Here is Ole's recent comments about Islam: He says, “… I protect Christianity every day, especially because I see a big attack from Islam, a great, great danger from Islam… Nobody has ruined as much for us as the Muslims. They destroyed the Silk Road, they destroyed the whole of northern India, and historically they have cost us millions and millions and millions of people. Simply because they were Buddhists.”

"To say it plainly, it’s really embarrassing that people — after 2,000 years of development towards freedom here in Europe — cannot comprehend their potential, don’t trust themselves, or are so badly disabled in childhood that they cast away their free will and enslave themselves under a totalitarian and fascist system. Surely, it’s pure fascism to subordinate oneself to other people in that way — no matter if it’s under a deity dictating what to do, a prophet, Hitler or Stalin. It’s always the same. Whenever you deny people their freedom of choice and self-determination, you reduce them to inferior beings."

In other words, he seems to have an historical grudge and also a belief that European culture is threatened by the Muslim religion. Watching what is going on in Iran these days and the ongoing influence of organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and promoters of a religion based legal system it is easy to see how these groups are completely contrary to European values. But is the average Muslim community really that easily influenced by those kind of groups, or aligned that way in respect to their values? It is generally not so in North America, as far as I can tell, but Ole thinks it is in Europe.

He seems to think that political correctness and various kind of cowardice, or whatever, is masking the truth. I wonder if there are any thoughtful Europeans reading this that have anything to say about that. Do some Europeans, especially eastern Europeans see Islam as a religious version of communism?

Dear Eddie49,

It is very interesting that you followed all the practises and in the end did not trust ole enough. I have to say you fall into the same whole like all of us did the difference is that some people were able to climb out earlier.
I have been with a group and got close to maya steve and jacek.
For me maya was always fake never ever truly open, steve was a guy who is boring but has a brain just felt really sorry for him. He has a mother complex and he found maya who is bossing him around. Jacek many times offered that he would like to take me to bed as i have a very special vibe...

For me it was disguisting enough to start questioning.

dear cudebenme,

When i met with ole everybody told me i need to feel some special thing. I felt only one thing i do not want to get blessed by him. When i escaped from the blessing many people looked at me in a funny rude way.
I felt something very strong dishonesty about him and very stout resistance not to have a contact with him.
Interestingly i had tears in my eyes when i saw him but i think because of his very similar to my Dad who is a charismatic person as well and who i miss very much.
Many people explained that i have a very strong connection to the lama.They explained i have fear because he can see deep down inside me, but deep down i knew the reason is different for this.

I did not feel that i am in the buddhist society i felt i am in a social club. Many girls got invited in this way-come and join us the lama is extremely sexy and if you are lonely you can find a boyfriend.

This should be not the main aim to join a buddhist group.

I heard ole's recent talk and i am so surprised he is still going into the muslim question.
This should not happen ,i am not saying we should be PC all the time but ole does not realise that with his comments he is generating hate. And hate and buddhism are not too good friends.

He probably never learnt mass psychology. To influence the crowd it is very easy especially if the crowd following their leader that much.
Even within the group it happened to be hatred if you were born muslim. There is a guy who was born muslim and became buddhist in a very early stage in his years. He loves ole and really looks up on him.
The people did not see this way, they see he is a muslim. Although they are smiling at him -we love you man - but in his back they say -(origin)....muslim.

How can it happen?

For me the whole group is disfunctioning and i am very glad i am out. They controlled me secretly and they gossiped a lot as they have huge jealousy.


So coming back to eddie49 i am not making bad comments about them i am telling the truth. The truth how i felt and how i still see them as when i jioned them i was open minded and very very trustworthy towards them. But spending more and more time with them and that i was able to keep my strong individuality i started to see the underface truth.

So please don't judge me for this.

When i left i cut all the friendship with everone as i clearly feel the cloud in front of their eyes. The conversations with them are always one sided either gossip or talking about ole.

