Mark Plus seems to think that "death" by cultic groups is a joke? Its not a joke.

Anyone who studies cults and cultish groups for a period if time, can see that its a dangerous slipperly slope. It only takes one disturbed charismatic leader to literally cause the deaths of a number of people.
And as mentioned in published books, the cryonics Orgs are already walking down that road.


QUOTE from advancedatheist / Mark Plus:
"perfect cryonics patient is a healthy ten year old who can walk into the lab and lie down on the table before the procedure."
[forum.culteducation.com]

These are the kind of people one is dealing with, people who say that the "murder" of a 10 yr old child is ok for cryonics.
The comments being made are about the murder of a 10 year old child. That is not a joke.
Study something like Jonestown.


_____________________
Warning for All Cryonicists
[www.imminst.org]
[www.imminst.org]
Post#49 [www.imminst.org]
advancedatheist 31-Jan 2009, 08:15 PM

QUOTE

"The perfect cryonics patient is a healthy ten year old who can walk into the lab and lie down on the table before the procedure. The rest of us have to take our chances, especially because almost everyone who lives long enough develops circulatory problems which interfere with getting a good perfusion of cryoprotectants through the brain.


I'm just thinking theoretically, optimally, shouldn't the body be fully grown but not aging yet, around 21-25 years old, before it is cryopreserved? I know future technology would probably allow for a normal life for a 10 year old but I'm speculating on the problems associated with death and stopping body and brain growth suddenly at 10 yrs old.



According to the actuarial tables, the probability of death reaches its lowest figure for ten year olds. I've read the claim that if you could stabilize a child's physiology at that age, barring a misadventure he or she could theoretically live for several centuries in good health, kind of like the Lost Boys in the Peter Pan stories who never enter puberty.
QUOTE
_________________________________________

I am most pleased to announce that Mr. Ross has recognized the need to add Alcor to the “Group Information Archive.” This is a huge step in exposing this group worldwide. Please help by sending other links that further expose this groups questionable activities to: info@culteducation.com

To view the archive go to: [www.culteducation.com]

Anon1, great work in contacting Mr. Ross on Alcor! You are really making a difference. Keep up the good work with any Alcor news in the digital-newspapers that you can send to Rick to add to the Alcor sub-set on this board. Great job!

Melody Maxim makes a good point about the financial schemes being bandied about in the cryonics game.
This of course is mixed in with the various schemes to create a cryonics religion/church, cryonics communities, and who knows what else.

What is interesting is that people won't have to wait until the future for those millions to fly away. Once a person is dead, and their assets and money are turned over to one of these so-called cryonics "trusts", then whoever is running that trust can do what they want.

People are supposed to trust these cryonics strangers with millions, who are "financial experts"?
That would almost be funny considering what has just happened with the financial "experts". They are experts all right, experts at making your money disappear, even when you are alive and breathing down their neck.
Never mind if you are dead.

Who MIGHT a person be able to trust to watch over their remains after death?
A trusted family member. Not some cryonics stranger.

Almost all close family members will respect the wishes of their deceased family member. Why don't the cryonics companies focus on those, instead of making horror stories out of the few who don't?

Its just a ruse to try and get those who believe in cryonics to turn their estates over the the folks running the cryonics companies.
Bernie Madoff would like it.

______________________________________
[www.network54.com]...
QUOTE:
Here's the Part I Found Interesting...
June 20 2009 at 6:25 PM Melody Maxim

Response to Did anyone read Ben Best's report?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bill said that we must ultimately aim to establish banks and trust companies that are run by cryonicists. He said that we must especially identify young cryonicists who could be supported in efforts to create financial institutions. Bill believes that his own sons (age 12 and 14) may be up to the task, but it is too early to assess their competence or dedication to cryonics."

"Hey, why don't you let my kids and grandkids watch over your millions," from the guy who has so wisely invested so many millions, at companies such as SA and CCR. So far, cryonics "wealth preservation plans" look like a great setup for a future multi-million dollar theft. I'd be willing to bet someone down the line will make off with a substantial sum of money, and no one will even know it's gone.
_____________________________________

(its in the thread "psycho/social support for members") [www.network54.com]

Here's another group, called the "Final Exit Network" who also uses their own jargon, to rename assisted-suicide as "self-deliverance".
Every group always has to rename and create their own jargon.

Its a dangerous slipperly-slope when people start to support, encourage, help and facilitate people commiting suicide.
There were arrests in February of "four members in Georgia on charges of racketeering and assisted suicide".


But with cryonics, its far worse.
They are holding out promises of bodily eternal life.
And those who are "helping" and encouraging suicide, and renaming it "Deanimation" stand to make an enormous amount of money when the person dies. Perhaps millions of dollars in some cases.


____________________________________
[www.columbusdispatch.com]
Sister faults group for suicide
Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:26 AM
By Randy Ludlow

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

When Jerri Rosson walked from her home across Dutch Creek Road northeast of Athens to check on her big sister Monday morning, she found her on the couch.
Phyllis Jean Hixson, an intelligent and giving woman, was lifeless, a hood over her head, a steel tank nearby that delivered the means of her death.
Rosson believes her 69-year-old sister went before her time, apparently inhaling helium in a suicide method endorsed by a right-to-die group she'd joined.

She blames the Final Exit Network for providing the plans and support, if not an in-person presence, behind her sister's death.

Rosson said her sister never mentioned a death wish. She hadn't heard of the Final Exit Network until investigators arrived at her sister's home.
...
The Athens County sheriff's office and state investigators are digging into what role the Final Exit Network played in Hixson's suicide.

