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Corboy
I had no opinion about TZM when this thread first began.

After watching TZM defenders in action, I am now (citizen's opinion) convinced that if TZM ever were to remake the world to its specifications, dissenters would indeed be unwelcome.

The treatment accorded to people who write that they disliked viewing the Zeitgeist movies or feel troubled by TZM's political implications is, to me, a forecast of what would happen to dissenters if TZM ever were to take real political power.

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Corboy
What is this about a skinned dog? Even if a dead dog were used for this purpose, the image is vile.

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Positive dialog about the movie.
Royba1984
Big eye opener! People need to wake up for sure!!!
It's obvious that modern day "money mechanics" has succeded by putting most beings on the negative path of "service to self". Firstly we should stop arguing amongst ourselves and produce productive opinion and conversation. Hopefully we can all become 'light warriors' and persue the positive path of "service to others"..
Spread the love and light...peace
Roy
Aus.

Shekhar Borgaonkar
great documentary. A lot of work needs to be done. The problem statement part of the movie is very clear. However the solution part does not sufficiently deal with "who will bell the cat".
Looking forward to watch more such movies and if possible contribute.
Thanks

Hope you have seen it through, if not: that's a pity, because it is an interesting documentary, which is worth wile seeing! Reality can be quite depressing, but being an ostrich makes you suffocate after a while.

Dan Sandler
unbelievably great!!!

HEATHER
This documentary is so well presented that it almost leaves no stone unturned as it explains how the money system fails humanity and the planet at every level. In reflecting upon the current state of world economic turmoil, if I compare it to a radioactive sinking ship, despite the fallout as the ship goes down, I think we should all be able to find some comfort in the sinking of such a ship, or system in this case. Rather than panicking and taking frantic action to keep the ship propped up, I think it's better to let it sink, deal with the fallout and then build a new ship. I would urge everyone, especially anyone who plays the game on Wall Street, to look at the picture as a whole and unplug from the game, rather than continue to finance it. Let the ship sink and the current captains who are at the helm, let them go down with it.

Donny McDermid VI
Great documentary! As ironic as it is.. the beginning needs to start with money. People need to make a stand and invest in the future. If you could get some rich people or enough medium contributors together we could build our first Utopian Resource Based society. We could create some surplus of items to export as a whole community, in order to import entertainment, money for citizens to travel, outside educational material and save to build the next Utopian society and so on and so forth. Money is the worst thing in this world and shouldn't cause as much pain and distress to humans as it does. I wish for a future where enjoyment and personal growth are the fundamentals of life.


Dennis Kautz
A great film and movement that is awakening millions. Very well composed and presented.

Dennis Kautz
I agree on all counts. All are key facets in the control system and are manipulated to promote their agenda. I do see a problem with trying to eliminate religion. While I think most religious beliefs, including many areas of science, have been molded in order to control, there is an underlying spirituality (not religion) in most belief systems which are innate in all beings. I think there is a more benign way of educating people by showing the evolution of religious dogmas usually at the hand of the controllers.


Brian Thoren Nielsen
i loved the film and is just waiting for the revolution. if it comes. and if it come. i am all in for it. the world with al its money hungry people, is not worth much. i hope so much that i will see the beginning of a change in my life time. or maybe mankind have already stepped too far in the wrong direction. i hope not.

kyle_eamon_ahern
I agree with this statement. Communism in practice is about control. Communist governments are twisted and will never work. You get punished for not sharing. Communist governance should never exist. Communism evolved by innovation is about freedom, sharing at one's own will.
It is my belief that we are about to see the paradigm of zeitgeist shift towards a more ideal, more free society by open source creations like the RepRap.

666enoch666
awesome movie truly blew me away.the part about addiction is solid & untouchable. U know scientist once predicted that by the 90's we would all be working a 10hour work week. What happened?

Frank Lee
As a Zeitgeist supporter, I can tell you quite unequivocally that the Zeitgeist Movement, nor the films inspiring and inspired that movement are not religiously based, in any sense of the term. The Zeitgeist films, particularly Moving Forward, and Addendum, are about social interaction, and intelligent sustainable resource management.

Kevin Marchese
Life changing documentary!

koopaatroopa
God dammit I never wanted to see the fox scene from earthlings ever again but they put it in here!!
The beginning of this video is absolutely incredible.

