Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: July 12, 2012 07:00AM
Hey, Jim, were you ever a member of TZM?
If so, am curious what kinds of commitment are recommended/encouraged.
Also is there a standard recommendation on diet for TZM or are people free to eat what they want?
Am curious whether TZM is a small fringe group that looks bigger than it is, due to presence on internet.
I live in a rather activist town, yet in all my wanderings and reading, never heard a thing about ZM until someone began to post about TZM here on RR.com one year ago.
If so, am curious what kinds of commitment are recommended/encouraged.
Also is there a standard recommendation on diet for TZM or are people free to eat what they want?
Am curious whether TZM is a small fringe group that looks bigger than it is, due to presence on internet.
I live in a rather activist town, yet in all my wanderings and reading, never heard a thing about ZM until someone began to post about TZM here on RR.com one year ago.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
Serval
()
Date: July 12, 2012 07:03AM
Is a bad personal experience on a forum, evidence that the persons maintaining or moderating that forum are a cult?
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
jimjesus
()
Date: July 12, 2012 07:46AM
corboy,
I was not a former member of TZM, I was a former short time member of a financial cult Primerica.
I became critical of the TZM group when I discovered a few of my friends who joined this. They all left before TVP distanced themselves and the group become smaller, more radicalized and concerning. I've been watching them for a while, so I'll try to answer.
Recommended commitments whould be as followed in the Zeitgeist Addendum movie:
Now when you do 6, they would assist you in finding your local chapter and in turn they would recommend activities like regular meetings, like passing out fliers, helping to organize events that sort of thing. All of which are non-paid gigs.
There's no set diet that I am aware of, however there is a subsection who are vegan. ( [veganzeitgeist.org] ) I think the only think I can think that a vast majority agrees with is to avoid GMO foods.
TZM membership is relativity small even comparing to fringe ideologies. Most of the numbers they use are much like Scientology's numbers. People register as a member and get counted forever. Even if they leave or (which is probably the majority of quits) just forget or stopped caring about it. Peter Joseph has admitted that membership numbers took a sharp dive recently in one of his radio addresses (will find if you wish a link.)
I have heard of the first Zeitgeist (conspiracy theory) film and did a little debunking of it a while back. I wasn't even aware of the second film or the movement until I moved back to Los Angeles and got reunited with some of my old friends in late 2010
I was not a former member of TZM, I was a former short time member of a financial cult Primerica.
I became critical of the TZM group when I discovered a few of my friends who joined this. They all left before TVP distanced themselves and the group become smaller, more radicalized and concerning. I've been watching them for a while, so I'll try to answer.
Recommended commitments whould be as followed in the Zeitgeist Addendum movie:
Quote
Zeitgeist: Addendum
One. Expose the banking fraud. Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, and Bank of America are the most powerful controllers within the corrupt Federal Reserve system. It’s time to boycott these institutions. If you have a bank account or credit card with any of them, move your money to another bank. If you have a mortgage, refinance with another bank. If you own their stock, sell it. If you work for them, quit. This gesture will express contempt fo the true powers behind the private banking cartel known as the Federal Reserve. And create awareness about the fraud of the banking system itself.
Two. Turn off the TV news. Visit the emerging independent news agencies on the internet for your information. CNN, NBC, ABC, FOX and all the others present all news pre-filtered to maintain the status quo. With four corporations owning all major media outlets, objective information is impossible. This is the true beauty of the internet. And the establishment has been losing control because of this free flow of information. We must protect the internet at all times, as it is truly our savior right now.
Three. Don’t ever yourself, your family, or anyone you know, to ever join the military. This is an obsolete institution now used exclusively for maintaining an establishment that is no longer relevant. US soldiers in Iraq work for US corporations, not the people. Propaganda forces us to believe that war is natural and the military is an honorable institution. Well if war is natural, why are there 18 suicides every single day by American veterans who have post-traumatic stress disorder? If our military men and women are so honored, why is it that 25% of the American homeless population are veterans?
