Quote
rrmoderator
Looks like the Destini crowd has packed up and moved on.

Nope - still here

That comment of ThomDarc's was a bit alarmist. [forum.culteducation.com]

Though it does arise from the way in which Desteni communicates its ideas. Through a young woman who sounds as though she may not only be mentally disturbed, but repeating what she's been told by a much older person. As was pointed out, Desteni often remark on child abuse, which suggests that they want to empathize with youngsters who may have suffered abuse to get them to join the group. But criticisms leveled at Desteni here do not by any means center around that one statement made by one poster.

It doesn't make any business sense to set up a company selling educational software for basic reading skills using the same name as something which to the average person in the street would look like an outlandish cult-like organization churning out endless videos of a weird girl with a shaved head speaking on behalf of Kurt Cobain, a Mesopotamian god, Marilyn Monroe, various occultists and gurus and other dead or fictional famous personages. Especially when at the same time your business is seen to publicly support that group. Not if the customers are supposed to be responsible parents.

Then again, if in fact the whole point is to fool potential customers into thinking they can buy some useful new software to help with the kids' reading skills when they would really be made subject to an ongoing viral marketing campaign for the likes of Desteni, then the usual rules of the regular business world would not apply.

If you were running such a company, it could be rather dishonest to claim that your company had nothing to do with Desteni, or to take up the unforgiving attitude that negative assumptions of the general public are irrelevant. Then again, not at all. Not if you really were dedicated to the task of getting other people to accept Desteni on its own terms. Just the name, 'Desteni Education' signifies a way of educating people about Desteni. The website recommends that parents should have their children's vocabulary 'purified' by software made in accordance with Desteni principles.

There won't be any real customers who are not already followers of Desteni. I don't believe in the slightest that the company owners honestly intend for 'Desteni Education' to be a legitimate educational software company.

It's a front.

Have a look . . .



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2010 06:37AM by Sandman.

Quote
Sandman
That comment of ThomDarc's was a bit alarmist. [forum.culteducation.com]

Though it does arise from the way in which Desteni communicates its ideas. Through a young woman who sounds as though she may not only be mentally disturbed, but repeating what she's been told by a much older person. As was pointed out, Desteni often remark on child abuse, which suggests that they want to empathize with youngsters who may have suffered abuse to get them to join the group. But criticisms leveled at Desteni here do not by any means center around that one statement made by one poster.

It doesn't make any business sense to set up a company selling educational software for basic reading skills using the same name as something which to the average person in the street would look like an outlandish cult-like organization churning out endless videos of a weird girl with a shaved head speaking on behalf of Kurt Cobain, a Mesopotamian god, Marilyn Monroe, various occultists and gurus and other dead or fictional famous personages. Especially when at the same time your business is seen to publicly support that group. Not if the customers are supposed to be responsible parents.

Then again, if in fact the whole point is to fool potential customers into thinking they can buy some useful new software to help with the kids' reading skills when they would really be made subject to an ongoing viral marketing campaign for the likes of Desteni, then the usual rules of the regular business world would not apply.

If you were running such a company, it could be rather dishonest to claim that your company had nothing to do with Desteni, or to take up the unforgiving attitude that negative assumptions of the general public are irrelevant. Then again, not at all. Not if you really were dedicated to the task of getting other people to accept Desteni on its own terms. Just the name, 'Desteni Education' signifies a way of educating people about Desteni. The website recommends that parents should have their children's vocabulary 'purified' by software made in accordance with Desteni principles.

There won't be any real customers who are not already followers of Desteni. I don't believe in the slightest that the company owners honestly intend for 'Desteni Education' to be a legitimate educational software company.

It's a front.

Have a look . . .

@sandman

You may not believe that Desteni Education is a legitimate educational software company, but this is only an opinion on your part. If you would simply read the product descriptions on our website objectively, you will see that our software is in essence no different than any other reading program on the market. We just have a more specific program that allows children to learn vocabulary faster than normal methods like flash cards or writing the word out 50 times. You may contact us for a demonstration of the software in-person (or over skype if you prefer) with no obligation to purchase the software. Practically for us, an in-person demo would have to be done in Texas, around Houston or Austin.

