Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
GeneZ
()
Date: November 10, 2007 01:06AM
Quote
Truthtesty
To the Forum:
Prof. Dr. Johannes Behm is the 4th professor listed in my previous post. Evidence so far shows Behm was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party. More research is due on Johannes Behm(Göttingen) and the Nazi party.
Truthtesty
Many did make open confessions to stay alive. And? The point is? Werner Von Braun was a Hitler apparent Hitler supporter, too. He was a Christian. Do you know who he was?
This is getting off the point. The point is. What he taught on the meaning of blood. Was he wright? Was he wrong? Many a brilliant person submitted to Hitler during that era. Not all knew his intentions when they did.
And, if you forgotten? For a time in his life, David fought on the side that opposed the Jews. During the years Saul was pursuing him. Remember? His allegiance 'appeared' to be with the king who eventually killed King Saul and his sons.
By record on paper, some could say David was not qualified to be king of Israel. That is, if they only looked at things on the surface. We do not know what Johanns Behm actually thought. If you can find a biography that accurately describes his situation? We really do not know what motivated him at that time. In the beginning Hitler was seen as a great leader to most Germans. Many did not even know his intent for the Jews, especially when Hitler was first rising to power. They saw him as the savior of the father land.
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
GeneZ
()
Date: November 10, 2007 04:25AM
Quote
mile2
From this it can be seen that Thieme's mother was extremely angry, physically violent, emotionally abusive, and displaying some sort of religious fanaticism, to the point of being certifiably insane. Being raised in such an atmosphere would most definately have a profound impact on the phycological development of a child. Thieme was 21 when the divorce complaint was filed, so subtracting 6 years we find he was about 15 when his mother's mental health rendered their home life unendurable.
Unfortunately Thieme seems to have absorbed that anger into his own personality, as so often happens in dysfunctional families.
mile2
How long did you listen to Thieme?
There was a period of several years when he was angry in much he said. Did you notice it was during the time drugs and crime, and liberalism... and the anti-war hippy movement was in the headlines? Thieme was highly patriotic. Those who were angry too, appreciated his anger at the very teachings we used to scream at for being so stupid. Yet, the same teachings were gulped down by stupid legalistic fundies like candy.
Did you know that there were several ongoing inner conflicts of cliques within the ministry, attacking his message at that time?
It must have been his childhood? He was a military type! They get that way by nature when riled up by a wrong they perceive. Having served in the army, I can vouch that Thieme's personality was a norm, not an exception. For a pastor it was not a norm. And, Thieme told us he could not understand why God chose him to have the gift with his given personality.
Did you notice? .... After that period stabilized? He returned back to teaching in a calm manner? Just like he had taught before that period in Berachah's history?
Listen to his later tapes (and earlier). He was usually calm and relaxed when he taught. Yet, he was not one to suffer the thinking of fools. That is why I liked him so much at that time. I was seeking answers, and all I was hearing from most pulpits was superficial and legalistic. He was angry at what angered me, too. And, many others who followed his teaching agreed.
Like I said earlier. My Jewish dad used to mock preachers to me. But, when introduced to Thieme, he could respect, and did. Thieme's teaching on anti-semitism was a masterpiece. And his teaching (from the Hebrew) on the history of the Jews was also excellent. My dad, being of WWll vintage, had no problem with Thieme's approach. It was the hippy love generation, and the always smiling, sunshine fundy, type of Christians that found Thieme's approach apprehensible. As for me? It was a welcome break away from all the nonsense and political correctness we were being conditioned for.
Please, pick up some tapes of a later period. See if he was always angry like he was during the time you witnessed to. And, during the time he was angry? I was, too! At the same kind of stupidity that was becoming prevalent in our nation that was being transformed right before our eyes. That's why he was angry most of the time. It was over the political degeneration (Carter was in office at that time) The Cold War pacifism... and fundy preachers who taught subjective nonsense to religious self righteous believers.
