The rumoured donation from NXIVM has never been confirmed, however the Dalai Lama did lend his Nobel Prize Winner's lustre to that group by attending, donation or no.

I also think it important to add that not all tantric systems demand guru devotion, there are some that emphasise critically appraised knowledge to be aquired by the follower. (jnani, non-theistic and non-devotional)

There are rumors circulating about the DL, but nothing confirmed. What is it that your friends and hotel contacts observed? A little more info would be helpful.

Corboy,

Let's put into context the fact that HHDL was virtually unknown in 1980. He was little known outside of Tibetan studies and related circles because the US would not allow him into the country. 1980 was his first visit to the US, after President Carter abrogated the US defense treaty with Taiwan in 1979 and gave diplomatic recognition to mainland China. Until then, the US Congress wouldn't allow the Dalai Lama into the US, nor would they take seriously reports of killings, torture, etc. by Tibetan refugees. US policy on Tibet did an about-face after our relations with the PRC were solidified. A bit of historical background can help people put things into perspective.

To pursue the question about doubts about the Dalai Lama:

When the Dalai Lama comes to the U.S. it's clear that he puts on a jolly Santa Claus-type persona. I believe that this is because he knows that China is watching his every more, his every word, his every sneeze. The easiest way for him to deal with this pressure is to go into warm-and-fuzzy, slightly airheaded, harmless mode. If you watch U-Tube films of him speaking in Asia (especially during the 2008 crisis in Tibet), you'll see that he can be a much more forceful and compelling speaker. He allows himself to express righteous indignation (some might call it "anger"). Al Jazeera is very good at catching him at seemingly angry moments (and at provoking his annoyance by poking their cameras in his face at inappropriate moments). Keep your eye on Al Jazeera for a different view of HHDL.

That said, I would note that so many of his ministers, assistants, representatives and friends are exceedingly arrogant. A few put a good face on it, and, like him, play the warm-and-fuzzy, genial side. But underneath they are, as one person put it, "closet Type-A personalities", and many quite overtly so. They are quick to anger when things don't go their way, and can become verbally abusive. It's a hallmark of the Tibetan elite to blame everyone but themselves for their own mistakes. I know, I've worked with them, and so have some of my friends. But I've never seen, nor heard of, the DL behaving that way. I'd like to hear from the person who initiated this topic, so hear what he/she saw or heard about when the DL was offstage and/or in his hotel.

Hello,

I cannot say that I have met the Dalai Lama in private however I have said hello to him briefly and gone to one public teaching/talk of his.

I fell in love with Tibetan Buddhism after a lot of love bombing I recieved initially and calmness I had recieved.

I agreed to work with a monk under his insistence as a counselor and not a Guru.

To put it short gradually over a period of time he got progressively abusive psychologically.

Until a point I had a nervous breakdown and left.

It was so stressful that I ended up getting boils on top of my head with puss and blood coming out of them.

Times I have since self harmed from the experience and many thoughts of suicide in the past and present.

When I left the whole group bonded and shut me out saying it was all my own fault.

I was told I could not leave behind closed doors.

The monk had a mask for public and one for me separately when we were alone together.

Now when I look back from reading, research and therapy Coercive Thought Reform Techniques were used on me to turn my mind.

I watched youtube videos of the Dalai Lama of his giggling especially on difficult question, then not fully answering the question and then giggling again and saying love and compassion and then making a point off mark.

Saying things like 'Very very bad!' in a forceful deep voice with strong expression or 'Very very good when someone says something he agrees with, from my experience this is a plant by the Dalai Lama in the second case.

They are trying to engage you into religious phobia's through hypnotic suggestion, this giggling stuff is a front a form of love bombing. If they can get you long enough to look into Tibetan Buddhism by trained Monks and Nuns they have an opportunity of capturing your mind.

I recognized the Techniques the Dalai Lama as the chilling same techniques used on me by the monk, when I heard them again I had the same feeling of desire and admiration and a sense of falling in love with the man.

Many of their community will help the Monks/Nuns as their minds are already caught in a subtle trap.

I was unaware that meditation is a form of hypnosis, and you are especially suggestible after performing this. They have discussion sessions after them.


I was excellent at meditation, hence excellent at being suggestible and indoctrinated.

They don't tell you this before you meditate.

[www.freedomofmind.com]

Very similar to transcendental meditation.


[www.youtube.com]


[www.youtube.com]


[www.youtube.com]

Are excellent and extremely similar videos of what happened to me.