Four. Stop supporting the energy companies. If you live in a detached house, get off the grid. Investigate every means of making your home self-sustainable with clean energy. Solar, wind, and other renewable energies are now affordable consumer realities, and considering the never ending rising costs of traditional energies, it will likely be a cheaper investment over time. If you drive, get the smallest car you can and consider using one of the many conversion technologies that can enable your car to be a hybrid, electric, or run on anything other than establishment fuels.
Five. Reject the political system. The illusion of democracy is an insult to our intelligence. In a monetary system, there is no such thing as a true democracy, and there never was. We have two political parties owned by the same set of corporate lobbyists. They are place into their positions by the corporations, with popularity artificially projected by their media. In a system of inherent corruption the change of personnel every couple of years has very little relevance. Instead of pretending that the political game has any true meaning focus your energy on how to transcend this failed system.
Six. Join the movement. Go to the thezeitgeistmovement.com and help us create the largest mass movement for social change the world has ever seen. We must mobilize and educate everyone about the inherent corruption of our current world system… along with the only true sustainable solution, declaring all the natural resources on the planet as common heritage to all people, while informing everyone as to the true state of technology and how we can all be free if the world works together rather than fights.
Now when you do 6, they would assist you in finding your local chapter and in turn they would recommend activities like regular meetings, like passing out fliers, helping to organize events that sort of thing. All of which are non-paid gigs.
There's no set diet that I am aware of, however there is a subsection who are vegan. ( [veganzeitgeist.org] ) I think the only think I can think that a vast majority agrees with is to avoid GMO foods.
TZM membership is relativity small even comparing to fringe ideologies. Most of the numbers they use are much like Scientology's numbers. People register as a member and get counted forever. Even if they leave or (which is probably the majority of quits) just forget or stopped caring about it. Peter Joseph has admitted that membership numbers took a sharp dive recently in one of his radio addresses (will find if you wish a link.)
I have heard of the first Zeitgeist (conspiracy theory) film and did a little debunking of it a while back. I wasn't even aware of the second film or the movement until I moved back to Los Angeles and got reunited with some of my old friends in late 2010
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
Serval
()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:33AM
corboy,
I have been and continue to be a "member", (if that's what you want to call it) of The Zeitgeist Movement since it began. I personally haven't experienced any of the criteria needed in order for TZM to be considered a cult. I've never been pressured in any way to do anything in regards to the movement. I have never had to pay dues, or donate money, but I have donated my time on occasion (schedule permitting). I never had any issues with TZM forums at anytime because even though I signed up to be able to use them, I found it a duanting task to wade through the forums for relevant posts and information and I never really had anything to contribute that someone else hadn't already posted as far as new information or ideas are concerned. I honestly haven't really had to alter or change my lifestyle in any way directly because of the movement with the exception of a few things I've begun doing (by my own choice) like growing some of my own food and participating in more volunteer work functions around my community. I've also started reading more and doing more research on various topics that I was previously unfamiliar with due to recommendations from other "members" I've encountered that shared similar interests with myself. All in all I have found the word "cult" (for the most part) to be a pejorative that is often applied to any group of people sharing similar beliefs, and when used in accusation, is an intellectually lazy attempt to discredit them.
I have been and continue to be a "member", (if that's what you want to call it) of The Zeitgeist Movement since it began. I personally haven't experienced any of the criteria needed in order for TZM to be considered a cult. I've never been pressured in any way to do anything in regards to the movement. I have never had to pay dues, or donate money, but I have donated my time on occasion (schedule permitting). I never had any issues with TZM forums at anytime because even though I signed up to be able to use them, I found it a duanting task to wade through the forums for relevant posts and information and I never really had anything to contribute that someone else hadn't already posted as far as new information or ideas are concerned. I honestly haven't really had to alter or change my lifestyle in any way directly because of the movement with the exception of a few things I've begun doing (by my own choice) like growing some of my own food and participating in more volunteer work functions around my community. I've also started reading more and doing more research on various topics that I was previously unfamiliar with due to recommendations from other "members" I've encountered that shared similar interests with myself. All in all I have found the word "cult" (for the most part) to be a pejorative that is often applied to any group of people sharing similar beliefs, and when used in accusation, is an intellectually lazy attempt to discredit them.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
skeptic23
()
Date: July 12, 2012 11:38AM
I'm not sure The Zeitgeist Movement is a cult, I've never really agreed with that particular label. But I do think it is an e-sect (or Internet-Sect) that promotes an isolating and unhealthy world view. When something almost entirely exists on the Internet, I think it is fair to criticize how moderation is done. On the surface, yes, it was just a forum. But in the context of the e-sect, the forum was a temple.