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jah
Here is Ole's recent comments about Islam: He says, “… I protect Christianity every day, especially because I see a big attack from Islam, a great, great danger from Islam… Nobody has ruined as much for us as the Muslims. They destroyed the Silk Road, they destroyed the whole of northern India, and historically they have cost us millions and millions and millions of people. Simply because they were Buddhists.”

- this reads like a whining child, "they did it, they ruinied it for us, and just because we are buddhists" (buddhists who incidentally believe they are they champions of christianity?!?!).
- it is easy enough to do a wikipedia search and read about how the tibetan buddhists allied themselves with various political powers - the mongol horde, the haan dynasty, and even the turks. in fact the original tibetans were bon-po and they were persecuted by power hungry buddhists using some very astute political manoevering.
- moreover, this is a very backward looking view, apportioning blame using this "book-keeping" system ("they have cost us...."), and that their motivation was not economic or territorial gain, but simply because they are different. (Ole cleverly projects his own petty motivations onto them and then uses this to knock them!?!?).

Quote
jah
"To say it plainly, it’s really embarrassing that people — after 2,000 years of development towards freedom here in Europe — cannot comprehend their potential, don’t trust themselves, or are so badly disabled in childhood that they cast away their free will and enslave themselves under a totalitarian and fascist system. Surely, it’s pure fascism to subordinate oneself to other people in that way — no matter if it’s under a deity dictating what to do, a prophet, Hitler or Stalin. It’s always the same. Whenever you deny people their freedom of choice and self-determination, you reduce them to inferior beings."

- 2,000 years of development - beginning with the roman empire and crucifixion of the "messiah", then tribal warfare, pagan child sacrifice, the dictatorship of the catholic church, the crusades, the invasion and enslavement of the americas and africa, the exploitation and desecration of the natural world, and countless barbaric wars in a struggle for power which resulted in the development and use of nuclear weapons...
The idea of "progress" and "freedom" the Ole puts forward is incredibly naive!
- interestingly he mentions Hitler and Stalin, it would seem that the list of european christian dictators is a lot longer than the equivalent for Islam.

Quote
jah
In other words, he seems to have an historical grudge and also a belief that European culture is threatened by the Muslim religion. Watching what is going on in Iran these days and the ongoing influence of organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and promoters of a religion based legal system it is easy to see how these groups are completely contrary to European values. But is the average Muslim community really that easily influenced by those kind of groups, or aligned that way in respect to their values? It is generally not so in North America, as far as I can tell, but Ole thinks it is in Europe.

He seems to think that political correctness and various kind of cowardice, or whatever, is masking the truth. I wonder if there are any thoughtful Europeans reading this that have anything to say about that. Do some Europeans, especially eastern Europeans see Islam as a religious version of communism?

hmm, that is an interesting idea, but for me, at least the ideals of communism are an equality for all, even if that has never translated very well into reality. On the other hand, the one country who seems to give a voice to right-wing fascism these days is Denmark - and interestingly enough, some of those extreme right-wing politicians are also members of DWB.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 03:58AM by suenam.

During the seven years I was with DWB I met some truly wonderful people. Bright, inquisitive minds in search of answers to life’s problems for themselves and others. To these people I offer my heartfelt thanks for your support over these years.

Pretty much from the start I found I had some doubts about Ole Nydahl. I'm sure that he has set out to spread Dharma with the very best intentions. I'm not sure he has set out to create a personality cult around himself though. I think that due to his unquestionable charm people who perhaps lack maturity and feel the need to follow a patriarch have found themselves attracted to him. I find it impossible to believe that, given the way his students idolise him, that this wouldn’t affect him and I kind of suspect that he has become a victim of this personality cult himself. It is almost expected of him that he'll partake in a spot of stage diving at the after show parties. He has become something of a “rock star” and we often read how they lose can lose their grip on reality, relative or otherwise.

His comments about race are confused and inappropriate. Race really has no bearing upon anything. Regardless of colour we all have the capacity to behave with compassion and dignity. It is cultural mores which mould the personalities and beliefs of people not the colour of their skin. If I am separated from my parents at birth and handed over to Japanese parents I will grow up with a Japanese values system. I will look Western in appearance but all things Western will be alien to me. So if he wishes to defend our culture from dangerous Islamic values then I support his call for vigilance but just because a person appears Islamic doesn't mean they harbour the values he is so frightened of.

