Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
JCrossik
()
Date: January 30, 2013 08:16AM
Peter,
I used the word "generally". I am a very good judge of character. I found Master Oh and Master Jin to be almost psychopaths who would eat their own young if necessary, but pretend to be sweet. Master Jin did a consultation with me to try to convince me to do Ancestor training but I chose not to because of how I found her. The others that I met seemed very sincere, and definitely not cruel and callous. I could believe that they would blackmail and threaten people to protect themselves but only Master Oh and Master Jin and they would have to be doing it without the knowledge of the others, or that would sully how they saw things.
Still they are far too intelligent to tell someone not to do chemotherapy if she needed it as that would clearly come back to hurt them in the end.
I used the word "generally". I am a very good judge of character. I found Master Oh and Master Jin to be almost psychopaths who would eat their own young if necessary, but pretend to be sweet. Master Jin did a consultation with me to try to convince me to do Ancestor training but I chose not to because of how I found her. The others that I met seemed very sincere, and definitely not cruel and callous. I could believe that they would blackmail and threaten people to protect themselves but only Master Oh and Master Jin and they would have to be doing it without the knowledge of the others, or that would sully how they saw things.
Still they are far too intelligent to tell someone not to do chemotherapy if she needed it as that would clearly come back to hurt them in the end.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
Wishwash
()
Date: January 30, 2013 11:32AM
It appears further clarification is needed since my last post on how things unfolded with Naima. I wrote in my previous post “Then to ensure the cancer did not return she had a few choices of conventional medical options but she was advised to do chemotherapy as the best option by her doctors. Unfortunately for her she consulted with Innersound masters as to what decision she should make.”
Naima was advised by her doctors that she had the options of chemotherapy or more localised radiotherapy. She was advised by her doctors that the chemotherapy had a high risk of damaging her fertility. The radiotherapy would not affect her fertility but was less effective in ensuring the cancer would not return. They advised her to do chemotherapy, but left the decision in her hands as to what risks she was willing to take.
Naima then consulted with Innersound masters, and according to her accounts and others she was led to believe that the radiotherapy together with Ancestral Healing would be sufficient to keep the cancer away, and therefore that she should not go for the chemotherapy choice. Most probably in this instance the masters truly believed that the radiotherapy would be sufficient, as the doctors had given it to Naima as a choice. It is likely in this instance they didn’t believe they were putting Naima at too much risk as they were guiding her to pick one of the possible options prescribed by her doctors- although nevertheless not the doctors’ first recommendation.
This is the route Naima decided to take- radiotherapy and lots of Ancestral Healing. Perhaps it is possible that she would have decided on her own not to do chemotherapy, even without Innersound masters’ influence, but that we will never know for sure. But it is clear they played an influencing role that was totally inappropriate- they are in no way qualified to advise in such circumstances. As you can see through what she told her family and friends she clearly did blame them for her choice not to do chemotherapy, so in her mind she recalled their influence to have been very significant.
You could ‘almost’ feel sorry for Innersound at this point, they were doing what they thought was right for her, even though they shouldn’t have been, and it didn’t work out. Yes, supporters of Innersound I can see how you are sympathetic. But then Innersound revealed their true colours by refusing to refund her for months, while the lawyers wrangled, and Naima deteriorated. They also went further as to blackmail her not to speak to the press. This is of course completely indefensible.
And to response15- “Ancestral healing is a spiritual practice not a health cure”- if this is true why are there so many people on this forum claiming they did Ancestral Healing to alleviate their health problems? Maybe if you didn’t promise health cures then you wouldn’t have so many dissatisfied customers. Maybe it would be better if you didn’t say Master Oh healed his own cancer with this method in your marketing materials- then maybe people wouldn’t be confused.
