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Forgiveness_101
Dear Walter Martin,

What I think everyone is trying to convey here is that much of us had "open minds" at one time and we went in researching with open minds. What we want to convey here is that to say you are not for TPC but not against it is like saying " i am not for or against taxs" please explain what you mean in a little more detail, but i understand if you would wait on divulging your identity.

What was your experience at TPC, positive, negative?

Do you think they have more bad fruit than good fruit, (if you haven't watched "Church Mafia" you should, you can find it on youtube)?
Do you think the secretive nature gives to there creditability or takes away?
Do you think that God is glorified in there services?
Do you think God would be proud (happy) to say that TPC is a church representing his son?

I can not honestly answer in favor for TPC on any of these issues, meaning if GOD is not glorified they are covering up the truth therfor being a destructive towards unity, and I don't think God is happy with how they are handling the situation; am I for or against them?

If I am for Unity- I am against lies....secrecy and the bunch. (TPC)
If I am for God being glorified- Then i disagree with how they preach, teach, lie, steal, and spiritually manipulate people.
If I am for pleasing God- I am against how they handle these situations (that is people leaving, that is with out regard for there well being)

Please understand, I know why people go to TPC, i was one of them... I shared in the same experience "HIGH" that everyone else did. I am opened minded about hearing people out and respecting opinions, but ultimately there is Truth and i will stand up for it, and for TPC is just one of many churches that destroy the work of Christ through leading people to the church and then dumping them on the streets when you don't agree, although they preach the gospel, they look good.... but when the gospel comes with pretenses of perfection, wealth, health, submission to an authority, or anything else but the unending grace of Christ and with our faith (in his son), it is not the gospel and should be preached against.

I hope you understand and thank you for taking your time to read this
Kyle Conner Frazier

Kyle I remember the first time you posted on this forum. You have come along way since that first post. Your journey, no doubt, has not been easy or free from grief. Thank you for continuing to encourage others who have questions.

TPC loves to talk about UNITY. Anyone who has questions or concerns are labeled as "divisive", "trouble makers", "weak in the flesh", "rebellious", "complainers" or, worse, "unsaved". To all at TPC who say they desire unity know this: UNITY is found in TRANSPARENCY. UNITY is found in leaders who live accountable to those they serve. UNITY is found when persons with questions and concerns are able to voice those concerns without fear of attack, slander, and being ostracized.

Admit it, TPC leaders. Admit it Mike, Cyndi, Jeff and Kim: You do not desire Unity. You only desire full and complete submission to your will and your whims.

It is with sadness that we continue to welcome new posters to this forum. Welcome Sadden and Walter Martin. We hope this is a place where you can be heard and encouraged as your continue your journey to healing and health.

TPCAttender, thank you for the update. I, too, am sad that you have come to the conclusion that you can no longer attend TPC. My prayers will continue for wisdom for your direction and comfort as you go through the grief of losing the church you once knew and loved.

50,000 thousand views.


Wow.


It took four months for this thread to register 10,000 views.
It took three months for this thread to register an additional 40,000 views.

What do you think this means?

Let us know.

In the mean time, keep reading; keep sharing; keep praying.

Attender: My heart is absolutely broken for you. I know you gave it your best shot to convince leadership of their error, but they would not listen. I am so angry. I will be leaving the church in the next couple weeks. I want to talk to leadership and explain why I'm leaving and I'm preparing my words. My words will be angry -- not abusive though. The Word tells us to "be angry and do not sin." I want them to hear my anger. I DO NOT understand how there can be so much smoke and they do not see the fire. I just cannot even begin to wrap my head around this. Healthy churches do not have loyal followers of Christ -- earnest seekers -- come and complain without valid concern Healthy pastors would welcome dialog so that their sheep could continue on the straight and narrow path. But Turning Point says WE ARE DECEIVED. WE ARE THE PERSECUTORS. Pastor Mike tells the staff people leave TP for 2 reasons -- they are called elsewhere OR they are deceived. How dare him call me deceived. How DARE him. I'm not called anywhere else. I'm called OUT OF TURNING POINT. I AM NOT DECEIVED. I have discernment -- my eyes are wide open. I AM DRIVEN OUT. D - R- I - V - E- N !

