Quote
james kush
Zeitgeist chapter coordinators and members want to kill 1000's of innocent people

Here is a screenshot archive of the conversation http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/RonaldoDeLosMuertos/Zeitgeist%20Forum%20Screenshots/

Here is a mirror of the conversation that took place where leaders within Zeitgeist Movement discuss what a great idea it is to murder 1000's of innocent people.

http://shared.skepticproject.com/citations/7/7d9fe6bd64e91ece60b6c70828d1564433c0d78e/
http://shared.skepticproject.com/citations/4/4e25628eb74bfd7a4ca5d1238619d089d0d1e38e/

Zeitgeist Chapter Leaders wanting to kill 1000's of innocent people is nothing to be alarmed about. Lets ignore this data and all data as VTV suggests because lets face it, ZM is benign and none of the evidence of violence and violent intentions really is relevant towards TZM goals etc. ZM is just a benign fringe group with weird beliefs, which happens to attract people bent on hurting others, and as VTV says, this is common for any group.

So...

When you look at the links that Mr. Kush is now repeating. (Which is what he did before, I might add) you see one user suggesting violence.

Then you see a bunch of other users saying they do not support violence.

So, lets take this in context. Since Mr. Kush seems to think this matter deserves even more attention:

1. The Zeitgeist Forums had THOUSANDS of people using them. They were frequently also used by people like Mr. Kush with sock puppet accounts.

2. I see no evidence of anyone saying it's a "great idea to kill 1000s of people". This is more lying and spin. I also don't see any chapter coordinators saying that. He keeps framing it as "leaders of the Zeitgeist Movement" advocating mass murder. But I don't see anyone there of note. No Jen Wilding, no Gilbert Ismail, no Peter Joseph, etc.

3. We had one person who proposed violence. I banned their account immediately and made sure that it was added to our official forum rules that anyone suggesting that in the future would also be banned immediately. Without warning.

In conclusion:

All you have managed to prove is that a couple of users out of THOUSANDS might of supported the idea. There are crazy people in every large group. The statistics always support that. There are crazy Republicans, Trekkies, Democrats, etc. It's inevitable.

People ACTUALLY kill 1000s of people in the name of Christianity all the time. Does that mean that Christians as a whole support that idea?

You are repeating yourself again James.

Here is my private citizen summation of a cult or a lousy personal relationship:

Unreciprocated loyalty and unmet promises

To re-iterate, the point of providing samples of info generated by TZM is to assiste people to decide if all this drama is worth attention, time and money.

If one happens to have a boyfriend or girlfriend heavily involved in TZM, one may want to ponder if there is a future in the relationship if one chooses to remain skeptical of TZM. , energy and money.

If you are in a band, and your bandleader becomes a convert to TZM and the rest of you are not, this could lead to discord.

All the more reason to have places where one get get all sides of the picture.

[thezeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com]

TZM Trademark ExpiresPosted: 07/27/2011 in Breakdown
Tags: abandoned, criticism, cult, expires, exposed, gentle machine productions, gmp, jacque fresco, justintempler, merola, movies, peter joseph, peter joseph merola, peter merola, pj merola, rbe, resource based economy, roxanne meadows, scam, the zeitgeist movement, trademark, tvp, tzm, united states, usa, venus project, zeitgeist 2Current Status: Abandoned because the applicant failed to respond or filed a late response to an Office action.

Gentle Machine Productions no longer owns the “Zeitgeist Movement”.

Thanx justintempler for bringing this to our attention.

Comments

Albert says:
07/28/2011 at 14:23
I guess that qualifies as a big oops. Would it would not be hilarious if Jacques Fresco bought the trademark and then demanded Peter Joseph Merola stop violating his trademark rights or pay royalties to use it? Or if VTV bought it, ousted PJM, and declared himself Zeitgeist Movement Czar and demand everyone in the movement support him? The possibilities are endless.

Reply

James Kush says:
07/28/2011 at 15:40
HAHAHA what a failure!!!

More on expiration status

[tarr.uspto.gov]

--
Thank you for your request. Here are the latest results from the TARR web server.

This page was generated by the TARR system on 2012-07-03 17:29:30 ET

Serial Number: 85121772 Assignment Information Trademark Document Retrieval

Registration Number: (NOT AVAILABLE)

Mark


(words only): THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT

Standard Character claim: Yes

Current Status: Abandoned because the applicant failed to respond or filed a late response to an Office action. To view all documents in this file, click on the Trademark Document Retrieval link at the top of this page.