The idea that dissent was accepted is, from my long experience visiting their "temple", simply not true. I specifically remember one user who was cast out and shunned for no other reason than he opposed the inclusion of 911 conspiracy theories. The goal of TZM and all that was something he fullyembraced, but he opposed the inclusion of conspiracy theories. Peter Joseph Merola himself finally banned him because of his continued dissent on an issue the user thought made TZM look bad. There were also users banned and shunned due to personality conflicts with certain moderators and those close to moderators regardless of the users fully embracing the ideology and goals of TZM. This is not indicative of a group that welcomes or even tolerates dissent. It may sound silly, but if you really believed in something and were shunned by a group simply for having different ideas, even one that only really exists online, it probably isn't like being banned from some random forum you rarely visit.
The forums also contained an enemies list: a list of people's Facebook accounts that were off limits to members. The enemies list contained former members who became critical of TZM and people who had never been members that were critical of TZM. This list was presented as if the names and links on the list were people who were actively seeking out and harassing TZM members, but there were plenty of people on the list who never harassed anyone but were merely critics on some other forum or site. It was very similar to the sorts of lists Desteni keeps. This list was started by VTV himself and defended by him after questioned by members. The enemies list remained on the forums, and stickied, until they were closed.
I don't think TZM is necessarily a terrible thing, simply because it's fairly incompetent atgetting any real exposure or acceptance by anyone outside of TZM. But I also think it's an unhealthy organization because it saps the time, energy and money from well intentioned people and sucks them into a bizarre Internet utopian sect.
The idea that dissent was accepted is, from my long experience visiting their "temple", simply not true. I specifically remember one user who was cast out and shunned for no other reason than he opposed the inclusion of 911 conspiracy theories. The goal of TZM and all that was something he fullyembraced, but he opposed the inclusion of conspiracy theories. Peter Joseph Merola himself finally banned him because of his continued dissent on an issue the user thought made TZM look bad. There were also users banned and shunned due to personality conflicts with certain moderators and those close to moderators regardless of the users fully embracing the ideology and goals of TZM. This is not indicative of a group that welcomes or even tolerates dissent. It may sound silly, but if you really believed in something and were shunned by a group simply for having different ideas, even one that only really exists online, it probably isn't like being banned from some random forum you rarely visit.
The forums also contained an enemies list: a list of people's Facebook accounts that were off limits to members. The enemies list contained former members who became critical of TZM and people who had never been members that were critical of TZM. This list was presented as if the names and links on the list were people who were actively seeking out and harassing TZM members, but there were plenty of people on the list who never harassed anyone but were merely critics on some other forum or site. It was very similar to the sorts of lists Desteni keeps. This list was started by VTV himself and defended by him after questioned by members. The enemies list remained on the forums, and stickied, until they were closed.
I don't think TZM is necessarily a terrible thing, simply because it's fairly incompetent atgetting any real exposure or acceptance by anyone outside of TZM. But I also think it's an unhealthy organization because it saps the time, energy and money from well intentioned people and sucks them into a bizarre Internet utopian sect.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: July 12, 2012 07:23PM
Serval:
"...the word "cult" (for the most part) to be a pejorative that is often applied to any group of people sharing similar beliefs, and when used in accusation, is an intellectually lazy attempt to discredit them."
No.
The word "cult" when used to describe a destructive group has a relatively narrow application.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Also see [www.culteducation.com]
"...the word "cult" (for the most part) to be a pejorative that is often applied to any group of people sharing similar beliefs, and when used in accusation, is an intellectually lazy attempt to discredit them."
No.
The word "cult" when used to describe a destructive group has a relatively narrow application.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Also see [www.culteducation.com]
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:03PM
Skeptic23
This helps a lot.
Perhaps because the ZM forum was removed, the moderators who formerly ruled that roost no longer have an outlet for their puglistic energies unless they go to other discussion venues and try to behave as though they own and control the discussions on places not even owned by ZM.
