can understand a man like Mike being led astray -- any one of us can be led astray and deceived. Mike is not above repentance. if he will listen. What I cannot understand is the eldership IGNORING the people's cries. I cannot understand why they won't stand up to Mike. Why can't they see? Why? I just don't get it.



When leadership is chosen by how much they submit to their leader ( Mike and cyndi ) not God. when the determination of whether a person is godly is by how much they submit and do the pastors will. then problems will occur. I know for a fact the elders know the truth but lack the trust in God or whatever it takes not to cower before Mike. so the choice is accept the truth they know in their hearts, and do nothing because of fear of man, thus convicting them of being cowards, or ignore the whole thing and put their trust in Mike. Of coarse us humans ( i I include myself) will usually choose the easyiest less confronttive way. Unfortunatly most people think that being a leader in the church somehow makes you better then the other guy, more spiritual, a chosen one, someone who God likes best. so there is much striving to be somebody. The verse humble yourself in the sight of the Lord and He will lift you up seems pretty much ignored. And in talk to an elder about a problem , they will usually give you their great wisdom and insight on how to live your life. while theirs is falling apart. Gods ways are not mans ways His thoughts are not mans thoughts. But I believe that when a person becomes a leader in the church. they believe their ways and thoughts are more like Gods than anybody. Here are the facts. God has defeated satan He has more power then satan do you think God would let satan destroy His church. do you think satan can take all the people who have left tp hearts and control them somehow causeing them to rebel. maybe Gods ways are not mans ways. But I believe that God is trying to get someones attention. Please whoever that someone is wake up before turningpoint is no more.

Amen, noone, amen. Very well said and so very true.

Quote
WalterMartin
To Saddened & Forgiveness_101:

Saddened, I find it too difficult to say "yes" or "no" to your question. There was just too much [reply] to answer for. WalterMartin is just a name I use for this forum. I feel it fits this site & me. I agree with much of what the real Walter Martin has said. His book "Kingdom of the Cults" was a good read in my studies. I picked up a good habit from him. That is all. I really must admit to not following his radio programs or other writings.

Forgiveness_101, I shall attempt to be specific. i just must not communicate well when writing. Okay here it goes:

I first attended TPC 10-11 years ago. I have not been to TPC for a service in 5-6 years. I may have gone to a "Church in the Park" and a "Summer Jubilee" during that time, however. 3 years ago I had a child enrolled in their Home School Co-Op. During this time, I had a rather disturbing meeting (I felt) with a Pastor. Before I left the curb, I kicked the dirt off my heels and said a little prayer for them. I have noticed weird speech from attendee(s).

--As for being for or against, I give no answer to that. The facts are that I have disagreements with them. I don't send anybody their way. I DO NOT attend their church. I believe some of the things I have heard from TPC are unhealthy and disturbing. When I say I am objective, its my way of acting in moderation. I do not intend to say everybody in here is closed-minded. I have not the same rights as do the witnesses or insiders contributing to this forum. I am for Christ.

I hope that is acceptable. In addition, I pay taxes. I feel some are acceptable and some are misrepresented.

WalterMartin

Thank you Walter,

I understand your hesitation to say anything negative towards TPC, God has used them to do lots of good; God is not too proud to use them. He will continue to do good through them too, that doesn't mean that God is pleased with them, He is just gracious.

I am curious to one thing,

If you have not been to TPC in the last 6 years and the only contact you had was the church co-op how did you hear about this website?

I am sorry you had a bad experience with a pastor, i too had a "bad" meeting with a pastor. It was a very emotional experience that was hard to deal with, best of luck to you.

Kyle Frazier

Haha. . . I just found this hiding in one of my folders and thought I'd bring it up:
___________________________________________________________________

One Eighty Intern Program VOW OF NOBILITY
As a prospective One Eighty Intern in 2006, I, ______, vow to pursue and maintain throughout my internship the high standard appropriate to a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, specifically, I vow to
* Pursue holiness through adherence to Scriptural standards of conduct and character, maintaining a lifestyle that is above reproach;
* Abstain from nicotine, alcohol, and any illegal drugs;
*Abstain from any inappropriate (i.e. premarital or extramarital) sexual activity and from romantic relationships with any high school-age youth;
* Commit myself to the pursuit of God through consistent and growing practice of spiritual disciplines, including worship, prayer, studying the Bible, and fasting;
* Maintain financial accountability and good stewardship, including (if applicable) paying all SOMA bills in a timely manner;
* Commit myself to excellence in carrying out ministry duties;
* Preserve unity within the ministry and avoid all gossip and slander;
* Commit myself to submission to the leadership of One Eighty Youth Ministry and Turning Point Community Church and to the vision God has given them for ministry
____________________________________________________________________

Kind of funny how everything looks so different now compared to when I was hyped up to be part of it.

Forgiveness 101,

A few weeks ago, I ran into somebody I used to know. She had asked about how I had been, etc. I told her that I just started attending church again after a couple years being absent. We just sort of talked about our experiences. She just left TPC. She had mentioned the website. However, I believe she had only heard about it. I decided to check it out.

WalterMartin

1 Thessalonians 5: 21-22 Test everything; hold fast to what is good. Abstain from every form of evil.

When the members of Turning Point started using discernment and applying it to the teachings and actions of leadership, person by person the trickle out the door turned into a river of exodus. These people had read, understood, and applied God's words for the purpose of seperating truth from error in what Pastor Mike and leadership were teaching. They applied discernment to determine what was right and what was wrong with the direction that Turning Point was heading and found very little right. They appled God's wisdom, from their Bibles, to their lives and arrived at a decision to leave because there was no longer any good fruit to be found at Turning Point.