Kuko
The Greatest thing I´ve ever seen in my life! I´ve known Zeitgeist for a few years and I watched my last one also a few years ago, but Moving Forward really changed my notions about the whole thing. I always somehow felt that the Venus project would limit our freedom in certain ways, but even after watching three ones before I haven´t fully realised what freedom we are having in our society now: to work, to earn and to consume. Is this freedom? Three hours ago, just before watching this one I told my cousin, that I thought the Venus project was a complete utopia and was impossible to implement, because of the nature of human beings. This doc convinced me of the opposite, it is possible, but not without a radical change in people´s thinking. And also from now on I will try my best not to be mad about people for their ignorance and stupidity, because it really isn´t their fault, they have been brought up to be like that, we are desired to be like that and it took a long time for the elite to reach their goal, by slow, constant and well designed changes, so we really can´t blame people for being like this. And because of this a sadly reckon, that the shift to the resource-based economy is not possible like it was shown at the end of the doc and I´m sure that the proposers of the project have to know this if they were able to create this doc and it is because this system has gone too far and as it was said in The Matrix, people are so manipulated, that they will try to protect it. You would have to do the same as they did and that is to slowly, step by step change people´s thinking, but in a positive way and I think the system will crash until you would succeed. In my opinion the society as we know it would have to completely fall apart to be possible to start again. Anyway, I will support these ideas from now on and hope that we will be so lucky in our deliberate destruction to get a second chance to undo it. Greetings :)

compasstolife
The opening statement is so profound and highlights what we don't want to see. We chase things to distracts us from the bigger questions we dare not tackle let alone openly admit. "What matters?" If you died today, how much of what monopolizes your attention matters? Rude awakening but we sure as hell need it.

Dillan Boutin
I liked this documentary a lot. I will say that not everything presented in this film is presented in an order that makes sense to me. I usually find myself skipping the first 10 minutes of the film so I don't turn people off from seeing it. I agree 100% with the psychologists speaking about human nature and the scientists speaking about genetics.

People that say this doesn't resemble communism theory are being defensive. What The Zeitgeist Movement proposes resembles communist theory in many ways, but it resembles true communism which requires people to not be corrupt and self serving. There is nothing wrong with communism in theory it's when it is put into practice where many troublesome things can occur.

It's my belief that the current capitalist system is flawed because the idea of capitalism IS NOT creating the best most useful product at the lowest possible prices as the film states. The reason this doesn't happen is because of the cycle of consumption that needs to be sustained in order to keep companies profitable and competitive. I do believe in the idea of voting with my dollar but in today's system you cannot make a very informed decision on certain things. If capitalism is to work better for the people there should really be truth in advertising instead of these games being played to get people to emotionally relate to the product. I don't want a special relationship with my cell phone based on the BRAND or the Advertising designed to get me to buy it. I want a special relationship with my cell phone because of the functions it performs and the way that it connects me to other people and information.

I am a big believer in open source technology like Google Android, Open Office, VLC media player etc. The problem I see with open source as it exists today is that nothing can truly be open sourced because they can't use the existing scaffolding of products which are already a success. Imagine if GIMP was allowed to use Photoshops existing scaffolding I bet a lot more people would be using GIMP and not stealing Photoshop. I feel that most inventions are not entirely new ideas but instead modifications to ideas that already exist.

Anyway those are just a few of my thoughts on Zeitgeist and the Venus Project.

Jo Clarysse
'The Zeitgeist Movement' does sound a bit unattractive for such a global change... the Venus Project sounds better already, but I sure do hope some inspiring people will produce an intriguing, universally-acceptable name,... it's the only virtuous life system I've heard of since I stopped believing in religion, politicians & all those things that seem to slow down progress.. We still haven't sent any explorers to anything further than the moon. That happened 50 years ago! No, humanity spends tons of money to bomb and kill the people living in desert countries! Wake up people - there's no heaven - we might be experiencing the best our galaxy has to offer but make it hell for every other organism surrounding ourselves. Time bullies stop winning.

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· davidjuly
The sudden and unnecessary use of violent imagery of animal torture, possibly used for effect and without warning to the viewer, was inappropriate and offensive. It also cast a negative light on the rest of the film, whose unrealistic and fanatical message only deteriorated thereafter. There is nothing new in this film....

