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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 25, 2013 07:39PM

Let's try to reduce the name calling.

One post called someone "deluded", another said "feeble and grossly ignorant".

Remember that personal insults are against the rules, which you agreed to before posting here.

If you wish to discuss the topic of this thread please do so without attacking members of the message board on a personal basis.

FYI see [www.culteducation.com]

The Ross Institute, which operates this message board, is an educational nonprofit and institutional member of the New Jersey Library Association. The related Web site archives, which includes CultNews.com, contain thousands of articles about hundreds of groups, leaders and topics. There is actually very little information about Ki Health, which has a small section within the database and an article recently written by Linda Rogers.

See [www.cultnews.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

The Ross Institute has archived information about controversial groups and movements since 1996, some of these groups or movements have been called "cults".

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: anhonestwoman ()
Date: January 25, 2013 08:44PM

No, I’m not a master – just someone who has recovered their health and who has no doubt in the integrity of master Oh, all the masters and the work they do.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 25, 2013 09:03PM

anhonestwoman:

You say that you "recovered [your] health."

Much of the controversy surrounding Ki Health, Innersound now known as Qi Health, seems to be health claims.

Has Qi Health proven conclusively with scientific evidence that their practice has healed anyone?

How was this specifically proven?

Is there a peer-reviewed scientific study, which was published in credible journal, about the cures acheived by Qi Health?

Please cite objective evidence to demonstrate that the claims made by Qi Health supporters are true and have been proven.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: Innersoundwatch ()
Date: January 26, 2013 05:31AM

SimonB,

Fact 1: There is police an investigation into Innersound's involvement in Naima's death:

To confirm this you can contact
T/DC Luiza DRABIK
CID Team 8, Charing Cross Police Station
1 Agar Street, London WC2N4JP
Tel 02073218296
Fax 02073217747

Fact 2: Oh Soon Tak (Master Oh) was imprisoned in the US for Immigration Fraud. This can be confirmed by contacting:
US Immigration and Customs Enforcment on Tel: +1 (866) 347-2423

Fact 3: Oh Soon Tak obtained his British Visa by Marrying Emilie Westin (Master Jin) even though he simultaneously was married to Kim Sung Hee (Master Kim).
There is an investigation into this by the UK Border agency. They can be contacted on 0800 595 000

Fact 4: Naima had her request for a refund declined prior to having to engage lawyers to get the refund. This is obvious logic, do you think she didn't ask for arefund before going to lawyers?

Fact 5:There is an investigation into Innersound illegally living on the premises at 25 Queen Anne Street. This can be confirmed with Westminister Council Planning Enforcement
Tel:020 7641 2513

Fact 6: Complaints have been made to the Charity Comission in application for Innersound's charitable status to be revoked. They already previously launched an investigation into Ki Health, and will soon launch another into Innersound.
Tel: 0845 300 0218

I hope that is helpful, evidence-based and factual enough for you.

Anhonestwoman,

Can you verify with medical documentation that you have had a medical condition cured by Innersound. Or is this your subjective evaluation. Innersound has never provided evidence as to 1 cure. They just have claimed thousands miraculous cures in Japan and Paraguay, even though they have not submitted even 1 case for medical verification. Even if you want to play the subjective claims game, for every 1 person you provide that subjectively says their health is better, I will provide 5 that say they paid thousand and had no benefit.

The statement about the army inventing brainwashing, was in reference to anhonestwoman's claim that Naima couldn't be manipulated by Innersound becuase she had a strong mind as she was an army officer. That is the whole point of brainwashing, the army invented it to control strong minds, not weak minds. And a whole country was brainwashed by Hitler- Nazi Germany, and especially Hitler's army.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2013 05:33AM by Innersoundwatch.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: sunshine22 ()
Date: January 26, 2013 04:23PM

I would like to respond to the recent posting on this site. I go to the Innersound centre for the wonderful Qi energy treatments and to take part in the Tai Chi style Qi classes whenever I have time. I never dreamed I would be writing on a ‘Cult’ website but, after reading this untrue article on cult news, I feel people have a right to hear the truth. Sometimes we have to speak out against (what I consider to be) the blatant negativity, aggression, cynicism and fear that are a feature of some of the posts that I have read here.

I met the lady in question, Naima, at the Innersound centre. We chatted for a long time one evening and she told me of her situation. She had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and was sure she was going to get better. She had read many articles on the web about people who had healed from cancer through special diets and alternative treatments and therapies. She particularly focused on the story of a doctor’s wife who had gone into remission from cancer because of a particular diet and she was going to follow this. When I inquired as to whether she was undergoing chemotherapy, I was taken aback by how adamantly she refused to consider it. My concern led me to tell her about a friend who had had a very aggressive form of cancer and that I believed chemotherapy had saved her life. Naima was not impressed. She said she did not want chemotherapy and that, if she had it, she wouldn’t be able to have children. I tried to advise her otherwise but she was very strong minded and not willing to listen.