Date of Status: 2011-07-19

Filing Date: 2010-09-02

Filed as TEAS Plus Application: Yes

Currently TEAS Plus Application: Yes

Transformed into a National Application: No

Registration Date: (DATE NOT AVAILABLE)

Register: Principal

Law Office Assigned: LAW OFFICE 110


If you are the applicant or applicant's attorney and have questions about this file, please contact the Trademark Assistance Center at TrademarkAssistanceCenter@uspto.gov

Current Location: M1X -TMO Law Office 110 - Examining Attorney Assigned

Date In Location: 2011-07-19




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LAST APPLICANT(S)/OWNER(S) OF RECORD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Gentle Machine Productions

Address:
Gentle Machine Productions
13428 MAXELLA AVE #663
Marina Del Rey, CA 90292
United States
Legal Entity Type: Limited Liability Company
State or Country Where Organized: New York
Phone Number: (347) 725-3836


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GOODS AND/OR SERVICES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Class: 042
Class Status: Active
Computer services, namely, creating an on-line community for registered users to showcase their vehicles, participate in competitions, get feedback from their peers, form virtual communities, and engage in social networking
Basis: 1(a)
First Use Date: 2008-10-01
First Use in Commerce Date: 2008-10-01


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(NOT AVAILABLE)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MADRID PROTOCOL INFORMATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(NOT AVAILABLE)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROSECUTION HISTORY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: To view any document referenced below, click on the link to "Trademark Document Retrieval" shown near the top of this page.


2011-07-19 - Abandonment Notice Mailed - Failure To Respond

2011-07-19 - Abandonment - Failure To Respond Or Late Response

2011-06-06 - Applicant/Correspondence Changes (Non-Responsive) Entered

2011-06-06 - TEAS Change Of Owner Address Received

2011-06-06 - TEAS Change Of Correspondence Received

2010-12-15 - Notification Of Non-Final Action E-Mailed

2010-12-15 - Non-final action e-mailed

2010-12-15 - Non-Final Action Written

2010-12-14 - Assigned To Examiner

2010-09-07 - New Application Office Supplied Data Entered In Tram

2010-09-06 - New Application Entered In Tram


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATTORNEY/CORRESPONDENT INFORMATION

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correspondent
GENTLE MACHINE PRODUCTIONS
13428 MAXELLA AVE #663
MARINA DEL REY CA 90292


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--

However, just six months earlier, Gentle Machine was listed as owning the Zeitgeist Movement.

Can anyone clarify this?

[zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com]

Quote
orylee
I don't expect you to gain anything from it VTV. If you could, you would've already done so. I'm not here to argue with you. We will have to earn the dissociation of cult label with our organization.

Nobody with any credibility has ever called us a "cult". I didn't ask you what you thought I expected to gain from it. I asked you what you thought you were going to gain from it.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
Enough with the hand waving, that is probably not what is really going on, VTV. Your words tell me you don't understand what I said in those discussions, which is why I ultimately had to bring them here. You treated me like dirt for disagreeing with you about something that you still don't seem to quite grasp.

I understood just fine. I also investigated the situation for myself. And it was as I suspected. You were abusive in your tone during a meeting and had a habit of behaving that way. So like other people who have behaved like trolls in the movement you were eventually banned just like people ban people from the communications mediums of organizations all the time. I read the chat logs, and listened to the meeting recording.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
I don't understand your semantics, "Thanks for re-posting most of the argument people gave to you when this came up then. Not sure what you hoped to accomplish by re-posting it here?". If you don't comprehend, then why are you thanking me? I'm pretty sure most people here are now bored and don't care. Do what you want. Mainly I'm here to discuss the words shared between me and VTV in the conversation, but I didn't want to take them out of their contexts, which seems to help from my point of view.

Then contact me on Facebook. This is not relevant to the conversation here. (I doubt you will do that. Trolls generally want an audience.)

Quote
Eric Monsetti
Veneration and devotion for the "Resource Based Economy" , "Peter Joseph" and the top tier "Coordinators" could be included, as promulgated by the founder of TZM and the very few national/international coordinators. Even if there is no direct stated veneration qualifying it to be a cult, TZM still demonstrates that it exhibits characteristics/signs that it is an unsafe group.

