Hey, Sam! Yup, you're right. They pretty much meet the "Top Ten." (That would be Part 3 of this series)

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AvenPhoenix
Here are some videos on Turning Point Church that are not satires.

Turning Point Church is a Cult - Part 1: The Story
[www.youtube.com]

Turning Point Church is a Cult - Part 2: Mike is a Liar
[www.youtube.com]

Turning Point Church is a Cult - Part 3: Cult Signs
[www.youtube.com]

avon phoenix I was wondering just what caused you to make the satire videos was there something mike did personally to you I notice no one was posting on here for a while and I hope its not because you are. we christians are funny people we dont want to see Mike punished, fail, be degraded, we just want him to repent of confess his stuff to humble himself or turn from the delusion he is under to return to doing things Gods way at least I want him to do that I guess I dont know about anyone else. I know I love mike I just dont like the things he does and says. could you please shed some light on the purpose of your videos. thanks

Hey, Nooneofanyimportance! Good to hear from you.

I can't speak for Sam and his videos, but I would like to discuss them with you.

As I look at them, from my perspective, they are a representation of what people looking in from the outside see when someone who is supposed to be representing Christ begins to represent themselves in Christ's name. Outsiders know what Christianity and Christ are SUPPOSED to be about, and when it becomes so painfully clear as to be laughable to an outsider that Christ and His teachings are being abused or twisted into unrecognizable applications for personal gain, such mockery is the natural result.

It has happened over and over again when supposed church leaders start behaving in ways that are clearly selfish and self-promoting. The list is long. Saturday Night Live has had a heyday with characters, such as Tammy Fay Baker and the likes. Sam Poling is our local SNL, if you will, mocking (not Christianity) but a larger than life Christian figure who claims to be an apostle and who is abusing his power.

How would you see it if you didn't know Pastor Mike personally but you saw him living in a big, expensive house and preaching on money continually, proselytizing at the schools, and posting self-aggrandizing video blogs?

Of course Sam Poling--a self-proclaimed atheist--should not be expected to embrace the same standards of speech and conduct to which I and my fellow Christians are called. But what he is expressing seems abundantly clear to me.

He seems to be shouting, "Hypocrisy! Aberrant expression of the Christian faith! Danger! and Get real, Mike!" I don't think his central message is far off from our own, here. I don't think his take on everything is accurate or represents my own thinking, but I think it's valuable for what it does reveal about an outside perspective.

We are supposed to live in such as way as to be above reproach when outsiders look in. So what has gone wrong? Is there something in the life of Mike, whom we love, that has gotten so out of whack that this reproach has come along? Is it an indicator? Or is it just a rogue guy having his fun at Mike's expense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2009 01:32PM by LearningPoint.

Learningpoint, I'm glad that you posted this. I think that I feel much like noone...I've not enjoyed the satire videos. I don't think I've watched a single one all the way through. I thought perhaps it was just me (and my lack of a sense of humor, lol). Honestly, I was relieved when I saw that others didn't like the videos either, and noone wasn't the first. But I think that your perspective is makes sense, I can understand it, even if I don't agree with the maker of the videos.

thanks learningpoint I was worried that others were not posting becasue avon was. I guess I thought this site was for present and former members of tp to voice their concerns and hurts. I just wanted to know what avon's relationship was with mike since he isnt a tp er or even Christian. I'd hate to think that I'm giveing someone who is perishing fuel to remain so. In truth avon Gods love is the most wonderful thing ive ever experienced and I have experienced many things Ive been addicted to much in my life, but Gods love satisfies, but some of his leaders are somewhat lacking. lol

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Brokenhearted
Learningpoint, I'm glad that you posted this. I think that I feel much like noone...I've not enjoyed the satire videos. I don't think I've watched a single one all the way through. I thought perhaps it was just me (and my lack of a sense of humor, lol). Honestly, I was relieved when I saw that others didn't like the videos either, and noone wasn't the first. But I think that your perspective is makes sense, I can understand it, even if I don't agree with the maker of the videos.

Yes, Nooneofanyimportance and Brokenhearted, I agree that the satires are difficult to watch. But I think even more painful than the profanity and exaggerations are the accurate insights--the nuggets of truth in them. This is what causes me to realize that the problems are not as veiled as we might think and that it's more a matter of people inside having gotten used to the dysfunctions than it is of having the problems appearing "out of left field." We've been the proverbial frogs in a kettle at TP.

In case you haven't viewed them, the last three video links Sam posted were not satires. They are straightforward talks; the third one was about how Sam sees Turning Point having all the marks of a cult. Some evidence he presents seemed skewed or exaggerated to me, but again, it's coming from an outsider's perspective. The truth probably lies somewhere between his viewpoint and my own. And since I think these three videos are his answer to our "why" questions, I feel they deserve a viewing to help us understand his motivation behind the satires.

I appreciate the way you both foster good discussion. I think it helps everyone to talk these things out. If you watch or have watched the last three, let me/us know what you think. Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2009 04:07AM by LearningPoint.

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nooneofanyimportence
thanks learningpoint I was worried that others were not posting becasue avon was. I guess I thought this site was for present and former members of tp to voice their concerns and hurts. I just wanted to know what avon's relationship was with mike since he isnt a tp er or even Christian. I'd hate to think that I'm giveing someone who is perishing fuel to remain so. In truth avon Gods love is the most wonderful thing ive ever experienced and I have experienced many things Ive been addicted to much in my life, but Gods love satisfies, but some of his leaders are somewhat lacking. lol

I too have wondered why others are not posting here. I can only speak for myself, but I have felt the need to *regroup* after the conflict here. I am not afraid to speak the truth, and I understand that sometimes that will offend others. But, I have to take care that when I post something here, a thought, a feeling, a warning, etc. that my motives are pure and my convictions are firm.

Learningpoint...I will watch the videos, though I can't do it from here, so it will be later....I'll get back to you on this.

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Brokenhearted

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nooneofanyimportence
thanks learningpoint I was worried that others were not posting becasue avon was. I guess I thought this site was for present and former members of tp to voice their concerns and hurts. I just wanted to know what avon's relationship was with mike since he isnt a tp er or even Christian. I'd hate to think that I'm giveing someone who is perishing fuel to remain so. In truth avon Gods love is the most wonderful thing ive ever experienced and I have experienced many things Ive been addicted to much in my life, but Gods love satisfies, but some of his leaders are somewhat lacking. lol

I too have wondered why others are not posting here. I can only speak for myself, but I have felt the need to *regroup* after the conflict here. I am not afraid to speak the truth, and I understand that sometimes that will offend others. But, I have to take care that when I post something here, a thought, a feeling, a warning, etc. that my motives are pure and my convictions are firm.

Perhaps the lesson to be learned from this is that when we seek to "limit" what people say here on a "public" forum by judging their motives for posting and assigning a "value" to their contribution, the end result will be fewer postings.

I liked some of Sams satires ,I thought some where real funny, but did not like the swear words. I think Pastor mike reaps what he sows, so he gets Sam satires as a reminder of how kooky he has become! Sam needs to team up with some of the people on the Forum so we can do a real good one. I want to play Dr. Increase and the helicopter guy, I could wear a dress and play Pastor Cyndi, I look pretty good in one I been told. But seriously Mike is not a leader and should not be the head of a church, because a good strong leader would not allow this garbage that has come into the church. He is only a follower who is swayed to and flow like the wind. God's word is truth and I may not always talk the way others on the forum would like me to, but I say whats on my heart. I love Pastor Mike, but I hate what he is doing to the Church body and I believe he is a coward for not debating the issues.