Now where will I go. I have to leave my blood family there, my friends, my community. So much for "God setting the lonely in families!" My family is now busted apart and I write this in tears because my church refuses to listen to my concerns. REFUSE! So I'm alone with no where to go.

I can understand a man like Mike being led astray -- any one of us can be led astray and deceived. Mike is not above repentance. if he will listen. What I cannot understand is the eldership IGNORING the people's cries. I cannot understand why they won't stand up to Mike. Why can't they see? Why? I just don't get it.

Oh God! Why do you do nothing? Please please please -- reveal this error. Humble Mike or remove him. Please God for the glory of your name and for your love for your people at that church. Please God. We believe in miracles. Can't you do one at Turning Point? We cry out for your mercy and we wait in expectant anticipation of what you will do. Please reveal the truth to the people still there so that they aren't led astray. When falsehood is preached -- when Mike says such UTTERLY STUPID THINGS LIKE "Jesus was DRESSED" -- open the eyes of your people. OPEN THEIR EYES! I beg for your mercy on this church.

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TPC loves to talk about UNITY. Anyone who has questions or concerns are labeled as "divisive", "trouble makers", "weak in the flesh", "rebellious", "complainers" or, worse, "unsaved".

This is so true. It's odd, but once I was talking to someone 'discipled' by Cyndi. She said that Cyndi knew there were unsaved people in her discipleship group, that they just needed to awaken to that fact. Since when does she know who has truly committed their life to Christ?? Were these people questioners?

To Saddened & Forgiveness_101:

Saddened, I find it too difficult to say "yes" or "no" to your question. There was just too much [reply] to answer for. WalterMartin is just a name I use for this forum. I feel it fits this site & me. I agree with much of what the real Walter Martin has said. His book "Kingdom of the Cults" was a good read in my studies. I picked up a good habit from him. That is all. I really must admit to not following his radio programs or other writings.

Forgiveness_101, I shall attempt to be specific. i just must not communicate well when writing. Okay here it goes:

I first attended TPC 10-11 years ago. I have not been to TPC for a service in 5-6 years. I may have gone to a "Church in the Park" and a "Summer Jubilee" during that time, however. 3 years ago I had a child enrolled in their Home School Co-Op. During this time, I had a rather disturbing meeting (I felt) with a Pastor. Before I left the curb, I kicked the dirt off my heels and said a little prayer for them. I have noticed weird speech from attendee(s).

--As for being for or against, I give no answer to that. The facts are that I have disagreements with them. I don't send anybody their way. I DO NOT attend their church. I believe some of the things I have heard from TPC are unhealthy and disturbing. When I say I am objective, its my way of acting in moderation. I do not intend to say everybody in here is closed-minded. I have not the same rights as do the witnesses or insiders contributing to this forum. I am for Christ.

I hope that is acceptable. In addition, I pay taxes. I feel some are acceptable and some are misrepresented.

WalterMartin

wonderingnow,

I am truly, so very sorry for your pain......

WonderingNow,
I am so very sorry you have felt pushed to this. I know you've struggled and tried to work through things. There is a church family for you, God has one ready for you. For all of us.

My heart and prayers go out to you.

WalterMartin said "I have noticed weird speech from attendee"

WalterMartin: Honesty and truth when serving a purpose such as a warning to others can only be just and good. Surely reporting what you have heard or conversations you have had that help and does not reveal specific identities can't hurt. Wouldn't you say that?
Kicking off the dirt helps you. Picking it up and showing it to others helps them.

Turning Point Leadership cannot begin to make amends to all the people that have been hurt by their attitudes, behaviors, and teachings. God has a message for both those that have been hurt and Turning Point Leadership and it is Romans 12:19 "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

No one in who has been involved with hurting people, driving sheep away from the Lord, or setting themselves up with a do as I say not as I do lifestyle, or permitting senior staff to lead the church down the broad road to distruction will get away with anything. It is coming and remember God's timing is always perfect.

Saddened

















turi