After my mind was caught then Monk even told me he had done this too me and it didn't matter now because I knew now the only way to be happy was by helping others.

The biggest trap is the dedication at the end of meditation and prayer sessions etc of dedicating all the merit to all other beings, which is the only way to be happy etc, it sets you up for later heavier indoctrination.

I was so excited I had his approval.

They use this sense of looking for approval by invalidating you a lot after the initial love bombing period; then now and then briefly saying something validating to keep you on the hook.

Put it this way, they have been studying how to capture your mind for 2,500 years.

I have tried many kinds of therapies for over 5 years to heal myself from the experience.





the only therapy that has helped me get better is guess was what...?



CULT THERAPY



none other worked except for this...

Great books to read are...


Captive Hearts, Captive Minds, By Madeleine L. Tobias and Janja Lalich

Dangerous Persuaders (online for free/donation) www.louisesamways.com.au/dangerouspersuaders.html

The Guru Papers


All I have to say is watch out it is a trap, very very subtle trap.

As a result I still struggle to function properly today, I was lucky and had a job I could go to to support myself with my eyes closed that helps support my recovery.

I suggest physical work for anyone recovering to give your mind a rest from indoctrination.


All the best...o)

Iwannabefree: could you tell me more about this case? I've been studying cases of "lama abuse"--mostly sexual abuse, so yours is a new type of case for me. You say the monk didn't want to be your guru, he wanted to be a counselor. There is no counselor role in the Tibetan tradition; was this in some other context? Were you in a sangha, or were you studying one-on-one with the monk? Was the monk a lama/teacher, or just an ordained monk? May I ask what sect/school the monk represented (Kagyu, Nyingma, Gelug, Sakya)?

I think it's important for people not only to choose their teacher carefully before signing on for an extended period, but to choose their sangha carefully. If you take the time to talk to members of a sangha you're considering joining, you'll notice some of them talk a little cultishly. Not all sanghas are like that.

Interesting what you say about there being a clear m.o.: a "love bomb" eventually followed by psychological abuse. I've never run into either one of those (if I'd experienced a "love bomb", I might''ve fallen for it; rather, my observation is that no lama I've ever witnessed has demonstrated anything close to "loving-kindness"; maybe I was lucky in that regard. I never thought of it that way.)

I hope you don't mind sharing your experiences.

I might recommend a powerful acupuncture treatment for helping to clear the mind, and to clear trauma out of the system; it's an old Taoist treatment called "7 Dragons". Not all acupuncurists know it; if you can find an acu who was learned in Taiwan or Hong Kong, or from an older generation of Chinese who learned before the revolution, or a Japanese acupuncturist, this treatment would probably help you. It's remarkably effective for Post Traumatic Stress, for all manner of emotional issues, and more.

I hope you're feeling better,

I've ordered "The Guru Papers", thanks. More questions: was this a Tibetan monk, or a Western monk? Why/how did you get into a one-on-one study situation with him? You're lucky you weren't coerced/manipulated into sex, as other women have been, but it's hard to say which is worse, since you've been struggling with the aftereffects of your experience for years now.

RE: having different masks--it's clear from what women say, who have been coerced into "tantric sex" (which turns out to be ordinary sex), that the lamas do very much have a public persona, which they guard very carefully like gold, and a behind-the-scenes more authentic self (and it isn't pretty!). You're not alone in noticing that. I don't think these techniques are something they all use (or know) however (though I could be wrong), and it may be reasonable to guess that those who do know these techniques use them only on certain individuals who seem vulnerable, for whatever reason. Some of these guys are predatory, either psychologically or sexually, so they look for the emotionally weaker members of the sangha.

Hello, again, Wannabefree. I just read an article on this website, "Thought Reform Programs and the Production of Psychiatric Casualties", that there have been lawsuits filed against leaders running thought reform programs. If you have medical and therapists' records, you might have grounds for a suit--certainly sounds like it.

When Western dharma center leaders travelled to Dharamsala in the 1990's to talk to the Dalai Lama about so many incidents of lamas' sexual abuse of dharma students, HHDL said that women should take their concerns "to the newspapers, and if necessary, to the police". I respect him tremendously for that. So many women have suffered in silence for so long--it's time to come out of the closet and put the blame where it belongs. If you come forward, it may save others from a similar fate. Where one finds a lawyer who specializes in this type of work, I have no idea. But then, you sound like you still have a ways to go in your healing journey before you can tackle a lawsuit. Best of luck.

