In Jordans action, which we see above, I would say that there is a major breach of trust demonstrated. This breach of trust is what is normal in any student-teacher relationship. Personal information that is said in private is supposed to be kept confidential. Jordan violated ha confidence. If such an action is not illegal than it is unethical.

Somewhere else I mentioned some examples to how people were instructed to “not to question” through the contradictory method of “Gnosis is about questioning and experience”.
I do not know if you have seen this B-movie names Mars Attacks with Jack Nicholson, where he is the president of usa and some Martians come to destroy earth. They say “hi, we come in peace” and the same time they destroy and kill everyone. Every time they say this in the movie they kill someone. More or less this is an analogy. Nobody killed physically someone in the Gnostic Movement.

Mentally and psychologically can be another thing. Here is an example.

A female student, instructed initially not to attend a Gnostic centre due to her reasonable questioning on a ridiculous and out of proportion demand they had, received an instruction which in a few words said this.
“Dear student, in order for you to be able to come here again and not to be characterized as a negative person and thus kick you out again, you must obey every single thing the instructor tells you, not to question him/her at all, not to question the teachings, not to (bla-bla-bla)…” and such. And so on and so forth. They also mentioned to her that she had to have no contact of any kind with her friends and coworkers who were not at the time in the Gnostic Movement, and a series of other things, who seemed -apart from dictatorship- a demand from a bad tempered brat. The ugly thing was and is, the brat is an instructor. Still.

But, the danger in this was not the temper of the instructor. There clearly shows that someone needed a slave and it gave to another person she didn’t like, the framework to become one, clearly. Something like put up or shut up thing.
The same method but not with written emails happened the last 1,5 years with smaller length instructions, which we can call “threats” of the type of “if you want to be in, do only what we tell you”.
Reminds something like a Mistress and her Slave something. Doesn’t it?

Many foul things like this were mentioned in reports towards the international council of Gnostic Movement, but things after this got more bad instead of getting corrected. In fact, senior students with proven bad behavior became instructors. “Promoting” loving and caring and democracy? Think again!

What I got from that was that in Gnostic Movement if someone progress and starts to find things from his own and really questions things and has experiences, serves nothing to others who want to manipulate and use him.
Think it for a while…

Thanks sayallnow.

I look forward to hearing more from you. That is quite a helpful account.

Hi there.
Here is another one...

Some people were "advised" not to attend the Gnostic Movement. Read the instruction given. Notice the democracy and openness.

---------------------

Hi X,

We received this instruction from Gnostic Movement especially for you.

There has been a lot of gossip going to "X guy" and we don’t like gossip, so while you are in contact with "X guy" it is better that you
don’t attend the Movement. Up to now we have allowed it, but all these things are coming back to us.

Some clarifications are: ...any type of contact, by phone, by email, for any subject,...

---------------------

Well, what do you think? The same member who emailed this to several people, on behalf of gnostic movement was the one whose wife sent over the previous post I mentioned here.
Actually, gnostic movement cannot force you to NOT to attend the centers, lessons, etc. Why? Isn't Gnosis separate from time and space? Free to all? Open to all? Isn't in the will of each person to decide to work on this or not?
Is there a mechanism that "advices" people to not to attend? Based on what decisions? Owning Gnosis with intellectual rights? That will be something to hear.
Is it their own? Do they act through esoteric higher beings? Do these beings say "let's throw these guys and girls out and not let them hear the teachings?. Let's say these guys are negative. This will do the trick. Or better let's say to all that they are black lodge something apprentices or similar. Yeah, this will be great". Probably these beings don't say but plain humans do.

Surprise! People want to change because they have issues. They have problems, Egos, call them whatever you like. If they were OK, they wouldn't attend any esoteric or other school. Isn't that so?
Do you see the contradiction here?
Well, a reasonable answer to this would be that simply the guy(s) who sent over all "feedback and gossip" (about the ones needed to be kicked out) couldn't deal with the fact that those people actually tell the truth. Or, that he cannot handle them and make them blind believers and such they cause him trouble. Or he is so incapable to instruct and help, so the easy way was to eliminate obstacles (in our case students). You know, the old misinterpretation of Disintegration. If you don't like, send it away.

