Current Page: 9 of 154
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: SeekingTruth ()
Date: October 21, 2009 07:18PM

Quote
corboy

This next URL is from ShirleyMacLaine.com website discussing this current matter.

[74.125.113.132]

Here's a better link:

[www.shirleymaclaine.com]

ST

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: SeekingTruth ()
Date: October 21, 2009 07:26PM

At this thread the poster opines that:

[www.newagefraud.org]

"And finally, no one ever pays for a sweat lodge. Ever. Participants may bring food to share, or wood, or work for the building and maintenance of the sweat lodge, or even share gas money with those who struggle to make it to the ceremony—but no money. Anyone who charges any money for any sweat lodge is not doing it for family, tribe, or as a celebration of the feminine."

====

Sweat Lodge is also part of the ayahuasca scene. I attended one so-called healing retreat with a shaman who'd come over to Europe from Peru. The retreat included a sweat lodge ceremony - at extra cost. There was about 20 of us. During the ceremony one of the stones burst and released toxic sulphurous fumes - luckily the door was open and the dome was not entirely sealed. I do seem to remember that they used plastic tarpaulins covered over with old carpets. I am horrified to read that the tarps could have given off other toxic gases. It also rained for most of the weekend so the carpets were well sodden making a perfect seal.

But the appalling thing about the ceremony was that a father, mother and young female child of about 3 were also in there with us. The two adults were trying to heal a relationship issue and the needs of the child became secondary. She was obviously not happy about being in there. Eventually she started to really cry and was clearly becoming distressed. I said to the shaman that the young girl's distress was causing some of us concern and that she should not be in there. He turned to me and basically told me that it was OK for her to be there, that she wasn't really distressed, and implied that I should mind my own business. A few minutes afterwards the mother took the girl outside and left here there to play in the cold. The mother returned to the dome. There was a deep pond in the garden - luckily the girl didn't stumble into it and drown.

====

It seems that sweat lodges are also a selling point for spiritual retreats all over Europe. Every single one of which you have to pay for. Indeed New Age and pseudo-shamanic businesses have sprung up offering specific sweat lodge retreats. And they're not cheap.

ST.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2009 07:29PM by SeekingTruth.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 21, 2009 09:53PM

The discussion here is 5 pages long and continuing.

[www.newagefraud.org]

As this is the Native American community speaking, here is the URL. Will not quote
because too much has been taken from that community already.

Options: ReplyQuote
James Ray - bogus sweat lodges with plastic coverings
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 21, 2009 10:15PM

This is interesting that these various New Wage and LGAT groups are using bogus "sweat lodges" with plastic and unbreathable coverings.

There is a YouTube vid with some satirist sarcastically phoning up the James Ray company and asking them if they learned how to build a sweat lodge from the Mankind Project.

Some wilderness LGAT guru must have figured out some years ago, that sticking a plastic roof on the bogus sweat-dome did what they wanted to do.
As if they used a proper roof, then the heat escapes, and oxygen comes in from the draft, and its less hot and humid.
So some diabolical LGAT guru figured out that covering it with plastic and unbreathable material makes it a lot hotter, more humid, and most importantly creates oxygen deprivation.

That is deliberate folks. That is not a "mistake".

But any toxins from the plastic are minor compared to the lack of oxygen. The plastics are just being heated, not burned.

Some diabolical LGAT and new wage persuaders have deliberately created a "seal" on these bogus sweat-domes, to create oxygen deprivation, to use as a tool/weapon.
Again, that is not a "mistake", its 100% conscious and deliberate.

Cut their hair off, take their ID, deprive them of food, water, oxygen, and then hammer them with your brainwashing as they are delirious.
And the oxygen deprivation can create that euphoria, which the wilderness LGAT leader then takes credit for.

It is scary that anyone would build/enter a overheated structure covered with plastics in the wilderness.
That is akin to having a BBQ indoors.
You can easily die.

