Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
LearningPoint
()
Date: September 06, 2009 05:20AM
Well said, Marty! Thank you for taking the time to articulate your experience like that.
Marty's post put me in mind of a passage from 1 Corinthians 1. If you have time to contemplate the content of this passage in light of your church experiences and experiences with various individuals who call themselves Christians (and Marty's post brings the truth of this passage home), you'll be reminded again not to lean on your own fleshly understanding to perceive the things of God:
The Wisdom of God (NASB)
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
Marty's post put me in mind of a passage from 1 Corinthians 1. If you have time to contemplate the content of this passage in light of your church experiences and experiences with various individuals who call themselves Christians (and Marty's post brings the truth of this passage home), you'll be reminded again not to lean on your own fleshly understanding to perceive the things of God:
The Wisdom of God (NASB)
18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE,
AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE.”
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Why bother?
()
Date: September 06, 2009 06:34AM
This note is from a Pastor friend of mine down in California. He is an incredible man of God who takes his role of a "Pastor" very very seriously. I have known him for about 10 years now and he is very genuine. He wrote this letter a couple of years ago to any Pastor that would read it. This letter is not to bash TPC or anyone else, it is a letter of wisdom and a wake up call to all of us that call ourselves a Pastor...enjoy.
"PASTOR is a very special word to me, full of images of tender care and nurturing. It is a word that connotes warm relationships and heartfelt feelings. There is nothing plastic or insensitive about the Pastor. He is a people person, balanced in mind, heart, will, and touching others. Because he cares, we can trust‑and even hope‑that we can become a little more like the Good Shepherd ourselves.
There are many Godly people in the Kingdom, but not all of them are Pastors. Many have fine qualities to admire and emulate. Some have such consistent discipline and faith that we feel aware (and often ashamed) of our own spiritual poverty when we are in their presence. But they are not Pastors.
There are those who are focused on the Holiness of God. Too few Christians are truly overwhelmed with the vast Holiness of God ‑ His awesome power and His terrible purity. Fewer still desire to seek and know those qualities in Him. We are busy with our own puny lives, and if the truth be known, we almost always value our own comfort more than we value His Holiness. There are men and women in the Kingdom who honestly desire to see His Holiness (and hope to become more holy) more than anything else in the world. But these people are not Pastors. They may be monks. They may be mystics. They may have wisdom beyond their years. They may be truly righteous in their affairs. But they are not Pastors.
There are those who are consumed by the Word. They hunger to study and lift every nuance of every proposition and preposition in the Book. They seek to understand the universal verities and the microscopic details that make His Kingdom true. They wrestle with ways to integrate all of this knowledge into systems that make sense and bring order to a chaotic world. But these people are not Pastors. They may be scholars. They may be theologians. They may even be Pharisees. But they are not Pastors.
There are great Preachers and Teachers. They are able to speak the Truth in ways that people can grasp. They are masters at motivating the masses. They are elegant in expressing emotion. They are found on the great stages of the world. But they are not Pastors. They may be powerful prophets. They may be prolific Pulpit pounders. They may even be on TV. They may only be pretenders. But they are not Pastors.
There are great Managers. They construct great plans to accomplish great deeds for the Kingdom. They know how to get things done. Prolific producers, they often lead others to accomplish more than they ever dreamed possible. But they are not Pastors. They may have monuments to their memory. They may be a pillar of progress. They may be the symbol of structure. But they are not Pastors.
Pastors are not alien to any of these qualities. But they are not absorbed by them. The one who is focused on Holiness often leaves humanity behind. They may become too heavenly-minded to be any earthly good. They are often perceived as untouchable, unreachable, un-relatable. For the Pastor, holiness is not an escape. He seeks holiness for the strength it brings him to heal an unholy world. He seeks God's character to find the courage to complete his calling. He looks for Holiness because it's the source of Love when his own love is used up.
Pastors can be scholars. They know the Word. They know what it says, and even more, they know what it means. But scholarship is often an escape, as well. Words and ideas are safer than people and feelings. Ideas can always be manipulated and managed until they suit us. People cannot. Jesus did not die for the truth. He was the Truth. He died for people. Scholars sometimes forget this. Pastors do not.
