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LearningPoint

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Mville04
A new video for those who wish to watch it. It is about Mike's sermon on lions.

Turning Point Church - shut me up

Good analysis, Mville04. Your last observations at the end were powerful. Where is JESUS????

And since when are people with legitimate, thought-provoking, honest questions and challenges to be categorized as "the enemy," "the lions," or the devil at work? He just used that sermon to try to intimidate those who have not yet had the courage to admit they have questions. He called anyone with a question a complainer and a whiner. Wow!

And what on earth does Shazam have to do with ANYTHING in the Christian's life?

An immaturity and lack of depth and power to Mike's messages is growing. I remember when his messages used to be all about Jesus; now THOSE were worth listening to.

Todd Bentley used Shazam at the Lakeland Revival.

So Mike looks up to and admires the likes of Tony Cunningham, Ted Haggard, and Todd Bentley.

Great group of guys to model your life after, Mike.


Shazam...I think Gomer Pyle used that phrase often.

I believe Pastor Mike needs a lower salary and SOMA should be free of charge! Pastor Mike needs to renounce Tony Cunningham and give up all the false teaching(covering of the apostle, double honoring, spiritual parenting, shepherding movement(discipleship),New Apostolic Refromation, Word-faith movement, Health and wealth prosperity gospel,positive confession false teachings, etc. Pastor mike needs to stop inviting false teachers to preach from TPWOC pulpit. Pastor Mike needs to repent and renounce of all this all in writing and in front of the church! Pastor Mike needs to pull people from leadership positions who teach any of these false teachings! Elders should not have any connection with being on the payroll! Pastor Mike needs to be held accountable by Elders who are gifted in apologetics so that this doesn't happen again! Pastor Mike will have to under go counseling from a outside sourse for long period of time! Pastor Mike needs to meet with people he has hurt and say he is sorry! Pastor Mike needs to give up all outside side jobs and just be a Pastor! I am sure I can think of more. If this happens TPWOC will be saved and you would see real revival! If not TPWOC will become real messy and things will be worse! Then Pastor Mike could leave the State and take over some other church or start his own! Or the TP people who have left could start there own church! Whatever happens TPWOC is going to be an embarrassment to Marysville! For those of you who chose to stay and fight,Praise the Lord! For those who won't change, we love you and pray for your eyes to be opened! We will never give up the fight for truth!

I need to apologize to the forum for commenting on Mville04's video without actually listening to the sermon first. I appreciate hearing other people's perspectives on sermons and what's going on in the church, but I know better than to not check sources first before adding my "two cents." Sorry, guys! (And I'm not "dis-ing" you, Mville04. It's just that if I want to participate in the discussion, I should know what I'm talking about.)

I trust that Mville04's observation about Jesus not being in the sermon was accurate. If it was accurate, I appeal to Mike to get away from personal and/or popular "bunny trails" and get back to the person of Jesus Christ, and only Jesus Christ. I'll listen to the sermon right now, and if my take on the sermon is different than Mville04's, I'll apologize for anything else I have said that was amiss.

I'll get back to the forum on this.

My perspective on the sermon:

This sermon has a good emphasis on thanksgiving, with which I agree, but it's application to marriage (it's supposed to be a sermon on marriage) is thin, advocating that if we'd just speak nicer things to our spouse, and find better and gentler ways to communicate, we'd be less likely to see divorces. Oversimplified, but there's some truth in it, of course.

The sermon is in the context of marriage, and yes, Jesus is mentioned, but He is not the focus. Mike uses the story of Jesus and the pharisees to point out that complainers focus on the negative and don't give thanks. My apology to Mike and the people on the forum for presuming Jesus was not in the sermon. He was indeed there in the wings (as He has been for some time at TP) to again validate Mike's teaching.

The sermon majors on the benefits and necessity of thanksgiving via our WORDS (beating the same old drum of the idea that God chose the vehicle of words with which to create--a major Word-Faith, Positive Confession theme, which Mike has embraced and continually revisits). In the story of Daniel, Mike lands on the fact that God prospered Daniel. (We always get this "prospering" focus in the sermons along with the "word-faith" reminders.)

Early in the sermon, Mike talks about our enemy the devil as Scripure portrays him (the roaring lion seeking whom he may devor), but then later twists the idea into the roaring lion being the people around Turning Point and throughout the city who are opposing the move of God (presumably the "great move of God" in and through TPCWOC). This is the lion theme that Mville04 highlighted in his video.

I apologize, too, to you, Mike, for mistaking the "Shazam!" comment for something it was not. I was wrong about your intent, and this helps to illustrate why my failure to listen to the sermon before commenting on the video was wrong. Just to clarify, Mike was saying that God could have used an incantation, such as "Shazam!" or some other means of creating the universe, but instead He chose words. (Beyond that, the focus on the words and the whole word-faith spin, I do not subscribe to it.)

So that's what I heard (in a nutshell). And I have to say that after listening, I still wish the messages, in general, were majoring on who Jesus is instead of how we can prosper.

Learning Point, you are correct. I went back and listened again. Mike does mention that God named his son the Word; basically Jesus being the Word (big W). I completely missed it. But the emphasis was on the use of words to defeat the enemy, not in the glorification of the Christ.
Also I do not believe that the sermon was meant to be about marriage. I believe that the topic was a red herring; it is evident by the twisting of the definition of who the ‘lions’ were that indicate the ‘marriage’ he is talking about is between the Villamors and the flock, not husband and wife and the enemy in question is the enemy of the church not us as couples. He hides the true message in subterfuge, disguising it as something else. But we all know what is in the forefront of his mind and what is causing him concern and it surely isn’t the rash of divorces and breakups among the members.