If someone ever had one of these bogus sweat lodges, just punch about 5 large holes in the roof to create a draft. Or rip it down on the spot.
Brain damage from oxygen deprivation is not something to fool around with.

Options: ReplyQuote
James Ray, sweat lodge + plastic coverings = lack of oxygen = death
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 21, 2009 10:29PM

Well, here it is.
The deaths are being reported as being consistent with oxygen deprivation.
And the so-called sweat was about attaining a "higher level of consciousness", which these wilderness LGAT psychos are doing by using oxygen deprivation to create a false high and disoriented state of mind.
(notice the Leader sits right by the door to get fresh air, of course he knows exactly what is going on)

And they use the standard LGAT technique of SURPRISE which is about putting people off balance.

One has to hope the public clues in that the oxygen deprivation is DELIBERATE, and not an accident.
The wilderness LGAT Guru's have turned a sweat-lodge, into a modified type of overheated oxygen deprived brainwashing tent.
That lowers people's resistance, especially when they are starved, dehydrated, delirious from lack of sleep, overheated, and deprived of oxygen for proper brain functioning so they go into some euphoria.

They then hammer them repeatedly with their "suggestions" about the Guru and his seminar systems to create the deepest lifelong bond possible between the followers and the Guru.
That is how they do it.

Then those advanced students are supposed to become lifelong devotees, and go back to their home areas and spread the message, and bring in more business.
These wilderness LGAT guru's are extremely reckless, they must think they can get away with a few deaths a year at their seminars, due to their waivers.

This is somewhat a new area, the wilderness LGAT seminar. Take it out of the hotel, and into the wilderness.


__________________________________
[www.azcentral.com]#
Survivor's story offers look inside sweat lodge
First a 36-hour fast, then pressure in stifling heat
by JJ Hensley - Oct. 21, 2009 The Arizona Republic

The leader of a Sedona-area sweat-lodge ceremony that left three people dead had encouraged participants to fight through the pain brought on by the extreme heat in order to achieve a higher level of consciousness, said an attorney for a southern Arizona woman who survived the ordeal.

Before the ceremony, the leader, personal-development guru James Arthur Ray, had sent participants on a 36-hour outdoor fast in which they were denied food and water, the attorney said Tuesday.

Sidney Spencer passed out in the two-hour sweat-lodge ceremony that Ray ran at the culmination of the "Spiritual Warrior" retreat, said her attorney, Ted Schmidt. She spent four days in a Flagstaff hospital with multiple organ failure, he said.
...
Participants had each paid more than $9,000 to congregate with Ray and were isolated in the woods outside Sedona without food as part of a "vision quest" for about 36 hours before the sweat-lodge ceremony began, Schmidt said.

Representatives from Ray's organization picked up the participants the morning of Oct. 8 and returned them to the retreat center where they had a small meal and were brought into a lecture hall for the final day's events, Schmidt said.

"(Spencer) says that, in fact, when they were in the lecture that Thursday, they knew it was the last day, and they thought it was the conclusion of the program," Schmidt said. "At the end of the lecture, (Ray) says, 'I have one more surprise for you, we're going to go outdoors and we're going to have a sweat-lodge experience.' "

Late that afternoon, Spencer and the other participants were told to change into some light clothing and brought journals they'd been keeping to a fire pit set up outside the 415-square foot enclosure covered with blankets and tarps.

Spencer and the others burned the pages of their journals and waved burning sage around their bodies, among other rituals, Schmidt said, before they filed into the pitch-dark sweat lodge sitting in circles surrounding the middle of the structure's floor.

Rocks were brought in from a blaze set up outside the sweat lodge, Schmidt said, and placed into the middle of the large circle, with Ray calling out occasionally for assistants to bring more rocks in.

When Ray called for the fourth or fifth round of glowing rocks, Spencer realized she was having trouble breathing and decided to leave the next time the lodge's door was opened, Schmidt said.