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· · Billy Bingbong
I hope I’m not alone here in having a severe problem with the graphic content in this video, namely a live skinned dog.. Am I the only one who has a problem with this? I hope you have not all been so desensitized by the medis that you don’t see this 5 seconds of this video as completely unnecessary.. Please someone agree with me

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Sunday, July 03, 2011

A House Divided...

I have decided to end my association with TZM and TVP.

This is a decision that I do not enter into lightly but over the past few months I have endured a few epiphanies that have finally illustrated to me that TZM and TVP in their current configuration are not going to be able to break into the mainstream.

The last straw was Douglas Mallette's interview on V-Radio.

I still support the idea of an RBE, it is something that should be explored further, but if TZM wants to take this further they need to get their house in order.

Why I've come to this conclusion is as follows:

1. As an organization you have been too middle of the road in who you let represent these ideas. I understand you want to propagate these ideas far and wide, but you can't let just anyone represent themselves as movement members and then spout off about whatever agenda they see fit. You let people bring in baggage eventually that baggage becomes incorporated in the movement.

I am burned out trying to effect damage control. Although there is truth that the "forum is not the movement" it is public, anyone can read it and anyone can draw all sorts of inappropriate conclusions based on it.

You need more moderation, not less. And you need private forums. Better yet get rid of on-line forums altogether.

Conduct town hall meetings and invite the public, this way you know you are putting your best foot forward. Lastly the only people who should be talking about an RBE are people who have explicitly expressed an understanding of it.

2. Drop the Zeitgeist name, distance yourself from the first movie. It is long past due that you do this.

The first Zeitgeist is not engineered as a piece that will unify any group of people. It is polarizing and misleading. I am still mystified as to why Peter Joseph paid to have people write a 200 pg support document and then released a re-tweak of the original movie, especially at a time when he was distancing himself from 911 Truthers.

It is time to accept that conspiracy theory, new age, ufo's, NWO has no place in TZM. These people are not your audience, I cannot grasp how you do not understand that.

Repudiate the first movie, and re-brand your group. Take the good ideas and shed the garbage.

The fact that some of the more prominent members are afraid to disclose who they represent at conventions for fear of alienating the crowd before they begin is proof enough that perhaps the Zeitgeist franchise has worn out its welcome.

3. Stop pushing the collapse porn.

Waiting around for the collapse to magically usher in the thinking and attitudes necessary to birth a new economic order (oops did I just say that?) is foolhardy and irresponsible. And it won't happen.

As I've argued before on the forums you cannot wait for collapse because people are going to rebuild what they know, not something new. Hopefully you are turning a new leaf with the new association with the food drive in September, but what took you so long?

4. TZM is a movement that is based on the scientific method applied to social concern. So bloody well use the scientific method already. If it can't be made falsifiable or replicable and no empirical evidence exists, then stop talking about it. Useless speculation is useless.

You want the mainstream to take you seriously, then start helping, start being part of your community, polish up your image, build your street cred.

Start by owning up to past mistakes, rather than plunging headlong at full speed from one disaster to another. Build a respectable foundation around the idea of a sustainable economy/community. That is all you need.

Indeed that is all you ever needed.

Posted by Vasper85 at 3:57 PM

2 comments:
Anonymous said...
learned a lot

7:31 AM
Anon139958 said...

Right on. You nailed a bunch of things that have been on my mind as well. Can something useful come out of a realistic reflection like this? Maybe there are more who agree and have something useful to add?

6:58 PM

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. I mean no hate or ill will in my message, the society has bred hate and fear of change in you and most people of the world. Its okay.

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The forum, which is teh manifest society tzm actually HAS is a fascist control freak pack psychology driven cult of personality which operates via an ad hom double standard and constant abuse of assorted fascistic selected public enemies. Seriously, the list goes on and on.

points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago

gawd of truth, you need to know something, the forums will soon be gone, in less than a month actually. You are reminding why they need to be gone. They were a social place, they were not really conducive to information relay and education, present and up to date knowledge were absent from them. There was way too much "noise" or "static" on them, that took away from the central focus.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
and? what does that prove? what central focus? they aren't able or competent to create a central focus. p


So ponder this folks. the ZM forums were taken down because they created too much "noise".

Here is the whole exchange describing what life was like while the ZM forum still existed.

And this is from an Occupy Wall Street discussion.

[occupywallst.org]

Zeitgeist movement=Communism with robots.