But stop... Aren't the Masters saying that we must not avoid daily troubles and obstacles? Not to avoid! Think it for a while... Don't they say that we learn through this? That in everything we don't like in a person there is the very same defect we must work upon ourselves. Think it for a while...

Why this could be happening indeed?

Could it be that the whole structure is wrong? Not the teachings, but the organization/mechanism.

Now take all this to the international proportion of gnostic movement and think it some more.

So, I see a model here. Like, again, abandon friends and coworkers and be one of us. Yeah? How come? Because you say so and you like to decide who are the people I am going to be friends with, work with, and more? Because I started finally seeing through and I can have my own understandings and these do not match with their blind following instructions? That I found that all Masters/Teachers say not to follow any organization, any teacher, any guru? But you there say and ask obedience to one?

Are these people out of proportion? Are they even listening to what they say and write? Did they even forget what they read in books theoretically?

Where is the actual esoteric work in this? It's nonsense. Give power to someone to see what he is really made of, said one of my mentors in business.

But the main subject is still open.

Why all these happening so blindly? How come nobody listens? How come nobody actually wonders or questions?

People who are following this discussion would likely also be interested in this forum on Samael Aun Weor [forum.culteducation.com]

And here is a spanish website to discuss the same. www.lagnosisdevelda.com

there are only 3 words you need to know in regards to The Gnostic Movement :

"Religious Cult Group"

plain, simple, clear and easy to understand, and by the very definition of The Gnostic Movement being a Cult, it is therefore unnecessary to discuss if their information is any good or not, since its impossible to make any progress inside a Cult group, since what a cult like The Gnostic Movement does is rob you of your individual expression, your own judgement, your own freewill etc. In order to do this, it puts you down, belittles you, and makes you feel like nothing while it is everything.

On the other hand any kind of real spiritual journey is about being true to yourself, being awake, aware, conscious, enlightening your own self etc. and not giving a damn about phoney's like Belzebuub better known as Mark Pritchard and their fanatical, obsessive compulsive ways.

No one who says they are the only way, the only living master, that to go against them is to betray them and shut yourself out from anything spiritual, that their organisation is the only one, etc etc. can be genunine.

Lets be clear here, these kinds of people, are not nice people, The Gnostic Movement being comprised mostly of life's losers and being inhibited by its own silly doctrine, is probably not as bad as Scientology and some of the other famous groups, but any cult is comprised of high functioning delusionals, leaders and their inner circle that have given way to some kind of fantasy that they will do anything to protect. Its almost insane.

There are better places to learn about Astral Projection, Meditation, Consciousness, Awareness, Self Improvement etc. and what's worse is The Gnostic Movement and Belzebuub lock you out from many other worthwhile things that are missing from their information, which incidently is mostly plagarized from earlier groups.

So be true to yourself, and carve your own way in life, and don't rely on any one else to do it for you, lest you end up becoming their slave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2010 12:13PM by savedatlast.

You wouldn’t find so far detailed postings about Mark, Edith and their Gnostic Movement, because:
a) People because of fear wouldn’t mention details, especially people in high ranks. So they would spend the rest of their lives avoiding to do that, keeping it inside them.
b) There is team (including legal persons) that are constantly monitor internet, removing where possible anything written about them.

However this is going to change now. Because there are people that are going to start talking, revealing the truth of things that are only known to a few.

We feel like we have to warn about this organization and their leaders, not because of revenge, not because of bad feelings (even if they think and promote that we are doing this), but because we have an obligation to all those that we have taught and to all those that have been used to the end.

People have given everything to them and the Movement, some have sacrificed their families, neglected their children, been mistreated and got seriously ill, while Mark and Edith were supported financially and have not been working for 10 years or more (doing all their tasks, including personal tasks, fixing houses for them, etc). And all of this happened gradually so that it won’t get noticed, and at the end they get all the benefits, doing their hobbies behind the scenes, and of course ... giving some ’Gnostic’ talks here and there.