I chose the name Desteni Education because I agree with the principles that Desteni in south africa stands for (and I like the name; the first name I considered was "Techno Tutor" but it was already taken, as was "tutor in a box". So i went with something that I knew would not cause any infringement issues.)

The principle of Desteni that is inline with Desteni Education is: to promote an Equal Dignified Life for everyone. The best way to accomplish this from my perspective is to give children the opportunity to become effective readers so that they can look at information for themselves and not have to rely on "experts" to interpret information for them. And then there is no limit to what they can learn and do.

Obviously we have to charge money for the software because that is how products and information move in this reality, through money exchange. In an ideal world it would be free and maybe someday it will be, but for now it is not.

Eventually we would like to see more people able to process information well, because then a lack of education would no longer be an issue for people not being able to get jobs. Ultimately the ability to read and write is what allows you to become successful in this world along with self-discipline and perseverance. But good reading skills are a fundamental pre-requisite.

I AM NOT IN ANY WAY TRYING TO DISTANCE MY COMPANY FROM DESTENI (South Africa). But the fact remains that Katherine and I are the founding and controlling partners of Desteni Education. We do not answer to anyone but our own consciences. And although, we would not be where we are today without the support that Desteni south africa has given us in terms of showing us tools to let go of the self-limitations we grew up accepting about ourselves, we have our own responsibilities that are distinct from Desteni south africa's and we take them very seriously and professionally.

The reason I came on here in the first place was to address the fact that people on the cult education forum are spreading rumors about Desteni as well as Desteni Education and without:

1 having the courage/integrity to make such claims in their own birth name to accept full responsibility for their words
and
2 without any actual documentation/proof to back up their claims.

Both Desteni and Desteni Education were founded because some people are beginning to care about this world and want everyone to have a dignified life. You guys are supposed to be on the side of right and truth not the side which actually compounds the problems of this world (through mis-information, lies, opinions, fear, reaction, etc)



--Cameron

PS, the vast majority of our customers have never heard of Desteni (the portal, Sunette, Bernard, etc) and probably never will. From our perspective it is irrelevant. We have no need for anyone to 'join Desteni' or even be aware of it. We would just like to see a world where people are not taken advantage of simply because they have an inferior education and we are doing every reasonable and legal thing in our power to make this happen.

Cameron Cope:

You said, "Obviously we have to charge money for the software because that is how products and information move in this reality, through money exchange. In an ideal world it would be free and maybe someday it will be, but for now it is not."

This reads a lot like Bernard Poolman.

"...move in this reality..."?

What other reality do you move in?

You state, "...we would not be where we are today without the support that Desteni South Africa has given us in terms of showing us tools to let go of the self-limitations we grew up accepting about ourselves..."

This reads like Destini devotees that have previously posted here, extolling its "tools" etc.

"Spreading rumors"?

No.

Just commenting and responding to the posts by Destini members and the contents of the group's Web site.

You say, "Both Desteni and Desteni Education were founded because some people are beginning to care about this world and want everyone to have a dignified life."

Right.

But as you and Bernard Poolman have stated, both Destini and Destini Education are businesses set up for profit, not nonprofits.

"...fear, reaction..."

Really?

The only so-called "fear reaction" that appears evident is the one demonstrated by Destini members attempting to swamp this thread.

And attempting to attack members of this message board personally is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

Any member may remain anonymous, which is an understandable provision and protection of this board.

There is so much in this thread to analyze, even for people experienced in this area, you almost don't know where to begin.
One suspects that is the reason for the "flooding" of this thread byDesteni members, and deliberately creating confusion. Those are well-known techniques, and they can work very well to push members doubts off-balance.

The Desteni forum was cross-posting material from this thread, and it would have to be analyzed what they are doing with the information on their threads. One would assume they are taking any criticisms of Desteni, and just globally "reframing" them, and the most rapid way to do that is Ad Homininem attacks, to globally attack the messenger, to distract from the facts.


Desteni runs the same patterns, from many of its members.
If you ask them if they believe in _______ they say no.
But in fact they do "believe" in it, in the normal way people talk.
Its like asking someone...do you believe in trees...and Deseni would say....NO, I don't believe in trees.
They take it as a FACT, not as a "belief". (more jargon).
So that is a little semantic word-trick that Bernard Poolman seems to have picked up and taught the members of Desteni.