There are good and wonderful people in the congregation, to be sure.

But the word of God has been corrupted and the wolf wasn't satisfied with the dog food that Pastor Mike thought would be enough if a wolf came into their midst. What's worse Pastor Mike and the Elders invited the wolf into the church.

Corruption came in the form of Pastor Tony Cunningham, whose influence in what Turning Point has become is not as well known as it should be. Any connection with that man needs to be severed and any who allowed his influence to taint such a promising church should approach each and every member of the Turning Point congregation and ask -- no beg -- for forgiveness and repent. The prideful spirit, the greed, and the false teachings can be directly linked back to a man who had no business being included in the decisions of Turning Point.

How can the Elders, who have shown such poor judgement and lack of wisdom, think they are qualified to lead Turning Point? If anyone can provide a reasonable answer to that question I would love to hear it.

Saddened

How can the Elders, who have shown such poor judgement and lack of wisdom, think they are qualified to lead Turning Point? If anyone can provide a reasonable answer to that question I would love to hear it.

Saddened DELUSION

Well yes, Nooneofanyimpotance, Pastor Mike and Pastor Tony certainly hold to false beliefs based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what everybody else knows and believes; and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary.

Pastor Mike and Pastor Tony certainly seem to have bought into a grandiose delusion that they have special powers, talents, and abilities They certainly believe they have accomplished some great achievement for which they have not received sufficient recognition or honor for. But I find no where in my Bible where it says to honor false teachers, quite the contrary.

Delusional disorder is a type of serious mental illness, a "psychosis," and it is true based on Pastor Tony's deposition testimony and Pastor Mike's bizarre demands for adoration in his apostolic ministry class (which students were heard to call the "worship Pastor Mike class") that they cannot tell what is real from what is not. But isn't there a pill for that?


So really all Pastor Mike and the elders need is a few months of in patient care with appropriate medication and therapy. Got it -- Pastor Mike and the Elders all need a four month sabatical with cognitive therapy and antipsychotic medication. During this sabbatical persons who are about the Father's work can dismantle the mess that has led to lack of transparency and accountability and return Turning Point to the church of promise that it once was and cut all ties with Tony Cunningham.

Saddened



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2009 03:26AM by Saddened.

I am sorry, Saddened, but I must disagree with you on your hypothesis as to Mike and Tony's mental contition.
The know exactly what they are doing!! They know it's wrong! They just don't care! Greed rules!

1 John 1, Luke 5 & 13, and Matthew 18 – For the last several weeks I have been involved with a small group from our new church which is helping myself and others recover from our experience, pain, hurt, and disillusionment because we came out of toxic and abusive churches. It was no surprise that many of the group had attended Turning Point at various different times during its existence. Pastor Chad asked participants not to post on this forum while in this small group, he understood that we would never lose our anger when we were constantly confronted by it. He was right.

I have read the suggested reading list a friend gave me when we left Turning Point. I have expanded my readings into other areas so that I learn enough so that hopefully what happened to my family at Turning Point will never happen again. I have listened to our Pastor, who I am appreciating more and more every week, talk about being on staff at a church which sounded much like Turning Point and the reasons he left. For the past two weeks he has preached on the subject of forgiveness. Partly because I sent him an email after last Sunday’s sermon saying I was struggling with forgiving the people at Turning Point who disappointed me. I told him that forgiving them when they were not sorry for the hurt and damage they had done to so many felt like giving them a get out of sin free card.

Today the light bulb finally went on when Pastor Chad talked about forgiving someone does not give them license to go out and do the same thing to others. It also does not mean that I ever have to open the door to be victimized by them again. So after praying about the problem and wanting to get on with my life in a new church family, I have asked God to help me to forgive those at Turning Point who disappointed me and stole my trust. I do not think I could ever get over the anger alone, but with Christ I can do all things. I then prayed about who I had not yet been able to forgive.

Pastor Mike is a weak man by his own admission. He has admitted to using poor judgment and engaging in worldly failings. So when given the opportunity to buy into the double honor nonsense was there for the taking it was no surprise he took the opportunity after all he is just a man and a weak one at that. Pastor Mike is a gifted speaker to be sure, but he is still a weak and sinful man just like the rest of us. That type of person is easy to understand and forgive.

So Pastor Jeff Barnes, I forgive you for disappointing me and not living up to the call that the Lord has on your life. You above all were in a position to prevent Pastor Mike from leading the church onto the slippery slope of false teaching. As a pastor and an elder you have a responsibility to the Lords flock to shepherd them and protect them from harm and the wolves of the world that look for ways to prey on God’s children. As an elder and a Pastor you have certain responsibilities that you have promised the Lord that you would do and you have ignored them. However, since the Lord has put it on my heart and with his help, I forgive you for all your failings and for all the hurt you have caused me and others. I cast this on the Lord for him to deal with because I would rather live in his forgiveness and grace than hold onto anything that hinders my relationship with him. I forgive you for causing my husband to say “they lived up to my expectation of churches – greedy.” My forgiveness does not give you a get out of sin free card you do not have a license to continue to defend the indefensible, my forgiveness is a call that you need to seek the Lord and have a long heart to heart chat. He will help you, let him. 1 John 1, Luke 5 & 13, and Matthew 18.


Daughter of Dorcas