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BraveHeart

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Mville04
Oh yes; the float.
I am reminded of the actor who comes on during the commercial break and says "Hi, I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV." and then proceeds to sell you some medical cure.
I think the float was like that in some ways. These people were groomed and displayed for one purpose only. To hock the church. There job for Mike was to perform and sell it big. It was carefully created, packaged it up real pretty and now their selling it. What's next, lunch boxes? Trading cards?

Just my opinion.

How about free ice cream on Wednesday!

They have ice cream on Wednesdays?

The name of this thread is TPCWOC-Tell Your Story. Your story matters. All too often your story isnt allowed to see the day of light. After all, if you start to tell your story and it doesnt line up with the powers that be then you will feel the pressure to be quiet. Many of you have been told by those in leadership at TPC "Fine If you leave then leave. JUST DONT TELL ANYONE WHY YOU ARE LEAVING". They don't want you to tell YOUR story. Some of you have been intimidated into silence; made to think that if you tell your story you will be sued and drug into court. Others of you have been told that it is "sin" to talk about your reasons for leaving. Some of you have experienced the look of disbelief when you have attempted to tell your story to someone on the outside. Others of you have been accused of being responsible for your own hurt when you've shared your story. I came across the following post and it really struck a nerve for me. I post it here for all those who have longed to tell THEIR story but have been too fearful to do so. I hope it helps you to know that you are not alone.

Provender

A clearinghouse of sources on spiritual abuse and cult-like practices in churches and groups

Thursday, July 2, 2009
That look of suspicion

You meet a friend in the store who says, "Why aren't you attending that church anymore?"

Slowly, you begin to explain, carefully at first, then a little more -- and then you see the look. The look of suspended judgment. Very commendable, usually, to suspend judgment until one hears both sides.

In your case, though, it is pretty clear there is only one side. For all who have been abused by your church or leader, the abuse is pretty one-sided. You may have bent over backwards to please. You may have tried to support your leader with all your might until it simply wasn't possible any more. It doesn't matter.

To those on the outside, all church trouble comes from pride and it's equally distributed. You are as guilty as your abusive pastor in many eyes. They don't know the situation. They only have your word. Still, because of limited experience with narcissistic manipulators, sociopaths or potential cult leaders, they are going to throw you that look.

The more you explain, the worse you look, so you clam up. The abusive pastor has won another victory and he or she isn't even present. The Can't Talk rule has triumphed again.

When you receive this reaction, take heart. You are not alone. Eventually, when stories from your abusive group get out - and they eventually will - you will be vindicated. But it takes time. In the meantime, realize that those who have not undergone spiritual abuse really have no clue what torments you've endured. They simply can't get it. But they will someday know that you were a victim and not equally culpable.

Posted by Bibliophile at Thursday, July 02, 2009

Mike Warnke, whose lucrative career careened through four marriages and more than one affair, says God will judge Cornerstone magazine for printing a report disproving his ex-satanic high priest "testimony" and exposing his moral lapses. Healing movement televangelist Benny Hinn says God will attack CRI president Hank Hanegraaff and his family because he criticizes Hinn and his Faith movement colleagues. Lauren Stratford's supporters charge Bob and Gretchen Passantino as agents of Satan because we published evidence that Stratford's best-selling testimony of satanic ritual abuse was false.

When it comes to Christians criticizing Christians, the battle lines are drawn. But are the lines biblical? Is it wrong to publicly evaluate the teachings of a Christian pastor, expose the immorality of a Christian leader, or tell the truth about a popular Christian media figure?

Evangelicals warn people about the false teachings and practices of the cults, which claim compatibility with Christianity and yet deny cardinal Christian doctrine. Our standard is truth and our judge is Scripture. Yet when apologists turn to false teachings within the Christian church, some evangelicals apply a different standard. Frequently heard objections include, "Jesus said it's wrong to judge," and, "Criticism is unloving and divisive." Christians who voice these protests fail their own test -- they criticize and judge other Christians for criticizing and judging other Christians. Furthermore, these critics fail to understand that without such scrutiny, Christians are misled into heresy and duped by those whose public ministries promote false teachings and/or hide private immoral behavior. Careful, biblical criticism expresses true Christian love and affords essential safeguards to faith.

