember forum to be graceful in dealing with friends, family who still attend. Go in with no agenda, love and remember who they are as people, not who they follow.

A long struggle of mine has been trying to wrap my mind around, if my friends loved and respected me would they not talk to me why I left the church? I am reaching out to them...then why won't they ask me questions? Why God am I "blessed" with this knowledge?

It has occurred to me that the knowledge is a blessing, although I still don't like it. I rather understand than be going to a destructive church. I am to share it, in a loving fashion, an especially on this forum. Our friends and family who
read this will have an easier time recieveing this by continuing sharing what happened to you, what is going on, and how God is working in your life and how He is healing you.

I believe if people know our hearts and see we aren't bitter, that we too love God. That they might come to know that what we say is true, that we are not trying to destroy Mike. Rather that we wish he would come and repent. Not to prove that he is a false apostle. This forum is judged, if we like it or not, lets present something that will be received well by outsiders reading it.

Thank you
Forgiveness 101



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 11:31AM by Forgiveness_101.

WOW
I don't know who this girl is but sit back and listen to her preach!!!!

FALSE APOSTLES!