Yakaru, all I can say is: Thank god the legal system has no truck with the 'divinely inspired teachings' of conmen.

And hasn't he already done enough that is obviously dangerous and fraudulent? :)

What is seen time and time again with these Gurus, is that they never stop unless they are forced to stop.
What can stop them?
Criminal and civil courts and the authorities.
But even then, if they are sued and lose, they just go broke, and then start up again.
Even when the FTC or Attorney General comes down on a new age Guru for fraud, the guru just changes tactics, and keep going with new products. That has been seen over and over again.

Even if/when they go to jail, they even are able to operate to a degree, in the worst cases, but at least they are controlled. But once they get out, they go right back to business.

The Gurus have made a calculated conscious choice, their choice is to do what they want to do. They love being a Guru, that is what they want to do, they get power, control, easy money, they get to do deep influence on their followers, and they get to feed their narcissism. Their choice is to be a Guru and exercise that power.

Off the top of the head, can't really think of a serious Guru who has given it up, until they were forced to by jail, and even after jail, even the most disgraced Guru just move to another country/island and keep going, or live in a boat in an undisclosed location for awhile, then try to make a comeback.
The only thing that really stops them is their own mortality.

Anticult: Amen (if you'll pardon the expression :-)) One who comes to mind immediately is Kevin Trudeau, aka True-dough. Though not originally or specifically a self-help guru per se, he is a serial con artist, and recently has dipped heavily into the lucrative New-Wage/Law of Attraction pool, through his association with Joe Vitale, et al. True-dough has been in prison and has been fined millions of dollars, and he just keeps on keeping on. To my knowledge he hasn't killed anyone, so I don't really think he belongs behind bars, but he is so full of b.s. it's hard to believe so many people are still listening to him. (I just watched part of his latest infomercial again last night, and literally LOL'd.)

And by the way, I take back what I said recently about possible over-reach re James Ray and Abraham-Hicks. Even though I'm sure Jerry and Esther want nothing to do with JAR, it seems JAR has been trying to rip a few pages from their book, so to speak, with his Twittering about Vortexes and such.

As an aside, since the authorities can't really stop most Gurus, except the most serious who get life in jail, then what?

The mainstream media doesn't do very much in that area, as it doesn't make profit and is too risky. The mainstream media are the ones who promote new agey Gurus to sell their books and products, which are usually owned by the same media conglomerate. So their TV division is promoting authors from their book division in some huge media company.

It seems the only way to really slow the Gurus down is for former members to speak out and inform the authorities and the public about what the Guru has done.
Citizen activism.
Former members and concerned members of the public speaking out and tell the public what the guru is really doing.

Before the internet, that was basically impossible.
But now the information can be uploaded easily, and shared with anyone.
And direct action with protests at events can be done as well.

The Gurus and other scammers are very fearful of the public who explain what they are doing and speakout against it.

That is why con artists like Joe Vitale are so freaked out that there are bloggers who criticize his scams, and those blogs are often just a hobby for smart people and skeptics. Joe Vitale cannot comprehend why a person would tell the truth for free, instead of lying to make money. It doesn't compute in his brain.
You can see the Guru sitting there trying to understand...
...why are all these people trying to expose me for free..instead of trying to make money with selling smoke?
The Guru can't comprehend that.

But maybe the only way to really control the damage by these Gurus is for the public, and citizen activists to speak up and act up, and where they is illegal activity to report it to the relevant authorities, and to follow up, and keep reporting it until they do something about it.
And to educate the general public by explaining and exposing the Gurus.

Yes, Kevin Trudeau, who might defined as a health-quack scam artist conspiracy Guru...
the authorities banned him from certain types of infomercials, so he just did a slightly different type of infomerical. They fine him, he just changes tactics.
He doesn't care, it just makes him angrier.
Kevin Trudeau used to sell memory-programs, he'll sell anything that makes a profit. He picked calcium as its cheap, and they can mark it up 10,000x.
He moved into "health" as desperate sick people in pain will spend money.
Next he'll sell magic water, magic rocks, magic pendants, basically anything CHEAP that can be marked-up 10,000x.

Then use all of his KevinTrudeau sales and influence tricks to extract money from vulnerable and gullible people.

But you don't have to kill people to go to jail.
There are MANY people in jail for years for various forms of fraud, or obstruction of justice, white collar crime, and they deserve to be.
Those committing health fraud and scams should go to jail. Many LGAT Gurus should go to jail for fraud, and misleading illegal health claims, and obstruction of justice, like when they remove papers.