The group's attorney said that although a board member who lives near Cincinnati had contacted and counseled Hixson, the Final Exit Network did not send volunteers to assist with her "self-deliverance."
...
After the arrests in February of four members in Georgia on charges of racketeering and assisted suicide, the group stopped sending volunteers to members' homes, Rivas said. Before then, volunteers were instructed to remove all evidence, he said.
...
At the moment she found her sister, deputies were driving to Hixson's house to check on her. Hixson's name was found among Final Exit materials seized with search warrants by Georgia officials.
________________________________________

I was researching one of the bulletin boards called cryonet.org. A few years ago an Alcor cult member by the name of Thomas Donaldson was diagnosed with a brain tumor and was given only a few months to live. He petitioned the courts to allow Alcor President Carlos Mondragon to kill him without be prosecuted for murder. Obviously they were denied. They appealed the decision but lost.

What’s funny about this is that Donaldson went into remission and live many many years. It appears that Donaldson’s appeal was around 1991-92. His last post that I could verify on cryonet.org was in 2005. So in other words Donaldson lived 14 more years after he wanted his “friend” Carlos Mondragon to kill him. Well, what are friends for, right?

If you Google Donaldson’s name and situation you will find all kinds of information about this ordeal.

Christ, what a bunch of losers.

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

[www.alcor.org]

Here is a quote:

Plaintiff Thomas Donaldson wishes to die in order to live. He suffers from an incurable brain disease. He wishes to commit suicide with the assistance of plaintiff Carlos Mondragon so that his body may be cryogenically preserved. It is Donaldson's hope that sometime in the future, when a cure for his disease is found, his body may be brought back to life.

He and Mondragon appeal a judgment dismissing their action for declaratory and injunctive relief. Despite our sympathy for Donaldson, we must affirm and hold he has no constitutional right to either premortem cryogenic suspension or an assisted suicide. We also decide Mondragon has no constitutional right to aid, advise or encourage Donaldson's suicide.

thank you for that example.
These are the example the cryonics people should be trumpeting as real tales of caution.

People get a diagnosis of something, and they get desperate. They get hooked-in with some weird fringe group that promises them immortality, and they might do something like kill themselves, or have someone else kill them.
Meanwhile, their brain tumor has a remission, and they live for many years.


Also, many people get severely depressed in general, and want to commit suicide. Only about 1% of suicide attempts succeed, that is, 99% of people live through the attempt.
But what if someone gets depressed, then decides to end their life? But chooses "cryonics", and then gets "help" to get assisted suicide from some cryonics believers? Then that person has a 100% chance of dying.

Never mind the cryonics companies could make MILLIONS off the death of certain people.
Its like if the group from above, the "Final Exit Network", was making money off helping people commit suicide.


This is a recipe for a "death cult" for some fanatical hard-core believers. It really is, for some of the True Believers inside cryonics, who don't believe in death, and call it Deanimation. They think they are going into "suspension", but they are not, they are dead.


Any cryonics people who are advising, assisting, helping others in any way in "Deanimating" would be similar to the group above, the "Final Exit Network". Even just talking about it, one would think.
It does show how fanatical some of the cryonics people are, as many of them do post openly about Deanimating (assisted suicide), and getting others to help them.

What is going on in secret behind closed doors?

Some of the cryonics believers are so out of touch with reality, they even have written publically about doing a planned cryonics death on HEALTHY children (see above), which to even a regular citizen, would seem to be premeditated murder in the first degree.
You cannot kill your children anymore, that ended back in Roman times.

That is what can happen when people's beliefs get turned upside down, and death gets turned into immortal life. Its absolute madness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2009 04:14AM by The Anticult.

So the question I have is why were volunteers from Final Exit Network arrested, but as it appears no Alcor employees were arrested for the death hastening of a California? I did find a petition [www.thepetitionsite.com] for this case to be investigated, however I cannot find any other articles pertaining to this. I have to assume this cult got away with murder.


“Chicago, IL — Yesterday agents of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation arrested volunteers from Final Exit Network and charged them with assisting a suicide. The charges are related to the death of John Celmer. Mr. Celmer was a member of Final Exit Network and a case in the Network’s Exit Guide Program.”

[www.finalexitnetwork.org]


“Alcor employee injected a terminally ill AIDS patient with a paralytic drug to hasten his death, the Tribune has learned.”

[www.eastvalleytribune.com]

Its interesting there is a little chatter about Michael Jackson and cryonics.
That is actually a good example.

Already there is speculation that it may have been a overdose, possibly injected by a "doctor".
Now there has to be an investigation and autopsy to try and find out what happened.

But if the cryonics companies get their way, then a person could die, then have a "religious objection" to an autopsy. So how could anyone know if there was foul-play?
What if someone who controlled an aging person's power of attorney and estate, also gave them an "injection" that ended their life?
Without an investigation, someone could get away with manslaughter or even murder, whether to get control of an estate, or even out of a deluded belief that "killing" a person then immediately freezing them is the way to do cryonics.

So certainly, the cryonics companies agenda of getting autopsies blocked, has to be stopped.
That would stop any investigation of any suspected foul-play, or even lethally gross incompetence.



Also, there has been no news on the cryonics case of Orville Martin Richardson.
Has it been dropped due to bad PR? Is the judge still thinking?

so The Anticult, do you believe that Alcor may have a "tube" with Michael's name on it? I know Jackson has been involved in some weird shi...stuff over the years, but don't you think your suggestion might be a stretch?