The problem is that nobody is going to understand that apart from those that have really tried a lot with personal experience and with getting over fanaticism, fear, obsessions, etc.

And believe me, there are only a very few that did that if any at all. And most of them are not in the Movement anymore.
People unfortunately settle down and refuse to investigate what is considered obvious, they become trapped in their own experiences folded in different forms of illusions.

The leaders of the organization are hidden in the background, acting in sneaky ways, appearing only to a very few that have absolute trust and only for a while, so that their mistakes are not visible (since the ones close to them are already blind), and they can act however they like.

Members and teachers of that Movement called us negative, bad, even black magicians and many other things – and they keep doing. And yet they are talking about love and compassion.

However, it is not their fault. They really don’t know what they are doing. They are deceived in the same way that we were deceived.

They use twisted Gnostic terms to justify their actions. They are talking about ‘investigation’, ‘knowledge’, ‘love’ when exactly the opposite is promoted.

They are lost, and responsible for that are mainly the leaders of that organization that are consciously taking advantage of them.

And yet the leaders have the full support of everyone. And this is also done in a very clever way. Since most of the students create an opinion about them from the books, idolizing them, and at some point they stop questioning without having any experience, or whatever experience they have is influenced by their already formed opinions. And from this opinion they can excommunicate family, friends and whatever else they are asked for. They are completely blind even to facts and evidence. Literally everything is justified as ‘a test’ or an ‘attack of the black lodge’. And the greatest excuse of all ‘You need to have your own experience’. Which is like saying ‘You need to get to that city that is hundreds of miles away, by car, when you don’t know how to drive’. And therefore things are never investigated because the capacity to do that is not there, and eventually situations are forgotten, and people stay in that illusion, yet ‘spiritual’ world.

As I mentioned before, the leader’s appearances are minimal and mostly with advanced (already influenced) students. And therefore any mistakes the leader does is unnoticed, since the ‘awareness mode’ of the advanced students is ‘switched off’ when they are in front of them.

Students ignore any personal experience that they may have, just because of what they are told and from the ‘faith’ they have developed. They have really no idea of what is happening and that’s the saddest thing of all.

It is tragic because most of the students have very little if none experience and yet the blindly follow spending their lives and of course eventually they will leave, ‘fail’ in their Gnostic terms.

I really wish for people to see, though I don’t have many expectations.

I hope that a small window of light will open to a few of them to realize what is really happening.

Gnostic Movement teaches that almost everyone is a blind man. Gnostic Movement says that we came in this world to awake ourselves, not to follow anyone but experience things and learn through our investigation by doing practices, doing the esoteric work... And the esoteric work is all about the three keys:Alchemy, Elimination of Egos, Sacrifice for humanity. There are tests on the esoteric path, difficult situations you have to face and overcome in order to investigate and eliminate in yourself hidden aspects of you psychology etc. There are small and 'big' details, there is a whole body of teachings, books trying to describe all these, talks about that, discussions, forums etc.

But guess what? Before you learn all these fascinating things you have started to talk about i.e. the fifth initiation of the Second Mountain and you forgot that you are a blind man... You have started to work all day about your Gnostic Centre or for the Gnostic Movement and you forgot you are a blind man. You have started to say VM Belzebuub instead of Mark Pritchard and you forgot that you are a blind man...You have no time to do any practice (because you have to work for your living and then go the centre and clean it, cook food for the events, do posterings, write to forums, do lectures, listen to lectures, prepare lectures (if you are a teacher or you are preparing to become one)) and forgot that you are a blind man...

Actually right now you just know that you are 'blind' and you start thinking that you are doing all these in order to awake yourself. And then you feel that if you don't do any of these given to you you'll 'fail' and you'll miss the opportunity to walk along the path: this is written in the books.