And actually, Abraham-Hicks has been deflecting for James Ray to their own people, that is a fact.
[forum.culteducation.com]
" @lizmarshall also, Abraham does not condone punishing/tarring of @JamesARay (see my other tweet for where to get full track) 9:28 AM Mar 5th "

Most New Age Gurus would support James Ray 100%, but of course they will wait until after the trial, just in case he gets convicted.


Just as a side-note, most of this material is focussed on the more serious aspects of this area. Not people buying a crappy book for $20, but the people being scammed for 20K in a weekend, and even 100K. That is serious, and it happens all the time.
People get lured into an LGAT Guru seminar system from a $20 book or Youtube video, and within days, weeks, months, they get scammed for 20K-50K.
If they get lured deeper, then it can go over 100K into millions, and many go broke, and there are suicides, psychosis, mental breakdowns. It happens all the time, as anyone in the LGAT business knows.

That is why they all have those massive waivers, to try to protect the Guru.
Waiver of Liability, Risk, Indemnity Agreement [forum.culteducation.com]

When those don't work, they counter-sue, and if they have to, make a minimum pay-out to the injured with a gag-order to not talk about it.
Its just the cost of doing business, and its a tax-write-off for the Guru.

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Cosmic Connie
Anticult: Amen (if you'll pardon the expression :-)) One who comes to mind immediately is Kevin Trudeau, aka True-dough. Though not originally or specifically a self-help guru per se, he is a serial con artist, and recently has dipped heavily into the lucrative New-Wage/Law of Attraction pool, through his association with Joe Vitale, et al. True-dough has been in prison and has been fined millions of dollars, and he just keeps on keeping on. To my knowledge he hasn't killed anyone, so I don't really think he belongs behind bars, but he is so full of b.s. it's hard to believe so many people are still listening to him. (I just watched part of his latest infomercial again last night, and literally LOL'd.)

And by the way, I take back what I said recently about possible over-reach re James Ray and Abraham-Hicks. Even though I'm sure Jerry and Esther want nothing to do with JAR, it seems JAR has been trying to rip a few pages from their book, so to speak, with his Twittering about Vortexes and such.

I agree, Anticult, that $20.00 crap-books are not the big problem here. They can be a stepping stone to 'harder drugs,' but they're not the big deal. I hope you don't think I'm trying to underplay the more serious harm that LGATs, etc. can inflict on some people. I'm not. As for Abe-Hicks, I agree that they're con artists. You won't get any argument from me on that point either. I'm no fan of Abe-Hicks and have snarked repeatedly about these "stars" of the Imaginary-Friends segment of the New-Wage industry. And I have no doubt that, like most New-Wage culty groups, Abe-Hicks has a "dark side." They certainly seem to attract their share of folks who are short on empathy for others, and long on greed and narcissism.

However, there's one little point I am still trying to clarify. I would love to know for certain if Abe-Hicks are in fact actively doing anything on behalf of James Ray (which is what I thought some folks were implying here recently, and which I thought might have been over-reaching). Does anyone have exact quotations from "Abraham" about the James Ray matter -- e.g., something Esther would have said at that L.A. workshop that some tweeters mentioned? Is there a source where I can listen, view, or read transcripts myself without having to pay $ to Abe-Hicks? I saw the quotation from someone on Twitter who said Abraham does not condone "tarring" of James Ray... but that's really not the same as actively advocating for him, and, again, it was on this point that I expressed doubt.

When following the thread on Liz Marshall's Twitter page I came across a "life coach" named Christina Merk, who cited the Abraham comments at the L.A. workshop. Someone asked her, "so how does abraham feel about [James Ray's] wilful disregard for human life/depraved indifference?"...

Christina answered: "that is definitely part of the vibrational mix for sure ... as were beliefs/actions of the ppl who died too. big co-creation."

To another Tweeter, Christina wrote, "it was all a complex vibrational co-creation. a vibrational match in different ways for different reasons."

(These exchanges took place on March 5 of this year.)

So I get that some Abe-Hicks *fans* are doing the deflection thing, either by paraphrasing Esther/Abe or putting their own spin on the matter, but I would love to get quotations straight from the con artist's/artists' mouth(s). In fact, the standard Abe-Hicks line seems to be that everything, good or bad, that happens to a person happens b/c that person's vibrations are in tune with the event. But again, that doesn't seem to be singling James Ray out; it's just the usual Abe-Hicks rationale. As the Holocaust went, so goes the Death Lodge. It's all the same to Jerry, Esther and Abe.