Good discernment and moral accountability should be practiced among believers. The Old Testament establishes this pattern. Instructions concerning false prophets in Deuteronomy 13:1-5 assume the prophet arises from the congregation of Israel. People are admonished to banish idolatry from their families: "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend..." (v. 6). Deuteronomy 13 instructs the Israelites how to practice good discernment within their communities: "You must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly." If the community is idolatrous, it must be dealt with publicly (v. 14). Psalm 50:18 states that one who sees a crime and doesn't report it has moral culpability.

The New Testament continues the theme of good discernment within the believing community, most notably when the Bereans test Paul's teachings (Acts 17:11) and the Thessalonians are commanded to test all things (1 Thess. 5:21-22). Judgment is not excluded, but unrighteous judgment is. Jesus declared: "Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment" (John 7:24).

Jesus expelled the money changers from the temple, denounced the Pharisees and scribes, and rebuked the teachers of the Law. He reprimanded Peter in front of the other disciples (Matt. 16:22-23). Paul followed Jesus' example, naming false teachers in the church (2 Tim. 2:14-19) and openly criticizing Peter (Gal. 2:11, 14).

When immorality occurs in the church (Titus 1:15-16), the Bible says to deal with it truthfully and constructively. The procedure for public leaders caught in false teaching or immorality is for them to be rebuked publicly "so that the others may take warning" (1 Tim. 5:20). A congregation member who sins privately against another Christian is not to be exposed publicly unless he (or she) persists in sin, in which case he is to be rebuked before the church and we are to "treat him as you would a pagan or tax collector" (Matt. 18:15-17). Paul followed this procedure concerning the Christian who persisted in sexual immorality (1 Cor. 5:3-12), and affirmed that judgment belongs to the church.

Christian leaders are accountable to God's people, whom the leaders serve, and should be "above reproach," "respectable," and "able to teach" (1 Tim. 3:2). A Christian leader who is a false teacher or immoral should be rebuked to encourage reform (Titus 1:13), and cannot separate his ministry from his life, expecting God to bless his preaching while privately he sins; he is "disqualified for every good work" (vv. 15-16).

Telling the truth about false teaching or immorality in the church corresponds with the ethics and truth which are to characterize the church. The church is the "salt of the earth" and "the light of the world" (Matt. 5:13-14) only if characterized by truthfulness (v. 11) and righteousness (v. 16). The Christian leader has an obligation to "hold firmly the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it" (Titus 1:9). No Christian is happy when false teaching or immorality arises, but we cannot neglect responsibility for doctrinal and moral accountability.

Christians sometimes are uncomfortable with criticism within the church because they assume that public criticism, since it is painful, is also destructive. On the contrary, the "pain" of biblically conducted confrontation produces individual growth (1 Tim. 4:16), encourages others to Christian maturity (1 Tim. 5:19-20), promotes church strength (Eph. 4:15), and preserves the church's reputation in the world (1 Pet. 2:12).

Copyright 1994 by the Christian Research Institute

A Very Relevant Article



Principles Not Procedures - How to Deal With Corrupt Leadership In Churches
Jun 19th, 2009
by Kevin D. Johnson.


No one doubts that Matthew 18 is a relevant passage in dealing with resolving offenses between brothers, but the procedure outlined in Matthew 18:15-17 is set in a very specific context that is often overlooked. In churches where spiritual abuse is occurring particularly at the hands of ministers and pastors who rule by fear, intimidation, and the inordinate and inappropriate use of Scripture–passages like this can become a very powerful weapon to accomplish and maintain abuse instead of legitimate repentance and reconciliation.

Much of the time, people find themselves caught in a web of spiritual abuse and don’t find out about what’s really going on until it is too late and much damage has already been done. By that time, families are divided. Husbands and wives in disagreement....FOR MORE CLICK ON THE LINK [www.prophezei.com]

When has Authority Gone Too Far? This article highlights the unhealthy way we've turned pastors to gods. It includes a list of 11 marks of perverted authority:

1. The claim of direct authority from God, rather than testing things by the Word
2. The command is to "submit to me," rather than "I will serve you"
3. The method of leadership is to "order" people around, rather than to appeal for them to do the right things
4. There is a dominating, "pushy" drive instead of a dependence on God to direct
5. There is a sense of control, rather than a sense of support
6. A gift is exploited so that others are made to feel dependent on it
7. There is an inflexibility--"don't question me"--"don't touch the Lord's anointed"
8. There is unapproachability and intimidation--the "aura" around the leader keeps the followers in "awe"
9. There emerges an organization built around a man and his peculiar emphases instead of around Christ and His Word
10. There will be cyclical challenges to the authority figure (which are immediately and forcefully purged)
11. There is more concern for maintaining the authoritarian structure than there is for caring about the people in it.