You are still blind BUT now you behave like knowing what you have to do. You lost any sense of real 'investigation'. You live your life based on plain words without any real meaning. You talk about life, difficulties, inner peace, love, egos, etc and all these are just plain words. It is not a secret: when you want to construct a reality first of all you have to construct a vocabulary and then use it. Then you can do whatever you (or they) want and say the opposite while you're doing it i.e. You teach that 'the door to repetance is the last one that is closed' and in the same time you tell all your obedient staff to remove anyone who is punished from their social network... This is not new. Actually Orwell described it very well in his 1984.

People are strange: they want to support peace and the most appropriate way to do that is to bomb whoever is against peace, they say they want stop being 'mechanical beings' and they do whatever they are instructed in a massive scale without a second thought, they say that they are blind and in the same time they can see that someone is a Master of the White Lodge or in the meanwhile they do whatever this Master says just in case...they say they investigate but some things are unquestionable: GM is always right and when something seems not so 'right' it must be a test for someone (just to say one these unquestionable things), they say they want to spread the message of love and the message of Gnosis and they are doing this by separating people from their families, friends, children...they seek the spiritual and they organise events with movies and donations, food and donations, discussions and donations, or just donations (have a look in their site's front page and you'll see)...

Without noticing it you come to a point that you have lost the ability to use your common sense while you think you are doing your best in order to cultivate it. The perfect prison:

1. Make him to believe that love, peace, happiness etc really exists and it's different from what he used to think about that.
2. Make him to believe that you know the way that leads there
3. Tell him he can do it by doing X, Y, Z
4. In the meanwhile give him enough tasks to be sure that he won't have the time to do X, Y, Z properly and make some hints about not doing enough. Cut all other possible influences he might have from outside by forcing him not to attend any other organisation except yours.
5. Whenever 'by mistake' he succeeds in having some results from X, Y, Z tell him 'your work now pays off' and ask him to do much more tasks. If he is already working hard for you then exhaust him.
6. If someone - in spite of you efforts - is starting to understand more than you wished to or seems to gain his common sense back then expel him. Protect all your other obedient staff by spreading lies about him if necessary. Of course you can expel and some others that did something unacceptable just to cultivate your reliability.
7. Change the meaning of words. Make them to do X and in the same time tell them that they are doing Y. i.e.Make someone to think that he is doing the opposite thing from what you instruct him to do. Then instruct him to hate, to say lies, to abandon his family, to give his money, to be obedient without questioning. This step is very crucial for you. Make sure you confuse him.
8. Cultivate fear. Do it slowly. When you have reached the point that someone believes in you, tell him that if he goes against you he is condemned.
9. You must always talk about how sacred is the free will. In every tone and in every occasion you have to stress that. Make them to believe that what they do is absolutely due to their free will. (this must be easy after implementing 7)
10. After some years rest in peace... Your organisation will have some new leaders claiming they continue your work but you don't care anymore.

I've spent quite a few years in TGM. I contribute to this discussion for the benefit of people who might find something useful from what I've seen.

Thanks sadinoel,

I just wanted to add that we should really question how blind we were in the first place. The Gnostic movement and the Samael Aun Weor teachings go to great length to express the idea that people in general don't know what going on with reality, yet the "Gnostics" have all the answers.

For me this is a real contradiction since everyone who contributed to this development came from this world, there is no seperation. When I was really invovled in the movement I still had a lot of questions. For one I wanted to know what was so special about these "Masters" that lead them to this understanding. I was never given an answer that was good enough. Also so much Victor Gomez's life just doesn't fit with all that.

Hi everyone,

I'm an ex-member of Gnosticweb and I'd like to come forward and talk about my time in the group. And booooooooooooy do I have a lot to talk about.

Just to make something clear, I'm still on my spiritual journey in life (aren't we all? ;) ), but I wasn't going to find a fulfilling spiritual life at Gnosticweb . I read in a psychology article once that people who know both sides of an issue are mentally healthier. Since I've been on one side of the tracks, I thought that it would be time to talk to people here.

Glad to meet all of you,

Master Chief

P.S. - Jeez, where do I begin? ;)