Please allow me to put my view into perspective and keep in mind I could be wrong.
When I think about conflicts within a marriage I think of the usual suspects that have been proven to be the causes of friction.
Lack of attention to one’s spouse is a big one. Distancing oneself from the one he/she is supposed to love shows insensitivity and selfishness.
Another is finances; money, when selfishness turns to greed and possessiveness.
Yet another is straying from the oath of marriage when lustful desires come into play.
These are probably the biggest causes of separation and divorce.
So where are these in his psychological profiling and sermon? Nowhere.
He talks of “complaining and blaming”? My wife complains from time to time. That’s normal and is understood. Blaming has rarely come into play at all nor should it in a normal one on one relationship. These aren’t causations in a couple’s relationship; these are what are being made upon the leaders of TPC by some church members and people here; complaining and blaming.
Whining? This is what causes divorce? If anything it’s a symptom of a larger problem like showing a lack of attention to your spouse. Does this fit more into what now exists between the leaders of TPC and the flock? You bet!
Hostility, disgust, mocking? What kind of marriages is he talking about here? The lions are roaming around Marysville plotting to cause married couples to become hostile and begin mocking each other for no apparent reason? People need to wake up and smell what he’s shoveling. Just think about what causes friction in your marriage and then compare them with his message and see if this is what he is really talking about here. It doesn’t add up!

"Hostility, disgust, mocking? What kind of marriages is he talking about here? ... People need to wake up and smell what he’s shoveling. Just think about what causes friction in your marriage and then compare them with his message and see if this is what he is really talking about here. It doesn’t add up"

Amen Mville04, you hit the nail right on the head!!

Daughter of Dorcas

My story chapter 6 Thank you! I want to thank alot of people at TPWOC for being so wonderful to us. We will never forget when my wifes mom had a major stroke and we called for prayer and a angel at TP prayed outside the room at the care center! She was healed and able to come home to this day she is doing fine and that was three years ago. I want to thank all the youth leaders for their time and effort for helping shape my sons faith. They are to many to mention. But a few are Pastor Jeff Moors,Nathan, Mark, Conner and many others! I want to thank Pastor Jeff Barnes for being so friendly to us and for doing a fantastic job taking over for Pastor Mike when he was on sabbatical! I want to thank all the Tp people that helped out at summer jubilee it was a wonderfull experience for my family and I. The people at TP truly have a servents heart! Brent and Jarrod are amazing! Also all the people who volunteer teaching and helping out in the children programs. May the Lord shine his face upon you. Tp people where real friendly to us and would like to thank that special person who invited us to that first service four years ago! Last I would like to thank Pastor Mike and Cyndi for starting Tp and for all the times when they where really speaking for God! I was blessed by some of there sermons. My experience at TPWOC was almost always positive thats what makes it so hard to speak out against the false doctrine and false teaching that has creeped into TPWOC over the years. Maybe that is why I was sent there four years ago and wasn't in the inner circle. God knows! I believe TPWOC has drifted so far from the truth that we had no choice but to leave the church! I love all the people at TPWOC and pray and hope they will return to the God of the Bible! May we all have a wonderful Happy Easter! To be continue:



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2009 01:04AM by buddy.

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SeenTheLight
Does anyone know who this outside consultant is? Tony C. hired a consulting firm to revamp the image of RLc a few years back. Wouldn't it be interesting if Pastor Mike is using the same consultant? Worth looking into, I think...

Turning Point leadership this includes (Jeff and Kim Barns)

I believe we could have saved the congregation a pretty big chunk of change now that your leadership (Mike) is having a consulting firm poke around your ailing church.

Radiant Life church did the same thing...Tony assigned the task to one of the associate pastors then after they presented there findings Tony stood up in front of the whole church on a Friday night service and denounced their findings slandered an unnamed individual on staff or on the elder board for hiring them.
Before the consultants came there were dancers on the prayer porch. Tony invited the dancers back up after not having them there for about 2 weeks, knowing fully that he would no longer use them. Oh how he can use people and discard them when there talents and resources are no longer needed or all used up.

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BraveHeart October 04, 2008 10:10PM
If you go back into the history of the church when EGCC before they changed its name to Radiant Life there was a old rustic Cross in the front of the worship area of the building.
Even the first Radiant Life Logo represented the 'worship and praise of the Lord'.
I believe that when a church becomes mainstream and commercial the first thing they loose is the Cross.

Now my other point, do any of you remember when Tony hired an outside 'public image consulting group' to come in and make recommendations to appeal to the public and improve the reputation of RLc?

That is when the Mantel of Praise was stopped from dancing in front of the church during the worship times and the new logo was unveiled. I remember one Friday Night Worship time Tony made reference to the group and publicly denounced what they said about the Mantel of Praise and invited the dancers back up on stage but that was about the last we ever saw of them dancing.

I find it very TWO FACED to Slander and Denounce a company publicly yet still hold fast to there many recommendations including the very Yin-Yang symbolism.

Your thoughts.....



There right LIFE CHANGE TODAY they just don't tell you that if you don't toe there party line it will be a negative change for you.