And here in lie the problem. Sweeping statements that are lapped up by some of his students who already have a racist agenda. Do I think Nydahl is a racist? Actually I doubt it. I have seen him with his students form Latin America and see that he has great affection for them. Do I think there is a rich vein of racism within Diamond Way Buddhism. Well actually I don't "think" it, I am convinced of it. I have had numerous arguements with some of Ole's students who have been quite happy to tell me why blacks have no value in our societies or how they would like to blow up mosques with Muslims in them. I say they are racist because they are unable to give defendable arguments as to why they harbour these views. It's fear. It's paranoia. In every case it has come from some his students from Eastern Europe or Germany. Perhaps I can understand it from people from Eastern Europe as, to my understanding, the influx of black people into those countries is relatively new or unheard of and so perhaps it's a reaction to something they don't understand. I want to qualify my comments as to why it is predominantly Eastern European students of Nydahl. It's probably because in DWB they make up the vast majority of students. I'm sure if the UK membership was as great then perhaps we would find the same strong vein of knee jerk racism. We British are quite capable of the same vile behaviour, it's just that we make up a tiny fraction of the DWB community.

At a recent public talk in London some of Nydahl's white students were taking their children to be blessed by him when he announced over the mic, "It's good that you people are having children otherwise our cities will start to 'look' like Africa in a few years". I was intersted in his choice of the word 'look'. By all means protect our culture against the some of the attitudes towards women which persist in some African cultures, and I feel that was the real message behind this statement, but if he can't see that this feeds the beliefs of those of his students who already harbour racist views then I call into doubt his credentials as an enlightened or liberated teacher. I have spoken to several people who were present at the event who also expressed their concern over this statement, so for those Diamond Way people who are monitoring my posts (and I have been informed that you are, so hello to you all) I am not making this up.

Diamond Way Buddhism has some wonderful people. I have met with Steve James and have nothing negative to say about the guy. The same goes for some of the other big names in the UK like Matt and Christina (now in Germany I believe). You may have had different experiences but I have to be honest and fair and say I have nothing negative to report.

So for those good people in DWB who are monitoring these posts here is why I have jumped ship (I believe an e-mail detailing all my experiences is to be circulated to some of the more senior UK members. I don't want to expand in the same detail here as I do not wish to offer names of certain individuals).

I have long worried that DWB is a personality cult and this was confirmed to me when it was suggested to me that my not seeing Ole Nydahl as my root lama was the root of the problems within the group I attended. It was put to me that I couldn't hope to represent DWB if I didn't see Nydahl as my root lama. So it was made clear to me that not having Ole Nydahl as my root lama is a problem. During a discussion I was also told by one of Nydahls long standing students that "I trust Ole and believe everything he says".

Having confidence in Buddhas teachings and trying to apply them in ones everyday life appears to not meet the criteria for attending a Diamond Way Centre. It appears that the only condidtion is that one must have Ole Nydahl as your root lama and have the same trust and unwavering belief in his words. This suggests cult behaviour to me.

I'm confident that Ole Nydahl himself would have no problem with me not seeing him as his root lama. I regard Karmapa and Sharmapa as my root lamas and again I would be surprised if Ole had a problem with this. Nydahl claims to want independent, free thinkers and I would hope that he too would be a little alarmed to hear that someone believes everything he says.

My final point is that I believe he doesn't know what goes on in his centres. He places great trust in his travelling teachers and centre founders but is insulated against the real flavour of DWB being incubated in his centres. He sees smiling faces at his courses, he visits a centre and everyone is on their best behaviour. He might offer advice on the running of a centre while he is there but would find that much of his advice is moulded to suit the ideals of the indivuals who run some of his centres. It's interesting in my discussions with different centre founders how their views on how a centre should offer Buddha' teachings.