I was angry, too. And, very glad I found Thieme. Which, by the way, happened as an answer to prayer. Living many states away from Texas: his teaching was dropped in my lap. And, after a prayer for truth for every area of my life.
He was recommended to me several years before that. And, had been exposed to some of his teachings through members of another church. But, it was not until after I prayed that I was given his teachings. I was surprised to see that was to be my answer to prayer. It was totally unexpected.
In Christ, GeneZ
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: November 10, 2007 09:18AM
To gene:
1st of all you need to apologize for falsely accusing me of being "absolutely wrong". IT WAS YOU WHO WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
Truthtesty
1st of all you need to apologize for falsely accusing me of being "absolutely wrong". IT WAS YOU WHO WAS ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
Truthtesty
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
tonyatl
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:21PM
Quote:
GeneZ
I have been told by someone (Dallas TS graduate) who taught from the Greek and Hebrew, that very few are qualified to evaluate Thieme properly.
could you tell me further about your knowledge of stan ashby? did he make this recommendation of thieme to you personally and if so, when? did he publish any remarks extolling bob thieme's works?
my experience has been quite the opposite. the last account i read was of a thiemite who was so enthralled with thiemes pseudo-intellect that he asked his greek professor to come to bible class with him. the greek professor was underwhelmed by his sophomoric grasp of greek and many errors. and from personal experience i remember thieme's dogmatic and hysterical assertions about the aorist tense as being "once for all" when it is nothing of the sort. fortunately christianity is more than greek grammar.
for those wanting to identify the signs of a cult, the comment i quoted above is a nice example. the leader is above reproach, he is too brilliant for anyone to evaluate him or undertand him; he therefore must be trusted as is. "you've been telling me you're a genius since you were 17...."
fortunately where true scholarship is vibrant, peer reviewed journals and evaluations are available to assess the merits of someone else's research. after nearly 20 centuries of biblical scholarship, we can be confident that bob thieme has brought nothing of substance to the table except a lot of preening and prancing on stage.
fortunately, orthodoxy does not prescribe for us this pedantic, mechanistic, scholastic form of christianity. the lord expects us to live a life which is day by day learning of him and his ways. you fed me when i was hungry, you gave me raiment when i was naked, you visited me when i was in jail. these will be saved when the lord gathers in his sheep.
i fear and pity for those who think that christianity and worship are bible class. bob thieme is outside the great fold of christian leaders and is a wolf in sheep's clothing. the lord is robed in majesty and nothing thieme ever did or said gave witness to the lord or his way.
as a side note, i was much attracted to thieme for his politics and no-fault salvation. however, i learned that the lord has something more important than a political agenda or a 12 step program for salvation.
GeneZ
I have been told by someone (Dallas TS graduate) who taught from the Greek and Hebrew, that very few are qualified to evaluate Thieme properly.
could you tell me further about your knowledge of stan ashby? did he make this recommendation of thieme to you personally and if so, when? did he publish any remarks extolling bob thieme's works?
my experience has been quite the opposite. the last account i read was of a thiemite who was so enthralled with thiemes pseudo-intellect that he asked his greek professor to come to bible class with him. the greek professor was underwhelmed by his sophomoric grasp of greek and many errors. and from personal experience i remember thieme's dogmatic and hysterical assertions about the aorist tense as being "once for all" when it is nothing of the sort. fortunately christianity is more than greek grammar.
for those wanting to identify the signs of a cult, the comment i quoted above is a nice example. the leader is above reproach, he is too brilliant for anyone to evaluate him or undertand him; he therefore must be trusted as is. "you've been telling me you're a genius since you were 17...."
fortunately where true scholarship is vibrant, peer reviewed journals and evaluations are available to assess the merits of someone else's research. after nearly 20 centuries of biblical scholarship, we can be confident that bob thieme has brought nothing of substance to the table except a lot of preening and prancing on stage.
