OleNydahlIsAFraud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OleNydahlDiamondWayCult Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> is
> > this person brave or stupid?
> >
> [www.youtube.com]
>
> Brave. I hope you haven't just exposed them to
> Diamond Way's harassment.


There is now another video from them here [www.youtube.com]

I think she was brave though I would wish that she would have been clearer in some points, I found it a bit confusing. ( f.e. I never experienced that we should/ would use the refuge name - and the other tibetan words for meditation room might sound strange but did not make the cult feeling for me.)
I do not think you find much Dharma in DW centres- how could you? The leading people there have no special education in the dharma. It is all about imitating O.N. personal interests and his „ homemade“ ideas about buddhism.Traveling teachers are nothing but incarnated audible books of O.N. Publications. Some of them are treated like celebraties- I never understood for what.

And anyone how doubt the O.N. Cult will be removed or „made go“. Thats cultish behaviour for me.

I have a few questions that bother me:

Was Karmapa asked if O.N. now conveys "crazy wisdom" or if he is simply seriously ill. ?

Is the future of the group only discussed in secret?

What does "free speech" mean if you don't dare to address the taboos because you are immediately bullied?
There is an interesting train of thought: "Truth is not afraid of questions, but lies are afraid of questions"

What does the Karmapa think about the grotesque books by O.N. and the incompetent parrots that he himself calls "skilled" traveling teachers?

How does the sangha analyze their behavior over the years?
Nobody has O.N. slowed down and asked to sleep more. Lack of sleep is pure poison for the brain and body.
All students worldwide were and are eager to see him, he ran around, everyone was impressed by his power and didn't dare to contradict his desire to be hectic (absurd "fast life !!" and "be useful !!" ).

I have the impression that the Sangha is very egotistical, always greedy for blessings and yet making no progress: the executions of other religions are laughed at without hesitation. Lies, manipulations and aggression against outsiders and within the sangha are trivialized.
They work hard and donate massive amounts of money to the centers to improve their karma instead of taking the Paramitas seriously.
As I understand the dharma, supporting the sangha is just a sideline: the central point is the paramitas. Interesting the O.N. has preached this side issue as central.

I think the venerable teachers should talk straight to this confused group and give them meaningful homework so that they become a little more honest, relaxed and loving.

This spiritually confused little fringe in the history of Buddhism has cost me so much of my lifetime... I regret every moment there..


P.S. Unfortunately, I couldn't understand the courageous woman's videos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2023 11:20PM by letif.

I would be surprised if any of the tibetan teachers would clear things or adress grievances in the DW.I do not believe that they will get involved, they let things „naturally“work out.

I lost my trust in tibetan buddhism, I do not believe that they are here to „ help“ westerners. They are looking for possibilites to settle here in the west, they are refugees. It is a massive organisation that tries to survive, it reminds me more and more of the catholic church.

Yes, it cost me a lot of lifetime too, and that makes me sad and angry. It is not done when you leave, it takes severe deprogramming. I found a good trauma therapist who helps me a lot.

I think it is in order to clarify some misunderstandings regarding Tibetan Buddhism in general and Diamondway in particular.

Tibetan Buddhism although having a hierarchy does not function under the same hierarchical system as say Catholic church. In Catholic church if there is a problematic priest, the hierarch of higher order can remove such priest from his position and there are legal grounds for such removal. This is not so in Tibetan Buddhism. The hierarchy in Tibetan Buddhism is in general only nominal and has no legal bearing. So the senior lamas of this or that branch of Tibetan Buddhism have no power over particular rouge lamas.

In the same vein, there is a widespread misunderstanding that Dalai lama is the head of Tibetan Buddhism. Therefore it follows (according to this view) that the Dalai lama should remove problematic lamas from their posts. However in reality Dalai lama is hierarch only within his particular branch - Gelugpa and even there he is not in the highest rank, that rank belongs to Ganden Tri Rinpoche. Dalai lama at present is merely a representative of Tibet in exile, which amounts - from a legal perspective - to basically nothing. For example Dalai lama could not remove Sogyal Lakar known as Sogyal Rinpoche from his post, even if Dalai lama wished to do so. Firstly Sogyal Lakar was associated with Nyingma tradition a school (more or less) entirely out of Dalai lama's spiritual authority, secondly Sogyal Lakar was a resident of France and not of Tibet (which is currently under control of China, as we know), so again there would be no way for Dalai lama to remove Sogyal Lakar from his position.

