of cause there will be trolls in this forum . there are so many Ole's "troops" who will try to " troll" it. However I did not see any "trolling" in chiall's posts, hence the question to stoic what upset him/her so much. May be stoic knows something about Dublin DW centre what I don't that is my question.
To chiall
I don't post anonymously they know who is Darius in London Centre, I am not afraid because I have nothing to hide . I main interest to post in this forum is to understand one thing was I involved in the cult and how I managed to not see that. Now I am pretty sure that I was . As I said before. in my opinion DW is a Lama Ole cult within Karma Kagyu school of thought. Why Karmapa says nothing I have no clue .there must be some reasons. My wild guess is there are some political/financial reasons .
Through my experience with DW and this forum I realised few things; Tibetan Buddhism is not that easy as it seems in a sense that there are so many politics involved which in no interest for me. In buddhism I look for answers to important questions. I can not say that I had bad experience with DW . it tought me few things one ,it tought me that I have to be critical with any organised group of people be it religious atheist or political.Two it gave me understanding that all tantric Buddhism is not for me I rather stick to what Buddha Shakyamuni really thought Four Noble Truths I don't think we need more than that , all the recarnation stuff difficult to check or remember for that matter.

Welcome to the club yourself, Mysstyk

I'm not fond of cheap ploys myself either--dirty stuff-- like low blows.

Hello everyone, I would like to share some of my experiences with the diamondway meditation group.

I spended time going to the meditation group regularely from 1998 to 2009.

What make me quit is those reasons.

1- They try to discourage people to go see other lamas from other lineages or from the other kagyu lineage thus showing comon points with cultish behavior of some sects.

2- They do no practice much compassion nor loving kindness. wich is one of the most teaching of the Buddha.

I remember one time Ole'girlfriend Cathy Hartung shouting at me wildly at the airport because i did not help enough to unload the car full of luggages when 10 people where already helping them. and them keep complaining in german about how i was going to disturb them in the plane if i sit next to them.

One time also Tomek the secretary of Ole kicked a plastic water glass in my face while i was sitting down in the floor and when he noticed he just passed his way without saying at least sorry or something.

The people of the center i belonged where mainly spanish language speakers and always where speaking in spanish almost all the time thus making me ostracised from them.

The people from the center seemed to not like much the people from the country they are in (Canada), especially the french-canadian ones.

One time i remember we went to see Ole in Toronto and then when we came back to Montreal the driver dropped me at a metro station at 2 am in the night cuz he said he didnt want to drive me back home. The metro where closed and i had to take a taxi back home.

Another time we also went to see Ole in Toronto and in the car the 2 others person spoke all the time in another language without saying a word to me.

These are just examples of behaviors among so many that i experiences while in this group



3- Like a lot of Vajrayana centers they are really high on money and if you cant afford to give a donation or pay the price for the events they organise or the meditation sessions you may get denied entrance or they will make you feel bad about it or let you in while telling you that you owe them money that needs to be repaid later.

4- I must admit also that the 2 karmapas thing bothers me. I find the attitude and the behaviors of many really childish and not really mature for high realised beings....getting in 2 separate gangs , fomenting violence (i saw a video of monks attacking Karmapa thaye dorje's monastery). The people of one gang dont go to teachers from the another, and vice versa..... Even the 2 karmapas dont do anything to stop this thing.

Me i dont see any problems with 2 karmapas and i accepted boths...

5- About Ole i have almost nothing to say....i still find some of his teachings and advices really valuable. His politic views and personal opinions not so tho. The problem is the people who take everything he say to the letter...thats the danger he should be more awared of. Not everybody that goes to diamondway centers are paused and reflected who can think for themselves.

Quote
Jakim Boaz
2- They do no practice much compassion nor loving kindness. wich is one of the most teaching of the Buddha.

Hi, Jakim, welcome to the forum.
These are qualities I look for in a lama and a Buddhist center, along with ethics. These are key qualities. If we use these as our criteria, we will find that very few teachers in Tibetan Buddhism measure up. And as you say, independent thinking on the part of the members of the center is important, also.

This item may explain why Tibetanism produces such dreadful lamas and so very many aggressive trolls--literally bringing out the worst in too many already greed/angry people.

Quote

http://www.nous.org.uk/Nakamura.html

Quote

In the part on Tibet, Nakamura has many interesting things to report about local variations on Buddhist themes:

"A unique and important characteristic of Lamaism, which distinguishes it from other schools of Buddhism, is that the living lama is more highly revered than the Buddha or the Dharma." (p.317)

(Corboy underlining for emphasis)

(one sentence deleted)

"When one sticks to the standpoint of esteeming the theological sytem of Lamaism as the absolute one, one comes to hate those who are opposed to it and to regard them as enemies. (underlining for emphasis)

Hgos-khri-bzan, being a Buddhist, buried his opponents alive. Even in recent times there were terrible jails attached to monasteries, and there tortures were inflicted." (p.326)

And online--this manufactures trolls.


