Back to the issue at hand......I think that one of the biggest problems in DW in respect to Ole is that he either has no advisors or doesn't take their counsel (as somebody pointed out). This is common in organizations where the cult of personality has become too predominant. For instance, if Ole had a real advisor, he would probably be telling him to stop dissing Islam, instead, diss radical Islam in general and sharia law in particular. But when he comes out and says stay away from Islam, it is bad, etc., it stirs up a lot of animosity. It is ok to be politically incorrect (refreshing nowadays) but he goes outside the bhudda's camp when he is too general because it creates a lot of ill-will amongst people who happen to be muslims and like their religion. Many, many muslims are averse to radical islam and sharia law. Why alienate those people?

apparently Ole was asked by the Karmapa to stop voicing such views, and he did for a while, although he maintained that he was right. Now he seems to have slipped back into some old habits.

i have heard people defend him by saying that he was right, he did after all warn against the dangers before 9.11, but on the one hand he was stating the obvious, we all knew that there was a threat, and we really didn't need to hear about it in the middle of a talk on Buddhism.

on the other hand, if we consider the future instead of the past, the Dalai Lama has received death threats from some Moslem faction and yet he still does not condone this "up and at 'em" attitude of Ole. It's like Ole really wants to stir things up and have a good fight!

In reference to Islam, Ole has often mentioned the conflict between Buddhism and Islam, and seems to emphasise this more than the current issue with the west. He talks about it as if the "poor innocent Buddhists" have been unfairly victimised by the "evil Islamic Empire", and who should step in to protect them and right the wrongs of the past but "Ole Nydahl, hero to all that is good and pure". next thing you know he'll be wearing a batsuit!

i remembered something a bit strange from when i was in DWB...

it relates to Corboy's question about internalising Ole, but this wasn't through guru yoga.

the question was, how do i progress? what is my aim? or maybe, how do i become a boddhisattva?

the answer given on more than one occassion was, not study (oh no, no, no, very dangerous!), yes one should meditate, but the real key in DWB was to pretend.

it was even said that this school was the "fakers" school, because no one started off knowing how to be a boddhisattva, but if you didn't know you look at the behaviour of someone who did and you copied them.

"modelling" i believe it is called in NLP.

that was how they did it! Ole was at the top, all the older members were modelling him, and us at the bottom, we only saw Ole once a year, but, in the leaders of DW centres, we got someone who had modelled Ole, so we were modelling a model of a model!!!

uh! now i think of that its sort of creepy! no wonder they were all so arrogant and deluded!!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2009 09:25PM by suenam.

Hi Suenam,

I wonder where Ole picked up this idea of "act like a buddha until you become a buddha." Because it certainly seemed to conscuiously or unconsciously be intepreted by many others to mean "model me." Perhaps in ways Ole didn't intend......I don't know. But I knew another spiritual teacher type who said "fake it untill you make it" and it didn't work there either.

The type of "modeling" that has gone on in DW was more like cloning than either mentoring or the type of modeling used to acquire traits and characteristics and skills through studying experts.

certainly, part of the DW modelling includes a degree of "anti-intellectualism",

if you are confused, angry, disturbed etc. then just pretend you're happy.

maybe this explains why DW comes across as a cult.


i think that the idea of modelling can help to improve one's method, but in this case it is being used to fake the end product rather than the means to get there.

that makes it a bit circular and so there is no insight or growth, just denial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 01:21PM by suenam.

that would certainly explain the heavy guilt trips from other DW members, eg. if you start to think for yourself


it also explains why DW "buddhism" is based on emotional belief, which is a corruption of true Buddhism

I have recently seen something very interesting, unfortunately you cannot access this news letter from the DW site without registering so unless you can access a center or the web based news you will have to rely on my brief highlight of what is said by Ole Nydahl:

In short the latest news letter congratulates everyone on achieving what is regarded as the establishment of 600 DW centers. After some general points Ole then goes on to advise the audience that they should; be proud of their achievemnet but be careful who they talk to, what they say and be aware of what they are told both within and wothout the DW group. In addition to this there is a strong suggestion that maybe even Ole is aware that having so many centers can lead to discord, perhaps he is even seeing where control may be lost.

