I have been told they still need another $3 millon for Korea- good luck trainees I suspect you are going to be doing a lot of ancestor training and donations this year.

I do not know all the details with the money but the Mother Grandmaster also has daughter and she does not follow the organisation- she has a normal job and her husband has normal job. Even the daughter thinks this is wrong way- how can other people believe?

From one of the founders of the original London centre:

"I came to distinguish three ‘levels’ of CDSB teaching: about ki, about ancestors and about the grandmasters’ mission. The masters were understandably thoughtful about when and to whom they disclosed these. Very broadly, I eventually concluded that what I was told about ki seemed reliable, what I was told about ancestors was possible, and what I heard about the mission was bollocks.... Among what I was taught in classes was that world history roughly recapitulates on a cycle of slightly less than six thousand years. This is the kind of theory I used to think interesting as an eleven-year old, reading my first science fiction. There are any number of difficulties – where are metals and fossil fuels found after the first cycle? I invited the masters at Dae Ra Chun to back off this claim, which struck me as not only madly implausible but eminently disprovable. Perhaps this was some embroidery upon the teaching? But no, they insisted the six-millennia cycle was a core teaching. "

I have been silent about this for so long, but I feel compelled to write a response to the misleadingly named 'BalancedView', who is obviously a member (and I suspect a master) of Ki Health - sorry, I mean Innersound - or are you calling yourselves something new now? SO hard to keep up! Please accept my most humble, grovelling and sincere apologies if I'm not using your most recent name!

Firstly BV, you really should doubt your judgments and experiences. You SHOULD question them. Questioning is GOOD.

"I wasn't surprised to read the swathe of critical postings as this kind of site attracts those with a gripe". You mean a site that educates people about cults and thought-control? A site that warns people of how cults like the Moonies, Scientologists, Heaven's Gate, Children of God, Innersound and Heaven's Gathering (sorry - mentioned your lot twice!) etc. operate? A site that warns people about con-artists and crooks, who employ psychological tricks and tactics to control and get money out of people? Yes, I suppose it does attract people with a, as you say, 'gripe'.

"The larger majority....who have had positive experiences". I am not questioning this - I know that a lot of people go and have gone to Innersound for treatments, and pay smaller sums of money without being indoctrinated or fully expoited. They never find out what Innersound are. And the poeple who recieve 'treatments' from the minimal amount of charity workdone for tax and PR reasons. Sure, many people have positive experiences. It's part of the clever PR marchine. Master Oh (from now on I will only refer to him as Oh - I cannot stand to use a term of reverence for him) and gang are not stupid - they only target a minority of unlucky people who they believe will be most susceptible to their methods. And lucrative to them. I fully agree that the large majority have positive experiences, due to the clever front of the cult. That's how I was taken in.

I am also in my later years, and have also lived all over the world and experienced many cultures and religions. I too have also tried many therapies and been involved with different spiritual practises. But I do not include Innersound, who are not a spiritual religion. One day Oh and gang want to be as powerful as the Moonies, their Korean Cult Cousins! £100s of millions of pounds!

If you stay long enough at the centre, and enter the Innersound inner-circle, Oh will reveal to you that he is a GOD!!! And all the indoctrinated masters are gods!

Oh, you blaspheme. Shame on you. You are not a God. This fact is only revealed to people when they are 'ready'. Park Gui Dal, the Korean Innersound Grandmaster with a criminal record, is GOD. That's right, not even 'a' god, but 'The!'. The Creator using her body as a vessel. Park, shame on you, this is sacrilege of the highest order. Unsurprisingly, cults often have 'gods', 'prophets' and 'messiahs' leading their groups. Rev Moon is apparently also God. David Koresh was the Messiah. This list goes on and on...... Innersound is by no means unique in this.

BV, of course Innersound's brainwashing/mind-control techniques can be easily be looked at quite differently. They wouldn't work if they were obvious to the people that they are applied to and used on! And it's all about the techniques being applied together, in skilled application, on people in a vulnerable state (they target people like this through health fairs and exhibitions, where they can find potentials in a transitional, vulnerable, and often desperate, stage in life). That's when they work.

