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The forum, which is teh manifest society tzm actually HAS is a fascist control freak pack psychology driven cult of personality which operates via an ad hom double standard and constant abuse of assorted fascistic selected public enemies. Seriously, the list goes on and on.
points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
gawd of truth, you need to know something, the forums will soon be gone, in less than a month actually. You are reminding why they need to be gone. They were a social place, they were not really conducive to information relay and education, present and up to date knowledge were absent from them. There was way too much "noise" or "static" on them, that took away from the central focus.↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
and? what does that prove? what central focus? they aren't able or competent to create a central focus. p
So ponder this folks. the ZM forums were taken down because they created too much "noise".
Here is the whole exchange describing what life was like while the ZM forum still existed.
And this is from an Occupy Wall Street discussion.
[
occupywallst.org]
Zeitgeist movement=Communism with robots.
No thanks.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
A very concise and ignorant comment if I may say. I'll just copy and paste my reply to the other person who essentially thinks as you do. I mean no hate or ill will in my message, the society has bred hate and fear of change in you and most people of the world. Its okay.
I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.
Peace and Love.
One species, one people, one planet.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
there is no superficial aspect here. the movement is fatally and absolutely flawed in unfixable ways. i know from giving them thousands of hours and posts of my time in their forums all of which just eventually disapears because they can't handle the truth. Neil kiernian is a sociopathic bully whos addicted to ad homs. etc.
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[-] 1 points by Kooch (77) 9 months ago
Well, in that case, I will tell you this: If the OWS movement were to embrace TVP, they will lose. It just is not going to happen. Don't derail this movement with pie in the sky ideas. We are a capitalist society. We need to reform capitalism so it doesn't funnel all the wealth to the top. We need to restore democracy.
And I still say TVP is communism with robots. I've done the research. That was my conclusion. Sorry.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
@Kooch I didn't even say TVP once in my original post you are so ignorant to keep associating them with TZM which is a further testament to your lack of knowledge.
@gawdoftruth Yes and those thousands of hours could indeed be repeated here but I refuse to get into a debate on these forums. The only dead horse here is the one being beat when you try to explain our concepts and ideals to people with traditional belief systems and values imprinted in their psyches that refuse to deviate from social heirarchies they still think have relevant meaning to the direction of human progress and the preservation of our planet and our species. You people really need to wake up and realize what's going on. Our RBE is based on love and understanding of the earths resources and our humane needs and applying the scientific method in a way to live in symbiological harmony with nature in a way that eliminate poverty, crime, and warfare, mental health disorders, scarcity, energy pollution and other issues. Why do you think John Lennon was assassinated? Some random citizen didn't like his music? Look deeper. Why was John Kennedy assassinated? Because a disgruntled citizen preferred the other candidate? Look deeper. We kill ourselves off all in the interest of those at the top retaining their position of power, wealth, and influence in the world. We are not a cult, we do not conduct rituals, we are not a high school club, we have documentaries and scientific backing, we are not a group of unhappy people because they were cast out of society, we are the normal people who want a better world. You people still amaze me at the amount of hate you have in you and unacceptance for anything out of the norm. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The "Free Market" or any variation of a reform of this structure, will inevitably fail in all accounts where a currency is openly traded between parties for any type of gain. No argument whatsoever.
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[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
tzm is an evil fascist cult of personality in three tiers which uses pack psychology and ideology and anti capitalism sentiment to run a patent capitalistic con scam and top down hierarchy with a fascist plan to take over the world and depopulate the planet. TZM is a dead end dead horse. Its a stupid and pathetically evil cult, and anybody who is still with them after watching neil kiernian run his ad hom double standard pack psychology game is involved in absurd double think.
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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
Dear all members of TZM on this forum. This is to all who are honestly trying to follow the train of thought that the movement sprang from.
There is no point in arguing with folks here, there is a point in educating them to what the goals of the movement really are.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
goals are neat things, but without a foundation in truth and solutions, even good goals pave the road to hell. good intentions. i am sure you have heard the trite saying.