fortunately, orthodoxy does not prescribe for us this pedantic, mechanistic, scholastic form of christianity. the lord expects us to live a life which is day by day learning of him and his ways. you fed me when i was hungry, you gave me raiment when i was naked, you visited me when i was in jail. these will be saved when the lord gathers in his sheep.
i fear and pity for those who think that christianity and worship are bible class. bob thieme is outside the great fold of christian leaders and is a wolf in sheep's clothing. the lord is robed in majesty and nothing thieme ever did or said gave witness to the lord or his way.
as a side note, i was much attracted to thieme for his politics and no-fault salvation. however, i learned that the lord has something more important than a political agenda or a 12 step program for salvation.
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: November 10, 2007 12:55PM
To gene:
gene Truthtesy... I already corrected that myself. Its on page 83. You comeback was on page 84. The lag in getting things posted here can cause things to become disjointed in flow. And Read what I documented about Behm not being one of Hitler's theologians. Only Kittel was documented as being so. There were a good number theologians in Germany at that time. Not all spoke out against Hitler. Yet, not all endorsed him either. Do you have documentation to show Behm was one of Hitler's theologians? The documentation I have leaves him of the list which Kittel is on.....
In Christ, GeneZ
Truthtesty: Not exactly. You can run, but you can't hide. You "corrected that" yourself to a point, but you have not apologized for your falsely accusing me of being "absolutely wrong", which I was not. You were absolutely wrong about Johannes Behm in Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New testament, not me. Also, you still have the name incorrect it is Johannes Behm, not Johann Behm.
Which by using facts, not prejudiced opinion, I previously proved you wrong:
Truthtesty: No gene it is you who is absolutely wrong. It is not your Johann Behm that you posted in your article, it is Johannes Behm as I said it was (posted: November 04, 2007 04:05):
Behm, Johannes
(1883–1948). Prot. theol.; b. Doberan, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Ger.; prof. Königsberg 1920, Göttingen 1923, Berlin 1935. Coed. Das Neue Testament Deutsch. Other works include Die Handauflegung im Urchristentum; Der Begriff Diatheke in Neuen Testament; Die Bekehrung des Paulus; Die mandäische Religion und das Christenturn.
[216.88.180.29] .
HERE'S THE PROOF!
In Theological Dictionary of the New Testament by Gerhard Kittel, on page XV of of Volume I (1964) it has a list of contributing authors. The title is Contributers. Gerhard Kittel is listed as editor from Tübingen. The 3rd on the list of contributing authors is Johannes Behm, Göttingen. Johannes Behm is the only Behm listed FOR THE ENTIRE VOLUME. So as I said previously and now have proven it, It is the same J. Behm that was the author of "Das Neue Testament Deutsch"
As Stated previously on November 04, 2007 04:05
Behm, Johannes
(1883–1948). Prot. theol.; b. Doberan, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Ger.; prof. Königsberg 1920, Göttingen 1923, Berlin 1935. Coed. Das Neue Testament Deutsch. Other works include Die Handauflegung im Urchristentum; Der Begriff Diatheke in Neuen Testament; Die Bekehrung des Paulus; Die mandäische Religion und das Christenturn.
[216.88.180.29] .
Kittle makes many references to Behm. I identified the correct Behm from Kittle's TDNT page 124 Vol VI references Behm Apk. (NT Deutsch I) (Das Neue Testament Deutsch). Kittle's TDNT page 500 Vol IV references J. Behm, NT Deutsch III 1935 (Das Neue Testament Deutsch). It might be possible, however, I have not had the time to research to see if Kittle makes any references Johann Behm (1686-1753).
Truthtesty
gene Truthtesy... I already corrected that myself. Its on page 83. You comeback was on page 84. The lag in getting things posted here can cause things to become disjointed in flow. And Read what I documented about Behm not being one of Hitler's theologians. Only Kittel was documented as being so. There were a good number theologians in Germany at that time. Not all spoke out against Hitler. Yet, not all endorsed him either. Do you have documentation to show Behm was one of Hitler's theologians? The documentation I have leaves him of the list which Kittel is on.....
