Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
holymoly
()
Date: February 25, 2009 08:27AM
I recently heard from someone really high in the diamondway hierarchy that there is a plan to make a sperm bank from Ole available to women who would like to get pregnant from him. I think it is important that everyone is informed about this and I am sure diamond way will make it public at some point. But I let everyone make their own opinion about this and judge it with your own criteria.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Outsider
()
Date: March 01, 2009 03:51PM
Frankly that sounds like nonsense and a bit Troll like, the topic here is to identify and discuss DW cult tendancies, methods of manipulation and bring to the surface its real agenda as a cult of personality. I came here looking for objectiveness, so far I have found that but from time to time there has been some distraction (engineered) which smells of cult behaviour.
Perhaps we can continue on the objective line, let me give an Ole quote for digestion; "In DW one needs to break important bonds" in the same speach he goes on to encourage 'respect' for the special qualities and experience of DW teachers, he doesnt refer to Karmapa. Unfortunately this is only available on the members only DW appreciation Blog spot, those who have been close to DW will know this site.
Perhaps we can continue on the objective line, let me give an Ole quote for digestion; "In DW one needs to break important bonds" in the same speach he goes on to encourage 'respect' for the special qualities and experience of DW teachers, he doesnt refer to Karmapa. Unfortunately this is only available on the members only DW appreciation Blog spot, those who have been close to DW will know this site.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 02, 2009 12:19AM
The material quoted here is from a book by Andrew Rawlinson that gives an overview of a new phenomenon--Westerners teaching as enlightened gurus.
The Book of Enlightened Masters:Western Teachers in Eastern Traditions.
The book covers matters only up to 1997. Any concerns should be addressed to Professor Rawlinson.
The list of sources are for editions of books available only at the time the book was written. If new editions of the books have been published a researcher covering this situation will have to consult these and see if they still accord with earlier publications or whether important changes have been made.
Rawlinson gives zero opinion on whether the people in question are using their roles and prerogatives benevolently or non benevolently.
He approaches Western born Enlightened Masters as a social movement and one that was recent at the time of publication. Since then the field has expanded, and some of the persons surveyed by Rawlinson may have introduced doctrinal or social changes to their material and organizations.
If Rawlinson refers to someone as a guru or lama, he does so only because others are naming the person as such.
His article on Ole N is on pages 462--463.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2009 12:33AM by corboy.
The Book of Enlightened Masters:Western Teachers in Eastern Traditions.
The book covers matters only up to 1997. Any concerns should be addressed to Professor Rawlinson.
The list of sources are for editions of books available only at the time the book was written. If new editions of the books have been published a researcher covering this situation will have to consult these and see if they still accord with earlier publications or whether important changes have been made.
Rawlinson gives zero opinion on whether the people in question are using their roles and prerogatives benevolently or non benevolently.
He approaches Western born Enlightened Masters as a social movement and one that was recent at the time of publication. Since then the field has expanded, and some of the persons surveyed by Rawlinson may have introduced doctrinal or social changes to their material and organizations.
If Rawlinson refers to someone as a guru or lama, he does so only because others are naming the person as such.
His article on Ole N is on pages 462--463.
Quote
Lama Ole Nydahl
Ole was born in 1941. I think it is fair to say he has always been a fighter.Quote
(quote) During childhood he had frequent memories from his last life, battling Chinese soldiers to protect the civilians of Eastern Tibet...While growing up he gained quite a reputation as a nearly undefeated boxer adn unflinching protector of his friends.(The Way Things Are, page 77)
Having completed his military service and taken a degree in philosophy at the University of Copenhagen, he decided to go travelling. He had just got married and in 1969 he and his wife, Hannah, went to Kathmandu. One day, they joined a queue of Tibetans and Nepalese waiting to be blessed.Quote
(We) stood in front of the Karmapa and he put his hands on our heads. We looked up, and suddenly he became greater than the whole sky, incredibly vast, golden and luminous...The power of the Karmapa had entered our lives. (Entering the Diamond Way, 65)
(Rawlinson states)'Everything in Ole's subsequent 'career' follows from this last statement.
