Quoted from article cited above

Quote

179.
Shyam Dodge said
December 28, 2012 at 18:10
In response to Jett (#174):

1. Emotional understanding could be a fair argument in a different
context, except in TNH’s view emotions are something to be transcended
not used to realize non-self. In essence, if you read TNH carefully,
he is arguing that non-self must be realized in isolation–independent of thoughts, emotions, and desires.

I simply used the “independent of intellect” quote as one example.
Jett, if you can point me to a place where TNH describes a process
or methodology in which non-self can be realized via
emotional understanding (or any other quality or faculty of subjective
human experience) I’ll take your points more seriously.

2. You are presuming that nirvana is a thing that exists
in isolation, independent of a particular ideological construct.
The burden of proof for nirvana as a transcendent reality,
independent of a “view”, lies on the shoulders of those who proclaim
nirvana to be such a transcendental truth.

TNH, like you, claims that nirvana is a truth that transcends
views, failing to consider that nirvana might only exist within a particular ideological construct, and without that
ideological basis nirvana ceases to be a relevant idea.

(Corboy italics)

3. You say that you cannot follow my logic.

Let me break it down as concisely as possible: TNH believes that
the only thing that brings freedom is a transcendent truth
(independent of ideology);

secondly, he claims to be able to
contact and transmit such a transcendent truth;

thirdly, he views ideologies as a kind of psychic prison
and that buddhism can liberate the individual from this
interior prison of ideology via realizing nirvana/non-self etc.

Hence my claim that TNH does not, first of all, acknowledge
that his vision of buddhism is a view (or ideology),
that he sees ideology as a prison, and therefore does not
understand the value of ideology as a means of remaking
the world–

Instead he wants to pretend that he can, through buddhism,
escape ideology (or views) altogether.

This is why it is intellectually dishonest.

4. First of all, let me reiterate:

I am claiming that TNH’s philosophy (if you can call it that)
is an ideology that promotes so-called “positive emotions”
and views things like anger as “poison.”

Therefore this ideology is attempting to dictate a
very specific model of both behavior and subjective experience.

I don’t claim that TNH is trying to promote an emotionless version
of the dharma, rather I am arguing that he is prosletyzing
a dharma of “positive emotion” to the exclusion of other emotions
like anger.

This is a kind of prozac buddhism, anesthetizing the buddhist
to the real conditions of suffering in the world. It plasters a
serene face on the potential social-change maker.
Such medicated serenity (meditative) is the opposite of
social engagement, it is dissociation and numbness to reality.

While TNH might do some “good” in the world his lasting legacy
is one of dissociative trance (his version of “mindfulness”)
and not vital passionate social engagement. His emphasis, which
he states very clearly, is on freedom from destructive emotions,
his secondary mission is (as a kind of byproduct)
‘social change’.

I wonder, after so much self-medication (meditation) if
these anesthetized serenely smiling buddhists will have
the wherewithal for social revolution… I think not, if only because
they’ve found internal means of numbing themselves to reality
and suffering–and therefore don’t have the emotional gumption
to do anything other than ‘mindfully’ walk through our
crumbling social structures completely numb to the world.

I’d suggest you reread Foucault and investigate how social
structures implement means of self-regulation that reinforce
and calcify the existing order (no matter how insane), and
then contemplate whether or not TNH is reinforcing this structure
with more potent means of self-regulation or if he is indeed offering
a path of “liberation.”

5. Jett, there is more to my quote regarding “the way of seniority.”
TNH also says that “Western” Democracy could learn from his “way of seniority.”

He claims that it works better than a system where all people have
an equal voice.

Really? Often social change is brought about by the youth of the nation
rising up. What would happen, socially, in the US if the socalled “senior” members of society had a vote that weighed more than that of the
less “senior?”