A few days later, after class, I saw Naima talking to one of the masters. I watched this master encouraging her to see a medical consultant and to undergo chemotherapy to help save her life. Naima refused to listen, repeating that she was going to find a cure herself. It was difficult to watch and hear her talking like this at such a crucial time in her life. Over the next few weeks, I watched the great care and concern that all the masters, including Master Oh, had for Naima. They all believed that she should be under the care of a medical consultant and receive conventional treatment.

I spoke to Naima briefly before she left the centre. She was angry and frustrated that, despite the strict diet she was following, the various complementary therapies she was receiving, the very expensive equipment she had purchased to warm her bones and all the stories of hope she had come across on the web, she was not getting better. She refused to undergo the one thing that might have saved her life.

It is unfortunate to have to give details of what Naima went through but, in this instance, I feel I have little choice when such untrue things are being written.

It defies belief that stories have been written such as on this site, which are a pure fabrication of the truth. I understand that, out of anger and frustration, Naima herself may have turned against Innersound as well as other individuals who tried to help her. This was a young woman facing the end of her life – there is probably nothing more frightening.

What I fail to understand is why individuals would write on websites such as this or feed the press with information when they really are not aware of the facts. I spoke to Naima at length, as well as the masters and other people attending the centre. I am very clear about the facts.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: Wishwash ()
Date: January 26, 2013 05:40PM

Those defending Innersound are throwing in a sprinkling of truth mixed in with a good serving of distortion, so herewith let's clarify exactly what went down. If you understand the timeline it will all make sense.

Initially Naima went to Innersound before she developed any cancer, and began having treatments. A few months later she developed cancer (those are some good treatments). At that point she had conventional medical treatment to remove the cancer from her body, and she complemented this with going to Innersound and other natural treatments and diet.

Then to ensure the cancer did not return she had a a few choices of conventional medical options but she was advised to do chemotherapy as the best option by her doctors. Unfortunately for her she consulted with Innersound masters as to what decision she should make. Innersound masters told her to avoid chemotherapy as is descibed in the Cultnews article. They advised that Ancestral healing etc would keep the cancer away. So Naima went on a years spree of doing as much Ancestral healing and training classes as possible, giving all her money to Innersound and then even borrowing on top of that as is described in the article.

She then did go on a skiing trip as is described in one of the posts above, and when she returned from that trip and saw her doctors, they found the cancer had returned and spread. She still believed in Innersound and continued to go for treatments and classes. At this point Master Oh told his masters and Naima that it was too late for the Qi alone to help her she needed chemo and conventional treatment. So this is the sprinkling of truth- they did tell her to have chemo, at this point. But it was too late because she had already been convinced that chemo was bad for her, and anyway the doctors said even with chemo she could expect to have about 2 years to live. That is why she was so adamant against chemo at this point, and that is how the conversations with Sunshine22 above happened.

She started looking for alternative options and set her heart on a clinic in the US. At this point she still was being "assisted and supported" by the masters somewhat as Sunshine22 describes. But the clinic in the US cost tens of thousands of Dollars and she had given all of her life savings and then some to Innersound, so she could not afford the Clinic in the US. So Naima went to Innersound and told them that she did Ancestral Training only to keep the cancer away, that was her only reason for doing it, and the masters had told her it would work but it had not, so she wanted a refund to use the money to save her life and go the clinic in the US.

But Innersound refused. And that is when Naima turned on them and went to lawyers and the press. And they even tried to blackmail her not to go to the press. Innersound's lawyers labelled the payment as compassionate, because they couldn't accept liability as that would get them in a lot of legal trouble. If they truly had compassion they would have obviosuly given her the money when she asked, not strung things out for months with the lawyers, while Naima's condition deteriorated.

So you see it is somewhat true what the defenders of Innersound have said, but the Cultnews article is also completely true- you just have to understand what happened when in the timeline. Innersound beleives in conventional medicine, but only sometimes. You see they are a little confused, because medicine and doctors used to be totally offlimits, until the grandmaster needed an operation becuase she couldn't walk after breaking her back. and so know they aren't quite sure what their doctrine is, and when medcine is Ok, and when Qi is enough. And this confusion of the few months when they told Naima not to have chemo, before they told her to have it probably cost her her life.

That is truth.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2013 05:44PM by Wishwash.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: anhonestman ()
Date: January 26, 2013 10:50PM

Quote
anhonestwoman

How is it that individuals, such as those on this site, can be allowed to write about people and situations that they clearly know nothing/very little about?

I think the more pressing matter is how is it that individuals are able to take advantage of the very ill and offer them false hope while defrauding them which is exactly what Master Oh and his cronies have done. It takes a truly callous individual with a near brutal personality who can happily take advantage of a dying woman just to con her out of her money for a mountain retreat in Korea.

Clearly Naima felt that she had been cheated and had expressed that to her family and if this was a lie then InnerSound / Qi Wellness / Master Oh would be suing them for libel rather than you and SimonB posting on this forum. Clearly there are people from InnerSound / Qi Wellness that devote a lot of time to reading this thread. For someone new to Innersound/Qi Wellness reading the truth about the organization would plunge them into a crisis which indicates that anhonestwoman (cloning my name too tut tut) and SimonB are established members of Innersound / Qi Wellness.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: SimonB ()
Date: January 27, 2013 12:46AM

Innersoundwatch:

I appreciate your attempt, but a pending inquiry brought by a disgruntled party is simply evidence of a disgruntled party lodging a complaint, nothing more and nothing less. It does NOT constitute evidence of guilt or any wrong doing.