See the article at [www.batteredsheep.com]

TPWOC sermon for Sunday july 5th Faith to be in Gods Goodness is now on line on the TPWOC web site by false apostle Mike Villamor! Mike says God is Good! I believe Mike wants us to change our image of God into his prosperity,goodness,great reward GOD! I believe Mike is setting the ground work for you all to be taught the posperity gospel! If you do not accept this prosperity God then you are perverted ,confused and you are an enemy! Don't entertain questions of any of Mikes false doctrines or you will have a spirit of confusion,seeds of doubt,your mind will me a tornado, you will not know whether to put on red socks or blue socks, you will be a complete mess!There are enemies out there shouting doubt in your ear,mind and heart! Your enemies have a spirit of confusion and they believe in a scary mean God! I believe Mike says God is a generous God and if you don't give your tithe to him then you are calling God a liar! That should keep the money rolling in! Mikes remedy for his enemies is to watch the movie happy feet to fix their image of there mean scary judgemental God! The ememies believe in a God who wants to take away! Mike says faith is the basic for righteous not preformance! Is not TPWOC a preformace church to please Mike and Cyndi and gain there approval! Mike tells his people to stop worrying if you are right or wrong! I believe Mike also said God is like him! Mike said that he now has a professor (soma grad) media guy? Wow they have professors now! And don't forget Mike says your enimies are at work 24/7 all year long to put seeds of doubt in you! I believe Mike said that after 5,6,7 years that they will fix your kids at TPWOC with doubt ,shame , condemnation and fear! Mike wants Tpwoc people to love their enemies,listen to them and to bless there socks off! I love you Mike, I just don't like your false doctrines! There was truth in your sermon I am just concerned about your motives!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2009 12:40PM by buddy.

I found this article on the Provender blog site. I would suspect that the "Dont Talk, Can't Talk" Rule is applied by false prophets and apostles to sites such as this. No doubt some have been told by their religious "superiors" to not 'read the rick ross site' because of the reasons listed in the article below. What about you? How have you experienced the "Can't Talk, Don't Talk" rule at Turning Point cHurch? Tell your story.

TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2009
Can't Talk Rule or Don't Talk Rule
Various sources on spiritual abuse warn about the Can't Talk rule (or the Don't Talk rule) in abusive groups. In spiritually manipulative churches, leaders or pastors don't usually come right out and tell you not to talk about problems in the church. They are much more subtle.

They might hint at "the enemy" who incites people to gossip, or they may denounce weak Christians who whisper. They might emphasize grumbling and complaining as among the gravest of sins. They might compare those who raise issues to scoffers in Moses' time, implying that if you dare mention a concern about the church you are like the ungrateful Israelites that the good Moses ( read: church leader) had to put up with.

By whatever means available, abusive pastors will shut down discussion and prevent accountability for suspect practices. The unspoken "don't talk" rule makes this easy. Anyone who dares raise an issue to the light of day will be shut down, preached against, shunned, mistreated or shamed, either by open means or subtle means.

Perhaps some have left the church, and you have suspicions about why. Maybe the pastor has preached something that doesn't line up with scripture. Maybe someone has been kicked out of church or removed from a ministry. Perhaps these uncomfortable practices have been increasing. Maybe the finances are not open to public view; or business meetings are closed or nonexistent. Perhaps teachers or musicians have complained about mistreatment and you are not sure who to believe.

Those living under a Can't Talk or Don't Talk rule know not to ask questions. They have been manipulated into remaining silent, even though their active conscience urges them to speak up. The reluctance to speak up is often disguised as virtue. You're not a grumbler. You're not a trouble maker. It's someone else's place to ask questions, not yours. You're just a humble nobody. So the pastor or leader remains accountable to no one. He can do what he likes without opposition, no matter how questionable, unorthodox, ungodly -- or in some cases, illegal.

If this describes the mechanism in place at your church, make sure to do a little research into spiritual abuse and see if other signs might not also be present in your group. The Can't Talk rule is an unspoken rule meant to stifle and hide anything that challenges the control of a leader or that has the potential to put a leader in a bad light. It is often the tip of the iceburg.