It may be that ZM's action has shifted away from its website to local chapters and Facebook.
Here is ZM's current site rates according to this one free website report:
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
by contrast, Rick Ross's website does not invite people to go see movies, and doesnt hold local chapters or meet ups. No fliers passed out for RR.com and no presence at rallies, Occupy or otherwise.
Mr Ross has some educational DVDs. And links to books on Amazon written by other people about specific groups for those who want continue their research beyond the resources of the RR.com site.
The RR.com site has an archive as well as a message board. Material is placed in the archive only if it has been published in the media or academic journals.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
For comparison, here is this same websites ranking for Navy Times - an online paper that can be read by anyone but is geared to the interests and needs of current and former US Navy personnel and their families. I'd call it an example of a site where one doesnt go unless one self selects as interested in the content.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Finally, for perspective, here is this same websites rating for Google.com - so one can have an idea of what the stats for the #1 website looks like.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Quote
But I do think it is an e-sect (or Internet-Sect) that promotes an isolating and unhealthy world view. When something almost entirely exists on the Internet, I think it is fair to criticize how moderation is done.
On the surface, yes, it was just a forum. But in the context of the e-sect, the forum was a temple. ...
It may sound silly, but if you really believed in something and were shunned by a group simply for having different ideas, even one that only really exists online, it probably isn't like being banned from some random forum you rarely visit.
This helps a lot.
Perhaps because the ZM forum was removed, the moderators who formerly ruled that roost no longer have an outlet for their puglistic energies unless they go to other discussion venues and try to behave as though they own and control the discussions on places not even owned by ZM.
It may be that ZM's action has shifted away from its website to local chapters and Facebook.
Here is ZM's current site rates according to this one free website report:
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Quote
Thezeitgeistmovement.com is ranked #142,293 in the world according to Alexa traffic rankings. Thezeitgeistmovement.com has Google pagerank #6.
The estimated website net worth and values based on its advertising revenue is around $16,930. Thezeitgeistmovement.com receives 7,731 pageviews per day and generates nearly $23.19 every day in advertising revenue. The average page load time is 1 seconds, which is faster than 52% of sites around the world. Thezeitgeistmovement.com has website backlinks from #2217 website. Thezeitgeistmovement.com has a popular site score rating of 1 out of 5 Stars. Thezeitgeistmovement.com appears to be hosted in United States. Thezeitgeistmovement.com hosted on domaincontrol.com.
Domain Name Thezeitgeistmovement.com
Google Page Rank
Alexa WebSite Rank #142,293
Change In Ranking Newly Added
Estimated Ad Revenue $23.19 Daily, $696 Monthly
Daily Page Views 7,731 Views
Total Backlinks 2,217 [Free WebSite Backlinks Report]
Last Updated 05th Jul 2012
by contrast, Rick Ross's website does not invite people to go see movies, and doesnt hold local chapters or meet ups. No fliers passed out for RR.com and no presence at rallies, Occupy or otherwise.
Mr Ross has some educational DVDs. And links to books on Amazon written by other people about specific groups for those who want continue their research beyond the resources of the RR.com site.
The RR.com site has an archive as well as a message board. Material is placed in the archive only if it has been published in the media or academic journals.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Quote
Rickross.com is ranked #68,268 in the world according to Alexa traffic rankings. Rickross.com has Google pagerank #5. Rickross.com in business since, 21-Jun-1996. The estimated website net worth and values based on its advertising revenue is around $35,287. Rickross.com receives 16,113 pageviews per day and generates nearly $48.34 every day in advertising revenue. The average page load time is 1 seconds, which is faster than 78% of sites around the world. Rickross.com has website backlinks from #2698 website. Rickross.com has a popular site score rating of 2 out of 5 Stars. Rickross.com appears to be hosted in Sweden.
