pps: Spot on Corboy!

Quote
superscot

It's hard to find the Eightfold path and Noble truths among all the 'worship your teacher' messages in Geshela's books...

Anyone know where i can sell them?

I think your books must be different to mine - this just goes to show how the mind does create the world! In my books, the path to liberation and enlightenment is very clear on each page.

If you want to get rid of your books, I wouldn't advise selling them as it's extremely bad karma to personally profit from Dharma - maybe you could give them to your local charity shop such as Oxfam.

Superstitious bunkum 'lineage holder'...NKT is full of that.

I heard it said recently that it took the Tibetans 1200 years to make a mess of Buddhism, and the west 40 years to do likewise. Never has this been more evident.

Try reading the Pali Canon...oops! you're not supposed to! haha!

In retrospect, I can burn them, the charity shop I work for won't take 'religious material' (quite rightly).

As for the 'bad luck ' if I sold them: Geshe Kelsang in particular , but all Tibetan lineages in general, have turned Buddhism into a business, so maybe they ought to be worried about the 'bad luck'...

Not all can afford to do this...when I discovered that some books in my possession had been written by gurus who had grievously exploited their subjects, I chose to tear the books to shreds.

I didnt want any book from my collection playing any part in some sincere person being led into a trap.

The two authors whose works I rent asunder were Chogyam Trungpa and Muktananda--both of whom turned citizens into subjects and exploited them emotionally, sexually, and financially.

Yes, Corboy, I decided to burn them rather than be the cause of some other person being sucked in....they really burnt well! So, they were good for something, (everything is good for something).

I know an elderly and disabled couple who paid £1600 (roughly $2400) for 2 weeks at Manjushri last summer...plus, there were people who live in that cottage the rest of the year paying rent...and they had to keep paying their rent for the 2 weeks of the festival and move into a tent...so, double rent coming in.

I met Chogyam before he went to America. It's just another example of how 'you cannae change the laws of physics, captain!'...alcohol does not turn into nectar just because someone says a few words over it...Tantra is open to abuse, but i came to the realisation that Tantra is nonsense anyway.

Dharma is not for sale.

Trungpa was as clever as Napoleon when it came to assessing terrain and making long term plans.

He married a girl young enough to be malleable and just old enough to be rebellious and eager to run away from home.

And he didnt pick someone working at a tea shop or in a factory; he found someone from a 'U' family.

If one is seeing all things from Buddha Nature, U and Non-U should not even matter.

Having said that, lets get back to NKT.

Have said once and will say again, a good way to assess any group whether it be a sangha, a company or a political party's behavior is this:

How are those who are sick, who occupy a vulnerable and marginal place in society treated?

Is there favoritism/exploitation directed toward those who are attractive, with youthful energy, wealthy, well funded?

Or is everyone's practice supported, no matter whether rich, or poor, plain or gorgeous, humbly obcure vs celebrity?

Is there a structure that replicates society's class structures?

Even worse, is there a replication of a feudal barony with serfs, a small circile of courtiers and a ruler accountable to no one except fear of what the public might think?

Or is it a functioning democracy where anyone who pays dues has a voice and is given respect?

Thats how to assess NKT or any other set up.

True. Never met such a set up yet though...

I haven't seen this issue raised, but maybe I missed something in all these 19 pages. I've come across several people in Buddhist forums who were in their teens, and were already practicing the Highest Yoga Tantra practices in NKT, the sexual practices. One gushed enthusiastically about how he'd only been in NKT for a year, was still a newbie, but was already doing these highest practices. He was 17. I came across a comment by an older ex-NKT member who complained that in NKT, they introduce members to the HYT practices much to early-on. I suspect this is done for the purpose of expanding the membership. Word probably gets around that NKT is about sex. I've also noticed in various videos of NKT protests against the Dalai Lama that the participants are all male.

Ole Nydahl uses sex as a draw for his cult. Is NKT a sex cult in thin disguise? What happens to women in NKT? Or are not all NKT centers the same in this regard?

It's just my opinion, but I think the NKT just put HYT out there every 2 years at the summer festival in Manjushri centre to draw crowds and make money...the sex is a side effect, but the main issue there is mass conversion and empire building. People collect these 'initiations' like Pokemon cards!
Maybe they have a chip about being isolated from mainstream Tibetan society?

It's funny how one of the basic precepts in any Buddhist lineage is 'not to misuse sex' but then even celibate ordained people are requested to quicken their step on the path by the use of HYT which is basically visualising weird deities having sex!
Maybe I'm being simplistic here, but I left Tantric Buddhism because it was too complex and distracting from the original message...when you're visualising yourself as these deities , you're not really acquainting yourself with the mind, so maybe that explains the hypocrisy in it all. People haven't really dealt with their own internal mechanics, just masked it all with tantra, so the machinations of the mind can raise their 'ugly heads' again at any time with a vengeance.