In Christ, GeneZ
Truthtesty: Not exactly. You can run, but you can't hide. You "corrected that" yourself to a point, but you have not apologized for your falsely accusing me of being "absolutely wrong", which I was not. You were absolutely wrong about Johannes Behm in Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New testament, not me. Also, you still have the name incorrect it is Johannes Behm, not Johann Behm.
Which by using facts, not prejudiced opinion, I previously proved you wrong:
Truthtesty: No gene it is you who is absolutely wrong. It is not your Johann Behm that you posted in your article, it is Johannes Behm as I said it was (posted: November 04, 2007 04:05):
Behm, Johannes
(1883–1948). Prot. theol.; b. Doberan, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Ger.; prof. Königsberg 1920, Göttingen 1923, Berlin 1935. Coed. Das Neue Testament Deutsch. Other works include Die Handauflegung im Urchristentum; Der Begriff Diatheke in Neuen Testament; Die Bekehrung des Paulus; Die mandäische Religion und das Christenturn.
[216.88.180.29] .
HERE'S THE PROOF!
In Theological Dictionary of the New Testament by Gerhard Kittel, on page XV of of Volume I (1964) it has a list of contributing authors. The title is Contributers. Gerhard Kittel is listed as editor from Tübingen. The 3rd on the list of contributing authors is Johannes Behm, Göttingen. Johannes Behm is the only Behm listed FOR THE ENTIRE VOLUME. So as I said previously and now have proven it, It is the same J. Behm that was the author of "Das Neue Testament Deutsch"
As Stated previously on November 04, 2007 04:05
Behm, Johannes
(1883–1948). Prot. theol.; b. Doberan, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Ger.; prof. Königsberg 1920, Göttingen 1923, Berlin 1935. Coed. Das Neue Testament Deutsch. Other works include Die Handauflegung im Urchristentum; Der Begriff Diatheke in Neuen Testament; Die Bekehrung des Paulus; Die mandäische Religion und das Christenturn.
[216.88.180.29] .
Kittle makes many references to Behm. I identified the correct Behm from Kittle's TDNT page 124 Vol VI references Behm Apk. (NT Deutsch I) (Das Neue Testament Deutsch). Kittle's TDNT page 500 Vol IV references J. Behm, NT Deutsch III 1935 (Das Neue Testament Deutsch). It might be possible, however, I have not had the time to research to see if Kittle makes any references Johann Behm (1686-1753).
Truthtesty
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
GeneZ
()
Date: November 10, 2007 03:09PM
Quote
Truthtesty
To gene:
gene Truthtesy... I already corrected that myself. Its on page 83. You comeback was on page 84. The lag in getting things posted here can cause things to become disjointed in flow. And Read what I documented about Behm not being one of Hitler's theologians. Only Kittel was documented as being so. There were a good number theologians in Germany at that time. Not all spoke out against Hitler. Yet, not all endorsed him either. Do you have documentation to show Behm was one of Hitler's theologians? The documentation I have leaves him of the list which Kittel is on.....
In Christ, GeneZ
Truthtesty: Not exactly. You can run, but you can't hide. You "corrected that" yourself to a point, but you have not apologized for your falsely accusing me of being "absolutely wrong"[/color]
If that what you want?
Ok... I'm sorry for falsely accusing you of something you did not say.
Now, let's move on.
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
Truthtesty
()
Date: November 10, 2007 06:01PM
gene quote And Read what I documented about Behm not being one of Hitler's theologians. Only Kittel was documented as being so. There were a good number theologians in Germany at that time. Not all spoke out against Hitler. Yet, not all endorsed him either. Do you have documentation to show Behm was one of Hitler's theologians? The documentation I have leaves him of the list which Kittel is on.....