I would prefer to hear the judgement of a recognised and impartial authority rather than those of the self-styled judges on this kangaroo court.

Do you agree Mr Moderator?

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: response15 ()
Date: January 27, 2013 01:40AM

Wishwash:

Your post is an inaccurate description of events, which I will correct below.

Naima Mohamed came to Innersound in 2009 for Qi treatments for shoulder pain and pain following liposuction. In late 2010, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Her medical team advised her to have chemotherapy as the best option for her long-term health, but she decided against it fearing that it would reduce her chances of having a baby and opted instead for radiotherapy. Innersound advised her to follow the advice of her medical team. At no time did Innersound advise her not to have chemotherapy.

Following surgery and radiotherapy, she wished to pursue natural therapies and dietary solutions, as opposed to conventional medicine, to support her return to full health and to work as an army officer. She was upfront about this with Qi Masters, Qi trainees and her friends. Innersound advised that she remain under the care of a medical practitioner.

It is important and relevant to point out that Innersound has many clients who have (or have had) cancer and undergo chemotherapy. Innersound is not a medical service nor does it purport to be. Innersound encourages individuals with chronic or serious health conditions to remain under the care of a medical practitioner and take informed advice. The individual’s decision is respected. Naima Mohamed was no different.

To commence Innersound therapies, including ancestral healing, clients are asked to read and sign the following as confirmation of their understanding of the practice:

‘All advice given is based on an Eastern understanding of Qi Energy and the effect it has on a person’s wellbeing. Our practitioners do not claim to diagnose, prevent or cure any injury or disease.’

All clients are, therefore, made aware that Innersound is not a substitute for medical diagnosis, treatment or cure.

It is slanderous and absurd to suggest that Naima Mohamed was told that ancestral healing would “keep the cancer away”. Ancestral healing is a spiritual practice not a health cure. Naima expressed an interest in the programme before even knowing she had cancer. Ancestral healing, as well as Qi treatments and Qi classes, is based on the principle of Qi (which means energy), and is a common feature of Eastern philosophy, religion and even martial arts.

Naima Mohamed stopped attending the Qi courses at Innersound in the winter of 2011 to take part in a 5 month intensive skiing expedition around Europe with the army to qualify for the national squad. It was not a skiing trip or holiday, but an intensive and demanding programme, even for someone not in remission from cancer. Qi masters and trainees at Innersound advised her that it would be too demanding. When she returned to the UK, she was exhausted and in pain. She then discovered that the cancer had spread and was terminal.

She returned to the Innersound centre for Qi treatments and Qi classes. Master Oh and the Qi masters again advised her to take the advice of her medical team, which was to have chemotherapy. This is the same advice given in 2010 and in line with the policy of Innersound. A large number of Qi class trainees and friends of Naima Mohamed were aware of the advice given by Innersound and also aware of the firm decision made by Naima not to have chemotherapy. Her decision did not change after she left Innersound and she continued to pursue other natural therapies and techniques rather than conventional medicine.

It is inaccurate and false to suggest that Naima was told not to have chemotherapy. The only person making this claim is a 32 year old management consultant, mentioned in the Cultnews article. Even Naima Mohamed’s family did not know of the diagnosis at this time as Naima did not wish to worry them.

Naima Mohamed did not ask for a refund after completing the programmes at Innersound because she was not disappointed with them. She understood they are an eastern holistic practice that encompass the body, mind and spirit, and not a medical health cure. Nor did she ask for a refund before she went skiing for 5 months with the army. She did not even ask for a refund after being diagnosed with terminal cancer. She asked for a refund only after she had been contacted by an individual who, at the time, was on a personal mission to damage Innersound for his own campaign.

It is entirely defamatory and false to suggest that Innersound tried to blackmail Naima Mohamed. Naima Mohamed approached the Mail on Sunday in conjunction with the individual mentioned above. It is significant that the Mail on Sunday did not publish the majority of the claims because they were factually unfounded and broke the strict press regulations about slander and defamation. Unfortunately, Cultnews and wishwash do not appear to abide by such rules, apparent from the emotive article, which sadly is far from the truth.

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Re: Ki Health International [aka Qi Wellness]...Cult run by Criminals
Posted by: Innersoundwatch ()
Date: January 27, 2013 02:54AM

Innersound and your faithful leader Oh,

You don't seem to get the message- why did the downfall of Korea happen in 2000, why did the downfall of Margaret Street happen, why is this happening to you now? Because you never admit you are wrong, you never apologise, you never change. You talk about overcoming arrogance but you demonstarte the height of arrogance and stubbornness. You keep doing the same things, and are going to get the same results. You are not attacked because you are "Heaven" being persecuted, you are attacked because you have no respect for people other than yourselves- they are nothing to you. Maybe if you try take some steps in the right direction you could avoid things escalating out of control this time around.

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