Pastors should be able to preach and teach. They have every desire to feed their flock with holy meat, life‑giving bread, and refreshing water. But pastors do not get lost in the power of the pulpit. They do not find their validation in their authority or their effectiveness to move the masses. They do not find their esteem in their eloquence, nor do they guarantee salvation in their sermons. Pastors are living sermons. They know the gospel is best communicated with working hands, aching hearts, and a caring presence.
Pastors should manage their flock. There are things that need to be done. There is order and peace and progress to be made. But Pastors do not confuse being efficient with being effective. People remain more important than programs. Service to God is not slavery to structure. Too often, management becomes a fortress to protect the church. And while nothing evil may get in, too often, nothing healing gets out. Pastors value freedom more than safety. They prefer the open field and the flowing stream. They would rather risk being vulnerable in the open, than suffer stagnation behind sealed walls. Pastors would rather move, and make mistakes, than be bound to a perfect system.
The Pastor is a shepherd. Above all, he seeks to be like the Great Shepherd in every way. He wants more than the robes of righteousness, the depths of discernment, the gift of eloquence, or the mastery of management. He seeks the mind of Christ, the heart of Christ, the character of Christ. He wants to offer Grace and Freedom and Healing as fully as it was offered. He wants to love as God loved ; deeply, completely, sacrificially. Not for reward in this world or the next. Not for the glory of men or of angels. Our joy is to be like Him. Our meat is to do His work. Our service is in expressing our gratefulness. Our joy is to help others fall in love with Him. There is no greater expression of faith than to live as a Pastor."
"PASTOR is a very special word to me, full of images of tender care and nurturing. It is a word that connotes warm relationships and heartfelt feelings. There is nothing plastic or insensitive about the Pastor. He is a people person, balanced in mind, heart, will, and touching others. Because he cares, we can trust‑and even hope‑that we can become a little more like the Good Shepherd ourselves.
There are many Godly people in the Kingdom, but not all of them are Pastors. Many have fine qualities to admire and emulate. Some have such consistent discipline and faith that we feel aware (and often ashamed) of our own spiritual poverty when we are in their presence. But they are not Pastors.
There are those who are focused on the Holiness of God. Too few Christians are truly overwhelmed with the vast Holiness of God ‑ His awesome power and His terrible purity. Fewer still desire to seek and know those qualities in Him. We are busy with our own puny lives, and if the truth be known, we almost always value our own comfort more than we value His Holiness. There are men and women in the Kingdom who honestly desire to see His Holiness (and hope to become more holy) more than anything else in the world. But these people are not Pastors. They may be monks. They may be mystics. They may have wisdom beyond their years. They may be truly righteous in their affairs. But they are not Pastors.
There are those who are consumed by the Word. They hunger to study and lift every nuance of every proposition and preposition in the Book. They seek to understand the universal verities and the microscopic details that make His Kingdom true. They wrestle with ways to integrate all of this knowledge into systems that make sense and bring order to a chaotic world. But these people are not Pastors. They may be scholars. They may be theologians. They may even be Pharisees. But they are not Pastors.
There are great Preachers and Teachers. They are able to speak the Truth in ways that people can grasp. They are masters at motivating the masses. They are elegant in expressing emotion. They are found on the great stages of the world. But they are not Pastors. They may be powerful prophets. They may be prolific Pulpit pounders. They may even be on TV. They may only be pretenders. But they are not Pastors.
There are great Managers. They construct great plans to accomplish great deeds for the Kingdom. They know how to get things done. Prolific producers, they often lead others to accomplish more than they ever dreamed possible. But they are not Pastors. They may have monuments to their memory. They may be a pillar of progress. They may be the symbol of structure. But they are not Pastors.
Pastors are not alien to any of these qualities. But they are not absorbed by them. The one who is focused on Holiness often leaves humanity behind. They may become too heavenly-minded to be any earthly good. They are often perceived as untouchable, unreachable, un-relatable. For the Pastor, holiness is not an escape. He seeks holiness for the strength it brings him to heal an unholy world. He seeks God's character to find the courage to complete his calling. He looks for Holiness because it's the source of Love when his own love is used up.
