SimonB:

"Self-styled judges on this kangaroo court"?

Second warning.

See the rules. Personal attacks targeting members of this message board is against the rules you agreed to before posting here.

One more infraction and you will be banned from the message board.

Innersound, what you also do not seem to understand is, Naima offered sworn testimony to the police about these events, and she spoke to the journalist who wrote the Cultnews article before she died. Naima herself and others confirmed the blackmail threat. So by calling all these things lies, you are indeed smearing a recently deceased person's character. Also was it necessary to disclose that she had liposuction, a very private issue just to give yourself some credibitily through demonstrating you know minor details?

Also as to the refund you are focusing as to when she asked which is a side issue- what you need to explain is why you refused, why lawyers had to get involved and why the process got stringed out for months delaying her trip to the US clinic while she was dying. Could those few months have made a difference- do you care?

When someone go against the organisation or leave they always use the blackmail and threats- that is their way it happenend with me like this when I left. I was so surprised they even attack someone that had been master so long and like brother to them- they change so quickly. In Korea they never give back the money. They only give back money after the judge order that way. I think now they have a big hard time in Korea and London. Many people leave. Not enough money.

I am feeling left out, Innersound keeps trying to lump all the blame onto one unnamed 32 years old, when there is a whole group of us against them here.

Simon B, you ask for an impartial authority- well ASA as you can can see the advertising standards authority, warned Innersound about making false health claims in their marketing documents- yet they continued. That is an impartial body isn't it. If they try get away with that in writing I can only imagine what happens orally.

The charity commission will revoke their status this time, Simon B, they just are getting their ducks in a row.

If you do not claim to be a medical treatment what is this:

About Master Oh
Having been diagnosed with the first stages of stomach cancer in his early twenties, Master Oh came to Ki Health. He healed himself with the Ki Method and went on to do the intensive training to become a Ki Master. He has now been a Ki Master almost twenty years and is well-known as the most senior Ki Master in the west, renowned for his healing ability. He was the first Ki Master to leave South Korea and introduce this method to the west, and has since opened Ki centres across three continents, including centres in Australia, US, Canada and the UK. Many of his patients travel a long distance to see him and he has helped people with a variety of chronic health conditions as well as with emotional and spiritual problems. As Manager of the UK branch, he trains other Ki Masters and is expanding the work of Ki Health across Europe.

as seen here: MOh

Now that appears that those in InnerSound/ Qi Wellness are reading this thread I have a something I'd like to say to them that I've not been able to do before as I was refused the opportunity.

Innersound / Qi Wellness, I came to you because I wasn't well and I was desperate to get better. You offered me hope and made me feel that I had a chance of health. You said it was all very simple that all I needed to do was undertake ancestor healing and then all my problems would be gone. I felt uncomfortable with how much it would cost but you reassured me that it had to cost a lot of money to be a gesture of true value. You would always flatter me and tell me what a beautiful soul I had but all along you were only interested in how much money you could take from me. How can you live with yourselves after you've tricked me and other people and of not only their money but even worse by taking hope.

Having been trained as a scientist and having worked for many years in scientific research I feel that an elucidation of what constitutes scientific “proof” is needed.

Scientific studies do not “prove” anything; they only show a causal relationship between a particular therapy, or drug being tested, and the response on the participants. Their language is the language of statistics and by comparing the response in the active and control groups, the efficacy of a particular therapy can be measured.

Thus, there are no scientific studies that can prove that chemotherapy (or any other intervention) cures cancer. That is not the purpose of scientific clinical trials, but to demonstrate the harmlessness (or otherwise) of the clinical intervention, and hopefully its efficacy. If the results are statistically significant, they can go ahead and promote the therapy or manufacture the drug, notwithstanding the side-effects.

One needs to keep in mind that western science and traditional eastern therapies do not mix well. Western science’s predominant paradigm is to study the parts and not the whole, for example, the effect of a particular drug or therapy on the heart, or lungs, or cell lymphoma. The eastern methodology, on the other hand, takes into account the whole individual, which means, his physical, mental and emotional disposition, as well as his history.

Having taken an interest in Qi therapies in particular, I have done a bit of research and have come across hundreds of papers published in reputable scientific journals that demonstrate (not prove) the efficacy of such therapies. Because the eastern model is based on the whole individual and not just the component parts, different individuals respond very differently to the therapy applied. Some people will get better; some won’t, but that is not in any way different from its western counterpart.

If you are interested in what scientific studies have been done on Qi therapy I direct you to www.citeulike.org/article/84027. This was a study done under rigorous scientific conditions and published in the International Journal of Neuroscience, Vol. 115, No. 2 (Jan 2005), 285.

There are hundreds of other articles published in reputable papers about the beneficial effects of Qi therapy, but to name them all here would extend into several pages. However, if you still want it, I will happily oblige.

I hope this puts to rest the scientific question. Regarding the other questions raised in this forum, one would wish that people would devote their time and precious lives to more salutary pursuits, such as helping the world solve some of the tremendous challenges facing it. There are millions of people around the world dying from hunger, wars, victims of climate change, ecological breakdown and economic meltdown; the list goes on. Use your time on this Earth wisely.

TheScientist:

"worked for many years in scientific research"?

There is no way this can be verified since you are posting here anonymously.

You offered one study specifically related to "Qi Training" not "Qi therapy".

See [informahealthcare.com]

This paper does not name the Qi Health group specifically and/or its specific form of ancestor training.

The training offered by Qi Health in London is based upon faith claims and religious beliefs. It is neither scientific or a "therapy".

Your post hardly "puts to rest the scientific question."

"Use your time on this Earth wisely"?

This comes across again as an attempt at another personal attack.

FYI -- Posts containing personal attacks will be deleted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2013 11:07PM by rrmoderator.

This thread isn't about the differences between Western and Eastern approaches towards health but rather Innersound / Qi Wellness merging elements of Eastern philosophies with manipulation and brainwashing to financially exploit people. It's true that meditation does help people, not that you have alluded to this, and that Qi Jong and Tai Chi are good for you. With some ingenuity, Innersound / Qi Wellness employ elements of these practices which do have benefits. Where Innersound / Qi Wellness differ is that they say that this alone won't help you and that you need to do ancestor healing and this will cause the most beneficial change and a major shift. This costs thousands of pounds and the Masters will apply a lot of pressure on a person to undertake ancestor healing from how it will benefit you personally and to your family which can be particularly difficult if you have an unwell relative. Next they'll hit you with ancestor healing level 2 or something called the four house angels and this will cost you even more money. After this they will just start inventing ritual and ceremonies and by this point you'll be so much under the influence of Master Oh and his cronies that you will gladly give your money to just for their approval and in the belief that you've gone this far to get better that you have to keep on going.

Where are the scientific studies that say that ancestor healing can remedy any health problems? How does cooking large meals for dead ancestors that are offered as sacrifices cure cancer or any other terminal or chronic condition? It doesn't and you won't find any scientific research claiming otherwise. It really seemed to me that the only people that benefited from these food sacrifices were the Masters who enjoyed eating it.

To reiterate, this isn't about East and West, or science vs spiritual beliefs this is about right and wrong and the way that Innersound / Qi Wellness manipulate and con the vulnerable people who come seeking their help is definitely wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2013 11:54PM by anhonestman.

The persons who are describing the costs they paid, financially, socially, physically during their time in Ki or Qi Wellness-- they are speaking out as citizens and providing information so that others can make informed decisions.

That, IMO, is regaining and exercising agency as human persons and as citizens.

A good time to spend time in this world, IMO.