Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 06, 2011 10:26PM
As a balance to this phase of cleaning up Trungpa's history, do two things:
Go and read what Trunpa's goons did on orders from their crazy wise leader when poet W S Merwin and his wife refused to join Trungpa at a party.
[www.google.com]
That isnt crazy wisdom. That is the worst kind of regressed 'pack' behavior. The Bodhisattva precepts, which apply to the branch of Buddhism that Trunpa was supposed to embody have a list of Ten Grave Precepts and one of them reads in various translations
Beware darkening mind and body of self and other with intoxicants.
For additional balance get and read Stephen Butterfield's The Double Mirror.
Look for it on interlibrary loan. Or if you want to add to your home library, go to half.com or bookfinder.com
Butterfield loved the practices and states he benefitted in many ways, emotionally, and even had improvement in his health.
But he notes sadly, that there were too many times he saw things being done that troubled his own conscience and bitterly regretted not asking questions and speaking up.
Butterfield spoke of Trungpa's contempt for democratic decision making and how Trungpa created a pecking order with badges of rank, and this created the very spiritual materialism that Trungpa had claimed he would help his students eradicate. Instead, Trungpa created another form of hierarchy and rat race mentality, with newer and lower ranking students waiting on the aristos who did the tantric level stuff.
Trungpa could teach about cravings but remained their prisoner.
It is time to retire the crazy wise alibi for good.
Go and read what Trunpa's goons did on orders from their crazy wise leader when poet W S Merwin and his wife refused to join Trungpa at a party.
[www.google.com]
That isnt crazy wisdom. That is the worst kind of regressed 'pack' behavior. The Bodhisattva precepts, which apply to the branch of Buddhism that Trunpa was supposed to embody have a list of Ten Grave Precepts and one of them reads in various translations
Beware darkening mind and body of self and other with intoxicants.
For additional balance get and read Stephen Butterfield's The Double Mirror.
Look for it on interlibrary loan. Or if you want to add to your home library, go to half.com or bookfinder.com
Butterfield loved the practices and states he benefitted in many ways, emotionally, and even had improvement in his health.
But he notes sadly, that there were too many times he saw things being done that troubled his own conscience and bitterly regretted not asking questions and speaking up.
Butterfield spoke of Trungpa's contempt for democratic decision making and how Trungpa created a pecking order with badges of rank, and this created the very spiritual materialism that Trungpa had claimed he would help his students eradicate. Instead, Trungpa created another form of hierarchy and rat race mentality, with newer and lower ranking students waiting on the aristos who did the tantric level stuff.
Trungpa could teach about cravings but remained their prisoner.
It is time to retire the crazy wise alibi for good.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 06, 2011 10:38PM
Note: Trungpa groupies will either not mention the Merwin incident or find ways to make excuses for it, minimize it.
This is classic enabling behavior. No alcoholic or addict can continue in an addiction for very long unless he or she manages to find others who will also participate in the addiction or if non-users, serve to make excuses.
One can learn all about this by attending meetings of Alanon and go to open AA meetings, especially speaker discussion meetings.
Twenty years ago, I participated in a sit in and voluntarily was arrested--nonviolent civil disobedience.
It took many hours at the local jail before the people in our group were released on our own recognizance.
We were left to sit in a large waiting room with lots other people who had been busted for various reasons. The pay phone was situated in the same room and a long line waited to use it.
I overheard one man who had been arrested for DUI--driving drunk.
He was on that jailhouse telephone imploring his girlfriend to lie to his boss and cover up that he had been arrested. He had just gotten this new job and wanted to keep it.
He wanted his girlfriend to lie for him.
The job this man had and wanted to keep was driving a delivery truck for a pizza joint.
So, the people calling Trungpa crazy wise are in the position of the people who give cover stories so that the addicts in their lives can avoid the legal or social consequences.
The problem with being a guru is one can recruit an entire retinue of enablers.
And very many persons willing to rationalize behavior of a drunken or abusive guru are often from homes were this sort of behavior was commonplace. They repeat history by enabling the guru rather than finding freedom.
Am not making guesses here. Have seen this pattern again and yet again.
This is classic enabling behavior. No alcoholic or addict can continue in an addiction for very long unless he or she manages to find others who will also participate in the addiction or if non-users, serve to make excuses.
One can learn all about this by attending meetings of Alanon and go to open AA meetings, especially speaker discussion meetings.
Twenty years ago, I participated in a sit in and voluntarily was arrested--nonviolent civil disobedience.
It took many hours at the local jail before the people in our group were released on our own recognizance.