Naima was advised by her doctors that she had the options of chemotherapy or more localised radiotherapy. She was advised by her doctors that the chemotherapy had a high risk of damaging her fertility. The radiotherapy would not affect her fertility but was less effective in ensuring the cancer would not return. They advised her to do chemotherapy, but left the decision in her hands as to what risks she was willing to take.
Naima then consulted with Innersound masters, and according to her accounts and others she was led to believe that the radiotherapy together with Ancestral Healing would be sufficient to keep the cancer away, and therefore that she should not go for the chemotherapy choice. Most probably in this instance the masters truly believed that the radiotherapy would be sufficient, as the doctors had given it to Naima as a choice. It is likely in this instance they didn’t believe they were putting Naima at too much risk as they were guiding her to pick one of the possible options prescribed by her doctors- although nevertheless not the doctors’ first recommendation.
This is the route Naima decided to take- radiotherapy and lots of Ancestral Healing. Perhaps it is possible that she would have decided on her own not to do chemotherapy, even without Innersound masters’ influence, but that we will never know for sure. But it is clear they played an influencing role that was totally inappropriate- they are in no way qualified to advise in such circumstances. As you can see through what she told her family and friends she clearly did blame them for her choice not to do chemotherapy, so in her mind she recalled their influence to have been very significant.
You could ‘almost’ feel sorry for Innersound at this point, they were doing what they thought was right for her, even though they shouldn’t have been, and it didn’t work out. Yes, supporters of Innersound I can see how you are sympathetic. But then Innersound revealed their true colours by refusing to refund her for months, while the lawyers wrangled, and Naima deteriorated. They also went further as to blackmail her not to speak to the press. This is of course completely indefensible.
And to response15- “Ancestral healing is a spiritual practice not a health cure”- if this is true why are there so many people on this forum claiming they did Ancestral Healing to alleviate their health problems? Maybe if you didn’t promise health cures then you wouldn’t have so many dissatisfied customers. Maybe it would be better if you didn’t say Master Oh healed his own cancer with this method in your marketing materials- then maybe people wouldn’t be confused.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
SimonB
()
Date: January 31, 2013 04:41AM
I have no intention of offending or insulting members of this message board but I do wish that rule would apply equally to all members on here when writing about non members. Using words like “psychopath”, “ferocious wolves”, “unashamed egomania”, “unadulterated stupidity” to refer to Innersound staff is unpleasant and abusive and doesn’t help to achieve meaningful dialogue, which I believe is essential when informing the public about anything.
My passion to support Innersound on this forum is born out of the frustration felt when reading some of the things posted here as my experiences are so dramatically different to those that oppose the organisation. I think we have reached a stage now where we have to agree to disagree. I know that there are many points that you have raised but I will try to give my opinion on Innersound as best I can.
I am sorry that some of you feel violated and misled by Innersound. I expect these words won’t remedy your situation but I am very open to receive emails from those of you who wish to engage in civil conversation.
Now, getting to the points at hand:
1. Blaming Naima’s death on Innersound:
Pinning the death of someone on another person or organisation is a very serious allegation which, in my opinion, goes way beyond libel. I have a very good idea now as to how you see it. The evidence I have seen differs significantly to yours but I do not believe it is appropriate to discuss it on this forum out of respect for Naima’s grieving family.
2. Health claims and curing cancer:
Innersound has not and does not claim to cure cancer or any other disease. I say this adamantly because I understand its philosophy which I believe most authors on this forum do not. Innersound does not provide medical diagnoses or medical treatments. Qi treatments, qi classes and ancestral healing follow an Eastern system of health and wellbeing, which recognises the existence of qi energy as an important foundation for health. In line with other Eastern-born methods, like Traditional Chinese Medicine, the basic premise is that qi must flow freely and abundantly throughout the body for health to be maintained. Even acupuncture is recognised as a valid health treatment and is available on the NHS in the UK. It is a system that works very specifically on the energy meridian system. Whilst Acupuncture is a recognised treatment, I believe there are some members of the Western medical establishment who have rejected it and who also refute the existence of qi. This doesn’t surprise me as qi is unlikely to be seen at the other end of a microscope.