No thanks.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
A very concise and ignorant comment if I may say. I'll just copy and paste my reply to the other person who essentially thinks as you do. I mean no hate or ill will in my message, the society has bred hate and fear of change in you and most people of the world. Its okay.

I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.

Peace and Love.

One species, one people, one planet.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
there is no superficial aspect here. the movement is fatally and absolutely flawed in unfixable ways. i know from giving them thousands of hours and posts of my time in their forums all of which just eventually disapears because they can't handle the truth. Neil kiernian is a sociopathic bully whos addicted to ad homs. etc.

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[-] 1 points by Kooch (77) 9 months ago
Well, in that case, I will tell you this: If the OWS movement were to embrace TVP, they will lose. It just is not going to happen. Don't derail this movement with pie in the sky ideas. We are a capitalist society. We need to reform capitalism so it doesn't funnel all the wealth to the top. We need to restore democracy.


And I still say TVP is communism with robots. I've done the research. That was my conclusion. Sorry.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
@Kooch I didn't even say TVP once in my original post you are so ignorant to keep associating them with TZM which is a further testament to your lack of knowledge.

@gawdoftruth Yes and those thousands of hours could indeed be repeated here but I refuse to get into a debate on these forums. The only dead horse here is the one being beat when you try to explain our concepts and ideals to people with traditional belief systems and values imprinted in their psyches that refuse to deviate from social heirarchies they still think have relevant meaning to the direction of human progress and the preservation of our planet and our species. You people really need to wake up and realize what's going on. Our RBE is based on love and understanding of the earths resources and our humane needs and applying the scientific method in a way to live in symbiological harmony with nature in a way that eliminate poverty, crime, and warfare, mental health disorders, scarcity, energy pollution and other issues. Why do you think John Lennon was assassinated? Some random citizen didn't like his music? Look deeper. Why was John Kennedy assassinated? Because a disgruntled citizen preferred the other candidate? Look deeper. We kill ourselves off all in the interest of those at the top retaining their position of power, wealth, and influence in the world. We are not a cult, we do not conduct rituals, we are not a high school club, we have documentaries and scientific backing, we are not a group of unhappy people because they were cast out of society, we are the normal people who want a better world. You people still amaze me at the amount of hate you have in you and unacceptance for anything out of the norm. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The "Free Market" or any variation of a reform of this structure, will inevitably fail in all accounts where a currency is openly traded between parties for any type of gain. No argument whatsoever.

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[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
tzm is an evil fascist cult of personality in three tiers which uses pack psychology and ideology and anti capitalism sentiment to run a patent capitalistic con scam and top down hierarchy with a fascist plan to take over the world and depopulate the planet. TZM is a dead end dead horse. Its a stupid and pathetically evil cult, and anybody who is still with them after watching neil kiernian run his ad hom double standard pack psychology game is involved in absurd double think.

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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
Dear all members of TZM on this forum. This is to all who are honestly trying to follow the train of thought that the movement sprang from.

There is no point in arguing with folks here, there is a point in educating them to what the goals of the movement really are.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
goals are neat things, but without a foundation in truth and solutions, even good goals pave the road to hell. good intentions. i am sure you have heard the trite saying.

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[-] 0 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
I see nothing practical about the Zeitgeist movement. As far as I can tell, they have a bunch of pretty pictures of futuristic cites, spout a buch of stuff about systems theory, and then say the only reason we don't have all this cool stuff is because of the monetary system. I don't buy it(no pun intended). There is indeed artificial scarcity in our economy, but that's a result of speculators holding resources for private gain. They could still do this even without a monetary system -- that's what feudalism was.

Abolishing money is not the answer. Taxing economic rent, on the other hand, will accomplish real, tangible results in terms of unleashing the forces of production and ending the artificial scarcity of capital, as well as pushing land to its most efficient use. That way the market will work in a way which is more equitable for everyone, and we will have organic cities which utilize the collective intelligence of all their citizens, rather than having us live in a bunch of beehives designed by some old guy.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
The ONLY thing holding us back is close minded people such as yourself. You need to watch the videos to understand. All I ask of you is for an open mind, if you cannot even give me that then you should not be involved in activism whatsoever. I'm not telling anyone what to believe, but if you can't see that the traditional currency system of trading of wealth and goods is outdated and can no longer serve the human species as our technology increases an exponential rate, then you are perhaps too socially conditioned to change or realize that one in this manner is needed. Peace and love.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
the only thing holding us back is that tzm is sucking up all of my would be allies time and energy with a giant anti human fascist cult mind instead of actually creating a direct democracy open source problem solving intelligence.