POSTED BY BIBLIOPHILE AT TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2009

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TurningPointReject
I found this article on the Provender blog site. I would suspect that the "Dont Talk, Can't Talk" Rule is applied by false prophets and apostles to sites such as this. No doubt some have been told by their religious "superiors" to not 'read the rick ross site' because of the reasons listed in the article below. What about you? How have you experienced the "Can't Talk, Don't Talk" rule at Turning Point cHurch? Tell your story.

TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2009
Can't Talk Rule or Don't Talk Rule
Various sources on spiritual abuse warn about the Can't Talk rule (or the Don't Talk rule) in abusive groups. In spiritually manipulative churches, leaders or pastors don't usually come right out and tell you not to talk about problems in the church. They are much more subtle.

They might hint at "the enemy" who incites people to gossip, or they may denounce weak Christians who whisper. They might emphasize grumbling and complaining as among the gravest of sins. They might compare those who raise issues to scoffers in Moses' time, implying that if you dare mention a concern about the church you are like the ungrateful Israelites that the good Moses ( read: church leader) had to put up with.

By whatever means available, abusive pastors will shut down discussion and prevent accountability for suspect practices. The unspoken "don't talk" rule makes this easy. Anyone who dares raise an issue to the light of day will be shut down, preached against, shunned, mistreated or shamed, either by open means or subtle means.

Perhaps some have left the church, and you have suspicions about why. Maybe the pastor has preached something that doesn't line up with scripture. Maybe someone has been kicked out of church or removed from a ministry. Perhaps these uncomfortable practices have been increasing. Maybe the finances are not open to public view; or business meetings are closed or nonexistent. Perhaps teachers or musicians have complained about mistreatment and you are not sure who to believe.

Those living under a Can't Talk or Don't Talk rule know not to ask questions. They have been manipulated into remaining silent, even though their active conscience urges them to speak up. The reluctance to speak up is often disguised as virtue. You're not a grumbler. You're not a trouble maker. It's someone else's place to ask questions, not yours. You're just a humble nobody. So the pastor or leader remains accountable to no one. He can do what he likes without opposition, no matter how questionable, unorthodox, ungodly -- or in some cases, illegal.

If this describes the mechanism in place at your church, make sure to do a little research into spiritual abuse and see if other signs might not also be present in your group. The Can't Talk rule is an unspoken rule meant to stifle and hide anything that challenges the control of a leader or that has the potential to put a leader in a bad light. It is often the tip of the iceburg.

POSTED BY BIBLIOPHILE AT TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2009

How many times has the false apostle Mike Villamor and false prophet Cyndi Villamor used this tactic,can't talk,don't talk rule! It has been in almost all the sermons since they came back from his so called sabbtical. Engage the enemy, shutting the mouths of lions , awakening the warriors,complaining,negative words,fear,confusion,exaggeration,rampage,sucker punch,,half truths,accusation,schemes,spirit of fear,intimidation,season of crisis,criticism,slanders,gossipers,envy,scary,mean,talking among ourselves,hinder provisions,bondage,murmur,silence yourselves,offence,fear mongers,doubters,the enemy of fear in our minds,bad reports,panic,rebellions,judgement,insults,hurts ,divisive, selfish,disunity, fall,dissension,crude humor,trap,stumble, condemn,guilty,foolish,misuderstand,lead astray,stress,on and on they go to try and control the people at TPWOC! Mike tryed to use the Moses,Caleb,promise land tactic on you! Oh my goodness, Mike Villamors Spiritual Son,Jeff Barnes devoted a friday night fan your flame sermon on slanders and gossipers! Wake up and smell the roses people at TPWOC, get out as fast as you can or fight like crazy to take your church back!

False Apostle Mike Villamor needs our help! On Mikes twitter site he says he is working on topics for sermons for this fall! Mike is asking us for suggestions and if there is anything we would like to hear! Thanks for asking Mike! I would like to hear a sermon on how to tell a false apostle or prophet from a true one! Also another good sermon topic would be : What to do if a Wolf comes into our midst? What do you do to protect the flock? This one could become a series! How to protect the church from false doctrine! How about: Should a Senior Pastor be accountable to his elders! Is it biblical to hide the wages of the pastors and staff from the church? Does anybody else have any suggestion for Mike! Mike he is so busy twittering that he does not have time to think about topics for this fall. Mike needs all the help he can get from us! I believe a excellent topic for Mike to do is a sermon on Jesus Christ of the bible! And stay away from the get rich Jesus of the Word-faith movement!