After spending three years in Nepal, and having become the Karmapa's students, the Nyadhls went back to Denmark, where they opened a centre in Copenhagen--the first Tibetan centre to be established in the West by a Westerner. (Riding the Tiger, 21)
It was inaugerated by the Dalai Lama in 1973, and the Karmapa visited in 1974.
Over the last 24 years--from 1972 to 1996, Ole(helped by Hannah, and more recently, by two students, Caty and Tomek) has opened 180 centres throughout the world (The Way Things Are, 78).
Apart from the places one would expect (America; every Western European country except Portugal; Australia and New Zealand), many have been established in countries that previously had no contact with Tibetan Buddhism at all, especially Eastern Europe (Hungary, Poland, Romania, Serbia, Russia, Ukraine) and Latin America (Mexico, Colombia, Venezuala, Peru).
In 1978, the Karmapa issued a letter "for the attention of all European Dharma centers, especially those in Germany and Scandinavia" saying, "I have re-appointed Ole Nydahl as the Head of the Dharma centres of the Karma Drub Djyling Association1 and I have reappointed Hannah Nydahl as his deputy" (Riding The Tiger, 135)Footnote #1
Ole puts it in his own way:Quote
'We did exactly as (the Karmapa) said: I was to travel as lama and establish centeres in his name. Hannah's job was to help the lineage holders and other Rinpoches from Rumtek. She shoudl organize for them and translate on their tours...She (also) communicated "upwards" and calmed the frequent rumors caused by my yogi style*.(Footnote 2) (Riding the Tiger, page 136)
In 1995, a certificate was issued by the Karmapa's International Headquarters which said that 'Ole Nydahl is a qualified Buddhist layman-teacher or Lama." (Footnote 3)
He himself says that he has a vision (that's his word) of establishing a lay, yogic Buddhism (thats his phrase) that directly shows the nature of the mind. The back cover of The Way Things Are describes the book as "a living transmission of Buddha's deep wisdom, given by a Western Buddhist Master."
This is quite a claim . But (says Rawlinson) Ole justifies it by referring to the Karmapa--or perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'the power of the Karmapa.' According to Chechoo Lama ( who was actually Ole and Hannah's first teacher), the sixteenth Karmapa said (of the two of them) that "they will express my activity in the future" (Riding The Tiger, page 492)
Meanwhile, Ole continues his energetic way.
"(Entering the Diamond Way, page 235)Quote
One day we shall all really recognize the open, clear, limitless space of the mind, and experience the fearlessness, spontaneous joy, and active compassion of all Buddhas. Everything small, limited, and blocked will fall away, and we shal realize our timeless perfection.
(Rawlinson concludes, as of 1996/7)
'It would be misleading to say that he claims to have realized this state. But he is certainly trying.'
Footnotes
(a footnote #1 states this organzation (Karma Drub Djyling Association) oversees all the centres opened by Ole--as of 1996)
*Footnote 2 gives this:
"It is perhaps inevitable that such a style, which he describes as uncompromising, should have its detractors. In 1984, three years after the Karmapa's death, Osel Tenzin (Chogyam Trungpa's Vajra Regent), wrote to Vajradatu members--at Trungpa's request (Rawlinson's italics)--warning them against "a certain Ole Nydahl" who had presented himself at various centres as "an authentic dharma teacher authorized by His Holiness the XVI Karmapa". Ole's "teaching style" is described as 'contrary toe everything we have been taught and have come to recognize as genuine...The Vajradhara (Chogyam Trungpa) feels very strongly that there is so real perversion of the buddhadharma taking place by Mr. Nydahl, and a definite perversion of His Holiness Karmapa's intentions and wishes' (Riding the Tiger, 252-253)
(Rawlinson comments) "This is strong stuff. Ole's response was to do nothing. Although "hundreds of powerful Central Europeans who could each each a dozen Vajra guards before breakfast"and who "felt that their lama had been attacked" were ready to jump on the next plane and sort Osel Tendzin out, he decided to be "a good Buddhist who doesnt take revenge" (Riding the Tiger page 250)