Acupuncture article
Eastern systems place large emphasis on the mind which is why Innersound could never guarantee a cure for any disease. Everyone is responsible for their own mind and, whilst the qi treatments and classes do help people to recharge and circulate qi, it is ultimately up to each person to use these methods to strengthen their mind and be more positive. It is, therefore, not reasonable to expect improved health by merely receiving treatments and participating in classes and ancestral healing ceremonies. Each person has to play an active role in changing habits, thoughts and behaviours. This is not a popular approach as people are notoriously resistant to change and seem these days to expect fast cures to happen to them miraculously without too much input.
Much of Innersound’s work is focused on helping people create a more positive mental attitude so that they can improve all aspects of their wellbeing. Unfortunately, this has been branded as manipulation and brainwashing. That has never been my experience. I don’t know what you make of the well documented Placebo Effect and the lesser known Nocebo Effect. From my perspective, both make perfect sense and demonstrate the mind telling the body what to do. The only problem is there is no scientific evidence of the mind, or is there?
I believe Master Oh did recover from his cancer which, from what I know was at the early stages and incomparable to that of Naima Mohamed’s. Personally I appreciate what he has learnt about cancer through his own experience; something I believe many people find valuable but then some seem not to. Everyone has a choice to either accept it or reject it.
Most of you have voiced your objections to ancestral healing and I will be happy to post more on this in future.
I can appreciate the good intentions of Rick Ross, Peter Daley and Innersoundwatch as people trying their best to stop manipulative and destructive organisations from operating. This is a valuable public service. But, I cannot accept the posting of abusive comments and slander and facts that aren’t substantiated. Please recognise that, as you have probably not tried or tested Innersound’s methods for yourselves, first-hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed.
Thank you for reading.
Simon.
My passion to support Innersound on this forum is born out of the frustration felt when reading some of the things posted here as my experiences are so dramatically different to those that oppose the organisation. I think we have reached a stage now where we have to agree to disagree. I know that there are many points that you have raised but I will try to give my opinion on Innersound as best I can.
I am sorry that some of you feel violated and misled by Innersound. I expect these words won’t remedy your situation but I am very open to receive emails from those of you who wish to engage in civil conversation.
Now, getting to the points at hand:
1. Blaming Naima’s death on Innersound:
Pinning the death of someone on another person or organisation is a very serious allegation which, in my opinion, goes way beyond libel. I have a very good idea now as to how you see it. The evidence I have seen differs significantly to yours but I do not believe it is appropriate to discuss it on this forum out of respect for Naima’s grieving family.
2. Health claims and curing cancer:
Innersound has not and does not claim to cure cancer or any other disease. I say this adamantly because I understand its philosophy which I believe most authors on this forum do not. Innersound does not provide medical diagnoses or medical treatments. Qi treatments, qi classes and ancestral healing follow an Eastern system of health and wellbeing, which recognises the existence of qi energy as an important foundation for health. In line with other Eastern-born methods, like Traditional Chinese Medicine, the basic premise is that qi must flow freely and abundantly throughout the body for health to be maintained. Even acupuncture is recognised as a valid health treatment and is available on the NHS in the UK. It is a system that works very specifically on the energy meridian system. Whilst Acupuncture is a recognised treatment, I believe there are some members of the Western medical establishment who have rejected it and who also refute the existence of qi. This doesn’t surprise me as qi is unlikely to be seen at the other end of a microscope.
Acupuncture article
Eastern systems place large emphasis on the mind which is why Innersound could never guarantee a cure for any disease. Everyone is responsible for their own mind and, whilst the qi treatments and classes do help people to recharge and circulate qi, it is ultimately up to each person to use these methods to strengthen their mind and be more positive. It is, therefore, not reasonable to expect improved health by merely receiving treatments and participating in classes and ancestral healing ceremonies. Each person has to play an active role in changing habits, thoughts and behaviours. This is not a popular approach as people are notoriously resistant to change and seem these days to expect fast cures to happen to them miraculously without too much input.