It exhibits what signs that it is an unsafe group? Again this is what annoyed me about you in the first place when you suggested you being removed from a coordinator position for being disruptive and abusive to members of the organization makes the organization "cult like". What "unsafe" activities? You were attending Team speak meetings and then were told you were not welcome at online meetings anymore. Nobody came to your house and threatened you. Nobody poisoned your children. Nobody sexually abused you. This is why your suggestion is so asinine. There is no "cult abuse" going on. Judging by your behavior your just another troll with a grudge.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
Also the coordinator structure is designed to give more power to the higher tiers and less power to the lower tiers. Hence, a national coordinator can remove a State coordinator from communication mediums without any discourse from other State Coordinators that are relevant to the decision.

Sort of. You have to do something to warrant it. And you did. The hierarchy you describe is used in businesses, non-profits, activist organizations, political campaigns, etc.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
It's still in progress, but my idea to improve TZM would be to change the coordinator structure from this,

International— [Countries]
State/Province— [ Next lower degree regional distinctions within a given Country ]
City/Town— [ Next lower degree regional distinctions within a given State or Province ]

Into this,

International/State/Province/City/Town

There would be no "lower". I would simply make a distinction between regional location, plus no person can occupy the entire country all at once, so should never be considered capable of being responsible for all that. Whoever wants to be listed under any regional level, should be able to make it so themselves. The terms higher and lower implies a pyramidal structure. All coordinators do the same type of things, so could easily work without any leaders of the coordinators. Coordinators aren't even leaders of non-coordinators in their respective chapters, but information relays to help realize organized action on the local levels.

This would flatten the hierarchy, where as long as privileges are not exclusive to any person due to their title, there would effectively be no structural or inherent centralization or 'inverted T' with regards to decision making, hence more compatible with the ideals of our organization. It already self-organizes itself this way, as the people at the highest levels are still heavily influenced by their grassroots chapter proximity. This can be problematic when they inherit more power, and thus have more influence spilling over in the entire global movement. I witness this taking place. The US chapter is centralized around the State Chapter in California, as that is now where the International Coordinator for United States(JenWilding) and Founder(PeterJoseph) both live and organize local events, and feed off each others inherited power. This can very well change, though. This could apply to the whole world, not just the US.

So you have problems with the way the organization administrates itself. I get that. None of what you described above makes anything a cult.

There is also the issue of what power do people in the "hierarchy" even have? Coordinators organize meetings. Send out newsletters. Etc. There is no "power" they wield that can in any way harm anyone. This is further why this is so silly.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
National coordinators not answering to anyone other than themselves, and not following the TZM Structure. Making unilateral decisions on behalf of other chapters, overruling sub-coordinator (the structural existence of sub-coordinators that answer to higher ranking coordinators also is of a concern) concerns without rational consensus. It is hierarchy as it is absent rational consensus when warranted as spelled out in TZM Structure. The guidelines don't apply to the people who are in the most critical positions.

So lets say for a moment that all of your allegations in this quote are correct. SO WHAT? You are quoting stuff from Rick Ross's cult guidelines and the sort of things he is worried about is people in a hierarchy handing out mass suicide orders. That's why the distinction you are trying to make is so disgusting. So if there is a hierarchy in the organization (You know, like virtually all organizations on planet earth that are not cults.) again, what is the big deal? Why does this warrant you throwing out the word "cult" and abusing the term to try and get attention for yourself?

Quote
Eric Monsetti
“No tolerance for questions or critical enquiry. “

National level coordinator holding my criticism, against me to justify decisions as to whether I am an official coordinator loyal to TZM. So making the personal decision to revoke my privileges that served a function for my chapter's operations.

No, you are leaving out the fact that what was not tolerated was you personally attacking people in chat and going out of your way to be disruptive. I question and critically inquire all the time. It's the manner in which you do so that matters. No organization would put up with the way you were acting. Nor should they. And again, lets look at what we are talking about here. You were removed as a coordinator which means:

1. You don't have access to any mass email functions of chapter websites.

2. You are not the contact point for activists within the organization in your area anymore.

...so? Where is the evil cult abuse? Are members of the Zeitgeist Movement stalking you like Scientology members? Are you receiving harassing emails and phone calls? Have you been threatened? Is anyone trying to coerce you to come back? Are there cars with strange armed men outside your house like Katie Holmes?