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[-] 0 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
I see nothing practical about the Zeitgeist movement. As far as I can tell, they have a bunch of pretty pictures of futuristic cites, spout a buch of stuff about systems theory, and then say the only reason we don't have all this cool stuff is because of the monetary system. I don't buy it(no pun intended). There is indeed artificial scarcity in our economy, but that's a result of speculators holding resources for private gain. They could still do this even without a monetary system -- that's what feudalism was.
Abolishing money is not the answer. Taxing economic rent, on the other hand, will accomplish real, tangible results in terms of unleashing the forces of production and ending the artificial scarcity of capital, as well as pushing land to its most efficient use. That way the market will work in a way which is more equitable for everyone, and we will have organic cities which utilize the collective intelligence of all their citizens, rather than having us live in a bunch of beehives designed by some old guy.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
The ONLY thing holding us back is close minded people such as yourself. You need to watch the videos to understand. All I ask of you is for an open mind, if you cannot even give me that then you should not be involved in activism whatsoever. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, but if you can't see that the traditional currency system of trading of wealth and goods is outdated and can no longer serve the human species as our technology increases an exponential rate, then you are perhaps too socially conditioned to change or realize that one in this manner is needed. Peace and love.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
the only thing holding us back is that tzm is sucking up all of my would be allies time and energy with a giant anti human fascist cult mind instead of actually creating a direct democracy open source problem solving intelligence.
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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
NO, NO, NO, the train of thought followed by the zeitgeist movement is to free individuals to be individuals. TZM feels that by using technology to distribute resources more efficiently, the planet and its people will benefit. We are not against money anyway, we just simply recognize that there is no need for money in this type of system. You think we are utopian because we think it can be done absent of money. Did it ever occur to you that no one has ever tried it before. by the way "we" means anyone who follows this train of thought, whether they have any direct connection with the zeitgeist movement or not as an organization really does not even matter. It is not the zeitgeist movement that is out there in the street getting mad and occupying, though we figured this would happen and we stand in solidarity for those tired of the system. We have sound solitary scientific proof to back up these claims. We also feel that humanity is headed in this direction inevitably as technology and knowledge continues to increase.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
its a neat train of thought. you keep pointing to the good ideals. They exist in an ecology of ideology which is actually fascist, anti intellectual, anti truth, which always alienates experts because the false prophets can't handle any situation in which somebody else knows more than they do... You are focusing on the good things inside of a cult. Wake up and smell the rot.
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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
I HAVE watched the videos. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me close-minded. See, I'm one of those people who actually READS extensively about economics and doesn't just get all my information from online documentaries. Yeah, but I'm the close-minded one. Whatever.
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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
if you have watched the videos then you definitely have a right to respond and tell us what you think is flawed and why, if you have read extensively about the economics then share what you know.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
I am not talking about The Venus Project, mind you. as I just realized by you saying "some old guy" which regardless does not take away from the fact that Jacques Fresco is a visionary and Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement is the 'action' part of the equation.
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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
Yeah, Fresco makes some interest designs. If I were designing a neighborhood, I might hire him. But I'd rather live in a pluralistic society where decision-making is distributed among the people and not just have our whole living space designed by someone who claims to be the only one doing things according to "science." For a supposedly anarchist group, everything the Zeitgeist movement promotes is actually very top-down.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
There's really no argument if you grasp the concept that TZM advocates. In a resource based economy there would be no property, hence there would be no incentive for the pursuit of any property for one's own interest or for personal gain. I really don't know what it is you're trying to contradict.
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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
But HOW would you abolish property? State confiscation? Everything I've heard from them starts with abolishing the money system and assuming that property would naturally go away as a result. History teaches otherwise.
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[-] 2 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
perhaps you missed the part about using a central computer, not big brother, just using a centrally based computer system to help ascertain, harness and distribute the earth's resources fairly and equitably, with the utmost of efficiency being the goal. Then you would ask who would operate,this system? people would volunteer, just as they volunteer now for various humanitarian causes. People really do volunteer. The human race is not limited, it is capable of much more than what we have shown so far. A resource based economic model such as the one I have described gives us a chance to show it.