Much of Innersound’s work is focused on helping people create a more positive mental attitude so that they can improve all aspects of their wellbeing. Unfortunately, this has been branded as manipulation and brainwashing. That has never been my experience. I don’t know what you make of the well documented Placebo Effect and the lesser known Nocebo Effect. From my perspective, both make perfect sense and demonstrate the mind telling the body what to do. The only problem is there is no scientific evidence of the mind, or is there?
I believe Master Oh did recover from his cancer which, from what I know was at the early stages and incomparable to that of Naima Mohamed’s. Personally I appreciate what he has learnt about cancer through his own experience; something I believe many people find valuable but then some seem not to. Everyone has a choice to either accept it or reject it.
Most of you have voiced your objections to ancestral healing and I will be happy to post more on this in future.
I can appreciate the good intentions of Rick Ross, Peter Daley and Innersoundwatch as people trying their best to stop manipulative and destructive organisations from operating. This is a valuable public service. But, I cannot accept the posting of abusive comments and slander and facts that aren’t substantiated. Please recognise that, as you have probably not tried or tested Innersound’s methods for yourselves, first-hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed.
Thank you for reading.
Simon.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: January 31, 2013 05:14AM
SimonB:
I agree that using words like “psychopath”, “ferocious wolves”, “unashamed egomania”, is over the top.
Everyone posting here should refrain from name calling and personal attacks.
In my opinion Innersound/Qi Health fits the criteria used to define a destructive cult.
See [www.culteducation.com]
It seems to me that Innersound is essentially a personality-driven and defined group, totalitarian in nature, and that the training, group dynamics and lifestyle led by members living within the London building, appears to correspond to a thought reform program. I also believe that the group exploits people financially and for what can be seen as free labor.
The supposed "healing" that that somehow transpires at Innersound now also known as Qi Health, apparently is largely based upon ancestor training, which is essentially predicated upon faith, rather than anything scientific. You have offered no scientific study that specifically supports Innersound and/or Master Oh by name. The general article you linked to about acupuncture doesn't mention either Innersound, Ki Health, Qi Health or Master Oh.
It isn't necessary to drive drunk, smoke cigarettes or join a "cult" to know it's probably not a good idea. Consumers make many choices daily based upon published research and common sense. There is no specifically relevant research that identifies Innersound or Qi Health as a good choice for "healing". Instead, based upon complaints, bad press and lawyers threatening people that criticize the group (much like Scientology's lawyers), it seems to me that the evidence points to Innersound being a a rather questionable choice.
But your are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't appear to be supported by anything other than subjective experience and anecdotal evidence.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 05:23AM by rrmoderator.
I agree that using words like “psychopath”, “ferocious wolves”, “unashamed egomania”, is over the top.
Everyone posting here should refrain from name calling and personal attacks.
In my opinion Innersound/Qi Health fits the criteria used to define a destructive cult.
See [www.culteducation.com]
It seems to me that Innersound is essentially a personality-driven and defined group, totalitarian in nature, and that the training, group dynamics and lifestyle led by members living within the London building, appears to correspond to a thought reform program. I also believe that the group exploits people financially and for what can be seen as free labor.
The supposed "healing" that that somehow transpires at Innersound now also known as Qi Health, apparently is largely based upon ancestor training, which is essentially predicated upon faith, rather than anything scientific. You have offered no scientific study that specifically supports Innersound and/or Master Oh by name. The general article you linked to about acupuncture doesn't mention either Innersound, Ki Health, Qi Health or Master Oh.
