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GeneZ

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mile2
In May of that same year Thieme's Uncle Frederick had filed an affidavit wherein he described her to have certain "mental disorders and delusions from religious fanaticism."

From this it can be seen that Thieme's mother was extremely angry, physically violent, emotionally abusive, and displaying some sort of religious fanaticism, to the point of being certifiably insane. Being raised in such an atmosphere would most definately have a profound impact on the phycological development of a child. Thieme was 21 when the divorce complaint was filed, so subtracting 6 years we find he was about 15 when his mother's mental health rendered their home life unendurable.

Unfortunately Thieme seems to have absorbed that anger into his own personality, as so often happens in dysfunctional families.

mile2

It may explain why Thieme had such a strong dislike for fanatical Christians of that type. I was exposed to the same kind of person in my younger years as a Christian, and it was one of the reasons I identified so quickly with RBT's strong words against fundamental fanaticism. That might explain why he had insight into the pain they can inflict on those whom they try to influence, and how they do it. It may also explain why he was so down on legalistic bullies and wanted to protect the privacy of his congregation members. Interesting.

And, it may also explain why his teachings on child abuse are so in depth and helpful, because its truthful. Interesting, again.

God turns cursings into blessings. Did you not learn that? Its our hardships that make us strong in faith if we do not impugn the character of God for allowing such things to happen.


As far as Thieme's anger? I saw the exact same type of anger when I studied under Dr. Carlton Fredericks. Why? Well? He was controversial. The powerful drug industry was attacking him for his stand on nutrition. And, he turned out to have been right about many things he claimed.

What he was ridiculed for 35 years ago is now to be found in many supermarkets throughout the United States today. Yet? At that time? He was crucified with character assasination from those who had a vested interest in keeping the status quo with poor nutrition and solving what it causes with drugs. Look at all the obese people today. He warned this could happen.

Yet, he was attacked by certain people who saw him as a threat. Same exact anger I witnessed to first hand. Was he abused as a child? Dysfunctional family? If that's the case we have a huge part of an entire generation of children who are going to be angry all the time in the future...

I witnessed to that type of anger first hand. Carlton Fredericks was a very intelligent man. Just like Thieme.


In Christ, GeneZ

GeneZ:

You said "It may explain why Thieme had such a strong dislike for fanatical Christians of that type." Of what type? Thieme's mother was described as having "religious fanaticism", period. You go on to describe it as "fundamental" and legalistic". We don't know what sort of religious fanaticism she displayed. Do you see that by making assumptions, you lead yourself down a false path?

You say "God turns cursings into blessings." A more accurate statement would be "God CAN turn cursings into blessings." But far more often than not, abuse breeds abuse, or severely psychologically damaged victims. It all depends on the individual.

I have no idea whether Dr. Carlton Fredericks was abused as a child or came from a dysfunctional family. I don't see how that has any relevance to Thieme's life at all. Do you question whether Thieme was abused as a child or that he came from a dysfunctional family? Thieme's father said his wife was physically violent, emotionally abusive, destroyed all the happiness of his home, and made his life unendurable. She was later committed to an insane asylum where she spent the remainder of her life. You can call it what you want, but I think any psychiatrist would call it dysfunctional and abusive.

You say Thieme is an intelligent man. I agree with you. Is intelligence a measure of character? What about Hitler, Stalin, Dr. Joseph Mengele, etc.? And of course no one can even approach the intelligence of Satan.

mile2

gene: And? Thieme was a cult?

Don't you realize what you just said?


Former president Bush? Dan Quayle's wife?

With the left media breathing down their throats?


There are background checks that must be made for this sort of thing to avoid political suicide.



Truthtesty:

They should have done a better background check.