Ray, sitting by the sweat-lodge door, encouraged his clients to fight through the urge to leave the sweltering structure, Schmidt said.

"There was certainly a level of intimidation, of humiliation," he said.

"There was a feeling among everybody that this was the end (of the retreat), and they really needed to obey him and stick it out."

Spencer never exited. She passed out instead and was taken to Flagstaff Medical Center in a helicopter.

She was sitting in the outer row of the circle and was among the farthest from the entrance to the sweat lodge. Participants on either side of Spencer were among the three who died.

"It appears the people in the back row experienced the most severe temperatures," Schmidt said. "There was no light inside this thing; no temperature gauge or monitor."

An attorney for Liz Neuman, 49, who died Saturday, said that the sweat lodge wasn't properly constructed and that Ray did not provide adequate medical care.

"This was a death trap," said Louis Diesel, a Flagstaff attorney. "Liz died of multiple organ failure, which is consistent with lack of oxygen and being held without appropriate oxygen."

Schmidt said most of the attendees at Ray's retreat had participated in other events with the spiritual-financial guru in the past; they had developed a sense of trust in Ray's teachings to fight through obstacles to achieve a higher realm of spirituality.
...
____________________________________



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2009 10:40PM by The Anticult.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Ray, sweat lodge + plastic coverings = lack of oxygen = death
Posted by: Kronos ()
Date: October 22, 2009 02:49AM

Another participant speaks out...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j4PHcSvMF8pPe_CpIRZejl7OD1vgD9BFKMJO0

AP Newsbreak: 1st sweat lodge survivor speaks out

By FELICIA FONSECA (AP) – 48 minutes ago

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — A woman who took part in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony tells The Associated Press that the spiritual guru who led the event pushed participants too far in what was supposed to be a life-expanding experience that culminated with people vomiting and passing out on the floor.

Texas resident Beverley Bunn is the first participant in the tragic incident to speak out publicly about the events that led up to the deaths. The 43-year-old told the AP in a series of interviews this week that by the time the sweat lodge ceremony began, the participants had undergone days of physically and mentally strenuous events that included fasting. In one game, guru James Arthur Ray even played God.

Within an hour of entering the sweat lodge on the evening of Oct. 8, people began vomiting, gasping for air and collapsing. Yet Bunn says Ray continually urged everyone to stay inside. The ceremony was broken up into 15-minute "rounds," with the entrance flap to the lodge opened briefly and more heated rocks brought inside between sessions.

"I can't get her to move. I can't get her to wake up," Bunn recalls hearing from two sides of the 415-square-foot sweat lodge. Ray's response: "Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round."

By that time, Bunn had already crawled to a spot near the opening of the sweat lodge, praying for the door to stay open as long as possible between rounds so that she could breathe in fresh air.

At one point, someone lifted up the back of the tent, shining light in the otherwise pitch-black enclosure. Ray demanded to know who was letting the light in and committing a "sacrilegious act," Bunn said.

The account marks a significant revelation in the investigation because it portrays Ray as driving participants to stay in the lodge despite signs all around him that the situation had gone horribly awry. Until now, few details had surfaced about Ray's actions inside in the sweat lodge.

Investigators are considering bringing charges against Ray in a case that has cast a harsh spotlight on him and his self-help empire as he led dozens of people into the sweat lodge during a five-day retreat that cost more than $9,000 per person. He has hired his own investigative team to try to determine what went wrong.

Ray led the group in chants and prayers during the ceremony, Bunn said. People were not physically forced to stay inside but chided by Ray if they wanted to leave as he told them they were stronger than their bodies and weakness could be overcome.

Bunn lasted the entire two hours, but nearly two dozen others suffered serious injuries that sent them to the hospital.

Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee, died upon arrival at a hospital. Liz Neuman, 49, of Prior Lake, Minn., lingered in a coma for more than a week before dying.

Sheriff's investigators in Arizona's Yavapai County are treating the deaths as homicides but have yet to determine the cause.