To counter some of the comments made on this forum. I have never been pressured into giving money. I have not been treated unfairly by those people who know I have left Diamond Way. I may be having my posts monitored (as I mentioned earlier I have been told that I am) but there have been no threats made against me. I offer facts as they are and my comments are my own personal reflections on my time with DWB. As I said, each centre appears to have it's own dynamic and I do not claim that the experiences of others are not true. But I wish to offer as balanced and truthful account of my DWB experiences as I can.

Steve

A look at history does reveal conflicts between muslims and buddhists during the 10-12th century Islamic sweep through Asia, and there is still a lot of animosites in Kashmir and other mountainous areas apparently. However, I think Ole's grievances have more to do with the growth of Muslim ghettos and the kind of crime that has brought; that of course is due to botched immigration policy and management, not something inherently wrong with the Muslim religion. Unfortunately, such circumstances will bring out the worst not only in human beings in general, but also in the ways unique to their culture of origin, thus things like honour killing, and pride rape, and so forth. Although the movie 'District 9,' was about apartheid, it is the ultimate anti-ghetto movie as it portrays what happen to people when they are ghettoized, for whatever reason. Europe as the new South Africa, or Europe as an Islamic state - both scenarios scare people I guess.

While I agree with a lot of what you write SteveLpool, there are a couple of questions that come to mind;

1) Who in DWB is in the perfect position to either encourage or discourage racism?

- having spent time in Poland, I have to agree that it is much like England was in the 70's when there was widespread xenophobia born out of the fact that people were simply not used to seeing people who were different.

However, as you say yourself - many of these Polish people are in fact living in the U.K., and so they can't really fall back on this excuse - how can someone who themselves are immigrants living for several years in a multicultural society hang on to such beliefs? - well, one obvious answer springs to mind - they surround themselves and belong to a group which promotes that kind of thinking.

- how is it possible that Ole is not a racist? (or at least that he is unaware of promoting racist thinking) - if that is so then he must simply be stupid!

- for me, the problem is not so much whether he is a racist or not (either privately or publicly), but the fact that his comments are so misguided. You say that, "if he wishes to defend our culture from dangerous Islamic values then I support his call for vigilance", but even this strikes me as a problematic and value-biased statement - for one, the term "dangerous values" seems rife with the demonisation of Islam that is at the heart of fascist ideology, but worse still is this idea that our culture needs to be defended by someone like him!!!
(our culture does not need defending - it is not so weak, and personally I have a greater fear from the Ole Nydahls who claim to be representatives of a culture which I do not recognise, either as a Buddhist, British, European, or on any level for that matter)


2) I'm know for sure that certain things have been brought to Ole's attention concerning what goes on in his centres. So again, I can see no good reason for your claim. In my direct experience, I know that Ole will always side with the person who puts in the hours and brings in the money - DWB runs exactly the same as the Army or Police force in that respect - the heirarchy is so obvious to anyone who has been there even a few weeks, and it is also effectively absolute because it is based upon trust - anyone who dares to challenge the word of those above them gets told to leave.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2010 03:58PM by suenam.

Dear Suenam & Milarepa

Thank you for your recent posts that give more background to the earlier statements that had concerned me. I apologise if it came across that I was judging either of you - that was not my intention. I just think that it can be harmful to pass on negative personal comments, but if it’s based on directly witnessed experience and serves to warn others, then it’s a valuable contribution to this forum. It’s up to each of us who have had experience of this group to tell it in our own way.

Looking back on my experience, it is surprising that I stuck with the DWB as long as I did. I think I had the doubts and concerns about the group from the very first meeting, but this was my first exposure to any Tibetan form of Buddhism. It did hold a fascination for me – and still does. I also genuinely liked many of the people there. Much of what SteveLpool has said in his excellent posts strikes a chord with me. It seems that those of us drop-outs who are not sexually attractive females have had an easier time. I’ve now moved to the safer (if less exciting!) ground of the Gelugpa tradition.