We were left to sit in a large waiting room with lots other people who had been busted for various reasons. The pay phone was situated in the same room and a long line waited to use it.
I overheard one man who had been arrested for DUI--driving drunk.
He was on that jailhouse telephone imploring his girlfriend to lie to his boss and cover up that he had been arrested. He had just gotten this new job and wanted to keep it.
He wanted his girlfriend to lie for him.
The job this man had and wanted to keep was driving a delivery truck for a pizza joint.
So, the people calling Trungpa crazy wise are in the position of the people who give cover stories so that the addicts in their lives can avoid the legal or social consequences.
The problem with being a guru is one can recruit an entire retinue of enablers.
And very many persons willing to rationalize behavior of a drunken or abusive guru are often from homes were this sort of behavior was commonplace. They repeat history by enabling the guru rather than finding freedom.
Am not making guesses here. Have seen this pattern again and yet again.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 06, 2011 10:45PM
Unlike paper, the internet tends to mutate, as some sources can be taken down or disappear.
So...here is a copy of the google page with citations concerning the treatment by Trungpa and his goons, of Merwin and Merwin's wife.
----------
[www.google.com]
So...here is a copy of the google page with citations concerning the treatment by Trungpa and his goons, of Merwin and Merwin's wife.
----------
[www.google.com]
Quote
Chogyam Trungpa » The Endless FurtherJul 2, 2010 ... Merwin and Naone refused. Trungpa's bodyguards tried to batter down the door to
their room. “I was not going to go peacefully,” Merwin ...
[theendlessfurther.com] - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
Poetry » The Endless FurtherTrungpa's bodyguards tried to batter down the door to their room. ...
[theendlessfurther.com] - 49k - Cached - Similar pages
Re-enchantment: Tibetan Buddhism comes to the WestWhen they refused to be coaxed from their room, Trungpa ordered his guards to
break down their door. Merwin, a pacifist, panicked and greeted the intruders
...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0393019683
A Poet of Their OwnFeb 19, 1995 ... The title poem is evocative of Merwin's drunken grandfather: ... Trungpa's
bodyguards tried to batter down the door to their room. ...
[www.nytimes.com] - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
Stripping the Gurus—A Wild and Crazy Wisdom GuyAn argument ensued, during which Trungpa insulted Merwin's Oriental wife ....
Strip 'em naked, break down the door! Anything—symbolically (in Clark, 1980).
...
[www.strippingthegurus.com] - 44k - Cached - Similar pages
Adventures in PoetryJul 1, 2010 ... Trungpa demanded the door be broken down. The faithful climbed over a balcony
and smashed through plate-​glass doors; Merwin, ...
[www.digitalemunction.com] - 63k - Cached - Similar pages
Amazon.com: Elbert D. Porter "gig...'s review of The great Naropa ...The Guard broke down the locked door to Merwin's room. ... Trungpa threw sake in
Merwin's face, racially insulted Naone, ... Two months in, Trungpa hosted a
Halloween party, at which he showed up drunk and immediately got naked. Merwin
...
[www.amazon.com] - 163k - Cached - Similar pages
Dragon Thunder | Chogyam Trungpa | Red Parrot, Wooden Leg ...When drunk, Trungpa could turn quite fearsome: once, in a snit at his ... The
poet W. S. Merwin appeared at a seminar Rinproche gave in Snowmass, Colorado.
...
[www.ralphmag.org] - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
Sex, Semantics, and Chauvinism, by Rev. Ming Zhen ShakyaJul 11, 2004 ... Trungpa insulted Merwin's oriental wife with racist remarks and threw a ... led
by puerile "Tantric masters" or raunchy, drunken "Roshis". ...
[zbohy.zatma.org] - 42k - Cached - Similar pages
When Hippies Battle: the Great W. S. Merwin/Allen Ginsberg Beef of ...Trungpa was further offended when Merwin and his girlfriend vocally objected to
... The guru, apparently drunk on some sort of spiritual libation that probably
..... that all the guests went along and broke the doors and windows, etc. ...
[www.litkicks.com] - 102k - Cached - Similar pages
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Misstyk
()
Date: February 07, 2011 08:23AM
To his credit, HHDL has spoken out against the "crazy yogi" type, saying that behavior not in accordance with the dharma and the precepts is wrong. That was a few years ago, and my impression was he was speaking about Trungpa, but it could have been anyone.
Thank you for posting these links, Corboy. I hadn't heard of the Merwin affair.
I, too, have noticed that articles and info discussing abuse or malfeasance tend to disappear from the internet over time, so it can be difficult to document one's statements on a discussion board because of that. I'd urge anyone doing research to actually download important items/documents, in case they're removed from the internet at a later date. You'll always have a hard copy record that way.