'I was excellent at meditation, hence excellent at being suggestible and indoctrinated.

They don't tell you this before you meditate.'


I am sorry that you had such a rough time. Any decent meditation teacher would make crystal clear the risks involved in undertaking meditation before you start, it shouldn't be something you have to find out the hard way.
Any decent teacher would also make clear that you are choosing to be influenced by the teacher--and that the choice is and remains entirely with you.

Your point about physical exercise is excellent and important, one of the easiest and best ways to counteract dissociation is a programme of full-body exercise, it teaches you the importance of physical 'action', the real, concrete meaning of 'unity of body and mind.'

'........it is a trap, very very subtle trap.'

Too true, I'm glad you have found your way out of the trap.

I got lucky and found an honest teacher, they are out there--but rare as hen's teeth until you know how to look, by which time you probably don't need them anyway. I benefitted greatly from my association with him, I learned for the first time that there are decent people, with decent motives, in the world--and that they come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

Good luck with your continuing recovery.

Hey,
As for him wanting to work as my counsellor and not a Guru, fitted with what I had asked him.

However in the end it worked out to be the same or worse.

You see initially you see the person as your friend you share all you information with him, in fact I was encouraged too.

This is a cult thing, as then he used all my weaknesses against me.

He was a Gelug practicer, and he was a western monk not a Lama in the senior sense, I was working with him one on one, he was

saying all the right things and I did check him out.

But remember, the great difference is his insistence that he would only be my counsellor, not a Guru/Teacher.

There is a vast gap here, a deception.

So really all this stuff about checking out your teacher is not valid, he only wanted to work as a counsellor, from a Buddhist view

point, but only a counsellor, he said he had a psychology degree before becoming a monk too, which I have subsequently checked

out as correct.

The give away at the end of the day that he made me promise I couldn’t leave once I’d started.

I was rushed and bullied into this.

Loving-kindness is an interested phrase that you used, it is from my view part of Loaded Language that is used in turning your mind.

How great does that sound, Loving-Kindness, it sounds great...

Who woundn't want to be part of Loving Kindness...

Om man padme hum, Love and Compassion...

I remember learning that what Love and Compassion of the mantra meant, something like 'the we may lead all sentient beings minds

being filled with Dharma'

What does this mean to the Lamas to unsuspecting passers by, that is not disclosed...

Flick thru this site...

[www.trimondi.de]


The Shadows of the Dalai Lama, is a book written by Victor and Victoria Trimondi, they were close to the Dalai Lama.


Here is an interesting part of the book that isn't disclosed to you...



Tibetan Buddhism primarily owes its success in the West to two facts: first, the charm and brilliant

self-presentation of its supreme representative, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, and second, the promise to

lead people on the way to enlightenment. Although the tantric path to enlightenment explicitly

involves a dissolution of the ego, it is at first the I of the pupil which is addressed. “I would like to

overcome the senselessness and suffering of my earthly existence. I would like to experience

liberation from samsara (the world of illusion).” When a western sadhaka is prepared to sacrifice his

“little self”, he certainly does not have the same understanding as the lamas of the “greater self” (the

higher self or Buddha consciousness) which the tantric philosophy and practices of Vajrayana offers

him as a spiritual goal. The Westerners believe that enlightened consciousness still has something to

do with a self. In contrast, a teacher of Tantric Buddhism knows that the individual identity of the

pupil will be completely extinguished and replaced by a strictly codified, culturally anchored army of

gods. It is the Tibetan Buddhas, herukas, Bodhisattvas, deities, demons (dharmapalas) and the

representatives of the particular guru lineages who take the place of the individual pupil’s

consciousness. One must thus gain the impression that an “exclusive club” of supernatural, albeit

culturally bounded, beings (Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, gods, etc.) has managed to survive by time and

again occupying human bodies anew (until these wear out). Tibetan Buddhism is not aimed at the

enlightenment of individuals but rather at the continuing existence of a culture of superhumans (yogis,

gods) in the form of possessed people (the pupils). It is concerned here to perpetuate a priestly caste

that does not need to die because their consciousnesses can be incarnated into the human bodies of

their followers again and again. This caste and their deities are considered sacrosanct. They live

beyond all criticism. Their symbols, deeds, and history are set up as exemplary; they are the cultural

inheritance which may not be analyzed but must be taken on blind faith by believers.