Truthtesty: You call that research? Again like Thieme, you are trying to force a premature conclusion without careful research. Corrupt Doktor Kittel is not enough? hah Doktor Kittle was the editor and corrupt Nazi composer which gathered together from the 3 authors Johannes Behm, C A Anderson,and John Schneider for (4)"haima" Kittel TDNT vol I p. 174 footnote 17 (which included the infamous "pregnant verbal symbol" phrase). I just showed you one article that Johannes Behm was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party. Was it forced coercion or was Johannes Behm a willing participant in Hitler's corrupt totalitarian regime? It remains to be seen as research goes on. Your book is one limited preview. It seems you are suggesting that since Johannes Behm is not listed(in that limited preview of that 1 book), that he can be safely eliminated as a corrupt Nazi who supported Hitler. That is pathetic logic and certainly not the case as the article I have already shown includes Johannes Behm as supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party National Socialist German Workers Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP. Certainly there were lesser corrupt underlings than the more well known corrupt Doktor Kittel. How many? We are going to get a good idea. Was Johannes Behm one of them? It appears he was.
Doktor Johannes Behm is associated with all 3 of Hitler's Theologians: Doktor Paul Althaus, Doktor Emanuel Hirsch, and Doktor Gerhard Kittel.
Doktor Emanual Hirsch is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians.
Notice in my last article:
"Chronik/Rückblick mit scheinbaren Analogien und ohne Anspruch auf Vollständigkeit"
"Chronicle review with apparent analogies and without claim to totality"
Leipzig, festival organization "with Adolf Hitler for the German people honor, freedom and right!" with "Confession of the professors and intellectual at the German universities and universities to Adolf Hitler and the national socialistic country signed by Dr. Friedrich Alverdes, Prof. Dr. Georg Anschütz, Prof. Dr. Adolf Bach, Prof. Dr. Johannes Behm, ... Dr. Emanuel Hirsch, .... Prof. Dr. Emanuel Hirsch: aus that all now the last that I have to say: We have one Leader, who has always and every time this well known, that he as nothing then a tool of the creator All things knows itself. It knows, the providence lets do it the service, it stands over it and directs it...
Doktor Johannes Behm is associated with Doktor Emanuel Hirsch. Both professors confessed support for Hitler and the Nazi party.(National Socialist German Workers Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP)
Doktor Paul Althaus is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians.
Paul Althaus and Johannes Behm wrote a book together. "Das Neue Testament deutsch" Johannes Behm (Autor), Peter Stuhlmacher (Autor), Gerhard Friedrich (Autor), Paul Althaus (Autor)
[www.amazon.de]
Doktor Kittle is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians. Doktor Kittel references Doktor Paul Althaus in at Kittel's TDNT in at least Vol VI p. 135. Kittle also references "Das Neue Testament deutsch" Johannes Behm (Autor), Peter Stuhlmacher (Autor), Gerhard Friedrich (Autor), Paul Althaus (Autor), in Kittel's TDNT.
Also note: The article you showed on Hitler's Theologians is a limited preview, not the entire book. It might be possible that Behm is listed on the non-previewed pages. And again your are more interested in political spin to defend Thieme, than honest research.
People had/have a right to know about Hitler's Theologians before referencing Kittel's TDNT. (or trusting so called theologians who do reference Kittel's TDNT.)
Also for those intrested in the film, you can ILL this from your library.
Theologians Under Hitler
64 minutes
Source: Vital Visuals
This film introduces viewers to Paul Althaus, Emanuel Hirsch, and Gerhard Kittel, three Christian scholars who were also outspoken supporters of Hitler and the Nazi party. In 1933 Althaus spoke of Hitler’s rise as “a gift and miracle of God.” Hirsch saw 1933 as a “sunrise of divine goodness.” Kittel began working for the Nazis to find a “moral” rationale for the destruction of European Jewry. The film asks: how could Christian theologians justify the Nazi ideology and how does the scholarship of this period affect Christian theology today?