Who would determine seniority? Would it not simply reinforce existing
power structures, with little to no social change? How is this addressed
in TNH’s communities? I’d suggest you think about these things a
little more carefully, because these are very strong statements that have significant implications politically and socially.

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There has been much information and on-going debates regarding the Dalai Lama's political integrity. I myself am more interested in information about his spiritual qualification. As far as I'm concerned, if a person has real spiritual qualification, he or she may act in ways that might be misunderstood or misinterpreted by the common men, for there may be insights that are lacking in those. However, I have not really come across anything substantial that would affirm the current Dalai Lama's spiritual authority. Does anyone have anything related to this?

Otto Wagner:

From everything I've read, there's nothing that the Dalai Lama has to do, really to have spiritual integrity; he was born with it. It's just his birthright.

I could be wrong, as I'm no expert. But I've also heard him say at the core, he's a "simple Buddhist monk" (I guess he's a "simple Buddhist monk" life after life?)

Regarding his political integrity, who knows, really? I think people just like him because he doesn't say much, so they can interpret his political leanings however they choose. His role is more of a smiling, benevolent, background figure. And they position him how they want and do with him, really, how they like.

I've heard him state a few things that are nice. But like the Pope, he had a built-in following in his home country, Tibet, from which he is now exiled.

I've also heard that for a "simple Buddhist monk" he lives not so simply... but that is not unusual for leaders of religious faiths. The Pope lives in a huge house, as do most others.

Anyway, hope that helps a bit.

What's unsettling about the Dalai Lama is his willingness to take money from cult leaders and/or their supporters in exchange for photo opportunities and friendly endorsements.

He did this with Shoko Asahara, the crazy guru who gassed the Tokyo subway system and more recently with a controversial group called a "cult" nameed NXIVM.

See [www.cultnews.com]

Agree rrmoderator.

as they say "follow the money."

What's even MORE unsettling is his longterm association without flat-out NAZIS, including Heinrich Harrer of "7 Years of Tibet" fame and even worse, war criminal Bruno Beger who conducted experiments on human beings. I think that is covered earlier in this thread, but it always bears repeating. He has never explained any of this and simply doesn't care what people think about it.

Also, many of his "spiritual teachings" published in the West are allegedly copied from other sources, and re-packaged by Westerners who know that bland Oprahisms will sell better to the masses than TRUE Tibetan teachings, which are medieval in their social outlook.

shakti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Also, many of his "spiritual teachings" published
> in the West are allegedly copied from other
> sources, and re-packaged by Westerners who know
> that bland Oprahisms will sell better to the
> masses than TRUE Tibetan teachings, which are
> medieval in their social outlook.


Shakti, do you have a link for an article on this plagiarism?

I don't recall that I've read his books, but others have gone through some of them with a fine-toothed comb, and surprisingly enough, they contain references to tantric sexual technique, and bizarre statements like, "A monk remains pure if he doesn't ejaculate" during sex. Passages like this are in books titled "The Good Heart", and other warm and fuzzy titles. So I don't doubt that parts of these books are by him, or perhaps each in its entirety, but with assistance from Westerners, probably.

The curious thing with that is that he seemingly has no qualms about injecting information about ritual sex into philosophy books, as if that's somehow relevant (?!), but notice that he peddles Vajrayana Buddhism, known to historians as such a highly corrupt form of Buddhism that it inadvertently contributed to the destruction of Buddhism in India in medieval times, as a "religion of kindness". This deliberate whitewashing of a tradition that in its highest esoteric form is founded on the victimization of women is unconscionable.

Where was the kindness in the elder Kalu Rinpoche's use of a teenage Tibetan consort, who ended up dead while in service to him? (The case is thought by some to have been a ritual killing. One wonders how those ritual thigh-bone trumpets, said to have come from the thigh bones of teenage girls, were procured.) Where is the kindness and compassion in the rapes of young women in Tibet who had the misfortune to cross a random monk's path who saw her as a khandroma, a sex goddess, believed to be capable of bringing the monk to instant enlightenment if he could have sex with her? In old Tibet, it wasn't unusual for monks to attack women in the street or on the village path, in broad daylight. If it's a religion of kindness, why do Ladakhi women warn Westerners that some of the lamas "aren't nice", and that they should keep their distance from them? How are the routine rapes of little boy novices to be explained, if this is a religion of kindness?