Investigators are looking into the construction of the sweat lodge, the fact that people had fallen ill at previous sweat ceremonies led by Ray and questionable medical care on site as they try to determine whether criminal negligence contributed to the deaths and illnesses.

Authorities have said a nurse hired by Ray was directing rescue efforts including CPR when emergency crews arrived. Ray is the primary focus of the probe but others also are being investigated, Sheriff Steve Waugh has said.

"I too want to know what happened that caused this horrible tragedy," Ray wrote on his Web site Tuesday.

He vowed to continue with his work.

"I have taken heat for that decision, but if I choose to lock myself in my home, I am sure I would be criticized for hiding and not practicing what I preach," he wrote.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Ray - bogus sweat lodges with plastic coverings
Posted by: SeekingTruth ()
Date: October 22, 2009 02:55AM

Quote
The Anticult

There is a YouTube vid with some satirist sarcastically phoning up the James Ray company and asking them if they learned how to build a sweat lodge from the Mankind Project.

Here's the video:

[www.youtube.com]

Lots of videos on YouTube

[www.youtube.com]

ST.

Options: ReplyQuote
"In one game, guru James Arthur Ray even played God" sweatlodge deaths
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 22, 2009 03:45AM

[www.google.com]
AP Newsbreak: 1st sweat lodge survivor speaks out
By FELICIA FONSECA (AP)

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — A woman who took part in an Arizona sweat lodge ceremony tells The Associated Press that the spiritual guru who led the event pushed participants too far in what was supposed to be a life-expanding experience that culminated with people vomiting and passing out on the floor.

Texas resident Beverley Bunn is the first participant in the tragic incident to speak out publicly about the events that led up to the deaths. The 43-year-old told the AP in a series of interviews this week that by the time the sweat lodge ceremony began, the participants had undergone days of physically and mentally strenuous events that included fasting. In one game, guru James Arthur Ray even played God.

Within an hour of entering the sweat lodge on the evening of Oct. 8, people began vomiting, gasping for air and collapsing. Yet Bunn says Ray continually urged everyone to stay inside. The ceremony was broken up into 15-minute "rounds," with the entrance flap to the lodge opened briefly and more heated rocks brought inside between sessions.

"I can't get her to move. I can't get her to wake up," Bunn recalls hearing from two sides of the 415-square-foot sweat lodge. Ray's response: "Leave her alone, she'll be dealt with in the next round."

By that time, Bunn had already crawled to a spot near the opening of the sweat lodge, praying for the door to stay open as long as possible between rounds so that she could breathe in fresh air.

At one point, someone lifted up the back of the tent, shining light in the otherwise pitch-black enclosure. Ray demanded to know who was letting the light in and committing a "sacrilegious act," Bunn said.

The account marks a significant revelation in the investigation because it portrays Ray as driving participants to stay in the lodge despite signs all around him that the situation had gone horribly awry. Until now, few details had surfaced about Ray's actions inside in the sweat lodge.
...
Ray led the group in chants and prayers during the ceremony, Bunn said. People were not physically forced to stay inside but chided by Ray if they wanted to leave as he told them they were stronger than their bodies and weakness could be overcome.
...
_________________________________________

Options: ReplyQuote
James Arthur Ray "a challenge designed to make him face his fears
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 22, 2009 03:55AM

More reckless and dangerous behavior at the James Ray LGAT seminars.
Below is a news report of them doing "a challenge designed to make him face his fears", that was extremely dangerous.

As stated previously, that is what they do at these LGAT seminars along these lines.

How it works is the Guru elicits the person's "ultimate fear in life". They put them in the ACTUAL situation, called "in vivo" where the person is taken right to the place they fear it would happen. They are then pushed right to the edge, even over the edge. [forum.culteducation.com]

How reckless were they being with Colleen Conaway at the Horton Plaza in San Diego July 2009, where she died?