No. And the reality is if you were not still conducting this campaign you would likely never hear from anyone in TZM again. No harm was done to you.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
“Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. “

Peter Joseph not disclosing who he really is, out of paranoia that he and his so called ordinary helpless family will be killed or something, and asking/allowing other members to disclose who they really are, as compared to the Anonymous organization. Also Pj making stuff up about his life for perhaps the purposes to improve his image. Again, TZM is not alone, and TVP does really share this warning sign to a degree.

Eric, as I pointed out to you earlier and you continue to ignore. Filmmakers, Authors, Actors, etc all sometimes use different versions of their names. Peter has received death threats. Just like many other authors, filmmakers, actors, etc. His family has also been targeted for harassment. That's reality. It's not unreasonable paranoia. The California and the New York Chapters have both met him. When he is at events it's easy to meet and talk to him. You COMPLETELY took what this "warning sign" is all about out of context to suit your own purposes.

Hell, just the bullshit you see on Kush and Mario's blogs is proof positive of harassment and demonstrates why people have to be careful about using their real names for public endeavors sometimes. My use of my real name has handed them keys to put my personal life in the spotlight. They have taken private photos of myself, my family and my friends and attached them to false articles that are now part of my google index when people search my name. That can affect things like how easily you can get a job. I have also NEVER seen Peter ask anyone or expect anyone to use their names.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
There’s just a lot of things that have never been verified and may negatively impact other members/activists when a time comes when it is forcibly revealed by people who know what they are doing. There are also many people who are not going by aliases, including almost all the rest of the TZM support base. . We can’t have a real conversation until we get confirmation from him or a 3rd party to determine why he truly does obscure his name. I already have hypotheses that seem very valid to me, and if he had gone the more truthful route, it would sully the image of TZM, not put him in mortal danger.

I have already covered most of this. But the idea you suggest "has never been verified" is nonsense. Peter is not asking for large sums of money from anyone. Does not demand "membership dues" and generally pays for most of his activism out of his own pocket and at personal financial risk.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
“Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances. “

There are others who have been wronged in similar ways to me. There are actually videos concerning Jen Wilding’s lack of accountability on youtube from previous State coordinators. Not saying I share all the same views and opinions as the so called ‘trolls’.

Sigh....

Eric, ABUSE and GRIEVANCES include physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse, financial exploitation, people ACTUALLY GETTING HURT. Not people being removed from coordinator positions and removed from mass email lists. Seriously man.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
She [Jen Wilding the sole national coordinator] seems to be making unilateral decisions

Ok, lets pause there for a moment. Making unilateral decisions about what? If you are going to wave the cult label around, lets ask a few questions. Is anyone telling you they are going to have sex with your wife? Is anyone telling you they are going to have sex with your daughter? Is anyone telling you that you are going to have to committ suicide to achieve salvation? Is anyone beating you or threatening you?

No. You got removed from a coordinator position due to your conduct. No more. No less. The ACTUAL victims of cults have REAL stories of abuse.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
I was banned for some technical reason (a recent small disagreement that I can barely remember on US chapter meetings + joking around with some people on TS, where others got the wrong idea about what I said in the context–ie me typing “i’m gonna kill all of you” taken out of its context and taken literally) that I have completely debunked already, and she refuses to recognize it. As she is the sole national coordinator of the entire USA, this puts me in bad standing with TZM-US, even though my own chapter definitely thinks otherwise, as they have already put me up again as the St.Charles coordinator. She had taken me off my chapter’s website without consulting with anybody.Even the person (and the moderator who was contacted by that person) who reported me on TeamSpeak said they felt bad for reporting me (i made a bad joke that this person didn’t catch, probably in part due to I didn’t vocalize it and they didn’t get my tone or were not following the conversation going on)..

Again Eric, you are just not being honest. You were not joking. You were politely asked to stop. You kept going. And again. You don't have anything here that represents cult abuse.

Quote
Eric Monsetti
I can also go into who I think Peter Joseph really is, but I'm not saying I am 100% certain of my theory, and would not want you to be either.

...and? Again. So what? If he is trying to be super mysterious man he is doing a poor job by doing things like appearing on Russia Today, posting videos of himself to millions of viewers on youtube, etc.

Eric, if you actually cared about TZM, you would not be doing any of this. This is obviously about you.

[zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com]

This does not capture the pictures, unfortunately.