The fact is that kindness and compassion were very rare in Tibetan culture (abusive slavery was common), and in their form of Buddhism. The religion required the use of 9-year-old (in the Hevajra Tantra), 12-year-old and 15-year-old girls for ritual sex. This, in a culture where women were, and still are, expected to be virgins upon marriage. Not only were those girls traumatized by their experiences should they have the misfortune of catching a monk's fancy, or being given to him as a gift; after a couple of pregnancies, they were tossed out on the street, where their only option for survival was a life of prostitution, as no man would marry a non-virginal girl. Tibet's cities were said by travelers to be full of prostitutes. Their children were kept by the monks to be raised as monastic labor.

In practice, kindness and compassion are more myth than reality in Tibetan Buddhism. Even today, women must guard against associating at all with monks at the holy site of Bodhgaya, let alone in temples or guest houses, for fear of sustaining an assault. Look at the human wreckage "teachers" like Sogyal Rinpoche callously leave in their wake as they sweep through meditation retreats and weekend workshops in the West.

The Dalai Lama knows of these cases. His office has been at times deluged with complaints. His advice is to choose your guru with utmost care, to avoid the corrupt ones. But he says nothing of the fact that the religion at its core requires the sexual exploitation of women. The Kalachakra tantra he's so fond of recommends in its secret teachings gaining sexual access to girls by offering them sweets, and if that fails, to feed them alcohol. He has taught this even to some of his Western students. These teachings may be anachronisms in his tradition, but the Kagyu, Sakya and Nyingma sects (as well as Jonang/New Jonang sub-sect of the Dalai Lama's Gelug school) still routinely use consorts.

Small wonder that monks educated in such a tradition would behave badly when unleashed on naive and trusting Western students. How can the Dalai Lama in good conscience continue his proselytizing of a tradition that harbors these hidden dangers? Does he think that his disclaimer that students should vet any and all teachers before studying with them absolved him of any responsibility?

In case this is useful, here are some quotations from a recent English
translation of a text published in the Tibetan Classics series of Wisdom Publications.

Quote

"The Library of Tibetan Classics is a special series developed by the Institute of Tibetan Classics to make key classical Tibetan texts part of the global literary and intellectual heritages...These texts have been selected in consultation with the preeminent lineage holders of all the schools and other senior Tibetan scholars to represent the Tibetan literary tradition as a whole."

At time of publication, Thubten Jinpa was president of the Institue of Tibetan Classics. According to the endpaper "He (Thubten Jinpa) has been the principal English translator for His Holiness the Dalai Lama for nearly two decades."

Quote

Thubten Jinpa trained as a monastic at the Ganden Shartse monastic university, where he received the Geshe degree and he also holds a Ph.D in religious studies from Cambridge University.

(Quoted from the front end paper covering the volume)

Ornament of Stainless Light -- An Exposition of the Kalackara Tantra

by Khendrup Norsang Gypatso translated by Gavin Kilty

2004 Wisdom Publications

ISBN 0-86171-452-0 (hrd.: alk. paper)

(This volume begins with a message from the Dalai Lama)

Quote

Khendrup Norsang Gyatso (1423 - 1513) was a student of the First Dalai Lama and a principal teacher of the Second Dalai Lama...Because of his dedication to intensive meditation practice for more than four decades as a wandering hermit, Norsang Gyatso came to be revered as a great meditator and teacher,and he is included among the lineage mastersof many important practice traditions, including the lineage of Kalacakra"

(Quotation from back end paper of the volume)


24. The Mind Vajra

Quote

"Some scholars (such as the Master Kumara) assert that the subtle and drop yogas as taught here to be both generation state and completion stage meditations.