There has been much debate here lately and perhaps some digression from the main thread. I shall however reaffirm what I am seeing going on around me and how manipulation is very cleverly employed by DW to secure funds and members. I have also seen Ole's requirements for a regional retreat center, bear in mind that fund raising for this is restricted to DW members, that stipulates a building and amount of land well beyond the budget of the greater population let alone a DW group made up heavily of students.

Quote
suenam
that would certainly explain the heavy guilt trips from other DW members, eg. if you start to think for yourself

It's ironic isn't it. The cited aims of DW were to create something free of the instutionalized religious trapping of Tibetan Bhuddism and in the end it became its own trap. In the same vein, Ole cites his right to speak his mind freely but in the end that has become a form of thought control in that everyone is expected to think just like him.

There's something to learn from that..........I'm just not quite sure what it is.

Ole himself is idealistic and so attracts students who are also idealistic.

i remember when i first encountered a diamond way buddhist. i was meditating. i had been studying buddhism for around twenty years and had learned different meditation techniques from both buddhism and elsewhere.

at that time is was practising a simple breath meditation (samatha) and i was told by this diamond way student that i was doing it wrong.

this was from someone who was only in their mid 20's and had been practising for a couple of years.

not only was i amazed that they thought that there was only one right way to meditate, they also seemed completely unaware of how controlling they were being in trying to impose their viewpoint on me.

only later i have discovered that this sort of meditation is essential to most buddhist practice, but that in diamond way meditations there is only a brief period of calming meditation (three breaths), and this seems to get skipped by most students. (Shamar Rinpoche of the same lineage recommends a considerably longer period of samatha meditation.)
This way of skipping the preliminaries is echoed in the way Ole teaches Dharma.

i think that what is also echoed among diamond way students is also the idea that there is only one right way to do things, and perhaps more importantly, the kind of mindset which says, if you don't do it right then this is very grave. For me, this bordered on superstition, and i think it may be due to the number of ex-catholics that there were in my diamond way centre, that the notion of karmic cause and effect was seen as some sort of old-school catholic vision, with some sort of supreme being who was watching and keeping account of every "sin".

DW will continue to flourish around the world as long as there are people who feel excited and enamored by Ole's charm and charisma. Ole has indeed found a big market for his brand of teachings. His organization will undoubtedly grow larger, in spite of or maybe even because of his controversial style. After all, who was it that said there is no such thing as bad publicity? There are many, many cult followings in the world. DW is only one. Some cults are wackier than others. Just look at Siddha Yoga for example. For me, DW ranks as a cult because of what I see as an essentially "inward facing" sense of exclusivity. I was puzzled as to why I was not able engage in intellectual discussions with members about Dharma teachings. It became clear to me that there exists a kind of unwritten rule that discourages thoughtful and reflective examination of Dharma. It seems to me that there is an anti-intellectual prejudice that pervades DW. From the DW perspective, being "intellectual" is merely mental gymnastics, and as such is a waste of time. They argue that what one must do is sit, go inward, say the mantra, do the visualization and don't get caught up in the maze of thinking. That by itself and on the surface appears to make sense, especially to people with little or no contextual understanding of the importance of having a theoretically clear foundation to begin with. The fact is that thinking independently and critically is an acquired skill, and is also the main enemy that faces a growing cult. Simply sitting and doing a practice without having a correct view leads to trance states, which although does sometimes create blissful states of mind, is really just more samsara and confusion. This is at least my own limited understanding, but which seems to make sense to me. Ole himself has stated "In the 60's we used LSD, but now we use Buddhism." This is a blatantly ridiculous statement. For me, Buddhist practice is not about getting high or feeling blissed out. It is about nurturing emotional maturity and creating space within one's own mind to allow the qualities of enlightened mind to develop. Once I found a real Tibetan Lama and listened carefully with an open mind and heart, it became extremely apparent to me that I did not belong at DW. As for others, I cannot speak. Each person has to make up thier own mind. If other people become enlightened as a result of Ole's or any other guru's teachings, that is wonderful. But DW just wasn't for me. I do want to say that I have not experienced any harrassment from anyone in DW.