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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
NO, NO, NO, the train of thought followed by the zeitgeist movement is to free individuals to be individuals. TZM feels that by using technology to distribute resources more efficiently, the planet and its people will benefit. We are not against money anyway, we just simply recognize that there is no need for money in this type of system. You think we are utopian because we think it can be done absent of money. Did it ever occur to you that no one has ever tried it before. by the way "we" means anyone who follows this train of thought, whether they have any direct connection with the zeitgeist movement or not as an organization really does not even matter. It is not the zeitgeist movement that is out there in the street getting mad and occupying, though we figured this would happen and we stand in solidarity for those tired of the system. We have sound solitary scientific proof to back up these claims. We also feel that humanity is headed in this direction inevitably as technology and knowledge continues to increase.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
its a neat train of thought. you keep pointing to the good ideals. They exist in an ecology of ideology which is actually fascist, anti intellectual, anti truth, which always alienates experts because the false prophets can't handle any situation in which somebody else knows more than they do... You are focusing on the good things inside of a cult. Wake up and smell the rot.

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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
I HAVE watched the videos. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me close-minded. See, I'm one of those people who actually READS extensively about economics and doesn't just get all my information from online documentaries. Yeah, but I'm the close-minded one. Whatever.

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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
if you have watched the videos then you definitely have a right to respond and tell us what you think is flawed and why, if you have read extensively about the economics then share what you know.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
I am not talking about The Venus Project, mind you. as I just realized by you saying "some old guy" which regardless does not take away from the fact that Jacques Fresco is a visionary and Peter Joseph of The Zeitgeist Movement is the 'action' part of the equation.

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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
Yeah, Fresco makes some interest designs. If I were designing a neighborhood, I might hire him. But I'd rather live in a pluralistic society where decision-making is distributed among the people and not just have our whole living space designed by someone who claims to be the only one doing things according to "science." For a supposedly anarchist group, everything the Zeitgeist movement promotes is actually very top-down.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
There's really no argument if you grasp the concept that TZM advocates. In a resource based economy there would be no property, hence there would be no incentive for the pursuit of any property for one's own interest or for personal gain. I really don't know what it is you're trying to contradict.

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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
But HOW would you abolish property? State confiscation? Everything I've heard from them starts with abolishing the money system and assuming that property would naturally go away as a result. History teaches otherwise.

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[-] 2 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
perhaps you missed the part about using a central computer, not big brother, just using a centrally based computer system to help ascertain, harness and distribute the earth's resources fairly and equitably, with the utmost of efficiency being the goal. Then you would ask who would operate,this system? people would volunteer, just as they volunteer now for various humanitarian causes. People really do volunteer. The human race is not limited, it is capable of much more than what we have shown so far. A resource based economic model such as the one I have described gives us a chance to show it.

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[-] 2 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
I think you're just one of the many who see the superficial aspects of our movement and see us as marxists or communists who focus on centralized operations rather than handling problems based on the needs of the people and the planet we inhabit. Do your research please, I did not come here to argue. I understand some people cannot comprehend some of the ideas we support because of their traditional social conditioning but please do not slam TZM without even being knowledgeable in relevant subjects about the matter. Thank you.

Peace and Love.

One species, one people, one planet.

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[-] 1 points by Silversoul (13) 9 months ago
So you don't bother to answer my questions. Great. Just like every other Zeitgeist person I've asked. If you could direct me to some resources that answer these questions, I'd be glad to check them out. So far, I've seen all three movies, and been to thevenusproject.com, and have yet to have such questions answered. And no, I don't see you as Marxists. I actually know some Marxists, and have a great deal more respect for their understanding of politics, economics, and sociology than anything I've ever seen from TZM.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
i am quite knowledge able. i am the guy with 20 phds worth of autodidactic knowledge who tried to help this cult grow up only to have 700 posts deleted by vtv in order to cover his tracks as an ad hom bully.

Thats only where it starts and thats only my story.

Everyone whos got anything more than bachelors has a similar story. your cult can't handle the truth and it can;t handle those of us who know it. Until it stops being evil it is a problem, and its sucking away my allies off into dead ends we have no more time for false prophets and cult mind BS.