I will elaborate on what I said in my previous post, regarding comments by Ole on Africans. It was a small dinner party of about 12 people, including Ole, Hannah, and Tomeck. Someone asked about Buddhism in Africa. I cannot remember his exact words, but Ole said something along the lines that it was a waste of time setting up a centre in Africa because Africans were not capable of understanding the dharma. I was sickened that over a glass of wine Ole was dismissing a whole continent. I think the racist tendencies in DWB do come from the top. At the same meeting, Ole and Tomeck spent a lot of time rubbishing Tibetan Karma Kagyu lamas who were followers of the ‘other’ 17th Karmapa. Have Ole and co never heard of the noble eightfold path and ‘right speech’? Or is that just for those poor Buddhists who are not part of the elite?

Herein lies the reason why I have abandoned the Karma Kagyu altogether, and not joined one of their other groups. Their tradition does (in my opinion) provide a philosophy that ‘renegade’ lamas can exploit. They can use the theory of ‘collective karma’ to explain why one group of people is inferior to another. They don’t see themselves as being bound by the moral and social norms in society. They believe they have a special insight that over-rides any laws, sutras, or precepts. And the problem is magnified because the renegade lamas can seem to be no different from good, authentic lamas in the same tradition, making it very difficult for newcomers to distinguish.

I remain convinced that Buddhism has a valuable place within western society. I’ll put the time I spent with DWB down to experience, and hope that those who have had bad experiences with the group, or read of the issues via this forum, are not put off of Buddhism altogether and can find another path.

Eddie49

Hi all,
I am also a former DWB member and have read the posts here (phew). The other ex members words sound about equal to my own experience whereas some of the other posts sound like hysterical rumor spreading based on little more than hearsay. I think this kind of information would benefit from less hysteria, less hearsay and plain rubbish.

It has been a strange and wild ride with the diamond Way, a lot of fun also actually, great friends, but today I´m glad I left. The whole thing has become too big and too strange. I actually have no real big regrets having been a part of the group for years. It was an experience.

I think I learned a lot and then it was time to move on. I have seen no pressuring for donations. There are some strange things in the community but at the same time I think a lot of the posts here are highly exaggerated from my POV. Just wanted to say hi and I will be here abouts if needed, as will the other ex dwb members I suppose.
I am in contact with some other "drop outs" as well and most of them say just about the same as me.
They decided to leave but have no big regrets and they are not persecuted in any way nor am I.
I remain friends with a lot of DW people. Noone has dropped me from Facebook due to me dropping out or anything like that.
When I left I sent an email to Ole and explained why I left.
He basically said "good luck in life with whatever you choose to do".

If there are questions I´ll try to answer. Take care people.

-
i think that perhaps this idea of "pressuring for donations" is a bit misleading. the question seems to be about the prioritisation of fund-raising, and subsequently of expansion and acquisition.

just a quick glance at the london dwb site shows 7 pages, 2 of which have their bank details on - just in case you wish to donate.

dwb have a fund-raising agenda not dissimilar to certain charity organisations, or even the church for that matter - however the question arises whether they are using this money for the good of all, or simply empire building.

there seems to be this idea that - by growing and becoming a larger, higher profile organisation, that dwb can "benefit all" by spreading the word of Ole Nydahl, and that the growth of the "empire" is just a side-effect.

this would sound a lot more convincing if dwb were not so mired in indentity thinking - hence our concerns over the divisive statements made by Ole and practised by his followers.

so the issues are - is dwb's fund raising a means to an end, or simply an end in itself?
- and what sort of end result is being produced here - is it one which benefits all or simply benefits a few at the expense of others?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2010 08:17AM by suenam.

Funny how these fringe groups choose to operate only in the areas of the world where there is disposable income to be targeted.

I have had no dealings with this group at all but I've been reading my way through this site for my own continuing education.
What struck me about Ole's dismissal of an entire continent, Africa, as being unable to benefit from his 'wisdom teachings' is that Africa is so poor in disposable income that there would be slim pickings for a group such as his--and that this might better explain his reluctance to spread his 'wisdom' there (along with his very obvious racism, of course)

Africa already has plenty of home-grown evangelicals bent on fleecing its people, Ole is also probably considering the competition for what little disposable income is available.