From WAYS OF THINKING OF EASTERN PEOPLES
India, China, Tibet, Japan

Hajime Nakamura Kegan Paul, London, 1964, 1997.

This bit is from Lama Ole's new years letter . Does anyone know what did he mean?

A point that has brought increasing questions is the modern pedagogical techniques that have been applied in some of our centers: can they be used without compromising our Buddhist view? Such methods come from management training and coaching, and are geared towards clarifying and directing group processes. As such teachings have no ultimate goal or view, people with the usual dualistic religions or mindsets find them pleasantly neutral and easy to work with, and they can indeed be very practical.

Hello guys,

Here is ole new year letter for the cult. If you can read between the lines you can pick the elements for the cult organisation. And all the grammar mistakes. Shame he should send it to someone to check it before - but hey he is too big headed to do that.

Dearest Diamond Way students and friends,
Again in 2011, every travel and overview shows real growth in the numbers and activities of our Buddhist centers and their members in spiritually free countries worldwide.
Standing together and guided by the blessing of our unbroken transmission through 900 years of the Karmapas and Shamarpas, as well as today’s lamas and students protecting and representing them, we are bringing ultimate meaning and timeless methods towards realization to ever more karmically gifted minds.
As one can do nothing better for others than help them find access to their potential, we have every reason to be glad, and every meditation and mantra increases the effect.
If we are not able to make oil out of gas yet, however, or sell our water at a corresponding price, during the next years our direction will have to change. It will be wise for us to follow the general advice given to our societies and make our existing centers debt-free. Until the right conditions manifest, we will aim to rent new centers rather than buy them.
Your unbelievable generosity already makes it possible to complete our vision for the Europe Center, and when the EC is functioning to capacity, that will massively enrich our work and support the building of other centers everywhere, continuing our well-working strategy until now.
The collective feast of creating the EC shows, for the second time in history, our strength, trust and idealistic friendship. Working in the same style, our pillars of activity already standing will now find the inspiration to build our existing centers, always focused on Diamond Way teachings and meditation.
A point that has brought increasing questions is the modern pedagogical techniques that have been applied in some of our centers: can they be used without compromising our Buddhist view? Such methods come from management training and coaching, and are geared towards clarifying and directing group processes. As such teachings have no ultimate goal or view, people with the usual dualistic religions or mindsets find them pleasantly neutral and easy to work with, and they can indeed be very practical.
-1 -
Buddhists, however, should not place such methods among our tools for developing compassionate motivation or obtaining a pure view. They are practical problem-solvers and do not aim beyond this life or towards any timeless realization. My close students teaching management techniques know the above distinctions. They use their skills well and where they belong. As it is, however, already difficult for many new Buddhists to hold Buddha’s highest view above the heavily dualistic concepts of today’s society, being given a third possibility, which lacks any factor of transcendence, often proves too much to handle - and that causes confusion, especially when given in a gompa, where people expect Buddhist methods and blessings.
Diamond Way Buddhism works from the Mandala Principle, where one’s function naturally defines one’s position. Whoever is needed, is in front. This differs from hierarchal systems, which are basically unstable and soon become empty, showy, cramped or contradictory, or provoke revolutions. They are best used for somebody to earn a lot of money quickly and then disappear with blue glasses and a false beard (my joke).
It is therefore wise to keep basically different approaches separate – also because worldly knowledge changes all the time, while dharmic insights stay. When problems or new opportunities arise, everything anyway depends on our motivation and ability to let go of fixed ideas. Applying relevant levels of Buddha’s teachings is what we need for ourselves.
And finally a question much asked: what can we expect materially from the next year(s)?
We all live from the fact that people want to consume and most will work to see their wishes fulfilled. Also, a majority of Westerners are educated, feel increasingly responsible towards their values, and, at least among the original citizens, the karma is so far basically good. Let us hope that if ordinary distractions and consumption must temporarily diminish, more will look for lasting happiness – and at the place where it exists: in one’s own mind.
May all events during 2012 and on give our fine and well-trained Diamond Way centers and friends the opportunity to benefit countless interesting and maturing people. We have the experience, view and methods to do that, so please refresh both your knowledge and your skills to represent us in the best possible way. This means keeping up on our roots, books, and transmission, and offering the example of our worldwide work: standing shoulder to shoulder we have no limits...
With love and thankfulness also from Caty and Gergö, Yours,
We are making history.
-2 -

A new blog I found recently [diamondwaytruths.blogspot.com]

Quote

Standing together and guided by the blessing of our unbroken transmission through 900 years of the Karmapas and Shamarpas, as well as today’s lamas and students protecting and representing them, we are bringing ultimate meaning and timeless methods towards realization to ever more karmically gifted minds.