Truthtesty

mile2:
Do you question whether Thieme was abused as a child or that he came from a dysfunctional family?
end mile2

this is such an important question in coming out of cults and leaving abusive personalities. it's the question of self awareness. i for years thought that my parents, thieme, and other strong willed and absusive personalities were normal and right. i always defended that kind of behavior. the authority figure was always right and the subject always wrong. anyone who claimed abuse or dysfunctionality was a big cry baby.

until someone can see others as abused he will never see himself as abused. he will apply narcisistic measures to justify, rationalize, defend the abused or disadvantaged person's state. he will always abuse others or support those who do. this lack self knowledge on the part of most thiemites is sad and discouraging. and if one can not recognize that thieme was abused he will always be subject to thieme's abuses.

and on this note, i have to make a plea to those who have extra money to please give money to organizations providing shoes for orphans....i could not stop crying today over the poverty of these little children who have no one to provide for them...i felt so little that god has given me so much materially and yet i did not clothe christ until today....please for the sake of jesus give to the least of these....this and not bible class is true religion....

tonyatl:

Simply because Thieme's politics were conservative and hawkish doesn't mean he was involved with the CIA.

Please refrain from conspiracy theories.

GeneZ:

You touched upon the issue of "peer review."

Please refresh my memory.

Who was Thieme actually accountable to regarding his teachings?

Was he obliged to be reviewed by the authorities of a denomination?

Or was Thieme independent and therefore not really accountable to any pastoral peers and/or authority for the purpose of any review?

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rrmoderator
tonyatl:

Simply because Thieme's politics were conservative and hawkish doesn't mean he was involved with the CIA.

Please refrain from conspiracy theories.

Actually, it reveals a personality trend to think such conspiracies. It reveals a lack of objectivity in analysis.

I found it quite revealing when such an outlandish claim was made. And, to be quite frank, I have seen this entire thread as being a conspiracy theory to begin with. This is issue of being a culty is being based almost soley upon theological opinion, not what Thieme did as to mind control in a manner that reveals a cult.


He controlled the protocol of how you were to behave while sitting in church. If you wanted to disrupt in a way that would distract another from listening? He would not tolerate such behavior. He took his teaching seriously.


Some viewed that as controlling, and immediately associated that with being a cult, because cults practice mind control. They had been used to sweet speaking pastors who were always looking to preach to the choir. Not Thieme. He was there to teach what he thought was the truth. And, you were always free to take it, or leave it. But, he demanded that you give him a listen with good manners. No shouting out. No talking in tongues. No poking the person next to you during the message as to distract another, or to interfere with their right to privacy. Hardly a cult. Yet, to some, it was not what they had been accustomed to finding in church. Personally, I found it very welcome relief. And, he always made you think.


In the church, not even membership cards were filled out. Thieme wanted all his listeners to have the freedom to privacy. To come and go as they please. That is the exact opposite of the group control cults exert on its subjects. No one followed you home to make sure you did what was taught.

He stipulated, no one was to coerce another. If reported, those trying to coerce the volition of another was to be removed from the congregation. The one exception, was parents over children. Just like my parents did with me. They made me attend Jewish services and to observe holidays, even though I found them without meaning personally. Had a few fights over it, but I had to do what they told me. Thieme taught parents have that right, but not to abuse it. Stupid parents are to be found everywhere. That was not Thieme's fault if there were abuses. He taught against it.


He was a diametric opposite to what goes on in cults. All you would have to do would be to order some messages on the privacy of the believer, and the thought of the mind control found in cults would be a non-issue. What I gather from some here, they hated the discipline and order that Thieme demanded of the congregation while listening to him. Yet, you will hear lot's of laughter at times, because for the most part, the congregation was normally relaxed. I had a high school teacher like that. No talking in class, etc... or you were sent to the principles office. Theime taught with the same mind set. Hardly a cult. But it really bugged some during those years of the hippy days of "do your own thing."



So be it. A person who could dream up such a conspiracy theory reveals that the thinking is not objective. I have noted that, as well as the rants in the History Channel forum, where we are told that one of the key people here attacking Thieme thinks Christianity, is for fools. Where is the objectivity?