The Zeitgeist gResource Based Economyh Transition Plan: Nudist Theme Park 59 comments
Douglas gAnnihilatorh Mallette is a public spokesman for Zeitgeist Movement. One can easily search youtube and see the relationship. Recently he appeared as Peter Josephfs right hand man at the annual Zeitgeist event the followers call gZDAY 2012.

Douglas Mallette is known as the gAnnihilatorh due to comments he made (2010) regarding property crime in a resource based economy. He believed people should be killed without due process in the RBE. He was booted from a leg of an European Speech tour when the promoters found about his violent rhetoric. Here are some images of Douglas Mallette and Peter Joseph at March 2012 ZDAY EVENT with the gAnnihilateh audio:

Now a few weeks after the meeting in Canada with Peter Joseph, the Annihilator has announced plans to create a transitional RBE city by creating a naked city.

--------------

Corboy note:

Just go to Burning Man

[www.google.com]

A new word to put in google searches: zeitard

[www.google.com]

Quote
james kush
Zeitgeist chapter coordinators and members want to kill 1000's of innocent people

Here is a screenshot archive of the conversation http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/RonaldoDeLosMuertos/Zeitgeist%20Forum%20Screenshots/

Here is a mirror of the conversation that took place where leaders within Zeitgeist Movement discuss what a great idea it is to murder 1000's of innocent people.

http://shared.skepticproject.com/citations/7/7d9fe6bd64e91ece60b6c70828d1564433c0d78e/
http://shared.skepticproject.com/citations/4/4e25628eb74bfd7a4ca5d1238619d089d0d1e38e/

Zeitgeist Chapter Leaders wanting to kill 1000's of innocent people is nothing to be alarmed about. Lets ignore this data and all data as VTV suggests because lets face it, ZM is benign and none of the evidence of violence and violent intentions really is relevant towards TZM goals etc. ZM is just a benign fringe group with weird beliefs, which happens to attract people bent on hurting others, and as VTV says, this is common for any group.

Further update on this issue:

I just spoke to Jen Wilding, who helps coordinate all of the chapters in the United States. There were at the time of the forum people who were listing themselves as coordinators who were not coordinators officially. The movement was younger then and less organized.

That said, one of the reasons we took down the forums is because of Trolls like Kush or the Skeptic project folks taking things said by individuals said on the forums (individuals who could of been anyone, including the trolls themselves) and spinning it as "official" statements by the Zeitgeist Movement.

Quote
corboy
A new word to put in google searches: zeitard

[www.google.com]

Again, is your purpose here just to highlight the insults and the trolling?

Also, you have requested information about the trademark thing several times. Why does it matter?

As I understand it, Gentle Machine Productions was the name of Peter's filmmaking company. You start these for tax reasons sometimes.

He sought a trademark so that people could not run around claiming to represent what he was doing, leaving him no legal recourse.

If you don't think that is important, look at all the people here trying to suggest "Zeitgeist members do X" over and over again just because a few people on the internet they believe to be members of the movement did X or whatever.

Quote
corboy
https://zeitgeistmovements.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/the-zeitgeist-resource-based-economy-transition-plan-nudist-theme-park/

This does not capture the pictures, unfortunately.

The Zeitgeist gResource Based Economyh Transition Plan: Nudist Theme Park 59 comments
Douglas gAnnihilatorh Mallette is a public spokesman for Zeitgeist Movement. One can easily search youtube and see the relationship. Recently he appeared as Peter Josephfs right hand man at the annual Zeitgeist event the followers call gZDAY 2012.

Douglas Mallette is known as the gAnnihilatorh due to comments he made (2010) regarding property crime in a resource based economy. He believed people should be killed without due process in the RBE. He was booted from a leg of an European Speech tour when the promoters found about his violent rhetoric. Here are some images of Douglas Mallette and Peter Joseph at March 2012 ZDAY EVENT with the gAnnihilateh audio:

Now a few weeks after the meeting in Canada with Peter Joseph, the Annihilator has announced plans to create a transitional RBE city by creating a naked city.

--------------

Corboy note:

Just go to Burning Man

[www.google.com]

Again, you are quoting a troll blog.

James Kush is an assumed name from an anonymous blog poster who is not held to any sort of standards as to the credibility of his "journalism".

If Doug is into nudism, who cares?

I could go make a word press site right now and use it to suggest that James Kush was into bestiality. Would that be something you would quote to?

I don't see the relevance.