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Cameron Cope
The reason I came on here in the first place was to address the fact that people on the cult education forum are spreading rumors about Desteni as well as Desteni Education and without:

1 having the courage/integrity to make such claims in their own birth name to accept full responsibility for their words
and
2 without any actual documentation/proof to back up their claims.

1. The use of a birth name does not demonstrate that a person accepts full responsibility for anything whatsoever, never mind their words. If you think people are saying irresponsible things then you should be able to address what they've written and show why it is irresponsible instead of just continuing to repeat that they are using handles.

2. The documentation and proof of points made in this discussion is the material published by Desteni itself. Anyone can look it up and see for themselves. Numerous specific references have been made.

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Cameron Cope
Both Desteni and Desteni Education were founded because some people are beginning to care about this world and want everyone to have a dignified life. You guys are supposed to be on the side of right and truth not the side which actually compounds the problems of this world (through mis-information, lies, opinions, fear, reaction, etc)

It is far less a question of who is right or wrong, and far more to do with what constitutes cultic behaviour. It so happens Desteni is a very good example.

Several contributors here have made numerous valid comments and points regarding Desteni. There is no obligation to address any of these, but the fact that Desteni Education exists founded on the principles of Desteni to sell Bernard Poolman's Vocabulary Purifier was already made plain when the link to your website was first posted here. A discussion about reading skills software is of little consequence in the matter, a sales pitch totally irrelevant, and the suggestion that the Cult Education Forum is not very nice because posters have criticized Desteni has been made several times here by Desteni members to no effect. Again because it is practically meaningless in the context of the discussion.

The reality is there is nothing anyone can say that can prove that Desteni does not show signs of cultic behaviour. All that can be done is that it can be shown why and how Desteni exhibits signs of cultic behaviour, and that happens every time someone from Desteni posts here.

Clearly, The Anticult, you are right about corporations. You, The Anticult, can start a non-profit org, license to me, Sparky, the rights to your ABC teachings for a hefty fee and you can also license to corboy XYZ teachings and to Sandman the super-secret THC technology. Each corporation is separately owned. No direct-ownership involvement or control by The Anticult's non-profit.

Sunette Spies is a sad case in the lack of decent "channelers" you can get these days! I would expect someone to ask Hitler a question (in German with an Austrian accent) and have Sunette respond in German as well and with the proper accent. Being that South Africa is the hub of this internet-cult and the recent hard-line neo-nazis that have come out of the woodwork there with the recent unfortuante murder of a fascist white farmer by his black workers, perhaps Sunette is fluent in Austria-accented German so this would be no problem.

She appears to be vague and useless as a "channeler" (like they all are, actually).
One would expect more accurate answers from someone tossing a coin. ("Heads or Tails?") She does serve one purpose I can see, and that is how to teach other wannabe bullshit artists how to NOT channel.

There has been a steady mantra of destini drones rattling off the corporate pablum spouted by their mind-controlling leadership ("Wait, Sparky, we have no leadership! We are all equal!" Guess again).

That mantra is "Anonymous! Why don't you post in your 'birth' name?"

That is silly beyond compare. This is a website that deals head-on with destructive and potentially vicious cults (like destini, for example). Only a fool would give over their real names without a mandated court order. To get the court order you would need to prove destructive and malicious comments that have damaged your bizarre on-line antics. Good luck. Last I have seen, the First Ammendment protects personal comments for the most part. (I am not yelling "FIRE" in a movie house, only suggesting people researching Destini think twice before getting mind-washed for 4-7 years and lose 4-7 years of their precious young life to a thought-control org only to need years of therapy after they "wake up" and leave the group).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 09:01AM by Sparky.

Cameron Cope, I never claimed "abuse" which can mean many things in many lexicons and I don't know how you mean this word. I can say that if, in fact , as it seems from The Anticult's postings, that Bernard Poolman is the author of your learning software, and that his likewise posted statements of "mind-washing" (my word) and getting control of children early is any indication, I myself as a single citizen of the USA, would not recommend anyone submitting their children to this learning program unless other studies by secular organizations can prove it is safe and not in any way related to Destini SA. As you have repeatedly claimed on this forum that it is not and you only "liked the name", but also seem to like "destini ideals".

I hope you are right and this is not related to destini SA. I think once again, from the evidence presented here, that I will be disappointed in people, namely, you, this time...

It looks like you may have fibbed to us here...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 09:24AM by Sparky.

A Desteni affiliate asked where are the reports of people getting hurt from Desteni?

In case he hasn't noticed, these forums can sometimes be years ahead of the newspaper reports, which occur AFTER the fact of a serious problem that makes the news.
James Arthur Ray was strongly criticized here [forum.culteducation.com] more than 2 years before anyone got killed at his cultish seminars, and while Oprah was still shilling for James Ray.
At the time Oprah and the TV networks were shilling for James Ray, their own websites had first-person reports of people getting hurt, which they ignored.

There are already many first-hand reports and criticisms of what is going on with Desteni, and what is most likely going on within Desteni.
Just looking at the facts, Desteni looks not just bad, but extremely bad.

Of course those who have been totally indoctrinated by the techniques Bernard Poolman has refined for over 22 years (as he admits in his writing above), are going to resist the REALITY of the situation.
James Ray's seminars killed numerous people, and injured many more, and he still has a few supporters who blind themselves to reality.
Even the worst sects, doing horrible things, have a core group of followers.

Someone started this Desteni thread, as they saw warning signs with Desteni.
Others have looked into it, and Desteni looks EXTREMELY BAD.
If a person buys into Bernard Poolman's system, and lets Bernard retool your mind with his "technologies", you are going to be in a serious pit of mental-quicksand for YEARS. As he has said, 4-7 YEARS, and that is only to start.
The entire Desteni system is extremely bad, and should be avoided at all costs.

