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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Dave ()
Date: February 10, 2009 05:39PM

Corboy

Since you are no moderator in this place;
I like to ask you several question.

What is your purpose to post in this forum?

Do you speak from experience or do you guess only?

If it originates from your personal experience, I like to ask you to show us readers the source of your life experience and make it more transparent.
Especially
Before you start to ask personal questions!

So we can see your post is not coloured by any troll attitude.

Since yesterday you flood this forum with long winded post.

From what I have read, I can see that you have no clue about Tibetan Buddhism and in particular about the Ole Nydahl topic.

But instead you give funny hints about me and suenam which can be interpreted as harassment. Yes reread please!

Your intrusive requests about personal history directed towards new members (like me f. e.) (yesterday) can show me that you try to find some stuff driven by the motivation to lead members to the garden of your (entertainment?) Is your posting a tv show driven by your entertainment needs?
Is this so?

In case this is so I like to point out, you might have fall prey by your selfishness and you (unconsciously?) try to turn this forum to a unsafe place for all those who seek guidance and directions out of the DW sect.
Don't start to involve members into your fancy society game please.

Corboy, others can read you, you skate on thin ice

And one more, since you are no moderator in this place.
Do not play the overseer (police) in this place, who advise people what they are permitted to write and what not. (was yesterday one of several long winded post about the Dharma Debate) Since you answer questions which was original directed to the moderator, maybe you consider yourself almost like a moderator???

So I ask you very friendly, to reconsider your motivations and please reflect before you hit the buttons of your keyboard again!
For the sake of all those who are not Corboy!

Thank you very much for your attention!



Dave



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2009 06:08PM by Dave.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: February 10, 2009 08:14PM

it's not surprising given the history of this thread that there may be some degree of suspicion

i did ask myself what the purpose of Corboy's long posts were, not everyone who reads this is that knowledgeable on the subject, and if Corboy is just playing devil's advocate then at least that keeps us honest

let's not lose our focus

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: February 10, 2009 08:19PM

Corboy, i realised that what i was trying to describe to you could be described as what psychotherapists call "transference"

if you know about object-relations theory then i guess you might understand it better than me.

that's why i'm saying that both the teacher and the students may be caught up in it, and both are responsible for getting out of it.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Dave ()
Date: February 10, 2009 08:32PM

Quote
suenam
on a different tack, when i first heard DW meditations something struck me in the wording

it says that the root Lama, the 16th Karmapa, "is needed for our fast development"

who is in a hurry, i thought. wasn't patience one of the six paramitas. isn't it just an appeal to grasping and self-centredness?

is it the same in other non DWB Kagyu texts?


Suenam and Others

It is obverse that you have no much knowledge about the difference between Mahayana and Vajrayana that is to say, the Tibetan Buddhist, in particular the Kagdyu school and DW.
This is OK.
Do not expect that you or other (outsiders) can understand anything until you may have made real experience on the Dharma path.
Also, it is not advisable to disclose views of higher knowledge and meditation techniques of Mahayana and Vajrayana here.
There is a trend here, that members are fishing more informations from other members about the subject and about personal nature. If you or others go on in the same fashion there is a danger that others feel encouraged they might fall prey to put down Buddhism altogether, fuel for more fire to slander the Buddhist or/and the Tibetan Buddhist path. We are not discussing Buddhism here!
The required informations about Guru Yoga is irrelevant!
If you or others (like Corboy) think you are in need of, in-depth informations, in order to grasp the topic, all what it does with you is, it confuses you more and more you are going carried away at the end.
There is no need to discuss the Root Guru nor do we need to discuss the Guru Yoga from the spiritual point of view. This is no Buddhist forum!

And there is a trend that members who have no, or hardly anything to do with DW, engage into all kind wild speculations and turn this place into a mess.

Please relax and settle down, write from your own experience. Do not feel encouraged to copy the behaviour to engage into al kind of speculations. For the sake of those who seek guidance and help about he Ole Nydahl sect!

Thank you very much!

Dave

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Dave ()
Date: February 10, 2009 08:59PM

Quote
suenam
Corboy, i realised that what i was trying to describe to you could be described as what psychotherapists call "transference"

if you know about object-relations theory then i guess you might understand it better than me.

that's why i'm saying that both the teacher and the students may be caught up in it, and both are responsible for getting out of it.


Do you speak from a pure theoretical approach, or can you connect it with any examples?

If you can not connect it with examples /(life) experience it is fictive, hence, refers to your speculations, and personal opinions. One could also say your phantasy's.

What purpose does a fictive story serve?


Dave


Disclaimer: In case i am wrong the post can serve as example for other cases I read here.

