Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Date: January 12, 2010 03:57AM
Hi Suenam.
In answer to your post:
(Suenam) Who in DWB is in the perfect position to either encourage or discourage racism?
I would say that Ole Nydahl is in the perfect position to either encourage or discouage racism. No question about it.
(Suenam) - having spent time in Poland, I have to agree that it is much like England was in the 70's when there was widespread xenophobia born out of the fact that people were simply not used to seeing people who were different.
However, as you say yourself - many of these Polish people are in fact living in the U.K., and so they can't really fall back on this excuse - how can someone who themselves are immigrants living for several years in a multicultural society hang on to such beliefs? - well, one obvious answer springs to mind - they surround themselves and belong to a group which promotes that kind of thinking.
I think old habits are very hard to break. Just moving to a multicultural society (and I think we have to concede that the British aren't rid of their own prejudices either) doesn't immediately purge oneself of habitual prejudices.
(Suenam) - how is it possible that Ole is not a racist? (or at least that he is unaware of promoting racist thinking) - if that is so then he must simply be stupid!
As I mentioned, I'm just not sure about his views on race? At first glance they really do appear to be the rants of a died in the wool racist. I try to be as fair as possible and want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I have never heard him come out and directly say he hates people of colour. I can only comment on what I have experienced and for me there is a little abiguity.
He does raise an excellent point when denouncing human rights abuses and the abuses perpetrated on women in some countries. But as I tried to point out in my last post (and I'm sorry if I didn't make the point clear enough) it just so happens that in the cultures where the abuses he highlights take place, the indigenous population is one of colour. The fact that they have coloured skins has no bearing upon whether they are going to commit these abuses or not. Race and skin colour has no bearing upon this at all. I think this is evidenced by the fact that not everyone in these countries is guilty of human rights abuses.
Where he makes a big mistake is when he makes sweeping statements about Muslims. He overlooks the fact that many people flee oppressive regimes in Islamic countries for the freedoms we offer in the west. Perhaps I am seriously miguided in my views (I'm no academic in this field) but I would be very suprised if these people flee these oppressive regimes to re-establish the same oppressive regime in another country. It makes no sense. Also, within one or two generations these people are for all intents and purposes, British (or take on the cultural values of the countries the decide to settle in).
Of course there are the "hardliners" who wish to use our democracy to undermine that very democracy but I feel that the vast majority of Muslims wish to preserve the freedoms they enjoy in the West.
I am aware of only one person of colour who is Ole's student and has been for many years. My impression is that this student is highly educated, ariculate and strong willed. I doubt that they would fail to notice if Nydahl was racist? But again I can't know for sure. Of all the DWB practitioners in the West how many are of colour? Is this a telling factor? My knee jerk reaction is to say he is racist but I just don't have enough evidence on the man to say 100% for sure.
But other people seem to report different accounts and I am in no position to dispute their claims.
As for some of his students? Well, I know of one group in the UK who had their mailing list suspended as it was claimed to have been a forum for propagating race hate. I didn't see any of the mails, and even though I lived in a close contact with some "senior" students of Nydahls, the issues was never discussed in my presence (but that might be because my views on racism in DWB had already been noted). So I have no doubt from my exchanges with some of his students that there is a racist division of DWB. I was shouted at by the head of the centre I attended for suggesting such a thing. I was having a civilised debate and was shocked (in hindsight I should have expected it) to see a student of Ole's, who claimed 20 years experience fly off the handle in this way. Perhaps it's becasue the emphasis is on building centres rather than self development through meditation?
(Suenam) - for me, the problem is not so much whether he is a racist or not (either privately or publicly), but the fact that his comments are so misguided. You say that, "if he wishes to defend our culture from dangerous Islamic values then I support his call for vigilance", but even this strikes me as a problematic and value-biased statement - for one, the term "dangerous values" seems rife with the demonisation of Islam that is at the heart of fascist ideology
I'm sure you will agree that in some cultures there are practices which defy all human decency, even in our own countries (catholic preists abusing children etc.), it is to these types of practices that I agree with his calls for vigilance. It is of course a value based statement, but then so are our statements on DWB. We all have a value system against which we compare others. I like the Christian idea of "do unto other as you would have done to yourself". From my experience of Nydahl he asks his student to be vigilant of these human rights abuses. Some of his students use it as an excuse for making clearly racist remarks.
I have pointed out to many DWB parctitioners that when he is condemning human rights abuses he neglects to mention China, the Catholic priests I refer to or the keepers of Guantanamo Bay. Make of this what you will? It is a serious oversight on his behalf methinks.
(Suenam) but worse still is this idea that our culture needs to be defended by someone like him!!!
I agree. He isn't enlightened or liberated in my opinion. He might just be guilty of the stupidity you accuse him of. Being an academic is no measure of intelligence.
(Suenam) (our culture does not need defending - it is not so weak, and personally I have a greater fear from the Ole Nydahls who claim to be representatives of a culture which I do not recognise, either as a Buddhist, British, European, or on any level for that matter)
I'm not sure I understand the point you make here so I make no comment.
(Suenam) I'm know for sure that certain things have been brought to Ole's attention concerning what goes on in his centres.
In my experience it's normally the rosy version as relayed by his "travelling teachers". But I can't dispute you claims. I only add my own observations.
(Suenam) So again, I can see no good reason for your claim. In my direct experience, I know that Ole will always side with the person who puts in the hours and brings in the money - DWB runs exactly the same as the Army or Police force in that respect - the heirarchy is so obvious to anyone who has been there even a few weeks, and it is also effectively absolute because it is based upon trust - anyone who dares to challenge the word of those above them gets told to leave.
Yes I agree (I think the Army and Police analogy is a little strong) there is a definate heirarchy. But from my chats with some travelling teachers some of them do appear to break ranks. I suspect that they quickly return to the fold though so that they don't lose their "travelling teacher" status. All a bit disturbing in my opinion. Show dissent and you might e deemed problematic, as in my case.
As for being asked to leave? In my case I wasn't asked to leave as such, more the door was left ajar for me to leave. In hindsight, I really don't want to belong to an organization that didn't want me as a member (not quite the Groucho Marx quote).
I just wished they'd told me before I'd payed 6 years membership and given many hours of free labour to raise the value of the property they bought. But hey, I take it as a lesson learned and perhaps it ripened some negative karma I had buried in my store consciousness. I hope that by posting here anyone getting involved with DWB will be encouraged to challenge the things we report or find themselves an authentic Dharma teacher. Which reminds me, Buddhism, if approached with the spirit the Buddha encouraged (don't believe something just because a Buddha told you, check it for yourself) is a truly immeasurable gift. Do not be discouraged from practicing Buddhism.
Best wishes.