"Uniforms for example are worn throughout martial arts practises, Buddhist monstaries, as well as by airline crew, restuarant staff etc to name just a few." Yes, this is true, but as above, it's when these techniques are applied together that mind-control can be applied.

"Dormitory sleeping exists in student life worldwide, and in many parts of the world to have your own room is unheard of an many communities and families share rooms, houses etc." Yes, this is true. Ditto the above.

"From my knowledge of this organisation, there is no sleep deprivation. The masters always look remarkably healthy and awake. If they were only sleeping 3 hrs a night it would be very obvious" Masters are on around 4 hours a night sleep. If you are unfortunate enough to be sent to Korea for the completion of Master Training, you only receive about 3 hours sleep a night - for 7 weeks! You are fed 3 low protein meals a day, given hard labour, working in the fields, and you have to chant for 4 hour long sessions, and longer! Due to the lack of sleep and fatigue, you hallucinate - which according to Innersound Cult, are 'heavenly visions' that testify to the holiness of the Korean brainwashing factory.

"Diet control - the masters from my eyes seem to eat quite a varied diet, and are not even vegetarian". This is true. As above, low-protein applies to the Korean 'training'.

"A rigid and packed routine!" Absolutely. You get up at about 5am, and go to bed at around 12.30am. In between, it is non-stop cleaning, chores, chanting, and meditating. Classic text-book cult stuff.

"Unfortunately in the corporate world, I have seen too many people working under extreme pressure and stress, who feel bullied and afraid to speak up because they are afraid of losing their job". This is unfortunately true - but Innersound is not the answer. It's something that they also exploit.

"The masters' lifestyle and beliefs may not be what most people are used to but I can see they are happy and I have seen how much they lift other people who are struggling with their lives". Most (but not all!) of the masters are good people who are being exploited. It's very sad that their lives are being ruined. And their poor families (who Innersound cults members are told 'don't understand', and are 'being helped' by their ancestor work). As a former member, it breaks my heart to think what my family and friends went through.

I cannot comment on the situation in Korea, but regretfully there are may people around the world who are imprisoned or persecuted for their beliefs, not to mention wrongfully imprisoned." Yes there are. However, Park and gang were not wrongfully imprisoned. They are crooks. I wish that they were still on the other side of the bars! If they were, I wouldn't have given so much money and - more importantly- time to them.

"I am old enough and wise enough to know that there are many slides and many slants to a story". So am I! And they nearly ruined my life!!!! In this case there are 3 slants. 1. Oh's and Park's criminal slant. 2. The manipulated members benevolent slant. 3. Ex-members who realise what they have done, and sadly continue to do.

"It has also been mentioned throughout this site about the many names of Innersound in the UK, but if this kind of negative publicity follows you it may seem like a sensible choice if you have little knowledge of how to manage a reputation and develop a brand. I don't see this as criminal, more as naive." BalancedView, this is a crazy statement. They are not naive and I'm not going to even argue this. Just read the threads. For Heaven's sake.

"I have done and paid for ancestor ceremonies. I have also used the money I earn for my children's education, my mortgage, holidays, courses, investments." So have I. My children's education, mortgage, holidays, courses etc. were good investments though! Honestly, I would literally rather burn money, than line Oh's pockets again.

"I value the importance of spiritual healing for ancestors and believe in it." This is fair enough. Beliefs are important, but should not be exploited - as Innersound do.

"The changes in my family have been impressive as well, especially a very close relative whose chronic depression has lifted and is clearly a happier person since I completed the programme". Glad to hear it. It isn't because of the 'programme' though. If our ancestors really are floating around us, giving us cancer, migraines, depression etc etc, surely our ancestors hundreds/thousands of years ago would have been living 100 years plus. Given that the average lifespan during the Roman Empire was 25 years, and now life expectancy is 80.4 years in the UK, with so many more ancestors floating around us, surely it should be the other way around?