(Rawlinson comments) "This episode was perhaps no more than a storm in a teacup. But it is interesting because it involved two Westerners (Ole and Osel) who wer eobth part of the same Kagyu lineage---though in different ways---and both fully committed to their support of the Karmapa (end of footnote 2)
(Footnote 3)--Rawlinson states) "I should point out that this declaration was made at the height of the current kertuffle concerning the recognition of the 17th Karmapa. (The Sixteenth, who was Oles teacher, died in 1981). There are two rival candidates, one selected by Tai Situ Pa Rinpoche and one by Kunzing Sharmapa Rinpoche. Ole has thrown his weight behind the Sharmapa's candidate; he describes the boy recognized by Tai Situ Pa as 'a fake communist Chinese Candidate' (The Way Things Are., page 78)
Primary Sources:
Ole Nydahl, Ngondro:The Four Foundational Practices of Tibetan Buddhism, Nevada City, California, Blue Dolphin, 1990)
Entering the Diamond Way;My Path Among the Lamas, Blue Dolphin, 1985
Riding the Tiger;Twenty Years on the Road--The Risks and Joys of Bringining Tibetan Buddhism to the West(Blue Dolphin, 1992)
The Way Things Are: A Living Approach to Buddhism for Today's World (Blue Dolphin, 1996)
Secondary Sources
Some remarks in S. Batchelor: The Awakening of the West: The Encounter of Buddhism and Western Culture (London, 1994)
Center: Karma Drub Djy Ling, Svanemollevej, 56, 2100 Copenhagen, O, Denmark
Compare with other entries in Enlightened Masters: (these persons also have articles in Rawlinsons volume, enabling the reader to compare their life trajectories and legitimation strategies)
Other Westerners in Tibetan Buddhism: Freda Bedi, Alexandra David-Neel, W.Y. Evans-Wenz, Lama Angarika Govinda, Jampa Thaye, Lobsang Rampa, Osel Tendzin, Lama Teundrop, (Western)tulkus
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2009 12:33AM by corboy.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
vdesign
()
Date: March 07, 2009 03:02AM
Hi guys,
New to the thread and have a questions.
On the last few pages I only found posts dissecting and damning DW as a cult. Most contributors presenting a different viewpoint have now been banned. Has it now been established (on this thread) that DW is a cult and this is forum for survivors to offer mutual support and try to warn others? Honest question - RR is a cult education forum after all...
See ya.
New to the thread and have a questions.
On the last few pages I only found posts dissecting and damning DW as a cult. Most contributors presenting a different viewpoint have now been banned. Has it now been established (on this thread) that DW is a cult and this is forum for survivors to offer mutual support and try to warn others? Honest question - RR is a cult education forum after all...
See ya.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Emma C
()
Date: March 07, 2009 05:11AM
Quote
vdesign
Hi guys,
New to the thread and have a questions.
On the last few pages I only found posts dissecting and damning DW as a cult. Most contributors presenting a different viewpoint have now been banned. Has it now been established (on this thread) that DW is a cult and this is forum for survivors to offer mutual support and try to warn others? Honest question - RR is a cult education forum after all...
See ya.
As far as I'm concerned, that was established about a year or so ago, but then I am a former member...
The Ole Nydahl groupies posting in this thread were hardly just 'providing a different viewpoint'. They were trying to derail the discussion, intimidate former members, and preach their rubbish! That is why they were banned. They were trying to create an atmosphere in this forum similar to their centres, where any criticism is silenced, and anyone who disagrees is labelled 'mentally ill', 'a criminal', 'spiritually weak', 'disturbed' etc etc.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2009 05:17AM by Emma C.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
vdesign
()
Date: March 07, 2009 05:30AM
Quote
Emma C
As far as I'm concerned, that was established about a year or so ago, but then I am a former member...
The Ole Nydahl groupies posting in this thread were hardly just 'providing a different viewpoint'. They were trying to derail the discussion, intimidate former members, and preach their rubbish! That is why they were banned. They were trying to create an atmosphere in this forum similar to their centres, where any criticism is silenced, and anyone who disagrees is labelled 'mentally ill', 'a criminal', 'spiritually weak', 'disturbed' etc etc.