In another forum where Truthtesy followed me to harass: he tried to poison my reputation from the start by bringing up Thieme there in direct relation to myself. It is a Christian forum, for Christians who study the Bible. Once they were show the History Channel post they totally rejected him as having any credibility. They also saw the issue as being a matter of doctrinal differences, not one of being a cult.


But? To the moderators here? Who are not well trained in theological matters? They can not understand the issue well enough to see how unfounded the charges are. And, if they understood how self righteous Christians react to anything they are told to believe? (I believe you do know that) You can see why some were quick to use the word cult. Thieme even said that some of the religious right would see the church as a cult. Because he would always refute their taboos and self righteous concepts. For those of us who hated being in such churches? He was a welcome relief in that way, too. We could drink in moderation. Watch TV. And, if we should sin? We knew we could be forgiven with out self flagellation and breast beating. Cults, in contrast, wish for unducing a sense of guilt to keep one under their control. Just the opposite to Thieme's teaching.


Now, The United States Government paid Thieme to preach what he did?

What kind of mind thinks that way? Rational?


Just look at that History Channel link. Rational thinking?


Truthesty's testimony against all Christainity


Its relevant to this thread, sir. It reveals what we are dealing with. I also have a copy to my hard drive in case that thread is ever removed.


In Christ, GeneZ

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rrmoderator
GeneZ:

You touched upon the issue of "peer review."

Please refresh my memory.

Who was Thieme actually accountable to regarding his teachings?

Was he obliged to be reviewed by the authorities of a denomination?

Or was Thieme independent and therefore not really accountable to any pastoral peers and/or authority for the purpose of any review?

He ran an independent church. His training was conservative Baptist. There are many independent churches in the United States. Some are good. Some are bad. Demoninations create a bureaucratic atmosphere that thwarts insight and creativity. Luther was a victim of such a church. He too, was called a cult in his day. He was not correct in all he taught. But, what he corrected was essential for Biblical Christianity to survive.

Thieme opposed courageously self righteous closed mindedness to be found in religion. Being called a cult by some comes as no surprise. Like I said. Order a few messages for yourself. Do not ask anyone here what to order.


Thieme's credentials


See for yourself what all the hubbub is all about. My Jewish father (who was a founder of a local conservative synagogue) found Thieme to be a teacher he could respect. He disowned me when I became a Christian. But, later on, found Thieme as someone who made sense. Many pastors listened to his messages. Some reacted like we see here. Others were made to think. That's the story of life.



In Christ, GeneZ

GeneZ:

Again, you seem to be here expressing a rather narrow and single-minded approach yourself, i.e. to defend Thieme and his teachings.

And apparently, you came to this thread with that explicit purpose and agenda.

See [www.culteducation.com]

And also [forum.culteducation.com]

The Ross Institute has not labeled Thieme and his following a "cult."

That is a false argument.

Thanks for answering my questions.

Per your statements Thieme had no meaningful accountability through any denomination, which might include a peer review process.

And as you admit he was controversial and others denounced his teachings, as on this thread.

He fits well within the "controversial" category discussed in the disclaimer.

And Thieme's following also seems to fit the category of a "personality-driven" group.

Despite you comparison to "Luther," Thieme seems to be barely a footnote within Christianity and of little real significance, outside of those that followed him, he seems rather obscure historically.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2007 01:13AM by rrmoderator.

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tonyatl
genez:
It's quite possible that political powers that be within the USA, paid Thieme to teach as he did. For political persuasion of christians within the United States."

Really, now? That's why we saw his name being promoted everywhere in the USA? TV newscasts, and articles written up all over the place? Eh?


Come on now. Be reasonable. Most Christians never heard of him. The logical choice would have been Billy Graham. Or, have Billy Graham endorse him while on crusades.



In Christ, GeneZ

GeneZ:

You make a very good point.

Thieme historically is a relatively obscure and unimportant preacher.

He seems to have made very little lasting impact, other than upon those directly involved and/or affected by his ministry.