It isn't necessary to drive drunk, smoke cigarettes or join a "cult" to know it's probably not a good idea. Consumers make many choices daily based upon published research and common sense. There is no specifically relevant research that identifies Innersound or Qi Health as a good choice for "healing". Instead, based upon complaints, bad press and lawyers threatening people that criticize the group (much like Scientology's lawyers), it seems to me that the evidence points to Innersound being a a rather questionable choice.
But your are entitled to your opinion. It just doesn't appear to be supported by anything other than subjective experience and anecdotal evidence.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 05:23AM by rrmoderator.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
Peter Daley
()
Date: January 31, 2013 06:25AM
Quote
SimonB
I am sorry that some of you feel violated and misled by Innersound. I expect these words won’t remedy your situation but I am very open to receive emails from those of you who wish to engage in civil conversation.
Thanks Simon. Appreciate the sentiment. At the moment I'd rather ask questions where they can seen and perhaps answered by others. I may email you in the future, and likewise you're welcome to email me anytime.
Quote
SimonB
1. Blaming Naima’s death on Innersound:
Pinning the death of someone on another person or organisation is a very serious allegation which, in my opinion, goes way beyond libel. I have a very good idea now as to how you see it. The evidence I have seen differs significantly to yours but I do not believe it is appropriate to discuss it on this forum out of respect for Naima’s grieving family.
Would you mind commenting on the amount paid (16,000 pounds) I think it was. Do you think that amount was a fair price for the treatments she received?
Quote
SimonB
2. Health claims and curing cancer:
Innersound has not and does not claim to cure cancer or any other disease. I say this adamantly because I understand its philosophy which I believe most authors on this forum do not. Innersound does not provide medical diagnoses or medical treatments.
Well half of it does. If you look at the first page of this thread and at a post by KiWatch (I think that was me), you 'll see this quote from their landlords:
Quote
We have let this entire refurbished office building of 13,200 square feet on behalf of the Howard de Walden Estate.
The tenant, KiHealth International, has successfully applied for a change of use for half the space to medical use. The building is their new European Headquarters. The
headline rent is £58.71 per square foot.
The link looks to be dead, but I have the original PDF, here's a screenshot:
That was in 2009. Has anything changed since then?
Quote
SimonB
It is a system that works very specifically on the energy meridian system. Whilst Acupuncture is a recognised treatment, I believe there are some members of the Western medical establishment who have rejected it and who also refute the existence of qi. This doesn’t surprise me as qi is unlikely to be seen at the other end of a microscope.
That's not the issue at all. And really this isn't about Ki or Qi at all. The treatments are simply the honey to attract the flies, the bait to attract the fish. It's like the Moonies justifying their scams by referring to the Bible. Of more relevance is the prices charge. And where that money ends up. Which according to complaints in the earlier 2008 article, is in the pockets of a certain Korean woman who claims to be God and who served time for fraud.
The treatments were developed by that Korean couple described earlier, the leaders of that doomsday cult that were jailed for fraud. Their cult also has a habit of changing names. It's currently called Jungshim. And despite threats to sue me for suggesting they're related and denials by Innersound of any connection made to the press, a cursory look at websites operated by Jungshim and Innersound show the same people wearing the same uniforms bearing the same logos. Same people. Same uniforms. Same logos.
I won't ask you to explain that because I don't think it's possible. You're welcome to try though.
Instead, were you aware the treatments were developed by those convicted criminals?
And several years ago, Ki Health offered free treatments to the London Met Police, who repaid by appearing in a promotional video for Ki Health. Commander Simon Foy, Head of Homicide and Serious Crimes is in it. Do Innersound still use that video as part of their PR? I know they used to show recruits. I'm curious if it's still shown.
Quote
Please recognise that, as you have probably not tried or tested Innersound’s methods for yourselves, first-hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed.
Well I did ask where I could experience a treatment in Korea^^.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2013 06:54AM by Peter Daley.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
Peter Daley
()
Date: January 31, 2013 06:55AM
Quote
Peter DaleyQuote
SimonB
I am sorry that some of you feel violated and misled by Innersound. I expect these words won’t remedy your situation but I am very open to receive emails from those of you who wish to engage in civil conversation.