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[-] 2 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.
Peace and Love.
One species, one people, one planet.
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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
So you don't bother to answer my questions. Great. Just like every other Zeitgeist person I've asked. If you could direct me to some resources that answer these questions, I'd be glad to check them out. So far, I've seen all three movies, and been to thevenusproject.com, and have yet to have such questions answered. And no, I don't see you as Marxists. I actually know some Marxists, and have a great deal more respect for their understanding of politics, economics, and sociology than anything I've ever seen from TZM.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
i am quite knowledge able. i am the guy with 20 phds worth of autodidactic knowledge who tried to help this cult grow up only to have 700 posts deleted by vtv in order to cover his tracks as an ad hom bully.
Thats only where it starts and thats only my story.
Everyone whos got anything more than bachelors has a similar story. your cult can't handle the truth and it can;t handle those of us who know it. Until it stops being evil it is a problem, and its sucking away my allies off into dead ends we have no more time for false prophets and cult mind BS.
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[-] 2 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
gawd of truth, if you have had an extensive education and have something to contribute, we welcome knowledge. It really does sound like part of this is a personal dispute with VTV. He does not necessarily represent the movement, no one does, not even Peter himself, the movement is represented by a train of thought. This train of thought is toward efficiency, sustainability and simply using the knowledge that the human race has accumulated so far and updating it regularly. It might be compared to ordering the earth's economic model, much like the universe itself is ordered, we are literally made of that which makes up the universe so it makes sense.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
No, you don't. For a large variety of reasons. depth science knowledge terrifies the leadership because it puts them out of their depth. They don't know what the scientific method is and can't manage to engage their dupes into using it. This is far from merely a personal dispute, this is the simple factual truth about your cult. Many Many other people have had in essence the same kinds of interactions to prove it. As far as "who represents the movement" i'm sorry, but the aminatrolls banning people because they are evil adminatrolls DO represent the movement, whether you like it or not.
IF they had ANY interest in the truth or science they would form open source think tanks, not come in with movies and etc and dispense knowledge to the rest of you from on hi. I spent 700 posts trying to get a REAL science centered open source direct democracy process going on TZM and was mocked, attacked, and ignored, until i stood upto vtv for ad homming somebody else and was then banned for standing up to the corruption. TZM is nothing bu an evil cult, and ANY claim they have to be interested in science is not born out in their actual organization- they absolutely fail to create open source research think tanks- they wouldn't know what science was if it bit them.
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[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
your simply wrong. the problem is that while the good and neat and pretty things are true and nifty the HOLES in the PLAN are GINORMOUS and are being FILLED right in front of you all the time with a 3 tier cult of personality which operates by propaganda warfare, pack psychology, and slander and trolling against all other possible routes for social change, all other persons working for social change, all religions, all governments. TZM is a TROLLCULT. and thats all it can or ever will be.
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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
Tell me what the holes in the plan are and I will entertain the idea of this being some misconcieved fantasy. Keep in mind the growing importance that technology is and will continue to be in our social lives. We will not need a government of any kind. No ism.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
how will you get a think tank instead of cult mind started? how will we implement this transition plan? what is the plan aside from cozy up to NATO and wait for depopulation? "All the worlds resources for all the worlds people" is nice poetry, but systemically impossible and dynamically out of touch with the core solution which is localization. Really the list goes on. The forum, which is teh manifest society tzm actually HAS is a fascist control freak pack psychology driven cult of personality which operates via an ad hom double standard and constant abuse of assorted fascistic selected public enemies. Seriously, the list goes on and on.
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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
gawd of truth, you need to know something, the forums will soon be gone, in less than a month actually. You are reminding why they need to be gone. They were a social place, they were not really conducive to information relay and education, present and up to date knowledge were absent from them. There was way too much "noise" or "static" on them, that took away from the central focus.
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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
and? what does that prove? what central focus? they aren't able or competent to create a central focus. they can't even get it together to run a forum- let alone society or change the world.
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