For these reasons Tibetan Buddhism’s entire promise of enlightenment forms a trap with which

intimate and religious yearnings can be used to magically push through the politico-religious goals of

the monastic clergy. (We are not discussing here whether this is really possible, rather, we are talking

about the intentions of the Lamaist system.) This corresponds exactly with what the Renaissance

philosopher Giordano Bruno describes as “manipulation”. Bruno, it will be recalled, indicated that a

masterly manipulator may not speak about his actual power-political intentions. In contrast, he flatters

the ego of the one to be manipulated (the ego the masses), so that the latter always believes he is

following solely his own interests and pursuing his completely personal goals — but in truth he is

fulfilling the wishes and targets of the manipulator (without knowing it). Applied to the Dalai Lama

and his religion this means that people practice Tibetan Buddhism because they hope for

enlightenment (liberation from personal suffering) from it, yet in reality they become agents of

political Lamaism and the Tibetan gods at work behind it. The Dalai Lama is thus a particularly

impressive example of a “manipulator” in Bruno’s sense.




Think of all the new phrases you learn all the loaded language, it leads really to the only people you can have a conversation about it openly with understanding is People inside the Buddhist community.

This leads to becoming more deeply being indoctrinated as Buddhism seems to be all that people taught about at the centre's I have been too.

It naturally herds you into become more indoctrinated especially if you are vulnerable.

Then all these people who have taken Bodhisattva Vows etc, see it as there duty to safe you and hence try and plant seeds being planted in your mind.

After a while you can tend to look at people outside the community as unfortunate they are not Buddhist and I somehow must save them.

Some people can handle this in their life's if it what they really want, yet I question if is what they really want as they are being influenced without realizing it.

This obsession with helping others can be extremely unhealthy for quite a lot of vulnerable people, are they really looked out for, or are they just canon fodder if they can't handle it.

An interesting view point can be found on this website

[www.american-buddha.com]


Thanks Misstyk for for offering the advice about acupuncture.

Unfortunately from my experience I picked up a lot of religious phobias and racial ones too from my experience, namely with anything to do with Asian Culture I get a lot of anxiety.

The first helpful way I started to recover was to look at all religions and see how they all had the same story, the same lessons etc, lots of metaphors etc.

Joseph Campbell, had a great video series called THE POWER OF MYTH, which is great to compare religions and Myths of man.

I love what he said in one episode, 'no matter how someone tries to influence to follow your bliss', no someone elses agenda, but what really makes you happy without the influence of coercion.

To really just look at religions as a way of thinking and a way of controlling people, you have someones mind and support, you have power and finances. Subtle, but obviously they need money to survive.

I think when they say you don't have to believe in reincarnation yet and laugh, but after time you may, means 'wait until we influence and indoctrinate you some more until we do have you believing in it, then when you do believe in living an ethical life from hypnotic suggestions we have implanted that you were unaware of to an extreme; then we have control and power over you to direct you where we need you to head'.

We'll change you, but its ok its in the name of 'Loving Kindness', laughing at you like your an idiot and saying ' and you wonder why you suffer', it only hooks you in more, because you don't want too suffer. It creates a dependence on them, childlike, you are being worked. It is very deliberate, but you are unaware of it.

I found the fear induced into me about karma etc about being perfect or I'd go to hell, you know a million life times, I had to break them down and see the manipulation for man of how he created them.

It was a very clever manipulation, so I found it really helpful to look at it all from a scientific point of view.

I used to run to every possible alternative therapy trying to release my trauma, yet if I look at it now I believe most alternative therapies work thru the placebo effect.

I cashed so much money into them and if they really worked so well they would be put into them medicine books and documented internationally, why wouldn't they be unless when tested scientifically they didn't hold up to the thorough testing.

I've found a lot people at Buddhist Centre's tried to convince me of different alternative therapies, but to be honest, I think this is because they get caught up in Mysticism.

This type of thinking for me, was very helpful for someone who wishes to indoctrinate you.

If some of these treatments really worked and proven scientifically or at least if not being able to be explained proven in high %'s to work unquestionably in most cases and not in a placebo way for everyone with a trauma you would be the richest person in the world.


So, thanks for your suggestion Misstyk, but probably anything that hasn't been scientifically been proved and published in Medical Journals I take a big side step from, not to mention having an Asian influence as they at the moment remain great triggers for me.


I apologize I have become a great skeptic now unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately.



Now that's quite some reading to be done, so I'll sign off for now.

All the best...;o)