Thanks Simon. Appreciate the sentiment. At the moment I'd rather ask questions where they can seen and perhaps answered by others. I may email you in the future, and likewise you're welcome to email me anytime.Quote
SimonB
1. Blaming Naima’s death on Innersound:
Pinning the death of someone on another person or organisation is a very serious allegation which, in my opinion, goes way beyond libel. I have a very good idea now as to how you see it. The evidence I have seen differs significantly to yours but I do not believe it is appropriate to discuss it on this forum out of respect for Naima’s grieving family.
Would you mind commenting on the amount paid (16,000 pounds) I think it was. Do you think that amount was a fair price for the treatments she received.Quote
SimonB
2. Health claims and curing cancer:
Innersound has not and does not claim to cure cancer or any other disease. I say this adamantly because I understand its philosophy which I believe most authors on this forum do not. Innersound does not provide medical diagnoses or medical treatments.
Well half of it does. If you look at the first page of this thread and at a post by KiWatch (I think that was me), you 'll see this quote from their landlords:Quote
We have let this entire refurbished office building of 13,200 square feet on behalf of the Howard de Walden Estate.
The tenant, KiHealth International, has successfully applied for a change of use for half the space to medical use. The building is their new European Headquarters. The
headline rent is £58.71 per square foot.
The link looks to be dead, but I have the original PDF, here's a screenshot:
That was in 2009. Has anything changed since then?Quote
SimonB
It is a system that works very specifically on the energy meridian system. Whilst Acupuncture is a recognised treatment, I believe there are some members of the Western medical establishment who have rejected it and who also refute the existence of qi. This doesn’t surprise me as qi is unlikely to be seen at the other end of a microscope.
That's not the issue at all. And really this isn't about Ki or Qi at all. The treatments are simply the honey to attract the flies, the bait to attract the fish. It's like the Moonies justifying their scams by referring to the Bible. Of more relevance is the prices charge. And where that money ends up. Which according to complaints in the earlier 2008 article, is in the pockets of a certain Korean woman who claims to be God and who served time for fraud.
The treatments were developed by that Korean couple described earlier, the leaders of that doomsday cult that were jailed for fraud. Their cult also has a habit of changing names. It's currently called Jungshim. And despite threats to sue me for suggesting they're related and denials by Innersound of any connection made to the press, a cursory look at websites operated by Jungshim and Innersound show the same people wearing the same uniforms bearing the same logos. Same people. Same uniforms. Same logos.
I won't ask you to explain that because I don't think it's possible. You're welcome to try though.
Instead, were you aware the treatments were developed by those convicted criminals?
And several years ago, Ki Health offered free treatments to the London Met Police, who repaid by appearing in a promotional video for Ki Health. Commander Simon Foy, Head of Homicide and Serious Crimes is in it. Do Innersound still use that video as part of their PR? I know they used to show recruits. I'm curious if it's still shown.Quote
Please recognise that, as you have probably not tried or tested Innersound’s methods for yourselves, first-hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed.
Well I did ask where I could experience a treatment in Korea^^.
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
Innersoundwatch
()
Date: January 31, 2013 07:07AM
SimonB, response15, and the Scientist- you are all clearly masters so why not just say so and make it upfront.
SimonB,
It is not believable to say you won't disclose the evidence you have "out of respect for Naima's family", when you have already called the article which is based on interviews from the family, "a lie". Then your fellow master has gone on to disclose the "lipsouction" and many other private details about Naima's situation, that were hardly necessary. Also it is quite reasonable to assume that the trainees that have posted were directed to by you, because why would they be following this forum- they could only have been alerted to what has been posted by masters. These trainees thus have also tried to contradict Naima, at your suggestion. You previosuly asked for "hard evidence", and now you resort to saying you have the truth, but out of respect you will not reveal it- this simply is not believable. You clearly have simply tried and failed to respond and so now are trying to shield yourself.