About that meeting of Western dharma leaders with HHDL about "lama abuse", I was told by someone who knew Sogyal that HHDL actually invited Sogyal to the meeting, to give his POV! Because one thing the dharma leaders were discussing was Sogyal's history, that's one thing that motivated them to organize and call the meeting. HHDL apparently is pretty clueless as to the extent of behavior on the part of any one "teacher", let alone all of them collectively.
Thank you for posting these links, Corboy. I hadn't heard of the Merwin affair.
I, too, have noticed that articles and info discussing abuse or malfeasance tend to disappear from the internet over time, so it can be difficult to document one's statements on a discussion board because of that. I'd urge anyone doing research to actually download important items/documents, in case they're removed from the internet at a later date. You'll always have a hard copy record that way.
About that meeting of Western dharma leaders with HHDL about "lama abuse", I was told by someone who knew Sogyal that HHDL actually invited Sogyal to the meeting, to give his POV! Because one thing the dharma leaders were discussing was Sogyal's history, that's one thing that motivated them to organize and call the meeting. HHDL apparently is pretty clueless as to the extent of behavior on the part of any one "teacher", let alone all of them collectively.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 08, 2011 01:01AM
Misstk wrote
"I, too, have noticed that articles and info discussing abuse or malfeasance tend to disappear from the internet over time"
You betcha. There is a selection bias operating.
When a guru is praised or endorsed, that stays online forever and is quoted and requoted. Laudatory texts praising 'bad boy' or 'rude girl' gurus are preserved.
Information about the exact ways the guru harmed other human beings--will be dropped, or deleted, or swamped and hidden under a growing midden-pile of re-iterated praises.
We have to fight to preserve subversive truths--the kinds of truth that expose the pretensions of guru mythologizing and spiritual pornography--making abuse seem glorious instead of the truth--that abuse degrades.
"I, too, have noticed that articles and info discussing abuse or malfeasance tend to disappear from the internet over time"
You betcha. There is a selection bias operating.
When a guru is praised or endorsed, that stays online forever and is quoted and requoted. Laudatory texts praising 'bad boy' or 'rude girl' gurus are preserved.
Information about the exact ways the guru harmed other human beings--will be dropped, or deleted, or swamped and hidden under a growing midden-pile of re-iterated praises.
We have to fight to preserve subversive truths--the kinds of truth that expose the pretensions of guru mythologizing and spiritual pornography--making abuse seem glorious instead of the truth--that abuse degrades.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 08, 2011 01:07AM
To re-iterate:
Which texts are preserved and--important point--which texts are replicated and multiplied vs those texts that are deleted or out-numbered..
Is, all too often, a decision that operates to benefit vested interests, usually those already powerful that want to keep the PR channels full of their version of history.
The marginalization of minority accounts is worth studying and RR.com is a place where this kind of subversive history can be preserved.
Which texts are preserved and--important point--which texts are replicated and multiplied vs those texts that are deleted or out-numbered..
Is, all too often, a decision that operates to benefit vested interests, usually those already powerful that want to keep the PR channels full of their version of history.
The marginalization of minority accounts is worth studying and RR.com is a place where this kind of subversive history can be preserved.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Wannabefree
()
Date: February 08, 2011 03:49PM
I couldn't agree more that the truths about abusive Tibetan Buddhist Guru's be preserved on Rickross.com.
I am one of the lucky ones that got away.
However I still do experience terrors of mindset and stories put into my head.
With Tibetan Buddhism through right speech and wrong speech abuse and many more subtle techniques over time is gradually forgotten about and if you return they have wired you in a way that they know because they know already how to trigger your terrors THEY will only to happily use them against you because if you return to report the abuse you are only a danger to their other followers doubt or reject their teachings.
Reporting these abuses and keeping them preserved I can tell you from my experience can help greatly because you think you are going insane as it tends to 99% of the time nobody believes you.
To know that it does happen and regularly gives the victim a point to start to challenge the thoughts and ideas that are put into your mind are false, something alien.
From my experiences these thoughts and terrors regularly come into my mind and during times especially of tiredness and stress.
Many screams, terrors and tears and sleepless nights and deep deep deep depression, it is like living in a movie of a horrific mental institution where there are abusive doctors and nurses.
I can assure you I am not the only one who suffers this way.
They are probably to terrified to report into a sites like this for going to hell realms for millions of life times etc.
The basic technique in reality is to get you to hate yourself, to hate your life, mainly western till the point that they have control of you because they control you to think how bad your life was.