"I haven't seen members being pressured to do ancestor ceremonies, I just see the masters passion and belief in what they are doing and their wish to help others. There will always be those that are dissatisfied or who do things for the wrong reasons. There is no company that doesn't have some dissatisfied customers". This is absurd!!! Just read the threads BV, and look at the amount of 'dissatisfied customers' affected. Do you get this with most companies? NO. do you get this with ALL cults? YES. Boy, that coffee really smells - please wakeup BV, for your own sake, and -no doubt- your family's.

"I think that much of what is written about the ancestor programme shows a lack of understanding of the concept and the cost. I was already aware of ancestor worship in Asian countries". Yes, it happens in Asian countries. This is not about our ancestors (who are actually being shamefully exploited and dishonoured by Innersound). This is about a cult run by ruthless, ambitious people who will destroy lives to get what they want - power and money.

"I also believe that the comments are not a true reflection of the experiences of most people who have followed the programme and considered it a sacred and highly spiritual undertaking. The effort the masters put into the ceremonies many days a week should assure anyone of how genuine they are". Most of the masters are geniune, and believe that they're doing good.

"Again spiritual practice is not about results and I have heard the masters emphasise this." Do cult leaders Oh and Park concur with this? Does ££££ not fall under the term 'results'?

I hope that the masters and the centre will continue to help many people. They have my full support". Unfortunately they used to have mine too. How I wish that I had read this website before I joined them.

I am very keen to hear from anyone who has had a positive or negative experience with this organisation or any of its previous incarnations, either in the UK or overseas.

My wife has joined and, apart from a few uncharacteristic comments ("its all down to his ancestors??") she does seem to have found some comfort there.

Nonetheless, I am worried that she is becoming dependant on the centre and its practices and that unless I join (I wont) we will have completely differing outlooks on the nature of life, love and reality.

I also obviously have concerns about the money changing hands, fraud charges of founders etc, but this is not really my main concern.

Having said that, I struggle to see how the centre is a bona fide charity.

I am happy to trade email addresses with those who would like to communicate directly.

Everyone has some positive experiences or 'receives comfort' from cults initially- that is how they lure you in- they don't introduce themselves with their crazy beliefs and demands upfront. Don't be fooled by your wife's positive initial experiences. This is a cult- a very dangerous, destructive cult. And yes your wife's beliefs will become more and more different from yours, just like Tom Cruise cannot live with any normal person anymore- it is the same with all of these organisations- this one just has a Korean flavour. What hasn't this group done???? what more do you want to hear?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 01:39PM by Innersoundwatch.

Concerned Husband, I'd be very concerned if I were you. As Innersoundwatch says, cults initially lure you in with positive experiences. Nobody is going to join an organisation that say's it is run by 'living gods' who will use subtle mind control techniques to get you to do exactly what they want, which in this case appears to be give them as much money as they can persuade you to part with.

I say this as someone who spent several years in another cult that I thought was a genuine Buddhist organisation. I thought I was an educated, mature, intelligent and even sceptical person, but these guys managed to suck me in. Their emphasis was on taking your time and energy to expand the organisation - although there was subtle pressure to 'donate' money with the usual cult formula (you will get back x-times more than you give).

I'm grateful that I managed to break free by questioning what was happening and regaining some perspective and critical thinking on the subject, but I must warn you that mind control techniques are very sophisticated and powerful these days. Red flags to look out for are chanting and meditation, especially encouraging one to do regular, excessive amounts of this. It certainly makes you feel good, but it also makes you very susceptible to suggestion and gradually, in addition to other techniques, your ability to see what is happening disappears and any questioning you may have of the organisation is subject to 'thought stopping' techniques.

Most of the fellow members of the organisation will no doubt be innocent 'true believers'. The people I met were pleasant, well-meaning folk who genuinely believed that they were doing all this stuff for 'world peace' and that to bring new people into the organisation was help them become happy. Many of the members of Innersound may be in the same boat. Cults would find it hard to survive unless they used this model, I guess.

So - do your research and share it with your wife. And even if she isn't convinced by all the evidence, remember that there are genuine non-controversial groups that can give her what she may be searching for (yoga classes etc). Why choose to get involved with an organisation that has such a dodgy reputation, when there are healthier alternatives out there?