As for the libel and slander claims you are throwing out- I assume you are aware that it is not libel if it is true. If it really is libel in your eyes are you going to go after Naima's family as they are the most identifiable sources of the claims? Who are you accusing of libel- as people on this forum are simply repeating claims already publicly published?
As for health claims, why are very sick people giving you so much money if you do not make health claims? Do you expect people to believe that very sick people are parting with 10's of thousands of Pounds for spiritual reasons to help their dead Ancestors? Sick people are desperate for cures to their conditions- they spend their money and efforts on healing themselves. No one here has a problem with Accupuncture- the reason why is that it doesn't cost 10's of thousands of Pounds. For the submission to the Charity Comission we have multiple testimonies of people who say health claims are made about Ancestral Healing. Who is going to believe you over them? Are you claiming a conspiracy to destroy your organisation? if so why would such a thing arise? You might also be forgetting that your Korean headquarters have already lost court cases (civil ones,on top of the criminal fraud) for making false health claims. I dare you to say you are not connected to them- go ahead make Peter Daley's day.
And now dum dum dum (drumroll), you seem to be fully unaware that you have had leaks from inside your organisation. We have email evidence proving that Naima was prescribed a herbal remedy by the grandmaster in Korea and told that she would see improvements in her test results at the hospital from taking this herbal remedy. This prescrpition was passed on from the Grandmaster through Master Oh.
And on top of that you might be forgetting that you had a former female master trainee that attended your Sunday nights master's education led by Master Oh at the time the situation with Naima was playing out- she has given her account of what Master Oh said about Naima.
So, while we can't blame you for trying, you are a master so obviously are going to defend your orgnisation no matter what, your attemps are futile, you are 'dead and buried'
SimonB,
It is not believable to say you won't disclose the evidence you have "out of respect for Naima's family", when you have already called the article which is based on interviews from the family, "a lie". Then your fellow master has gone on to disclose the "lipsouction" and many other private details about Naima's situation, that were hardly necessary. Also it is quite reasonable to assume that the trainees that have posted were directed to by you, because why would they be following this forum- they could only have been alerted to what has been posted by masters. These trainees thus have also tried to contradict Naima, at your suggestion. You previosuly asked for "hard evidence", and now you resort to saying you have the truth, but out of respect you will not reveal it- this simply is not believable. You clearly have simply tried and failed to respond and so now are trying to shield yourself.
As for the libel and slander claims you are throwing out- I assume you are aware that it is not libel if it is true. If it really is libel in your eyes are you going to go after Naima's family as they are the most identifiable sources of the claims? Who are you accusing of libel- as people on this forum are simply repeating claims already publicly published?
As for health claims, why are very sick people giving you so much money if you do not make health claims? Do you expect people to believe that very sick people are parting with 10's of thousands of Pounds for spiritual reasons to help their dead Ancestors? Sick people are desperate for cures to their conditions- they spend their money and efforts on healing themselves. No one here has a problem with Accupuncture- the reason why is that it doesn't cost 10's of thousands of Pounds. For the submission to the Charity Comission we have multiple testimonies of people who say health claims are made about Ancestral Healing. Who is going to believe you over them? Are you claiming a conspiracy to destroy your organisation? if so why would such a thing arise? You might also be forgetting that your Korean headquarters have already lost court cases (civil ones,on top of the criminal fraud) for making false health claims. I dare you to say you are not connected to them- go ahead make Peter Daley's day.
And now dum dum dum (drumroll), you seem to be fully unaware that you have had leaks from inside your organisation. We have email evidence proving that Naima was prescribed a herbal remedy by the grandmaster in Korea and told that she would see improvements in her test results at the hospital from taking this herbal remedy. This prescrpition was passed on from the Grandmaster through Master Oh.
