1. Does anyone know for sure if M&C are going to be pastoring at City Church?

2. Which City Church?

Thank you, Miki

Hi everyone, my name is Andy Istvan. I once said that I would never post on this website ever again, but I have had a really hard time in my healing process since leaving Turning Point and my friends that have been posting on here seem to be doing quite well. I don't feel like I have to say everything that went on at Turning Point because I am positive that it is all written on here already.

The past year or so I have never felt so unloved by people that proclaim to be christians. The only reason why I still believe in God today is because of my best friends Jesse Masten, Conner Frazier, Josh Jensen and the rest of the Masten family have shown me hospitality and love through this hard time. However I have tried to talk to some of my friends at TPC and they either show no interest in seeing me or just ignore me. Particularly the ones that are in some sort of leadership position.

What I have learned in my walk with God is that Love is all that matters. Love is not shown by words and words alone but I believe it is shown through your lifestyle more than anything. The reason that I have felt so unloved by people who proclaim to be christians is because they are following pastors such as pastor Mike who's lives are not marked by love but by lies, deceit and manipulation. I believe most churches now days are lead by men like pastor Mike and that is why I have felt more love outside of the church than inside the church.

I do not attend a church regularly anymore which means I don't go to a building on sunday mornings. I don't feel like I have to do that because I have my friends to fellowship with and therefore I am not forsaking the body of christ. I am simply just choosing the association that I surround myself that I feel is more justified. As far as ministry goes, I am in a band called In The Wake Of Tragedy. We are a non christian metal band but that is not the point. I get to show my friends in the band love and people that come to our shows, I get to show love. I am also in a business which I get to serve on people and help them restore relationship with their families.

I have seen a greater success of changing peoples lives in my business than I have seen in the modern day church. There are too many men that are rising up in leadership today that are power hungry and have no desire to serve people but have the desire to be served. That is the very thing that is not attracting people to God because there is no love in that.

What no Everett Events Center this year? I guess TPC needed a cheaper venue with revenues dwindling.

Saddened

Andy thank you for sharing such kind words. I think this is the toughest challenge. Coming out isn't victory, seeing people get safely to the other side is the long term goal. That can be a hard process.

Learningpoint asked this earlier, how is everyone doing in their recovery?

Hi Andy,

I'm glad you are on the road to healing, there is nothing more wounding than deception from a trustred leader. 1john makes it clear though that just because someone says they love God doesnt mean they actually do. The irony to that is that pastoe Mike recommended that i spend time in that book, unfortunately when you are deceived you dont know it, that is why your deceived. Jesus says blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy Hebrews 4 says you need to receive mercy in order to find grace. what better way to get the healing that you need than giving someone mercy who doesn't deserve mercy. The Mastens have brought healing to me in my times of rage, stay close they know how to love. If my kids end up like theirs ill be a blessed man.






Hi everyone, my name is Andy Istvan. I once said that I would never post on this website ever again, but I have had a really hard time in my healing process since leaving Turning Point and my friends that have been posting on here seem to be doing quite well. I don't feel like I have to say everything that went on at Turning Point because I am positive that it is all written on here already.

The past year or so I have never felt so unloved by people that proclaim to be christians. The only reason why I still believe in God today is because of my best friends Jesse Masten, Conner Frazier, Josh Jensen and the rest of the Masten family have shown me hospitality and love through this hard time. However I have tried to talk to some of my friends at TPC and they either show no interest in seeing me or just ignore me. Particularly the ones that are in some sort of leadership position.

What I have learned in my walk with God is that Love is all that matters. Love is not shown by words and words alone but I believe it is shown through your lifestyle more than anything. The reason that I have felt so unloved by people who proclaim to be christians is because they are following pastors such as pastor Mike who's lives are not marked by love but by lies, deceit and manipulation. I believe most churches now days are lead by men like pastor Mike and that is why I have felt more love outside of the church than inside the church.

Andy; that was a wonderful and thought provocing post. Your words ring true.

Look for "leaders" at TPcWOC to go on the attack and seek to discredit those who have left over the last year.
There will be a concerted effort to do anything and everything to paint those who have left in as negative a light as possible.
They will twist the truth in ways that will suit their purposes.
They will seek to divide family members who remain from family who have left.
They will accuse; They will slander; They will defame.
They will come dressed like sheep and will attack like wolves.
All in an effort to discredit, deflect and dominate.


The reason for this is quite simple:
The exodus continues.
The financial hemorrhaging continues.
The questions continue.


Rather than address the legitimate concerns of people in the church
the leaders have sought to distract with emphasis on "new" forms of communication;
new emphasis on recruitment through "evangelism";
and public effort to demonize those who have left.


Be aware. Be on your guard. Be in prayer.
Don't be distracted from seeking truth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2009 01:49AM by TurningPointReject.

Psalm 109 (New International Version)

Psalm 109

For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.

1 O God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.

3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.

4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.

5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.

6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.

7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.

8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.

9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.

10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.

11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.

13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.

14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

15 May their sins always remain before the LORD,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the brokenhearted.

17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it come on him;
he found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be far from him.

18 He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.

19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.

20 May this be the LORD's payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.

21 But you, O Sovereign LORD,
deal well with me for your name's sake;
out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.

22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.

23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
I am shaken off like a locust.

24 My knees give way from fasting;
my body is thin and gaunt.

25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they shake their heads.

26 Help me, O LORD my God;
save me in accordance with your love.

27 Let them know that it is your hand,
that you, O LORD, have done it.

28 They may curse, but you will bless;
when they attack they will be put to shame,
but your servant will rejoice.

29 My accusers will be clothed with disgrace
and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.

30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the LORD;
in the great throng I will praise him.

31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy one,
to save his life from those who condemn him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2009 03:05AM by TurningPointReject.

Andy,

I am sorry to hear news of the way you have been treated by people you once considered friends. Thank you for sharing. Here is a link to an article that you might find relevant. There are many resources out there to assist you in your process of healing. The best thing one can do is tell their story. I hope you will find this to be a place where you can share more of your own experience.

Here is the link [www.apologeticsindex.org]

I think there are enough of ex-TPC members that legal action could be taken, or so I was told by a neighbor who is a lawyer, to seek an injunction to prevent TPC Staff and Leadership from making slanderous and defamatory remarks about ex-members. Frankly I don't think it would take even that much, a letter from an lawyer representing ex-members in a possible class action would be sufficient was the easiest and cheapest route that was suggested to me. TPC has had enough bad press in the last year, this might just push them over the edge. It would be a very unwise and quite possibly disasterous both from a PR point of view and financially if they had to pay a lawyer to defend them from their own bad judgment. It would make TPC appear to be the cult that has been suggested it is and if they want to bring in new members that is not the way to do it.

Saddened

Quote
TurningPointReject
Look for "leaders" at TPcWOC to go on the attack and seek to discredit those who have left over the last year.
There will be a concerted effort to do anything and everything to paint those who have left in as negative a light as possible.
They will twist the truth in ways that will suit their purposes.
They will seek to divide family members who remain from family who have left.
They will accuse; They will slander; They will defame.
They will come dressed like sheep and will attack like wolves.
All in an effort to discredit, deflect and dominate.


The reason for this is quite simple:
The exodus continues.
The financial hemorrhaging continues.
The questions continue.


Rather than address the legitimate concerns of people in the church
the leaders have sought to distract with emphasis on "new" forms of communication;
new emphasis on recruitment through "evangelism";
and public effort to demonize those who have left.


Be aware. Be on your guard. Be in prayer.
Don't be distracted from seeking truth.