Pastors can be scholars. They know the Word. They know what it says, and even more, they know what it means. But scholarship is often an escape, as well. Words and ideas are safer than people and feelings. Ideas can always be manipulated and managed until they suit us. People cannot. Jesus did not die for the truth. He was the Truth. He died for people. Scholars sometimes forget this. Pastors do not.
Pastors should be able to preach and teach. They have every desire to feed their flock with holy meat, life‑giving bread, and refreshing water. But pastors do not get lost in the power of the pulpit. They do not find their validation in their authority or their effectiveness to move the masses. They do not find their esteem in their eloquence, nor do they guarantee salvation in their sermons. Pastors are living sermons. They know the gospel is best communicated with working hands, aching hearts, and a caring presence.
Pastors should manage their flock. There are things that need to be done. There is order and peace and progress to be made. But Pastors do not confuse being efficient with being effective. People remain more important than programs. Service to God is not slavery to structure. Too often, management becomes a fortress to protect the church. And while nothing evil may get in, too often, nothing healing gets out. Pastors value freedom more than safety. They prefer the open field and the flowing stream. They would rather risk being vulnerable in the open, than suffer stagnation behind sealed walls. Pastors would rather move, and make mistakes, than be bound to a perfect system.
The Pastor is a shepherd. Above all, he seeks to be like the Great Shepherd in every way. He wants more than the robes of righteousness, the depths of discernment, the gift of eloquence, or the mastery of management. He seeks the mind of Christ, the heart of Christ, the character of Christ. He wants to offer Grace and Freedom and Healing as fully as it was offered. He wants to love as God loved ; deeply, completely, sacrificially. Not for reward in this world or the next. Not for the glory of men or of angels. Our joy is to be like Him. Our meat is to do His work. Our service is in expressing our gratefulness. Our joy is to help others fall in love with Him. There is no greater expression of faith than to live as a Pastor."
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Saddened
()
Date: September 06, 2009 11:15AM
A few weeks ago while current and former members of Turning Point Church prayed in Comeford Park for the truth to be brought to light and for God to protect and vindicate his good and faithful servant from a personal and professional attack on her character, Mike Villamor had his paid character assassins use circumstantial evidence to slander and defame the professional and personal character of a former and long-time TPC Elder and Staffer. Now that this former staffer has been cleared and her good name is restored with the charges and insinuations being completely dropped, why is there not another meeting being called to apologize for the egregious actions of Mike Villamor, Jeff Barnes, and Ron Olin.
Slander and defamation of character are actions that the Word of God speaks on repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments.
Leviticus 19:16 where God commands Moses to tell his people “Do NOT go about spreading slander among your people.”
Psalm 15:2-4 answers the question of “Who can dwell in the Lord’s sanctuary?” with “He who speaks the truth from his heart and who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong, and casts no slur on his fellowman
Psalm 54 the psalmist implores God to have “evil recoil on those who slander” and that God “destroy them in his faithfulness”
Proverbs 10:18 says “He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool.”
Lecturing the Pharisees on “clean and unclean”, Jesus says “the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ “
Romans 1, Paul tells us that God “gives over” idolaters to all sorts of wickedness, including becoming gossips and slanderers.
1 Corinthians 5 and 6 Paul tells us not even to associate with slanderers and that they shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.
1 Peter, Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3 tell us that we must rid ourselves of slander and malice from our lips if we are to walk with Christ.
Titus 3 Paul tells Titus to remind people to “be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.”
1 Corinthians tells me that I was right to walk away from TPC. 1 Peter, Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3 tell me what happened in the meeting was wrong and just another ploy by scared humans trying to protect what little they have left and the expense of a good and Godly woman. Titus 3 and Proverbs tell me that I was right to question and discern truth for myself because Mike Villamor and the TPC Elders are incapable of doing so and were acting out of questionable if not immoral purposes. Mike Villamor owes the person he has wronged an apology. Each Elder and Deacon of TPC owes the wronged person an apology for not reigning in their out of control senior pastor. They made a public charge, but choose to withdraw the accusations silently. Let them show true humility and humbleness by making a public apology in front of those who were present for the presentation of the false allegations in their kangaroo court. Let them confess their sin to their remaining congregation and repent.