Unfortunately those in the grip of the programming of sects are often the last ones to see it, as they can't see the forest for the trees.

And Desteni has serious ambitions to grow much bigger, and are targeting children and youths. So a public warning needs to get out there.

This is what Desteni "must" do, to use Bernard Poolman's rigid absolutist language, if they are going to prove the "Portal is real" as they claim, and not just vague New Age BS.

Do a double-blind test on live TV.
Put Sunette on live TV, and she starts to channel their so-called "Hitler". (of course they check to make sure she does not have an ear-piece or another device.)

Then bring in 3 independent WWII scholars who specialized in Hitler, but no one has been told who they are. (double-blind testing).
They will then ask "Desteni" Sunette Spies 25 questions each, about very private details about Hitler, and insider knowledge only Hitler could know.

Of course all questions will be in German, and the "Hitler channel" has to respond in German.


Of course, Bernard ain't gonna let that happen. But he might get the idea now to try and fake a similar interview, using a stooge "expert" in WWII, pre-rehearsed questions, and record the video themselves.

Of course, the only real experiments have to be double-blind and carried out by objective outsiders.
But they don't care about any of that stuff, The bogus "channeling" is just a way to DISTRACT and lure people into the thought-reform system designed by Bernard Poolman, to retool every word, belief and meaning in your head.
To wash the mind-slate clean, and rewrite it with Desteni Newspeak. That is what they want to do, he's admitted it.

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Sparky

Sunette Spies is a sad case in the lack of decent "channelers" you can get these days! I would expect someone to ask Hitler a question (in German with an Austrian accent) and have Sunette respond in German as well and with the proper accent. Being that South Africa is the hub of this internet-cult and the recent hard-line neo-nazis that have come out of the woodwork there with the recent unfortuante murder of a fascist white farmer by his black workers, perhaps Sunette is fluent in Austria-accented German so this would be no problem.

She appears to be vague and useless as a "channeler" (like they all are, actually).
One would expect more accurate answers from someone tossing a coin. ("Heads or Tails?") She does serve one purpose I can see, and that is how to teach other wannabe bullshit artists how to NOT channel.

Cameron Cope asked for "an actual, documented, reviewed case of abuse."

For many of the very small and relatively new groups like Destini it may be some time before someone hurt comes forward publicly.

But meanwhile reading this thread can be helpful in identifying the language, thinking and practices of the group as posted here by Destini devotees.

It is also helpful to learn that Destini and Destini Education are run as for-profit privately controlled businesses.

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rrmoderator
Cameron Cope asked for "an actual, documented, reviewed case of abuse."

For many of the very small and relatively new groups like Destini it may be some time before someone hurt comes forward publicly.

But meanwhile reading this thread can be helpful in identifying the language, thinking and practices of the group as posted here by Destini devotees.

It is also helpful to learn that Destini and Destini Education are run as for-profit privately controlled businesses.

from the FAQ at [www.culteducation.com]

Are all so-called "cults" unsafe and destructive?

No. Just because a group is "cultic" and its adherents are focused on unusual leaders and/or ideas is no reason to call them unsafe or destructive. There are groups centered on seemingly strange spiritualists, radical political concepts, the supposed power of crystals, UFO's, witchcraft or "Satanism," that may appear eccentric, but most often don't harm anyone. An unsafe or destructive group is not defined by what it believes, but by what it does. That is, the behavior that causes harm and injury to the members of the group and/or others in society.

So where is the harm that has been caused that would lead you to say that Desteni is potentially unsafe?

Cameron Cope:

For the reasons previously stated on this thread and as evidenced by Destini devotees posting here.

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Cameron Cope

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rrmoderator
Cameron Cope asked for "an actual, documented, reviewed case of abuse."

For many of the very small and relatively new groups like Destini it may be some time before someone hurt comes forward publicly.

But meanwhile reading this thread can be helpful in identifying the language, thinking and practices of the group as posted here by Destini devotees.

It is also helpful to learn that Destini and Destini Education are run as for-profit privately controlled businesses.

from the FAQ at [www.culteducation.com]

Are all so-called "cults" unsafe and destructive?

No. Just because a group is "cultic" and its adherents are focused on unusual leaders and/or ideas is no reason to call them unsafe or destructive. There are groups centered on seemingly strange spiritualists, radical political concepts, the supposed power of crystals, UFO's, witchcraft or "Satanism," that may appear eccentric, but most often don't harm anyone. An unsafe or destructive group is not defined by what it believes, but by what it does. That is, the behavior that causes harm and injury to the members of the group and/or others in society.

So where is the harm that has been caused that would lead you to say that Desteni is potentially unsafe?

If you have any integrity whatsoever and have made a claim that Desteni is potentially unsafe, I suggest that you make a statement correcting your mistake and stating that you are not saying that Desteni nor Desteni Education is unsafe.

If you have a claim of an actual documented and verified case of harm or abuse caused by Desteni or Desteni Education please give a link or information for where the case can be found. Otherwise, stop speculating.

Cameron Cope:

There is no "mistake."

Those that read this thread can decide what they think about Destini based upon the statements and information now available here.

Again, I would not recommend Destini Education and/or Destini South Africa to anyone for anything. And in my opinion Destini appears to be both "cult-like" and potentially unsafe.

You are free to disagree with that opinion if you wish. I am not "speculating," but rather expressing an opinion.

My opinion is based largely upon the responses you, Bernard Poolman and Destini devotees have posted here, along with the information made available through the Destini Web site and my professional experience.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2010 03:05AM by rrmoderator.