Good luck,

Simplify

Simplify

Apart from my post to Concerned Husband, I've got a few things to add about this organisation which I came across recently.

They are now calling themselves Qi Wellness [www.qiwellness.org] which is based at the same address as Innersound (25 Queen Anne Street, London W1G 9HT) and has a very similar website. Master Oh is the 'Principle Master' at Qi Wellness (as he has been throughout all the name changes of the Ki Health International organisation).

They still claim to do charitable activities, which is a good way of whitewashing the organisation and also a way to get charitable status. Since they don't claim to be a religious organisation in the UK, they have to do this for the tax breaks. I wonder why they don't claim charitable status by declaring themselves a religious organisation, after all that is what they really are? Could it be because they don't want to show the link with their ex-con 'Grand Masters' and Daerachan, the head temple in Korea?

I came across this organisation at a performance in West London recently. They were billed as a "Traditional Korean(South) Music Group fresh from the Olympic Stadium". Actually, it turns out that they had had nothing official to do with the Olympics. As we watched the performance, which was followed by 'free Qi treatments' for all, it became more and more obvious that this group was not what it claimed. In fact I presume this is the same or similar group that pays to give 'performances' at Mind, Body, Spirit festivals throughout the UK.

The free treatments were very nice and at least harmless (I suspect a strong placebo effect going on there). But what was not nice was the form that each person had to fill in with their details. This included tick boxes for health concerns such as Depression, Anxiety, Tiredness....you get my drift...this is a good way to find out how vulnerable a person might be. They were VERY insistent about the forms being filled in. This was a real red flag to me. I thought I'd come to watch an 'Olympic' dance and drumming performance, not to get added to a mailing list for a dubious new age health centre. A couple of days later an email to all those filling out the forms came with a 30% discount offer on treatments. The treatments, by the way are not cheap. Of course, you might say, anyone could have chosen not to have the free treatment or fill in the form, but that is not the point. This is a classic bait and switch cult technique.

I suspect that the majority of people taking-up the offer of discounted treatment will enjoy the treatment, pay their money and leave without any harm being done. But some of them, who appear most susceptible (especially people at a vulnerable time in their lives), will be chosen by the masters to be invited to take classes and then go on to pay for the despicable fake 'Ancestor healing' stuff. The classes are where the mind control starts and this is the nasty, dangerous, cultish part of the whole business.

By the way the dance group goes under the name of the Qi Culture Theatre Group (aka Jungshim Dance group) [www.qiculturetheatregroup.com] . Their website was only set-up the day after the performance I attended (after the Olympic closing ceremony and showing no photos from the Olympic Stadium) and it appears that they were waiting for pictures of the audience to help validate the dance group before going public. The only other photos they were able to display on the website seem to be from a street performance near London Bridge, with a couple of mystified members of the public looking on. This dance group is made-up entirely of Qi Masters from Korea (surprise surprise) and it is pretty obvious that they are just a 'front' to gather fresh meat for the cult.

Everything about this organisation shouts cult and anyone interested in finding out why should read from the beginning of this thread. The evidence is there, you just have to put it together.

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simplify

By the way the dance group goes under the name of the Qi Culture Theatre Group (aka Jungshim Dance group) [www.qiculturetheatregroup.com] .

Well that's strange. I have two letters from Ki Health (former name) and their lawyers Carter Ruck denying any connection between Jungshim and Ki Health and threatening to sue. And the letters were hand delivered at my place of work in Korea by members of Jungshim who added a few "less legal" threats of their own.

And regarding Concerned Husband's issue, I'm wondering how does Ki/Qi react when loved ones of members become suspicious / questioning? I know how most cults react, but of course I'm not saying Ki/Qi is a cult... so need to send your Korean Mafia friends to my place of work again.

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simplify
I came across this organisation at a performance in West London recently. They were billed as a "Traditional Korean(South) Music Group fresh from the Olympic Stadium". Actually, it turns out that they had had nothing official to do with the Olympics.

Maybe their bus went past the Olympic Stadium on its way to West London?