Slander and defamation of character are actions that the Word of God speaks on repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments.
Leviticus 19:16 where God commands Moses to tell his people “Do NOT go about spreading slander among your people.”
Psalm 15:2-4 answers the question of “Who can dwell in the Lord’s sanctuary?” with “He who speaks the truth from his heart and who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander on his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong, and casts no slur on his fellowman
Psalm 54 the psalmist implores God to have “evil recoil on those who slander” and that God “destroy them in his faithfulness”
Proverbs 10:18 says “He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool.”
Lecturing the Pharisees on “clean and unclean”, Jesus says “the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean.’ “
Romans 1, Paul tells us that God “gives over” idolaters to all sorts of wickedness, including becoming gossips and slanderers.
1 Corinthians 5 and 6 Paul tells us not even to associate with slanderers and that they shall NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.
1 Peter, Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3 tell us that we must rid ourselves of slander and malice from our lips if we are to walk with Christ.
Titus 3 Paul tells Titus to remind people to “be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.”
1 Corinthians tells me that I was right to walk away from TPC. 1 Peter, Ephesians 4 and Colossians 3 tell me what happened in the meeting was wrong and just another ploy by scared humans trying to protect what little they have left and the expense of a good and Godly woman. Titus 3 and Proverbs tell me that I was right to question and discern truth for myself because Mike Villamor and the TPC Elders are incapable of doing so and were acting out of questionable if not immoral purposes. Mike Villamor owes the person he has wronged an apology. Each Elder and Deacon of TPC owes the wronged person an apology for not reigning in their out of control senior pastor. They made a public charge, but choose to withdraw the accusations silently. Let them show true humility and humbleness by making a public apology in front of those who were present for the presentation of the false allegations in their kangaroo court. Let them confess their sin to their remaining congregation and repent.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
buddy
()
Date: September 07, 2009 01:55AM
!!!Radiant Life Church is DEAD!!!
You ask why? How could this have happened?
Because of the False Prophet, False Apostle and False Pastor
Mr. Tony A. Cunningham!!!!
Tony is the reason that your shred of a gathering continues to shrink!
Yes people are asking questions and they are being lied to by the sycophants of Tony.
Now all Tony can do is blame shift and blame everyone who has left the church cult.
Sorry Tony it's the truth! It's The TRUTH that sets people free and all your coercion and manipulation!!!
The History Proves This Point!
WE ARE RIGHT! ....AND TONY IS WRONG!!!!
Tony you are spineless coward! You are afraid to face the many who have posted the truth about your false theology's. It is your false theology that has you in the mess you are in today!!!
After all, everything falls upon leadership...your leadership!
Tony make a note: We are not going to back off on reporting the truth or reporting where you go next or what you reinvent yourself to next.
It is not over until repent! You see Tony we have the ability to forgive but that does not give you the right to keep on teaching your false doctrines of following David and or following you. The lines have been chiseled into the stone.
We will continue to pray for your salvation, but until then the bible tells us that if any one leads the Children of God away from the truth, he is cursed by God.
This was Bravehearts words above and I did not know how to transfer the picture of Tonys church sign being taken over by another church! False Apostle Mike Villamor and false self-proclaimed prophet Cydni Villamor's association with Tony and Jeff Barnes who can't seem to break free of Mikes deception but embrace it have always looked up to false apostle Tonys leadership and Tony had alot to do with the way TPWOC has turned out to where it is today!. In Jeff Barnes own words he told me that TPWOC was still going to have Mikes spiritual father false apostle Tony Cunningham up for teaching in their fake bible college.(SOMA,PNBC) You can check it out on Radiant Life's site.
You ask why? How could this have happened?
Because of the False Prophet, False Apostle and False Pastor
Mr. Tony A. Cunningham!!!!