You think you're bad if not evil, I've seen it in a novice Nun and followers...
If you are new to this link after a while monks and nuns will shout at you and chastise you, its a bit like being in a war time interrogation but at first you think your monk or nun is your best friend.
It makes it so much more powerful way of interrogation and thought reform through coercive techniques.
Is your friendly Monk or Nun your smiling giggling and charming friend, NO!
PLEASE REPORT AND DISCUSS THESE ABUSES AS FOR CERTAIN I WON'T BE THE LAST, BUT AT LEAST WE CAN TRY AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABUSES.
I am one of the lucky ones that got away.
However I still do experience terrors of mindset and stories put into my head.
With Tibetan Buddhism through right speech and wrong speech abuse and many more subtle techniques over time is gradually forgotten about and if you return they have wired you in a way that they know because they know already how to trigger your terrors THEY will only to happily use them against you because if you return to report the abuse you are only a danger to their other followers doubt or reject their teachings.
Reporting these abuses and keeping them preserved I can tell you from my experience can help greatly because you think you are going insane as it tends to 99% of the time nobody believes you.
To know that it does happen and regularly gives the victim a point to start to challenge the thoughts and ideas that are put into your mind are false, something alien.
From my experiences these thoughts and terrors regularly come into my mind and during times especially of tiredness and stress.
Many screams, terrors and tears and sleepless nights and deep deep deep depression, it is like living in a movie of a horrific mental institution where there are abusive doctors and nurses.
I can assure you I am not the only one who suffers this way.
They are probably to terrified to report into a sites like this for going to hell realms for millions of life times etc.
The basic technique in reality is to get you to hate yourself, to hate your life, mainly western till the point that they have control of you because they control you to think how bad your life was.
You think you're bad if not evil, I've seen it in a novice Nun and followers...
If you are new to this link after a while monks and nuns will shout at you and chastise you, its a bit like being in a war time interrogation but at first you think your monk or nun is your best friend.
It makes it so much more powerful way of interrogation and thought reform through coercive techniques.
Is your friendly Monk or Nun your smiling giggling and charming friend, NO!
PLEASE REPORT AND DISCUSS THESE ABUSES AS FOR CERTAIN I WON'T BE THE LAST, BUT AT LEAST WE CAN TRY AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABUSES.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Wannabefree
()
Date: March 10, 2011 06:50PM
Yippee......!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):)
I just wanted to let people who have been following this thread, including my posts, that I have found a Credible therapy that is helping me greatly recover from the abuses of a Tibetan Buddhist Monk...
It is called SOMATIC EXPERIENCING, it was developed by a man called Peter Levine and authored a book on it called 'Waking the Tiger'.
[www.youtube.com]
It is fantastic, just relying on bodily sensations and facing the Trauma in a gentle and controlled way as not to re-traumatize you.
It should be non religious because it is based around our Evolutionary reactions that are programed into us when we were living as animals as ancient man and how animals quickly recover from traumatic experiences, deep in our minds we still can tap into that ability.
A good Movie/Documentary that helped me understand the process along with my Therapist/Guide is called 'What the Bleep'
Its cool as it draws on Quantum Physics, science and evolution based.
[www.youtube.com]
Another useful source that helped is this link
[www.youtube.com]
Not so much about the eft/tapping but how the mind is working of replaying tracks.
For me the basic facts if you have been through spiritual abuse all that is something that is Man made say maybe 4,000 years or less old.
The idea is that tracks are replayed over and over again in your mind as your mind is trying to recover from a traumatic experience.
Now our nervous system and animal instincts are 100,000 years old or more, while I've been working with my Guide/Therapist I have been recovering from each session and in a way that is more permanent than I have ever experienced before.
For me this is how I see it as credible, from my experience I'm better every day...:)
Even in stressful situations.
Good luck and Peace,
and beware of seductive Guru's,
without a doubt they are trying to hypnotize you even if they really do think it is the right thing to do or not...
I'll keep you posted on my recovery...
;o)
I just wanted to let people who have been following this thread, including my posts, that I have found a Credible therapy that is helping me greatly recover from the abuses of a Tibetan Buddhist Monk...
It is called SOMATIC EXPERIENCING, it was developed by a man called Peter Levine and authored a book on it called 'Waking the Tiger'.
[www.youtube.com]
It is fantastic, just relying on bodily sensations and facing the Trauma in a gentle and controlled way as not to re-traumatize you.
It should be non religious because it is based around our Evolutionary reactions that are programed into us when we were living as animals as ancient man and how animals quickly recover from traumatic experiences, deep in our minds we still can tap into that ability.