Now to apply this to Ole Nydahl's organization. Although DW associates itself with Karma Kagyu lineage, Karma Kagyu lineage itself is merely a spiritual category and has no legal definition or grounds. From a legal standpoint Karma Kagyu is merely a "nickname". This said, there is a legal body that could be pointed out for Karma Kagyu and this legal body is Karmapa Charitable trust. However Diamondway is in no legal way associated with Karmapa Charitable trust. Diamondway has its own legal body which is called Diamantweg Dachverbrand. Karmapa Thaye Dorje is listed with this organization as a spiritual mentor, a post which is not defined in any detailed way in the statutes of the organization nor has it any legal power within the organization. So here Karmapa has no legal power to remove Ole.

Could Karmapa denounce Ole and his handlers in a public way? Yes he could do that, but that would only result in a defamation lawsuit against Karmapa from the side of Diamondway. So in the light of this - does it matter what Karmapa might think about Ole in his private position? No, it does not matter. Even if Karmapa's private position was that Ole is a fraud and that Ole's books are a bunch of nonsense, Karmapa could not express this idea in public venue and it would not have any positive impact on Diamondway if he did so. The only result of such action would be that Ole's followers would drag their carts around Ole and go on the offense.

According to my sources several senior Lamas of Karma Kagyu lineage are well aware of the situation in the Diamondway, but the only thing they can and are willing to do is to use "soft power" influence (or we could say a diplomatic approach) and bide their time until Ole passes away. After Ole's passing there is an idea that such and such Rinpoche (I heard several names fly around) would take over Diamondway, but this idea again has no legal standing. So what happens with DW, after passing of Ole, depends entirely on its managerial board and on the willingness of members of various DW centers to remain in the organization.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2023 01:12AM by Kawa Lhundrub.

Thank you 7 of 108 and Kawa Lhundrub for your replies. They are very interesting.

And yes, therapy is very important afterwards. I got help too.

Sometimes I thought how bad karma I have that I ended up in such a confused absurd sangha. I got totally confused by the silly gossip and bullying.
I had strong s.ui.ci.d.al thoughts several times. Have heard of two people who committed su.i.c.i.de, of course they were later described as immature.
I'm fine now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2023 01:34AM by letif.

These are really interesting information, thank you Kawa Lhundrub. I wish, I would have known this 20 yrs ago. I thought that the appearance of the tibetan rinpoches on DW courses were a recognition of O.N.‘s spiritual authority.

Letif, good to hear that you are better now! I am so sorry to hear about these two people. The Nydahlists are cold as stone: „ Highest truth is highest bliss“ and the rest does not matter to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2023 02:31AM by 7 of 108.

Thank you 7 of 108 for your words.

A little bit more about karma.

There is karma and it is very complicated.
It's good to know that it exists, but constantly analyzing every situation is completely stupid and confusing.

It is a secondary matter for everyday life, in everyday life the paramitas are central. And interesting the O.N. again a minor matter preaches as central...that's what incompetence looks like.

"It is a secondary matter for everyday life, in everyday life the paramitas are central. And interesting the O.N. again a minor matter preaches as central...that's what incompetence looks like" I'm not sure Letif what do you mean by that.We have this forum to warn other people and talk about ON cult.
It's also a place where victims of this cult can speak out and get some support as well. Paramitas and karma are the basics of Buddhist practice but down here we talk other stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2023 06:46PM by Mary Lou.

"It is a secondary matter for everyday life, in everyday life the paramitas are central. And interesting the O.N. again a minor matter preaches as central...that's what incompetence looks like" I'm not sure Letif what do you mean by that.We have this forum to warn other people and talk about ON cult.
It's also a place where victims of this cult can speak out and get some support as well. Paramitas and karma are the basics of Buddhist practice but down here we talk other stuff.