They try to have it both ways with the "channeling", by saying they don't "believe" in it, but The Desteni Portal is a "fact", which of course it is not. Its fiction. Its imagination. Its either a hoax, or a delusion, or both.
The only way to prove "channeling" [www.skepdic.com] would be if the channel could do a controlled experiment, and discover something specific no one knows, that can be proven. That would have to be set-up with a double blind test using objective moderators of the experiment, like Scientific American magazine or something like that.
But instead, channeling, is just a bunch of platitudes, anyone can make that stuff up. In terms of Desteni, members of the public have said it all sounds like the same "writer" for each supposed channel, just vague generalizations.
So just looking at Desteni with basic common sense, Desteni would be a hoax.


Here is a serious irony.
The Desteni crowd says they don't really know where the "information" comes from in their Portal channeling. So they say to not worry about the "source" and just focus on the information?
(of course the "source" is likely primarily Bernard Poolman writing on cue-cards...they should try a teleprompter like on TV, as then the reader does not have to move their eyes to the side).

Then Desteni tries to discount criticisms on internet forums where some people are not using a surname. They have also tried that same technique on other internet forums as well.

But ironically, that in fact makes the QUALITY of the information the thing that actually counts.
So according to the very criteria set-up by Desteni, this forum is an excellent "source" of common sense information, as its all about the facts.
But if Desteni says that factual information coming from internet forums is not to be valued, the the "information" coming from Desteni is also not to be valued, as the "source" for the Desteni material is also not known, according to their own claims.

But in fact, that is just another technique, most likely from Bernard Poolman, to use to try to counteract criticism of Desteni.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 04:27AM by The Anticult.

And surprise....guess who is a WRITER and a SOFTWARE DESIGNER?
Bernard Poolman.
Talk about common sense.

[www.godlikeproductions.com]
"Bernard Poolman is a writer and software designer. He's written many article you can read on the Desteni home page."

An the brazen provable L-I-E-S coming out of Desteni members with only a few minutes research is almost unbelievable.
Here is Bernard Poolman telling his Story that he had reading and vocabulary problems, and in 2007 CREATED SOFTWARE for children.
He also actually explains how this is literally taking control of the ENTIRE vocabulary of a person as seen by the trained-eye in about 5 minutes initially in this thread.
That is exactly what he's doing, and its extremely powerful, to take the mind back to core mental concepts is literally mind-washing. Take control of the vocabulary and meaning of the words, you literally take control of the mind.
He also refers to the Emoto water scam, which is beyond quackery. [www.skepdic.com]

Bernard Poolman also says an adult has to study in his courses for 7 YEARS. 7 years.

Common sense says Bernard Poolman and some others created that software, and they know exactly what they are doing, washing the mind's mental concepts back as far as they can. That is extremely sophisticated, powerful, and extremely dangerous mind-washing. These guys know exactly what they are doing to your mind, they are trying to wipe the slate, and fill it up with Desteni concepts.
This is not a mom and pop operation, they are highly skilled in these techniques of extremely powerful indoctrination of the mind.


_________quote excerpt for education research and analysis____________
[desteni.co.za]
Bernard Poolman - I, the living word
Written by Bernard Poolman

Date : 04/07/2007

[...]
One of the tests I did was a reading test. I was an avid reader, mostly novels, encyclopedias and historical. Soon, it was apparent that I had a reading problem. Interestingly enough that that also influenced my ability to answer questions and writing letters. More interesting was that the reading problem was vocabulary specific. ...

I did a reading program and changed my major to Law. Immediately the improvement was visible. ...

I was curious though. In the expansion of my reading abilities, I noticed that I became defensive and agitated in any discussion involving vocabulary that I haven't lived and become totally.
...
In exploring this, I discovered another curious thing. The reading problems I had, was not unique – all of humanity had this. It was the basis of our fears and judgements, our afflictions and anxieties. We were living words and vocabulary according to the way we were taught and never actually really became the words we lived as an expression of ourselves.