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: February 10, 2009 09:23PM

Dave,

i am trying to speak from my own experience. i do not pretend to be an expert, but i do have some knowledge

i am also limited by language, i cannot transplant my experience directly into your head, so i try to use terms to describe my experience in a way that others might relate to.

for example, the difference between mahayana and vajrayana - you get a different story from each source, as i understand it, mahayana is composed of two paths, sutrayana and vajrayana.
vajrayana is an extension of mahayana, although if you ask DWB they will not tell you that.

i know there is an idea in Vajrayana that one can progress quickly, but that was not really my point. the wider issue is that in introducing this higher level (?) teaching without solid foundations (eg. the precepts, Lamrim texts etc.) that there may be confusion.

Also, anyone mixed up in DWB and considering leaving, or who does not know so much and is considering joining, they will be in exactly the same confusion.

how is it possible to progress in this discussion if we do not increase awareness?

you were the one who suggested a dharma debate, but it seems as if you are the only one here who can do that, that would be just a monologue

surely it is possible for us to contribute despite not being experts?

and surely it is possible to clarify for those whose knowledge may be less than 100%

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Re: Does Diamaondway Teaching Differ From The Karma Kagdyu School Doctrine
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: February 10, 2009 09:46PM

Quote
Dave
Hi
This is my first post in this Ole Nydahl and Diamondway forum.

After reading all previous post (some i skim through) I thought how to deal with the Diamondway phenomenon?
What is it that perturbs us really most?
Is it the person as such, or is it because of Ole Nydahl`s tangential superficial Dharma interpretation?
I go for the last option.

Question for the moderators, is it in accordance with the rules and regulations of this forum, to fathom the difference between Diamondway teachings and Karma Kagdyu doctrine, in order to expose the difference of both interpretations and to validate?
Because Diamondway asserts to teach and practice authentic Karma Kagdyu School doctrine.
I think this is the real crux in the matter.

Thanks a lot!

Dave

P.S. And we have no other means to discuss this with Ole directly in a meaningful way without risking the discussion will be blocked, or opponents will risk to be precluded.


what you wrote here made sense to me, but since then you haven't really filled in the blanks, in fact you seem reluctant to and have tried to stop others from this too.

if there is a tangenital superficial Dharma interpretation then what result does this produce? what are the dangers?

(we don't need an incredibly detailed analysis from years of study, just the broader picture that any beginner can comprehend)

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: Dave ()
Date: February 10, 2009 10:05PM

Sure you can speak about it without being a expert!
Thats what i want.
I don't want see much insider discussion about Guru Yoga, Root Guru f. e. Because its not possible to explain you without the risk that things are misconstrued at the end!

There was / or is a atmosphere of sensation mongering in this forum, Corboy did speculate about all kinds of things, (also about you and me to draw informations from us?) which is off topic in my opinion. And it sounds for me like a game?
And partly you got into it. So, why you go into it......

You see, the identity is easily disclosed by sounding a person.(Corboy)

I feel there was the need to get things back on track.
Especially after Corboys speculations about my identity or my experiences, in his one or two long winded post. (fishy post)

I mean, what is going on at the moment, makes me feel surprise. To express it politely.

If you have experience why do you need to generalise instead to come to the point?

So i feel that people have to be honest first in order that others can feel safe in the forum.


Dave

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Re: Does Diamaondway Teaching Differ From The Karma Kagdyu School Doctrine
Posted by: Dave ()
Date: February 10, 2009 10:28PM

Quote
suenam


what you wrote here made sense to me, but since then you haven't really filled in the blanks, in fact you seem reluctant to and have tried to stop others from this too.

if there is a tangenital superficial Dharma interpretation then what result does this produce? what are the dangers?

(we don't need an incredibly detailed analysis from years of study, just the broader picture that any beginner can comprehend)


This is a roundabout pattern similar I have seen with Corboy

Come on man, now it was my fault?

Be honest and speak from your experience.

Are you and Corboy the same identity?
Anyway, its not important. now.

Sure this is what makes me feel strange in this forum.
I feel we have Troll's in the forum who use it for their private games. (Always forth and backwards)

I think I will not invest more time contribute more post in this forum.

Thank you very much for all of your efforts.


Dave

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Re: Ole Nydahl and Diamond Way Buddhism
Posted by: suenam ()
Date: February 10, 2009 10:35PM

maybe, i'm just not getting what you mean. there is a limit to how specific i want to get for obvious reasons, but i have tried to be specific, both about my experiences and my knowledge of DWB practices and doctrines.

i'm not saying that anything is your fault Dave, you do seem to be more knowledgable on this topic than the rest of us, yet you seem reluctant to disclose this knowledge.

i'm sharing my experiences, and yes, my thoughts (speculations) about what i have experienced.

i've heard what you think about our posts, but i would very much like to hear what you have to say about DWB.

maybe you could lead by example.

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