[www.worldcat.org]
[ssl17.chi.us.securedata.net]
Truthtesty
Truthtesty: You call that research? Again like Thieme, you are trying to force a premature conclusion without careful research. Corrupt Doktor Kittel is not enough? hah Doktor Kittle was the editor and corrupt Nazi composer which gathered together from the 3 authors Johannes Behm, C A Anderson,and John Schneider for (4)"haima" Kittel TDNT vol I p. 174 footnote 17 (which included the infamous "pregnant verbal symbol" phrase). I just showed you one article that Johannes Behm was a supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party. Was it forced coercion or was Johannes Behm a willing participant in Hitler's corrupt totalitarian regime? It remains to be seen as research goes on. Your book is one limited preview. It seems you are suggesting that since Johannes Behm is not listed(in that limited preview of that 1 book), that he can be safely eliminated as a corrupt Nazi who supported Hitler. That is pathetic logic and certainly not the case as the article I have already shown includes Johannes Behm as supporter of Hitler and the Nazi party National Socialist German Workers Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP. Certainly there were lesser corrupt underlings than the more well known corrupt Doktor Kittel. How many? We are going to get a good idea. Was Johannes Behm one of them? It appears he was.
Doktor Johannes Behm is associated with all 3 of Hitler's Theologians: Doktor Paul Althaus, Doktor Emanuel Hirsch, and Doktor Gerhard Kittel.
Doktor Emanual Hirsch is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians.
Notice in my last article:
"Chronik/Rückblick mit scheinbaren Analogien und ohne Anspruch auf Vollständigkeit"
"Chronicle review with apparent analogies and without claim to totality"
Leipzig, festival organization "with Adolf Hitler for the German people honor, freedom and right!" with "Confession of the professors and intellectual at the German universities and universities to Adolf Hitler and the national socialistic country signed by Dr. Friedrich Alverdes, Prof. Dr. Georg Anschütz, Prof. Dr. Adolf Bach, Prof. Dr. Johannes Behm, ... Dr. Emanuel Hirsch, .... Prof. Dr. Emanuel Hirsch: aus that all now the last that I have to say: We have one Leader, who has always and every time this well known, that he as nothing then a tool of the creator All things knows itself. It knows, the providence lets do it the service, it stands over it and directs it...
Doktor Johannes Behm is associated with Doktor Emanuel Hirsch. Both professors confessed support for Hitler and the Nazi party.(National Socialist German Workers Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP)
Doktor Paul Althaus is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians.
Paul Althaus and Johannes Behm wrote a book together. "Das Neue Testament deutsch" Johannes Behm (Autor), Peter Stuhlmacher (Autor), Gerhard Friedrich (Autor), Paul Althaus (Autor)
[www.amazon.de]
Doktor Kittle is listed as one of Hitler's Theologians. Doktor Kittel references Doktor Paul Althaus in at Kittel's TDNT in at least Vol VI p. 135. Kittle also references "Das Neue Testament deutsch" Johannes Behm (Autor), Peter Stuhlmacher (Autor), Gerhard Friedrich (Autor), Paul Althaus (Autor), in Kittel's TDNT.
Also note: The article you showed on Hitler's Theologians is a limited preview, not the entire book. It might be possible that Behm is listed on the non-previewed pages. And again your are more interested in political spin to defend Thieme, than honest research.
People had/have a right to know about Hitler's Theologians before referencing Kittel's TDNT. (or trusting so called theologians who do reference Kittel's TDNT.)
Also for those intrested in the film, you can ILL this from your library.