Tony is the reason that your shred of a gathering continues to shrink!
Yes people are asking questions and they are being lied to by the sycophants of Tony.
Now all Tony can do is blame shift and blame everyone who has left the church cult.
Sorry Tony it's the truth! It's The TRUTH that sets people free and all your coercion and manipulation!!!
The History Proves This Point!
WE ARE RIGHT! ....AND TONY IS WRONG!!!!
Tony you are spineless coward! You are afraid to face the many who have posted the truth about your false theology's. It is your false theology that has you in the mess you are in today!!!
After all, everything falls upon leadership...your leadership!
Tony make a note: We are not going to back off on reporting the truth or reporting where you go next or what you reinvent yourself to next.
It is not over until repent! You see Tony we have the ability to forgive but that does not give you the right to keep on teaching your false doctrines of following David and or following you. The lines have been chiseled into the stone.
We will continue to pray for your salvation, but until then the bible tells us that if any one leads the Children of God away from the truth, he is cursed by God.
This was Bravehearts words above and I did not know how to transfer the picture of Tonys church sign being taken over by another church! False Apostle Mike Villamor and false self-proclaimed prophet Cydni Villamor's association with Tony and Jeff Barnes who can't seem to break free of Mikes deception but embrace it have always looked up to false apostle Tonys leadership and Tony had alot to do with the way TPWOC has turned out to where it is today!. In Jeff Barnes own words he told me that TPWOC was still going to have Mikes spiritual father false apostle Tony Cunningham up for teaching in their fake bible college.(SOMA,PNBC) You can check it out on Radiant Life's site.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: September 07, 2009 02:24PM
When Jesus was asked how many times we must forgive those who annoy and offend us, Jesus said 70 time 7. So again, I forgive Mike Villamor and the TPC Elders for disappointing me yet again. I will continue to forgive you for your human failings, not because there is anything in the fiber of my being that wants to forgive any of you for falsely accusing a wonderful and Godly woman of misconduct. There is nothing in me that wants to let any of you off the hook for not apologizing to this wonderful servant of the Lord in the same public way in which you set out to drag her name through the mud. But forgive you I must, not because I want to but because the Lord wants me to, and for him -- Yes, I will forgive you all.
Daughter of Dorcas
Daughter of Dorcas
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Timetospeak
()
Date: September 08, 2009 07:42AM
Will someone elaborate on Jackie's situation? Was she cleared, and if so, how?
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Daughter of Dorcas
()
Date: September 08, 2009 09:41AM
I had an email from her today. She is waiting for a letter from TPC legal counsel. There last communication was "they were full of grace and were not going to pursue the matter." But, evidence to the contrary be darned they have not deviated from their original position. Which is not surprising to anyone who knows anything about attorneys and how they form positions and arguments -- even when they know they are WRONG! I think there is a lot of hurt, but forgiveness and grace as well, because Mike told his congregation not to associate with her. However, I believe that charge was extended to cover everyone who has left and especially those who expressed their support for Jackie.
I want to be clear, Jackie is asking all of us to act with grace and forgiveness in this situation. We all know that being the woman of God she is that she could do nothing else. So please do not anyone disappoint her. Pray that God will bless TPC leadership with clarity of vision to find their way back to the narrow path.
Daughter of Dorcas
I want to be clear, Jackie is asking all of us to act with grace and forgiveness in this situation. We all know that being the woman of God she is that she could do nothing else. So please do not anyone disappoint her. Pray that God will bless TPC leadership with clarity of vision to find their way back to the narrow path.
Daughter of Dorcas
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Northwest
()
Date: September 08, 2009 10:22AM
I hope the situation with jackie can be resolved one way or another. As far as I know it looks like Jackie is innocent but allot of it is, "he said she said," and each side is saying the complete opposite.