They maintain that the generation stage involves relying upon an activity mudra
to move the drop to the jewel and then to draw it up by the power of the winds.

This "water wheel" descent and ascent is practiced again and again until the worldly innate bliss becomes stable.

This, they maintain, is the drop yoga of the generation stage, while drop yoga
and subtle yoga using a mahamudra consort are yogas of the completion stage.

They also explain the Root Tantra line, "a qualified consort aged sixteen" as teaching the six - branched yoga. Ornament of Stainless Light, Chapter 24 page 369.

The author of Ornament of Stainless Light gives his argument as to why "the practice of relying on an activity mudra consort to move the drop down to the jewel" is not a generation stage yoga but is part of completion stage yoga.

A classification quibble, as it were.

Quote

Our own Assertions -

This is under two headings:

1. Correlation with bases of purification
2. An explanation of the practices based upon Root Tantra quotes

Correlations with bases of purification

When a child reaches the age of sixteen, the power of his white element is complete. Seeking the bliss that comes from emission of the drop, he takes a bride and leads her by the hand and so forth.

In correlation with this the vajra master gives a wisdom mudra consort to the student during the initiation.

Yogis meditating on the subtle and drop yogas will relay upon an activity or wisdom mudra consort as appropriate.

In normal existence, from the age of sixteen onward, a man sits in union with a mudra, and the common candali fire blazes from the secret area. The drop melts and gradually descends from the crown to the tip of the organ, thereby increasing the bliss.

In correlation with this, the bodhicitta element descents from the crown to the tip of the vajra through reliancs on one of the two types of mudras and produces the four joys, which are applied to meditation upon emptiness.

This is the drop yoga meditation.

Ornament of Stainless Light, pp. 370-371

Quote

The teachings from the tantra and commentary on the meditations of the subtle and drop yogas of the generation stage in this part of the text are intended
for the primary disciples of the tantra.

These are the jewel like persons destined in one life to actualize the state of Vajradhara. They complete the diety yoga of the coarse generation stage and then meditate upon the subtle and drop yogas.

The explanation from the tantra, therefore, is given on this basis.

Such a person enters the practiced of drop yoga by relying upon one of the two types of consort.

If he uses an activity consort, the Root Tantra says,

A qualified consort, aged sixteen
adorned with youth and beauty
teach her well
then initiate and begin the practice.

A mudra consort must be sought.

She should have all the right characteristics of youth and beauty and be between the ages of twelve and twenty, as indicated by the phrase,
"aged sixteen".

She should be taught thoroughly the fundamental points of practice, receive initiation, be given tantric vows, and be instructed in the deity yoga
meditation.

Then the practice of drop yoga can begin. What is the procedure of this practice?

Body, speech, mind and desire
placed at the brow and so forth,
sva, ha at the secret and crown.

Oneself is clearly visualized as the main deity Kalacakra, and the activity
consort or wisdom consort s Visvamata.

Ornament of Stainless light, page 371



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2015 10:57PM by corboy.

No, sorry, I don't have the links offhand, it's been many years since I thought about that stuff. I do remember reading an article though, years ago, about this. Also, my own perusal of some of his books seemed very contradictory to the ancient teachings. I actually got dragged to one of his events by a friend before I knew the truth, and it was all liberal sweetness and light, not much different than what you would hear from any number of self-help gurus.

Not just a Tibetan thing, many Hindu gurus preach VERY different social attitudes in the West from what they teach at home. They need money from middle class and wealthy liberal westerners and craft their message to that audience. When the more duped followers start to find the truth, they spin it in their own heads and try to turn very regressive notions into progressive, tolerant notions... a benefit of the doubt they would NEVER give to a Christian movement. And, no, I'm not a Christian, just calling it like I see it.