Thanks Emma.
Is this what everyone else feels? I thought I could contribute to open-minded discussion on DW but if we are past the verdict stage then there is no point...
Cheers
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Emma C
()
Date: March 07, 2009 07:34PM
Quote
vdesign
Thanks Emma.
Is this what everyone else feels? I thought I could contribute to open-minded discussion on DW but if we are past the verdict stage then there is no point...
Cheers
You are welcome to contribute open-minded discussion. That is what this forum is for - to have the open-minded discussions DW would rather we didn't have.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
Outsider
()
Date: March 08, 2009 02:50AM
Objectiveness is what I am looking for here, everywhere from close to home to out here DW seems void of any objective view
[www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 08, 2009 10:59PM
If you want to ascertain whether any group is cultic, start here with Lifton's criteria
[www.culteducation.com]
For a two year long and very informative discussion of DW and Ole by persons in DW there is a 52 page thread that can be read on the e-sangha website after you have registered, which is easy to do and free.
The thread is in the Kagyu fellowship subsection of tibetan Buddhism section
[www.e-sangha.com]
And to get a take on where Outsider and Emma are coming from, read the thread here
from its beginning.
[www.culteducation.com]
For a two year long and very informative discussion of DW and Ole by persons in DW there is a 52 page thread that can be read on the e-sangha website after you have registered, which is easy to do and free.
The thread is in the Kagyu fellowship subsection of tibetan Buddhism section
[www.e-sangha.com]
And to get a take on where Outsider and Emma are coming from, read the thread here
from its beginning.
Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by:
suenam
()
Date: March 09, 2009 01:13PM
i think that we agree that DWB is not one of the more extreme cults. To give an example, the idea that the cult leader has no tolerance for questions or critical inquiry, in Ole Nydahl's case, there is certainly the appearance that one may ask critical questions, however anyone who has actually tried to do so will find that the question is usually sidestepped in a way that reminds one of a politician in a news interview.
I found this quote from Shamar Rinpoche to be quite insightful,
“To need a teacher does not mean that you have to hang onto him like a blind person to his seeing-eye dog…I am talking about people who when they meet the Dharma become extremists and turn into groupies. They run around in tee shirts printed with OM MANI PEME HUNG mantras. They would love to slip into the skin of their teacher. They even try to sound like their teacher, to imitate him in a certain way.”
(http://www.dhagpo-kagyu.org/anglais/science-esprit/chemin/medit/etat_esprit/learning-to-see.htm)
for me, this sums up my experience of DWB. There is a degree of fanaticism which suggests that DW members are devotees of Ole Nydahl rather than practitioners of Buddhism, and this shows in their behaviour. It is not so much that there is any systematic indoctrination or abuse, however the result is something far more insidious and therefore much harder to pinpoint.
This shows itself in a “holier than thou” attitude, and because these members are not really practitioners of Buddhism, there is no real ethical imperative to guide their behaviour. This combination of deluded narcissistic superiority and lack of discipline opens the door to potential abuse with no accountability.
I found this quote from Shamar Rinpoche to be quite insightful,
“To need a teacher does not mean that you have to hang onto him like a blind person to his seeing-eye dog…I am talking about people who when they meet the Dharma become extremists and turn into groupies. They run around in tee shirts printed with OM MANI PEME HUNG mantras. They would love to slip into the skin of their teacher. They even try to sound like their teacher, to imitate him in a certain way.”
(http://www.dhagpo-kagyu.org/anglais/science-esprit/chemin/medit/etat_esprit/learning-to-see.htm)
for me, this sums up my experience of DWB. There is a degree of fanaticism which suggests that DW members are devotees of Ole Nydahl rather than practitioners of Buddhism, and this shows in their behaviour. It is not so much that there is any systematic indoctrination or abuse, however the result is something far more insidious and therefore much harder to pinpoint.
This shows itself in a “holier than thou” attitude, and because these members are not really practitioners of Buddhism, there is no real ethical imperative to guide their behaviour. This combination of deluded narcissistic superiority and lack of discipline opens the door to potential abuse with no accountability.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.