It may seem that I'm putting too fine a point on the matter, and really, I'm not trying to be argumentative or stubborn or dense, just trying to get some things straight. Remember, I'm still learning about this stuff too. :-) No matter how much I think I know, something always comes along that surprises me.

I agree with you completely about this point, though, AC: "Most New Age Gurus would support James Ray 100%, but of course they will wait until after the trial, just in case he gets convicted." That's about the size of it. I wrote about that myself on a recent blog post.

As for jail, I simply don't know if our prison system as it now exists is the best solution for non-violent/white-collar criminals, even notorious serial scammers. They're just burdens on the taxpayers that way, and when they are locked up there's little to no hope of their making money to pay restitution to their victims. Yet I also realize that more often than not there's no way to make sure they pay restitution to victims anyway, since, as has been discussed here and elsewhere, so many of the scammers hide their assets in so many devious ways. I really don't know what the answer is. As with so many other things, I'm still thinking about it.

From Rumorrat, another online video sermon from JAR, pitching some moneymaking events:

[rumorrat.com]

"And so it begins.

Last week, New Age guru James Arthur Ray reared his unattractive head for the first time since posting bail and regaining his freedom pending trial on three charges of manslaughter.

Today – as promised – he took to the internet again… again from the safety of what is presumably the $4 million home which sits protected inside a gated community off Mulholland Drive in a “Beverly Hills-adjacent” area of L.A.

And today, James began what he promises will be a series of talks in which he will share “seven fundamental principles that I have found to literally impact my life in so many ways, in fact probably change my life.”

Follow along now…

A Purpose
A Vision
A Mentor
A Practice
A Coach
A Group
A Retreat
Perhaps you’ll notice that the first two on his list of seven… a purpose and a vision… are things that are undoubtedly free of charge.

But is it The Rat’s imagination here, or do the last seven things on the list sound like people or things or functions that come at a price, in terms of dollars?

After all… people by the thousands have in one way or the other paid Ray in the past to be their mentor and their coach.

They’ve collectively shelled out millions to be a part of his groups and retreats.

See where this is heading?

James Ray might be without a business at the moment (as he claimed in last week’s online message), but you can bet your bottom dollar that won’t be the case for long, should he somehow wiggle his way out of the criminal charges against him."



And Cassandra Yorgey has an article on the witness statement of the Angel Valley co-owner, Michael Hamilton:

[www.examiner.com]

Hey, any hustledork worth his or her salt will find a way to charge people for helping them determine their "purpose" and their "vision" too. Nothing comes free of charge with these jokers.

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Stoic
I like the frog and scorpion story but don't think it applicable here. Human beings are considerably more removed from their basic natures than either frogs or scorpions, they are socialised from birth to rise above the instinct to kill for pleasure or gain or simply because of a whim of the moment.

Whatever James Ray learned from his own early socialisation process, he has also spent a lifetime immersed in a culture with a very heavy taboo against killing that is constantly reinforced from all sides. It takes a willful disrespect of that taboo, exercised over a very long time, to allow the disregard of the lives of his fellows that JAR has shown.

When I say Ray doesn't have a choice, I don't mean he isn't disciplined, can't control himself, or can't appear to fit in with the surrounding culture. The ability to make those choices serves his pathology, and it's the pathology that's compulsory.

Sociopathy, like true pedophilia, isn't a choice and isn't curable. Sociopaths cannot change. Ray, like a scorpion, is what he is: a socialized psychopath.

Pedophiles, like sociopaths, understand perfectly well that their behavior violates moral and civil laws; lack of understanding and socialization isn't their problem, and no amount of jail time, victim impact statements, or psychological counseling affects them in the slightest.

Pedophiles usually exert a great deal of control over certain aspects of their behavior. They're careful to keep their activities concealed, they threaten their victims so they won't tell, and they work very hard to be either the kind of person children like or the kind of person children inevitably spend time with. Those are all choices, and they all serve the pedophile's pathology, just as a sociopath's choices serve his pathology.

Monsters exist, and James Ray is one of them. Unfortunately, he looks like a human being. He understands there are laws, and he probably obeys some of them, not because he has a conscience, but because he's a socialized psychopath, and appearing to conform to middle-class norms is a very useful part of that socialization.