Domain Name Rickross.com
Adult Contents No
Google Page Rank
Alexa WebSite Rank #68,268
Change In Ranking Newly Added
Estimated Ad Revenue $48.34 Daily, $1,450 Monthly
Daily Page Views 16,113 Views
Total Backlinks 2,698 [Free WebSite Backlinks Report]
Last Updated 25th Feb 2012
For comparison, here is this same websites ranking for Navy Times - an online paper that can be read by anyone but is geared to the interests and needs of current and former US Navy personnel and their families. I'd call it an example of a site where one doesnt go unless one self selects as interested in the content.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Quote
Navytimes.com is ranked #105,013 in the world according to Alexa traffic rankings. Navytimes.com has Google pagerank #7. Navytimes.com in business since, 21-Oct-1996. The estimated website net worth and values based on its advertising revenue is around $22,940. Navytimes.com receives 10,475 pageviews per day and generates nearly $31.42 every day in advertising revenue. Navytimes.com has recently shown a 31.98% Growth in the traffic rank. The average page load time is 2 seconds, which is faster than 29% of sites around the world. Navytimes.com has website backlinks from #2932 website. Navytimes.com has a popular site score rating of 1 out of 5 Stars. Navytimes.com appears to be hosted in United States. Navytimes.com hosted on infi.net.
Domain Name Navytimes.com
Adult Contents No
Google Page Rank
Alexa WebSite Rank #105,013
Change In Ranking 49,374 (31.98%)
Estimated Ad Revenue $31.42 Daily, $943 Monthly
Daily Page Views 10,475 Views
Total Backlinks 2,932 [Free WebSite Backlinks Report]
Last Updated 29th Feb 2012
Finally, for perspective, here is this same websites rating for Google.com - so one can have an idea of what the stats for the #1 website looks like.
[www.freewebsitereport.org]
Quote
Google.com is ranked #1 in the world according to Alexa traffic rankings. Google.com has Google pagerank #9. Google.com in business since, 15-Sep-1997. The estimated website net worth and values based on its advertising revenue is around $2.4 Billion. Google.com receives 1.1 Billion pageviews per day and generates nearly $3.3 Million every day in advertising revenue. The average page load time is 2 seconds, which is faster than 43% of sites around the world. Google.com has website backlinks from #4708135 website. Google.com has a popular site score rating of 5 out of 5 Stars. Google.com appears to be hosted in United States. Google.com hosted on google.com.
Domain Name Google.com
Adult Contents No
Google Page Rank
Alexa WebSite Rank #1
Change In Ranking No Change
Estimated Ad Revenue $3.3 Million Daily, $99 Million Monthly
Daily Page Views 1.1 Billion Views
Total Backlinks 4,708,135 [Free WebSite Backlinks Report]
Last Updated 10th Jul 2012
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
skeptic23
()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:27PM
Quote
corboy
Perhaps because the ZM forum was removed, the moderators who formerly ruled that roost no longer have an outlet for their puglistic energies unless they go to other discussion venues and try to behave as though they own and control the discussions on places not even owned by ZM.
I spent countles hours monitoring their forum and I think it is reasonable to say that those in control were, and are, authoritarians at heart. There was a distinct need to control and manipulate users. There was also an orchestrated effort to foster a bunker mentality. It was very much an "us vs them" mentality, where critics and detractors were suspected of being paid government disinformation agents or worse. Threads where the Illuminati, the NWO, global bankers or simply "them" were going to shut TZM at any moment were fairly common and in some ways actively encouraged.
If TZM were competent, it would certainly be a very dangerous organization. Thankfully it is not.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:39PM
When I was a kid, we didnt have the internet.
We had games like Battleship and we had action figures.
One I remember was Rock-em Sock-em Robots.
We had games like Battleship and we had action figures.
One I remember was Rock-em Sock-em Robots.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
skeptic23
()
Date: July 12, 2012 10:50PM
Oh, and Peter Joseph Merola himself personally claimed to have evidence proving that detractors were being paid by "the government" (what branch, agency or department remains a mystery) to stop the Zeitgeist Movement. It would be terrible if he was just saying such things to manipulate his members into shunning outsiders. It would be even more tragic if he actually believed such nonsense. I personally think it is the latter, because one does not list Jordan Maxwell as an inspirational figure unless he is a true believer.
The evidence was never presented and the claim simply became part of TZM's belief system.
The evidence was never presented and the claim simply became part of TZM's belief system.
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