However regardless of who is right I will still love Jackie. It sounds like from what I have heard they had the system set up so that it would be VERY easy for anyone to steal from the church and not have anyone notice for a long time. No one is perfect and I am more than willing to forgive/also understand that we are weak and it is easy to give into temptation. (Lack of financial accountability is one of the reasons I left the church)
Also even if Jackie was stealing from it doesn't affect at all my descision to leave. I left for very specific reasons over stuff I had prayed about for years. Even if Jackie is the worst person ever (she isn't) and everything she told us about what was going on at TP was false it wouldn't make a difference.
what I find sad is that people who are at TP are going to look at this situation and decide that everything bad they have seen at TP was only in there head or jackie / one of the people she deceived causing them to lose there faith.
----- Side note---
Even if Jackie did steal the 27 thousand or so over like 3 years, I don't see that as nearly as big of a deal as mike taking in $540k over that same time not including his wife and his business and honorariums from speaking. he supposedly makes 180k between him and his wife* What mike is doing just happens to be legal compared to what they are accusing her of doing.
*correct me if I'm wrong about the salary. I tried to ask TP for there financial information however was sent a message from mike saying they wouldn't send it to me and they are not required to send it to anyone).
---- also if you think I'm wrong about the salary go ask mike. Of course you would never do that because 1 it is considered a huge sin to read this site, 2 because you would be to afraid to ask him that.
However regardless of who is right I will still love Jackie. It sounds like from what I have heard they had the system set up so that it would be VERY easy for anyone to steal from the church and not have anyone notice for a long time. No one is perfect and I am more than willing to forgive/also understand that we are weak and it is easy to give into temptation. (Lack of financial accountability is one of the reasons I left the church)
Also even if Jackie was stealing from it doesn't affect at all my descision to leave. I left for very specific reasons over stuff I had prayed about for years. Even if Jackie is the worst person ever (she isn't) and everything she told us about what was going on at TP was false it wouldn't make a difference.
what I find sad is that people who are at TP are going to look at this situation and decide that everything bad they have seen at TP was only in there head or jackie / one of the people she deceived causing them to lose there faith.
----- Side note---
Even if Jackie did steal the 27 thousand or so over like 3 years, I don't see that as nearly as big of a deal as mike taking in $540k over that same time not including his wife and his business and honorariums from speaking. he supposedly makes 180k between him and his wife* What mike is doing just happens to be legal compared to what they are accusing her of doing.
*correct me if I'm wrong about the salary. I tried to ask TP for there financial information however was sent a message from mike saying they wouldn't send it to me and they are not required to send it to anyone).
---- also if you think I'm wrong about the salary go ask mike. Of course you would never do that because 1 it is considered a huge sin to read this site, 2 because you would be to afraid to ask him that.
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: September 09, 2009 12:20AM
For crying out loud. This is ridiculous. Come on people, if your pastor tells you not to associate with someone, b/c they no longer attend your church, maybe it's time to consider finding a new church yourself. I was trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, assuming that the reason they were *avoiding* me, and others, is b/c of how awkward the situation is. But if you people are avoiding those that left TP b/c Mike told you to, then you are no better than he is at this point. I'm tired of being "nice". You all are behaving in a manner that disgraces Christ, you are leaving people behind, and you are creating havoc that is shipwrecking people's faith! You will be held accountable for your actions, and the excuse of "Mike told me to" won't hold water when you stand before the king. God gave you brain, maybe it's time that you use it!
Re: Turning Point Church World Outreach Center-Tell Your Story
Posted by:
Brokenhearted
()
Date: September 09, 2009 12:24AM
And Northwest...
Yes, even IF Jackie did the things that TP accused her of, it doesn't change the FACT that TP has some very real problems with theior doctrine. Shifting the blame to Jackie isn't going to fix what wrong at TP. However, the manner in which TP has handled the entire situation should give EVERYONE a reason to consider looking elsewhere for a home church.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2009 12:32AM by Brokenhearted.
Yes, even IF Jackie did the things that TP accused her of, it doesn't change the FACT that TP has some very real problems with theior doctrine. Shifting the blame to Jackie isn't going to fix what wrong at TP. However, the manner in which TP has handled the entire situation should give EVERYONE a reason to consider looking elsewhere for a home church.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2009 12:32AM by Brokenhearted.
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