And on top of that you might be forgetting that you had a former female master trainee that attended your Sunday nights master's education led by Master Oh at the time the situation with Naima was playing out- she has given her account of what Master Oh said about Naima.
So, while we can't blame you for trying, you are a master so obviously are going to defend your orgnisation no matter what, your attemps are futile, you are 'dead and buried'
Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by:
Innersoundwatch
()
Date: January 31, 2013 07:18AM
Oh I almost forgot. Let's quote what Sue Hutchins,one of your masters, said in a published interview- "it’s going to take time – but it really does seem to be curing my ME [MYALGIC ENCEPHALOPATHY]"
Re: Is "Ki Health [aka Innersound, Qi Wellness...]run by Criminals"?
Posted by:
JCrossik
()
Date: January 31, 2013 08:28AM
Simon B,
Are you a master? If so I would guess Master Nam, that is who you sound like. I thought you were one of the nice ones as I posted bove, but now I am not so sure about any of you. Whose fault is it if we do not understand your philosophy?
If someone comes into your centre with cancer like myself, and they are told their cancer is caused by energy blockages due to their ancestors, whom likely had cancer themselves. And then if we are told that the only way to clear these blockages is to spend £5k to do Ancestor Healing on these ancestors so that they can clear these issues that they didn't clear during their lives. And then we are told Master Oh and others have healed their cancer in this way, but "you can't make any promises or guarantees because everyone is different". What do you expect we are going to end up thinking- we end up thinking there is a hope this Ancestor Healing will heal our cancer because it will clear the energy blockage causing the cancer.
As I said above, I decided not to go for it because I found Master Jin to be untrustworthy and feigning sympathy, but ?i am quite sure many others were placed in a situaion just like me and gave you the £5k. Send me a private message if you do not want to make it public, explaining to me what I misunderstood, because right now I feel I need to join the others and write to the Charity Commission too.
Are you a master? If so I would guess Master Nam, that is who you sound like. I thought you were one of the nice ones as I posted bove, but now I am not so sure about any of you. Whose fault is it if we do not understand your philosophy?
If someone comes into your centre with cancer like myself, and they are told their cancer is caused by energy blockages due to their ancestors, whom likely had cancer themselves. And then if we are told that the only way to clear these blockages is to spend £5k to do Ancestor Healing on these ancestors so that they can clear these issues that they didn't clear during their lives. And then we are told Master Oh and others have healed their cancer in this way, but "you can't make any promises or guarantees because everyone is different". What do you expect we are going to end up thinking- we end up thinking there is a hope this Ancestor Healing will heal our cancer because it will clear the energy blockage causing the cancer.
As I said above, I decided not to go for it because I found Master Jin to be untrustworthy and feigning sympathy, but ?i am quite sure many others were placed in a situaion just like me and gave you the £5k. Send me a private message if you do not want to make it public, explaining to me what I misunderstood, because right now I feel I need to join the others and write to the Charity Commission too.
Re: Is "Ki Health [aka Innersound, Qi Wellness...]run by Criminals"?
Posted by:
Wishwash
()
Date: January 31, 2013 10:09AM
Innersound are you serious? "Please recognise that, as you have probably not tried or tested Innersound’s methods for yourselves, first-hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed."- you know full well that the allegations sent to your organisation by David Harrison include multiple complaints by named former clients who have had first hand experience of your treatments and Ancestor Healing. Don't act like no-one here knows what they are talking about- we do not have to try it ourselves- I know cocaine would be bad for me and drain my bank account- even though there are people telling me to give it a try as it will make me feel good.
Maybe you should learn to speak Korean so you can actually understand what you grandmaster says and what your doctrine is because 'first- hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed'.
Maybe you should learn to speak Korean so you can actually understand what you grandmaster says and what your doctrine is because 'first- hand experience is required before opinions and judgements can be passed'.
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