Theologians Under Hitler
64 minutes
Source: Vital Visuals
This film introduces viewers to Paul Althaus, Emanuel Hirsch, and Gerhard Kittel, three Christian scholars who were also outspoken supporters of Hitler and the Nazi party. In 1933 Althaus spoke of Hitler’s rise as “a gift and miracle of God.” Hirsch saw 1933 as a “sunrise of divine goodness.” Kittel began working for the Nazis to find a “moral” rationale for the destruction of European Jewry. The film asks: how could Christian theologians justify the Nazi ideology and how does the scholarship of this period affect Christian theology today?
[www.worldcat.org]
[ssl17.chi.us.securedata.net]
Truthtesty
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
GeneZ
()
Date: November 11, 2007 02:51AM
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:
GeneZ
could you tell me further about your knowledge of stan ashby? did he make this recommendation of thieme to you personally and if so, when? did he publish any remarks extolling bob thieme's works?
I do not know what he may have published. He spoke to me personally.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:my experience has been quite the opposite. the last account i read was of a thiemite who was so enthralled with thiemes pseudo-intellect that he asked his greek professor to come to bible class with him. the greek professor was underwhelmed by his sophomoric grasp of greek and many errors.
Depends on the Greek professor's bias, I suppose. I know others who would disagree with that assessment, and heard of a few that would agree. You never know what motivates some. Remember? Thieme graduated summa cum laude from Dallas, and his major was Greek and Hebrew. I suppose the standards of the school were low? And, he also had several years of Greek at Arizona University before entering Dallas. So? Who do you believe? Just for thought... I have seen opposing denominations have their own expert exegetes to render their desired result.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:and from personal experience i remember thieme's dogmatic and hysterical assertions about the aorist tense as being "once for all" when it is nothing of the sort. fortunately christianity is more than greek grammar.
That is not what the aorist tense is. Nor, did Thieme teach that. Aoarist tense has to do with something taking place in a point in time. Modifiers to the word can alter at what point, and if its to continue, etc. But, it is never intended in itself to be once and for all. You are possibly confusing the perfect tense, I believe. I attended another church where a Dallas graduate (one of Woolvard's prize students) did criticize some of Thieme's teaching. But, he never said what you are trying to tell others here. He also teaches from the Greek as his norm.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:for those wanting to identify the signs of a cult, the comment i quoted above is a nice example. the leader is above reproach, he is too brilliant for anyone to evaluate him or undertand him; he therefore must be trusted as is. "you've been telling me you're a genius since you were 17...."
I did not say no one was to evaluate him. Few, means few. Few are qualified to enter into the realm he worked in. I do not know about you, but only very few churches have pastors able to teach from the Greek and Hebrew texts. Very few. Dr. Vernon McGee and Dr. Donald Barnhouse were peers of Thieme. And, both were friends of Thieme. So? Who do you believe?
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:fortunately where true scholarship is vibrant, peer reviewed journals and evaluations are available to assess the merits of someone else's research. after nearly 20 centuries of biblical scholarship, we can be confident that bob thieme has brought nothing of substance to the table except a lot of preening and prancing on stage.
Pastors are not called for peer review. They should be too busy teaching their own church. And, the Bible says he is accountable to God for his errors, and good teaching. Thieme's teachings were freely disseminated to all who wanted them. No money asked. I do not recall Dr. Barnhouse, nor Dr. McGee having to submit before some peer review journals. Both are highly published. Both taught from the original languages. Why not the same standard for them?
Know of any pastor who submits his works for peer review? I would like the list, please.
Interesting enough, the fact that peer review is even made an issue? Reveals right there that his teaching is on a level higher than the norm. At least we can get that much to be admitted by his detractors.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:fortunately, orthodoxy does not prescribe for us this pedantic, mechanistic, scholastic form of christianity. the lord expects us to live a life which is day by day learning of him and his ways. you fed me when i was hungry, you gave me raiment when i was naked, you visited me when i was in jail. these will be saved when the lord gathers in his sheep.
