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Truthtesty
To the Forum:
Truthtesty:
Truthtesty: I will need proof. It's very likely what your saying is a complete false hood. It is much more likely Thieme was paid by the Republican party to attack and smear liberals and Thieme tried to find a "moral christian reason" to do so. Afterall Thieme has associations with Ed Hunter (CIA) from CACC. Barbra Bush has attended Berachah church. Barbra Bush is married to ex-CIA and former president Bush. And both Bushs live within 2 miles of Berachah today. In effect, you could say that Thieme was the Fox News Channel before the Fox News Channel was the Fox News Channel. If you look at the current situtation in the middle east, you see the exact political agenda Thieme taught in the early 1970s being played out. Attack Iraq, Iran, and Syria. Dan Quayles wife attended Berachah. Who knows how many underlings in the current adminitration are former or current attendees of Berachah.
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tonyatl
genez:
Pastors are not called for peer review.
end genez
that is not true. the apostle paul tells us that scripture is not for private interpretation. interpretation is in fact subject to review by the body of christ, and through the working of the spirit an interpretation is generally accepted which is faithful to the intent of the of author and consistent with christ's own words. of course there is epistemlogical challenges to that, but within the one true holy catholic and apostolic church there is a process of working through the possible interpretations of given passages within a communal and ecumenical setting. we also have the tradition passed to us from christ himself for safekeeping of the truth once for all deposited with the saints. (please save any regurgitation of thieme's blasts about ecumencity for another time. my comment has nothing to do with that loaded term.)
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Truthtesty
To the Forum:
tonyatl: and from personal experience i remember thieme's dogmatic and hysterical assertions about the aorist tense as being "once for all" when it is nothing of the sort. fortunately christianity is more than greek grammar.
gene: That is not what the aorist tense is. Nor, did Thieme teach that. Aoarist tense has to do with something taking place in a point in time. Modifiers to the word can alter at what point, and if its to continue, etc. But, it is never intended in itself to be once and for all. You are possibly confusing the perfect tense, I believe. I attended another church where a Dallas graduate (one of Woolvard's prize students) did criticize some of Thieme's teaching. But, he never said what you are trying to tell others here. He also teaches from the Greek as his norm.
Truthtesty: gene your wrong. tonyatl you are correct. I remember Thieme saying that about the aorist tense. Also evidence from Dr. Wall:
Dr. Wall's doctoral dissertation: However, at times he tends to overstate the relevance of etymology28 and the significance of Greek grammar.29
28 For example, he presses the meaning of the Hebrew words for faith beyond their contextual meaning; see his book, The Faith-rest Life, pp. 53, 54.
29 For example, frequently Thieme emphasizes that the aorist tense always means "once-for-all" action. See article by Frank Stagg, "The Abused Aorist," The Journal of Biblical Literature 91 (June 1972): 222-31, for documentation that the aktionsart of the aorist tense is simple past action and does not necessarily demand "momentary, singular, or once and for all" significance. Stagg supported his conclusions with both specific scriptural examples and quotations from grammars by Ernest De Witt Burton and A. T. Robertson.
Truthtesty
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GeneZQuote
mile2
GeneZ:
Because several members of my family were followers of Thieme I was exposed to his teachings for over 30 years. I also attended 3 of his conferences as a favor to my family members. I realize that Thieme was more angry in some teachings than in others, but always there was an excessive and unreasonable anger displayed. As I pointed out in my earlier post, even when he read scripture the tone and inflection of his voice was filled with a bitter anger.
Anger in and of itself is not a bad thing. After all, it is a God given natural emotion. But there is an appropriate time and place to show anger. And it should be under our willful control. When children are toddlers they often lose control of their anger and throw temper tantrums. But with maturity they learn to keep their emotions in check. If used in the proper way the emotions God gave us should always serve a purpose and be profitable in some way. Unhealthy people use excessive anger as a means to intimidate and instill fear. (I did notice when I attended Thieme's conferences that those I went with were so fearful that they or someone in our group would accidentally cough loudly or move too much in their seat that they gave several warnings regarding the acceptable behavior. During the teaching they sat totally motionless outside the constant taking of notes, fearing they might offend Thieme and draw down his public wrath on them.)
Thieme's excessive angry rants and sarcastic humor degrading the "fundy preachers who taught subjective nonsense to religious self righteous believers" among other groups was shockingly inappropriate to many listeners. This isn't a matter of personality type. In any group of believers there are a variety of personality types, from the more outspoken to the more reserved and quiet, from the enthusiastic and humorous to those of a more serious bent. But excessive, inappropriate displays of anger are a sign of a personality disorder.
Being in the military does not excuse this behavior in any way. I realize that many soldiers who have been in combat later suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome and have problems controlling their anger, a condition for which they are urged to seek help. But Thieme never served in combat. I grew up in a military family where my father made it his career. I have observed and heard many high ranking officers speak on TV and elsewhere about extremely critical matters, and I am always struck by the one personality trait they all seem to have. And that is a tremendous mental discipline over their emotions and the ability to stay calm when facing very serious threats. These are true patriots. You mentioned the political degeneration of the Carter era and the Cold War, but every period of our history has had its trials and evils to overcome, including the present time.
You mentioned that Thieme was an answer to your prayer. Well, I have heard that said by other followers of Thieme, and strangely enough by another group. Almost every Morman who comes to my front door says they found the Morman faith after prayer and they always encourage me to pray and see if I will be led to recognize the truth of the Book of Morman. I really feel compassion for those young, smiling faces because they are very sincere. But they are sincerely wrong.
Thieme's childhood was, as a matter of fact based on court papers taken under oath, a psychological pit of quicksand. I am sorry for that, but I think it helped produce in Thieme a person of great character flaws. (See my posts on p.62 and p.65.)
mile2
You are all going to believe what you want to believe. The fact that many a pastor in the United States was listening to Thieme means nothing to you. Professor Stan Ashby means nothing to you because he does not serve your desired outcome. The man was Professor of Ancient Languages - Harvard.
Like I said before, he did not always agree with Thieme. But, he recommended him to me. Who agrees 100% with another in the same field? Its healthy when we do not.
Now, as far as that biography? NOTHING was verified.
I contacted the author directly. Here is his response.
Thank you for your email. In answer to your question let me say first of all I believe that for men and women who significantly impact a segment of our society it is beneficial to chronicle their lives for the historical record. The purpose of my biography of Robert B. Thieme Jr. was to record as accurately as possible the facts concerning his life and those of his ancestors. I did not evaluate or comment on his character or Biblical teachings in any way. I also decided not to include personal interviews in order to eliminate any biased viewpoints, either for or against Col Thieme.
My aim was to present all the factual data available, thoroughly documenting their sources, which were for the most part newspaper accounts, other books and articles, and official documents of public record. I'm sure every person reading my book, such as the reviewer you mentioned, will form his or her own opinions, which will be many and varied. But the book itself does not present any opinions or make any judgments on the factual data.
I hope this answers your question.
Sincerely,
C.G. Hunt
> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 01:10:18 -0700
> From: .............
> To: cg-hunt@hotmail.com
> Subject: Contact Us Requested
>
> You have received a contact request from a visitor to your storefront:
Now. if that man was a reporter for a newspaper? He'd be fired for publishing before verifying his facts.
He said he did not do any follow ups, or interviews. The data he collected he did find any verification for.
If Robert Thieme did not have Alzheimer's and his wife in a nursing home, this man most likely would be sued.
And? If this man is so concerned about "men" who impact Christianity? Has he published any other books about other such men? Any other books at all? NO.
In Christ, GeneZ