This sounds a little like the elitism I grew tired of, by mentioning ‘karmically gifted minds’ he is singling out HIS followers as being the gifted ones. His ‘flock’ will read this and understand that they are ‘karmically gifted’ and so fuel the ego and give the organization an over inflated sense of its importance. I get the impression from this statement that practitioners outside DWB are not ‘karmically gifted’.

Quote

If we are not able to make oil out of gas yet, however, or sell our water at a corresponding price, during the next years our direction will have to change. It will be wise for us to follow the general advice given to our societies and make our existing centers debt-free. Until the right conditions manifest, we will aim to rent new centers rather than buy them.

I have no idea what he’s rambling on about here. I guess it’s a reference to the Eurozone crisis. Is he trying to say DWB’s wealth will stagnate until such a time as Westerners can sell water for the same price as oil? Is he afraid of having properties re-possessed which is why he’s talking about renting rather than having students buying property for DWB?

Quote

A point that has brought increasing questions is the modern pedagogical techniques that have been applied in some of our centers: can they be used without compromising our Buddhist view? Such methods come from management training and coaching, and are geared towards clarifying and directing group processes. As such teachings have no ultimate goal or view, people with the usual dualistic religions or mindsets find them pleasantly neutral and easy to work with, and they can indeed be very practical.

Pedagogy is related to the method and practice of teaching particularly as an academic subject or theoretical concept. I get the sense from this that he isn’t happy that some of his centres are treating Buddhism as an academic subject. I kind of understand his point to a degree that the teachings do transcend theoretic approaches but I wonder if this is an attempt to steer the centres to a more ‘bells and smells’ mystical approach where people accept the teachings on trust rather than investigation and reflection. Sounds like another belief system if this is the case.

Quote

Buddhists, however, should not place such methods among our tools for developing compassionate motivation or obtaining a pure view.

I kind of agree. An academic or theoretical approach without putting the teachings into practice has little value but to dismiss theoretical or academic study of Buddhism he appears to want to induce a ‘feel good factor’ where students won’t ask why they are doing certain practices and practice in a blissful ignorance. Does he not want his students to develop an in-depth understanding from which they can challenge his version of the Dharma? If this is the case then he doesn’t want to make his students independent. I always understood that a good teacher never holds the students development back. Wasn’t it the Buddha himself who said he kept nothing from his students which would benefit them?

Quote

As it is, however, already difficult for many new Buddhists to hold Buddha’s highest view above the heavily dualistic concepts of today’s society, being given a third possibility, which lacks any factor of transcendence, often proves too much to handle - and that causes confusion, especially when given in a gompa, where people expect Buddhist methods and blessings.

Actually, I expected instruction, open debate and study in addition to methods and blessings … but this was probably why I wasn’t welcome. I wanted to know who said it, why they said it and who decided they were an authority to say it.

Quote

Diamond Way Buddhism works from the Mandala Principle, where one’s function naturally defines one’s position. Whoever is needed, is in front. This differs from hierarchal systems, which are basically unstable and soon become empty, showy, cramped or contradictory, or provoke revolutions. They are best used for somebody to earn a lot of money quickly and then disappear with blue glasses and a false beard (my joke).

He’s basically described DWB in nutshell with this paragraph. I don’t know who the people with blue glasses and false beards are.

Quote

And finally a question much asked: what can we expect materially from the next year(s)?
We all live from the fact that people want to consume and most will work to see their wishes fulfilled. Also, a majority of Westerners are educated, feel increasingly responsible towards their values, and, at least among the original citizens, the karma is so far basically good.

“… at least among the original citizens …” I can only assume this is a veiled attack on migrants from outside “The West”. I guess it’s coded so that those followers who agree with his ideas understand that this is a reference to Africa and the Middle-East.

Quote

May all events during 2012 and on give our fine and well-trained Diamond Way centers and friends the opportunity to benefit countless interesting and maturing people. We have the experience, view and methods to do that, so please refresh both your knowledge and your skills to represent us in the best possible way. This means keeping up on our roots, books, and transmission, and offering the example of our worldwide work: standing shoulder to shoulder we have no limits...

I understand this as meaning “read the stories of the lineage, accept the mystical stuff and miracles” while avoiding academic and theoretical study as outlined above.

It's the usual rambling fodder for the brainwashed faithfull he would churn out every year.

Steve