I explored this and discovered that our words and the definition we gave it became a part of our functional DNA as it expresses into the plasticity of our cells and crystallizes as water crystals in our cells as shown by Emoto. We, as life then holographicaly express ourself through these crystals and reality becomes equal and one with the meaning we have become as the words we have accepted ourselves to be.

In finding a solution for this expression dysfunction that is affecting the whole of humanity, I found that a baby in its first few years learns differently to a child at school or an adult in this world. The baby learns at quantum speed – as if there is no time, like in heaven; and more than 70% of all behavioural and personality functions will be part of the personal development by the age of 7. Imagine the consequences where dysfunctional behaviour or personality disorders were copied in the original basic foundation phase of a child.
....
What to do. Silence. I must silence my mind to see. I must return to birth – to stop all words, all worth, all definitions and start as if I am just born, one difference though – I am going to be my own teacher. I am going to birth myself. I am unconditionally going to look at any words I choose to allow within me, as me again and start again. It must be practical, not only in this world, but beyond. I must be able to live and experience the word as myself. I must understand honesty with myself. I must understand self discipline within the process of the movement of myself, as I create myself in this world. I must stop at nothing and no-one and thus I must be able to stand as all life – meaning, that the answer must prove itself, that when all of life apply it as one, we will be equal and one and live in harmony as God. I understand clearly that such a point of God/creator existed within each one of us. The process started 22 years ago and is where it is now.

In this process I found that we have created tools that may assist us, if we choose to discipline ourselves to apply this. We developed software to quantify the process and then tested it on children. It proved immediately effective in all cases. Shortly we will release this software to assist.

In the software, we present words at the speed that the natural learning ability we all have, is the only point that we are able to assimilate this; it sidesteps consciousness which is slow, prescriptive and structured and sets one free through a process of application and quantum integration.

The process is more effective with children still curious to discover themselves in the world. Adults normally must make a dedicated choice to apply themselves for at least 7 years to recreate their former years and rebirth self in conjunction with forgiveness.

I recommend this application for all. After all, common sense dictates that if we all understand each other equally in our vocabulary, we will be able to stand as one in making decisions that is best for all and we will not allow ourselves to be enslaved by and through words that is not serving the best interest of life.

More soon.
___________________________________

Wow. Well done. If this is who really controls/designed Destini Education, contrary to what has been claimed by Destini members on this forum then this must be brought to full disclosure to prevent parents/educators from damaging their children.

The more I read of Destini, the more I realize they are a mind-controlled and INTENTIONALLY verbally-confused movement with no probable "mastermind" to take them forward after "Poolman" dies or retires to Brazil (no extradition). Like most cults of personality destini's "destiny" seems most likely to be the dustbin of history.

Until that time, they must be exposed and resisted, especially the potentially damaging Destini Education (seeminly written and designed by Poolman to mind-wash children).

Shocking stuff, The Anticult. Thanks for posting. It has the ring of truth to it and by applying old Occum's Razor, well, it is logical, too. It's all a money-making scam at the expense of their poor victimized members.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 05:34AM by Sparky.

Just to clarify a bit.
There is much more research and dissection to be done on Desteni Inc, as time permits.
This is still not a complete dissection, but is only started.

(Desteni is cross-posting much of the material from other threads into their own forums, so they can REFRAME the meanings of the postings to their own members before they read it elsewhere. Pretty clever)

One can run varied searches like:

"bernard poolman" software
"bernard poolman" writer

and see what comes up.

But its somewhat believable that Desteni Education is a "seperate" company, in terms of a corporation. But of course that literally means NOTHING in actual reality.
Every group/sect has a number of companies, and as they get bigger, they get more front-groups that often are difficult to trace back to the Mothership.

In THEORY, it could be those who are running Desteni Education were themselves scammed, and "sold" the rights to market the Desteni Software in the USA market, by re-mortaging their home for example, and giving perhaps 200K to the mothership for a license agreement, with yearly payments. That could be done in many different countries.
Many LGAT groups have "franchise agreements" with senior followers, and the franchisee gets scammed and bankrupted, as they make more money for the leader. That is common practice. The franchisee's are very high-ticket customers for the sect.

Of course, those are all private, so one can never know exactly what is happening unless the documents are leaked.
Or maybe its run in another way, again, its private for-proft corporations involved.