If he'd had a serious criminal record, didn't know how to put on a suit and tie and brush his teeth, or didn't have the social skills middle-class professionals expect, Oprah would never have presented him to her viewers as an expert on how to live.

He also wouldn't have been able to attract the kinds of people he likes to use. People with enough money to buy him the expensive toys he uses to impress himself and others, with enough desire for better lives that they'll place themselves in situations where he can legally torture them, and with enough social capital that he can demonstrate--once again to himself and others-- that he's an important, superior person.

The Jungian analyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes wrote a wonderful essay several years ago about the very instructive fairytale Bluebeard.

She made the point that the world contains all kinds of people, and some of them, like Bluebeard, are ethically and spiritually deformed. They're just that way, and that's it. They endanger humans just by being who they are, and since they cannot be reasoned with or rehabilitated, they must be caged and contained.

In the fairytale, Bluebeard is an immensely wealthy, sophisticated man who lives in a marvelous castle. He's looking for a bride, and approaches a family with several daughters. The older sisters turn him down cold, because there's something about him that makes the hair on the backs of their necks stand up whenever he's around. He's off-putting, despite his friendliness and great personal charm. And then there's that odd blue beard. He just seems a little off.

But the youngest sister is intrigued, and decides to overlook her sisters' petty prejudices. Why judge Bluebeard by appearances and indefinable feelings? He's so much more interesting than the provincial local boys! He's worldly and well-traveled, and, because he's been to exotic places and met all kinds of people, he tells the most fascinating stories. He's also extremely generous, and promises that the woman who marries him will lead a life of luxury and ease.

I think we can all see where this is heading. Bluebeard's young bride, at the very last minute, listens to and acts on her intuition. Unlike the unfortunate people in the Death Lodge, she escapes with her life.

This fairytale has been around a long time; sociopaths existed centuries before psychiatrists labeled them. Bluebeard was one of them, and James Ray appears to be another. In the fairy tale, no one expected to have a sudden insight into his horrible crimes and change his ways; members of the public stopped him from ever hurting anyone ever again. If our court system does not imprison Ray for life, then I hope people will learn one of the other lessons this fairy tale teaches: that a man may smile. and smile, and be a villain.

Quote

If he'd had a serious criminal record, didn't know how to put on a suit and tie and brush his teeth, or didn't have the social skills middle-class professionals expect, Oprah would never have presented him to her viewers as an expert on how to live.

Well, here is another area where we might thing of raising some outrage:

Challenging media impersarios/impresarias who run influential TV shows etc and reminding them to use their power and influence wisely and benevolently, by fact checking anyone who wants to appear on their show.

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On her program, guest Wayne Dyer says - “there are no accidents in a perfect universe”

Oprah: “You all talk about energy in the universe and how it flows and we flow with it what do you mean by that?”

Wayne: “the whole thing is perfect” (we need to be unattached) “Everything is thought and thought is energy-everything is from thought.”

Oprah (teaching her audience- “Everything starts with thought, got that…”“The base upon what you think that is how things manifest because this is how you act because what you think.”

Oprah then tells a story about her losing her luggage and normally she would blame it on the airlines but she now thinks it is her fault. “I thought the universe was trying to tell me if that’s what you want this is what you are going to get ”….The porter shortly afterwards told her they found her luggage.

(Oprah show, 1987 with guests Wayne Dyer, Shakti Gawain and Arnold Patent).

Shakti Gawain in her book Creative Visualization whom Oprah highly recommends, We should be open to accept the goodness of the universe. … to receiving the blessings of this abundant universe”( Creative Visualization pp.51-52).

[www.letusreason.org]

(In a 'Its-a-small-world note, Arnold Patent apparently was influential in assisting a Dutch radio personality to develop a Netherlands New Age self improvement shtick called Speigelogie, aka Spiegeltje or in English, Mirrorology, propagated through fanclubs.

[members.ziggo.nl]

This stuff spreads rapidly across frontiers and can be easily modified and transmitted just by contacting receptive owners of media portals. )

Now, back to our discussion at hand.

A Modest Proposal

We citizens have to drive it home that if media tastemakers want to get rich, and become influential, thats fine. But...it is time to insist that even if not professionals, in any traditional sense, as persons of influence, media moguls should be considered to be under an ethos of care in relation to the audiences who enrich them and empower them by giving attention, which means, a media tastemaker had better fact check the background of anyone who wants to advertise themselves or their product on that tastemakers program.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2010 03:11AM by corboy.