His teaching methodology was never intended for all. Those who connected with his teaching found no problem like you did. And, I knew of some who hated his approach, but learned from him because they wanted the knowledge he offered. A good number listened to him for his information, yet disliked his presentation. Did you know that? I for one, was not attracted to him for his personality (which in the beginning I actually disliked). I was after knowledge. I was not getting it anywhere else. That's what made Thieme popular with other pastor's, as well.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:i fear and pity for those who think that christianity and worship are bible class. bob thieme is outside the great fold of christian leaders and is a wolf in sheep's clothing. the lord is robed in majesty and nothing thieme ever did or said gave witness to the lord or his way.
That's your opinion. Opinion noted.
Now? Do you know that some who profess to be Christian will say similar things about the Apostle Paul?
Paul a false apostle
Paul was a false apostle? I have had contact with them. They are convinced he was a wolf in sheep's clothing who countered the teachings of Jesus. There methodology against Paul sounds strikingly similar to those who oppose Thieme. Look at the link! Goes to show you. Everyone is fair game in the realm of spiritual warfare.
Quote
tonyatl
Quote:as a side note, i was much attracted to thieme for his politics and no-fault salvation. however, i learned that the lord has something more important than a political agenda or a 12 step program for salvation.
Good! I hope you have found peace and happiness in your soul in what you did decided to follow, rather than finding a church that only makes you feel self justified in what you wish were true. That's what counts.
In Christ, GeneZ
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
GeneZ
()
Date: November 11, 2007 03:11AM
Quote
Truthtesty
gene quote And Read what I documented about Behm not being one of Hitler's theologians. Only Kittel was documented as being so. There were a good number theologians in Germany at that time. Not all spoke out against Hitler. Yet, not all endorsed him either. Do you have documentation to show Behm was one of Hitler's theologians? The documentation I have leaves him of the list which Kittel is on.....
Be that as it may...
Truthtesty?
In the famous debate that took place before the movie The Passion was released?
What did certain Jewish groups protest about the film?
It was the use of a passage where Jews cried out before Jesus was about to be crucified.
What did it say?
Matthew 27:25 (New International Version)
"All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"
Truthtesty?
Do you think they were talking about a literal physical blood being poured on them?
One must understand how the ancients used words to mean certain things.
That is what Thieme delved into. Many fundies did not want to know. That's why the controversy raged between those who studied, and those who wished to remain literalists.
Acts 18:6 (New International Version)
"But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."
I wonder what Paul meant. Did he mean they were going to be stabbed to death, and have their blood poured over them?
You are the expert with understanding how the ancients used the word "blood" and you know Thieme was wrong. I figure you could tell us.
In Christ, GeneZ
Re: R.B. Thieme Jr.
Posted by:
mile2
()
Date: November 11, 2007 09:43AM
tonyatl:
I just had a brief comment on your post at the top of p.84 where you mentioned Thieme's claims of "doctrinal breakthroughs" and uncovering a lost truth about the blood of Christ. I would discount any supposed "breakthroughs" of Thieme based on the reasons in my posts at the bottom of p.62 and the top of p.65. But recently I came across a quote I found very interesting.
"The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed upon "the accursed tree" than when it was flowing in his veins." If someone had told me this was a quote from Thieme I probably would not have doubted it. But in fact it is a quote from Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science., found in "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures", written in 1910.
So it appears this "breakthrough" concept wasn't as cutting edge as Thieme proposed it to be.
mile2
I just had a brief comment on your post at the top of p.84 where you mentioned Thieme's claims of "doctrinal breakthroughs" and uncovering a lost truth about the blood of Christ. I would discount any supposed "breakthroughs" of Thieme based on the reasons in my posts at the bottom of p.62 and the top of p.65. But recently I came across a quote I found very interesting.
"The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed upon "the accursed tree" than when it was flowing in his veins." If someone had told me this was a quote from Thieme I probably would not have doubted it. But in fact it is a quote from Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science., found in "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures", written in 1910.
So it appears this "breakthrough" concept wasn't as cutting edge as Thieme proposed it to be.
mile2
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