But certainly, common sense shows that Bernard Poolman & Co wrote that "reading" software, its the EXACT same ideas, as proven by their own writings.

Surely Bernard Poolman believes some of his own BS (Belief Systems), yet at the same time he CLEARLY understands very advanced methods of indoctrination and literal Mind-Washing. What he describes above is a 7 year systematic program to attempt COMPLETE mind-washing, that is the goal of Desteni, to literally colonize your entire mind with their reframing of mental concepts, language, vocabulary, beliefs, everything.
(of course its never complete, but that is their stated goal).

Its no accident Bernard Poolman is fascinated by Hitler and Aleister Crowley.
As well as being a psychopath and mass-murderer, Hitler and his gang of thugs were also experts in every single known tactic of MASS PERSUASION. Hitler and his braintrust were also one of the first to really use MOVIES in their brainwashing of the masses. (Leni Riefenstahl).
Hitler and his gang sold cheap radios under cost, so everyone could have a radio, and get indoctrinated by his radio stations.


Nowadays, groups are back to using VIDEO, and are using YouTube to broadcast hundreds of hours of their own indoctrination videos. That is the new frontier, and guess who has a online video course lasting for 4 YEARS?
The Desteni Structural Resonance Alignment Course [forum.culteducation.com]
The software is supposed to take 7 YEARS, according to Bernard Poolman.
That of course is absurd, but its meant to plant a seed of being a LIFER in the sect. They don't want you for a few years, they want you for LIFE, or at least more than 10-20 years. There is lots of unpaid labor to do for their for-proft companies, with the profits going to the owner.

But dissecting Desteni is a good object lesson in smaller sects starting up.

If "Desteni" Sunette Spies has been an experimental test-subject of this complex and comprehensive indoctrination Desteni mind-washing system that lasts 4-7 years, and beyond, that is beyond extremely alarming.
Young people need an extremely strong and powerful warning about what is going on, and have it explained in great detail.
And that has to include the new wave of Desteni propaganda aimed directly at those who are analyzing Desteni.

And these techniques of totalist mind-washing, must be kept totally away from children and teens, who minds, brains, and self-concepts are still forming.
Of course, those are who they are targeting for that very reason, as they say above.

Is anyone here able to show even one documented case of abuse or harm caused by Desteni or Bernard Poolman or Sunette?

An actual, documented, reviewed case of abuse.

Not speculation.

Not assumption.

Actual evidence.

???????????????

And of course, in Bernie Poolman's own (deliberate confusion-inducing) text above he says...

QUOTE: "I must stop at nothing and no-one and thus I must be able to stand as all life – meaning, that the answer must prove itself, that when all of life apply it as one, we will be equal and one and live in harmony as God. I understand clearly that such a point of God/creator existed within each one of us."

What is that?
Its another Enlightenment Salesman pitch.
As in, buy my stuff and reach "enlightenment", be one with God, and be God, the same New Age enlightenment pitch heard time and again.
They sell "The Work" "The ____", Auditing, and 1000 other things, but the end goal is always the same.

Enlightenment for Sale.

But also note the text, which is also meant as a directive for people to identify with, that he says he MUST stop at NOTHING and NO-ONE to achieve his goals.
And the absurd "goal" is to get "all of life" to apply it as one, and then we'll all live in the Desteni Universe of heaven/hell, or whatever it is.
Again, many sects have the same goal, they are going to convert the world, or 2% of the world, and then a "consciousness shift" will happen by morphogenic resonance, or Quantum Physics, or whatever.

This is simple a tactic to motivate the followers to RECRUIT RECRUIT RECRUIT now now now.
Is Desteni involved in using the 2012 scam, to put more pressure on their followers?
Search:

desteni 2012
Collapse of the Money System 2010 2011 2012 2013 • Desteni

Oh yikes...its even far worse than imagined! Bernard Poolman is trying to use the 2012 delusion to work people into a frenzy about the coming End Of The World.
Again, standard tactic...The End Is Nigh..join our sect!

Its rather convenient for Desteni that the money-system almost did collapse recently, that must have sent Bernard Poolman into hyper-drive. They are going to milk that cow until its dry.

So far, Desteni has literally done every single step in the cultic sect playbook, by the book.