_______________________
[www.kpho.com]#
Man: Sweat Lodge Leader's Actions 'Reckless'
Former James Arthur Ray Followers Speak Out About Another Incident
October 21, 2009

PHOENIX -- In the days since three people died in a Sedona sweat lodge, very little information has come out as to what actually happens during James Arthur Ray's seminars.
One couple, however, believes the man some call a self-help guru might have gone too far even before three people died.

"(Ray is) very charismatic," said former follower Kurt, who requested his last name not be used. "He's a great speaker. He carries his presence very well. He comes across as somebody who has his act together as a leader."

His wife Lauren agreed.

"He has a very powerful message," she said. "He gets people motivated, and he's very good at what he does, and it's effective."

Kurt and Lauren turned to Ray about three years ago when they paid thousands of dollars to attend a weekend seminar in San Diego.

"You're very immersed, and (the seminars) go late into the night," Lauren said. "You leave kind of having your mind blown, saying, 'I'm thirsty for more. I want more. I want to step out of the work-a-day, everyday existence that I've been living sort of unconsciously.'"

The couple immediately signed up for two more seminars, each one longer and more expensive.

These seminars were "much more intense, way more metaphysical, way more esoteric," Lauren said. "You're in kind of an altered state when you're in there."

It was during that altered state that Kurt and hundreds of others did something most people would see as reckless, he said. Participants were required to sign a waiver that released Ray of any responsibility if someone got hurt.

"They had us put the sharp side of the arrow … (a) true, real archery arrow right on the soft part of your neck," Kurt said. "There's no bone behind it, just the real soft area .. your trachea is right there and your spine behind it, and you lean forward into the arrow."

As Kurt leaned into the arrow -- a challenge designed to make him face his fears -- his fear was realized.

"When the shaft snapped, a large piece went up under my glasses and penetrated my eyelid," he said. "(It) just missed my eye by an eighth of an inch. It was a deep cut -- probably needed stitches."

"I was greatly concerned," Laura said. "We could not tell if his eye was intact. It was a bloody mess."

Kurt and Lauren said they believe Ray was not prepared for anything to go wrong.

The event did not have the proper medical staff, and it took time for them to dig around for a first aid kit, Kurt said.

"I thought, 'Wow, they are not prepared for the potential there,'" he said. "At that point I thought, 'This is reckless.'"

Years later, Kurt had the same thought after hearing about the sweat lodge ceremony that left three people dead.
...
"I just started thinking about the people inside the sweat lodge, and what it was like having been at a James Ray event," Lauren said.

She said that people, after having "been through spiritual expansion in an altered state," were unable to read the signals their bodies gave them.

Lauren said she believes Ray was responsible for Brown's death. She also raised questions about the use of a plastic tarp in a sweat lodge.

"James Ray is the first one to say toxins are to be avoided, and plastic tarps from the hardware store … are made of a polyvinyl chloride," she said. "They outgas hideous substances, so I have concerns with that."

Officials in Yavapai County said they're treating the deaths as homicides. They have not been able to question Ray about what happened.

Kurt said Ray's actions surprised him.

"He fled the state -- didn't even talk to police," Kurt said. "That doesn't sit right with what his teachings are. There's something going on. I sense hypocrisy and that's frustrating me."

The couple said they also worried about the workshop's survivors. They said Ray did a disservice to them, too, because he took participants into a deep emotional state and didn't, in essence, debrief them afterward.
...
_________________________________________



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2009 04:02AM by The Anticult.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Arthur Ray - 2 die at Arizona retreat's sweat lodge
Posted by: swampseer ()
Date: October 22, 2009 11:08AM

To the RRForum, AC, and Regular Contributors,

My enduring thanks for your efforts, here. You do an enormous service to folks who do internet research before signing up, attending, or buying into LGAT seminars. It was the information available on this forum that prepared me to protect myself at my one LGAT experience; without you, I can't imagine where my credulity would have led me. You don't mince words. Bless you for that.

May these be the lasts lives lost to LGAT gurus.

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 9 of 154


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.