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[-] 2 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago
gawd of truth, if you have had an extensive education and have something to contribute, we welcome knowledge. It really does sound like part of this is a personal dispute with VTV. He does not necessarily represent the movement, no one does, not even Peter himself, the movement is represented by a train of thought. This train of thought is toward efficiency, sustainability and simply using the knowledge that the human race has accumulated so far and updating it regularly. It might be compared to ordering the earth's economic model, much like the universe itself is ordered, we are literally made of that which makes up the universe so it makes sense.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
No, you don't. For a large variety of reasons. depth science knowledge terrifies the leadership because it puts them out of their depth. They don't know what the scientific method is and can't manage to engage their dupes into using it. This is far from merely a personal dispute, this is the simple factual truth about your cult. Many Many other people have had in essence the same kinds of interactions to prove it. As far as "who represents the movement" i'm sorry, but the aminatrolls banning people because they are evil adminatrolls DO represent the movement, whether you like it or not.

IF they had ANY interest in the truth or science they would form open source think tanks, not come in with movies and etc and dispense knowledge to the rest of you from on hi. I spent 700 posts trying to get a REAL science centered open source direct democracy process going on TZM and was mocked, attacked, and ignored, until i stood upto vtv for ad homming somebody else and was then banned for standing up to the corruption. TZM is nothing bu an evil cult, and ANY claim they have to be interested in science is not born out in their actual organization- they absolutely fail to create open source research think tanks- they wouldn't know what science was if it bit them.

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[-] 0 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
your simply wrong. the problem is that while the good and neat and pretty things are true and nifty the HOLES in the PLAN are GINORMOUS and are being FILLED right in front of you all the time with a 3 tier cult of personality which operates by propaganda warfare, pack psychology, and slander and trolling against all other possible routes for social change, all other persons working for social change, all religions, all governments. TZM is a TROLLCULT. and thats all it can or ever will be.

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[-] 1 points by Lifestream (85) from Milan, IL 9 months ago
Tell me what the holes in the plan are and I will entertain the idea of this being some misconcieved fantasy. Keep in mind the growing importance that technology is and will continue to be in our social lives. We will not need a government of any kind. No ism.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago

how will you get a think tank instead of cult mind started? how will we implement this transition plan? what is the plan aside from cozy up to NATO and wait for depopulation? "All the worlds resources for all the worlds people" is nice poetry, but systemically impossible and dynamically out of touch with the core solution which is localization. Really the list goes on. The forum, which is teh manifest society tzm actually HAS is a fascist control freak pack psychology driven cult of personality which operates via an ad hom double standard and constant abuse of assorted fascistic selected public enemies. Seriously, the list goes on and on.

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[-] 1 points by venusfreedom (11) 9 months ago

gawd of truth, you need to know something, the forums will soon be gone, in less than a month actually. You are reminding why they need to be gone. They were a social place, they were not really conducive to information relay and education, present and up to date knowledge were absent from them. There was way too much "noise" or "static" on them, that took away from the central focus.

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[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
and? what does that prove? what central focus? they aren't able or competent to create a central focus. they can't even get it together to run a forum- let alone society or change the world.

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Corboy
As Others See TZM--from Occupy Wall Street discussion

[occupywallst.org]

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Prometheuspan
(From a post on this forum)
It is a cult because Neil who is now posting here uses an ad hominem double standard and rabidly attacks people on the forums in order to bully and intimidate them as the primary form.

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Gawdoftruth
[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago

its not leaderless, its a cult of personality in three tiers. Its already patently violent in terms of how it self organizes as a pack and mob using an ad hom double standard and verbal violence to create its internal order. If you agreed to that, then you shold obviously go back and raise hell on the forum, because what the PROBLEM here is is that they absolutely are using EVIL means. They wouldn't know the scientific method if it bit them.

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Gawdoftruth
[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago
there is no superficial aspect here. the movement is fatally and absolutely flawed in unfixable ways. i know from giving them thousands of hours and posts of my time in their forums all of which just eventually disapears because they can't handle the truth. Neil kiernian is a sociopathic bully whos addicted to ad homs. etc.

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Prometheuspan
VTV is here to tell you it just isn't so. Whats not easy to spot is that he is in fact a bully, an ad hominem junkie, a sociopath,

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gawdoftruth/Prometheuspan
[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 9 months ago

i am quite knowledge able. i am the guy with 20 phds worth of autodidactic knowledge