A good Movie/Documentary that helped me understand the process along with my Therapist/Guide is called 'What the Bleep'
Its cool as it draws on Quantum Physics, science and evolution based.
[www.youtube.com]
Another useful source that helped is this link
[www.youtube.com]
Not so much about the eft/tapping but how the mind is working of replaying tracks.
For me the basic facts if you have been through spiritual abuse all that is something that is Man made say maybe 4,000 years or less old.
The idea is that tracks are replayed over and over again in your mind as your mind is trying to recover from a traumatic experience.
Now our nervous system and animal instincts are 100,000 years old or more, while I've been working with my Guide/Therapist I have been recovering from each session and in a way that is more permanent than I have ever experienced before.
For me this is how I see it as credible, from my experience I'm better every day...:)
Even in stressful situations.
Good luck and Peace,
and beware of seductive Guru's,
without a doubt they are trying to hypnotize you even if they really do think it is the right thing to do or not...
I'll keep you posted on my recovery...
;o)
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
Misstyk
()
Date: March 11, 2011 01:51AM
Congratulations, Wannabefree! I've heard of Somatic Experiencing; experienced trauma therapists say it's the greatest. I'm so happy for you. :D
Has everyone heard the news, that the DL has resigned his function as political leader of the Government-In-Exile? Some speculate that this is due, in part, to his health difficulties. He wants to have a successor in place before he becomes incapacitated (or worse). In any case, it's a democratizing step.
Has everyone heard the news, that the DL has resigned his function as political leader of the Government-In-Exile? Some speculate that this is due, in part, to his health difficulties. He wants to have a successor in place before he becomes incapacitated (or worse). In any case, it's a democratizing step.
Re: "Doubts about the Dalai Lama"/
Posted by:
grainne uaile
()
Date: June 27, 2011 01:31AM
I used to admire the Dalai Lama, and then I joined Tibetan Buddhism. Next I found out that my teacher taught the Kalacakra Tantra, a sexual text. He was a student of the Dalai Lama, who also teaches the Kalacakra Tantra. Only when you hear about the Kalacakra Tantra empowerments that the Dalai Lama gives they are about peace, which is one aspect of the Tantra, but if you read the Tantra it is against all other religions and speaks of a holy war, which according to Tibetan Buddhists is not what it is really about, instead a spiritual war inside one. Who knows?
I just know that after I learned that my teacher was teaching the empowerments that included using sex in meditation I left. He denied it vehemently. But I found that New Jonang actually does teach it, which lineage he is part of. The lies that these lamas can tell amaze me. I also bought from Amazon, The Commentary of the Kalacakra by a lama who was a student of the Dalai Lama, and it went into detail of the sexual practice, which my teacher claimed, if read by a Westerner they think it is sexual when it isn't. Well, you can't read it any other way.
Women are being greatly harmed in Tibetan Buddhism due to these so-called Buddhist practices, which of course they are not his teachings at all. And in Tibet they used children.
I started a blog to try to gather up what I have learned, and it is here: [downthecrookedpath-meditation-gurus.blogspot.com] It also goes into Self Realization Fellowship, The Vedanta Society, and the Dangers of Meditation, but it is new and so a work in progress.
wannabefree, so many women have been harmed and fear speaking out, that you are probably a drop in the bucket. I hope your therapy works for you as I am sure it will. I used positive thinking years ago after the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I suffered for 13 years before finding out how well it works. Thanks for speaking out. Many women have been threatened with harm if they do, and so they don't.
I just know that after I learned that my teacher was teaching the empowerments that included using sex in meditation I left. He denied it vehemently. But I found that New Jonang actually does teach it, which lineage he is part of. The lies that these lamas can tell amaze me. I also bought from Amazon, The Commentary of the Kalacakra by a lama who was a student of the Dalai Lama, and it went into detail of the sexual practice, which my teacher claimed, if read by a Westerner they think it is sexual when it isn't. Well, you can't read it any other way.
Women are being greatly harmed in Tibetan Buddhism due to these so-called Buddhist practices, which of course they are not his teachings at all. And in Tibet they used children.
I started a blog to try to gather up what I have learned, and it is here: [downthecrookedpath-meditation-gurus.blogspot.com] It also goes into Self Realization Fellowship, The Vedanta Society, and the Dangers of Meditation, but it is new and so a work in progress.
wannabefree, so many women have been harmed and fear speaking out, that you are probably a drop in the bucket. I hope your therapy works for you as I am sure it will. I used positive thinking years ago after the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I suffered for 13 years before finding out how well it works. Thanks for speaking out. Many women have been threatened with harm if they do, and so they don't.
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