I have had some time to reflect upon the dynamics of abuse.
Spiritual abuse is a much deeper wound than material.
And ultimately abuse is meant to bring us down to the lower self.
You start harboring all kinds of feelings within and at one point you will even become an abuser yourself.
After I left this forum, I tried my best to find a way to delete all my posts here.
Because when I posted here, I had lost a good portion of control over my psyhe.
Opening the doors of the subconscious mind is quite tricky.
Ultimately noone enters this material jungle with a 10000000000 pages guideline.
But we enter this realm with 200 different scriptures that teach us how to worship the 200 different deities and how to be a very good person.
How to be humble and kind so that others can screw you over an lord over you.
But no guideline as to how to navigate the jungle. They just teach you how to take the punches with humility.
Many people who enter cultic situations do very well.
They have amazing boundaries and self confidence.
And many stay regardless feeling like shit because they love the path too much or have nothing else left in life.
They keep chanting more and more to put a bandaid on their feelings and red flags. Pretend that all they feel is false ego and their mind playing tricks in them.
They may end up with a cancer, chronic illnesses or at worse end their lives.
I took revenge in my own hands and it made me feel powerful and in control.
But now I get it that it is the weakest I have ever been in my entire life.
This is when the abuse and abusers had the most control over me.
I let that shit turn me into the asshole of the century. And this is the goal. To contaminate souls and corrupt them.
Abusers are used to destroy souls and this hapoens all the time to millions of souls on the planet.
The abuse can come from your own parents, sibblings, strangers, spiritual groups….
It is rare to find the souls who can go beyond abuse without getting affected.
I truly have the outmost respect for such unique stength.
Playing the avenger after playing the victim has truly served no purpose.
As a person who is rather an empath, I do not enjoy hurting others in any way.
The truth is that this reality is way more complex than we can imagine.
A person like butler is controlled via his psyche and I doubt he even sees how messed he is.
And the followers are too blinded by bliss and their purification to see what is up.
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
And butler is the one eyed guru that the blind see as god on earth.
In the land of the spiritual beggars, krishna consciousness is like an oasis.
And even if the water you drink is filled with parasites, you will think it is better than dying of thirst.
I do not forgive the demons that operate via the abusers as well as my own inner demons.
Ultimately one must take ownership of both allowing abuse to happen and abusiing others.
Yes, these forces are very strong. Noone can ever imagine how forces of evil are. powerful.
Until you wake up to this reality and are given the vision to see.
Tru power is to neither get influenced by these forces nor to let others crush you via these forces.
butler is not a master. He is the slave of his mind.
His followers will never truly attain self realizations because he is not self realized.
They are in an illusion that they have hit the jackpot while they have been sold an imitation guru and an imitation bhakti yoga.
Leaving an abusive situation is not enough. Finding peace with all that we have endured, is when we truly win the battle.
We all have free will or the illusion of free will.
The hardest thing is to decide how we use our free will.
SoI is like the social credit system where your free will is manipulated.
You will never grow truly because others tell you how to act or else you get kicked out unless you are the kid of some well respected disciple.
Ultiately no matter what Effing fate throw at us, we can decide how to respond to the pain.
Letting others and situations take away our peace, pollute our hearts and mind is a personal choice.
What butler does to devotees is unacceptable, but they have embarced their slavery.
Free will.
I had never taken revenge in my entire life. And now I see that it is a bitter poison that is truly not compatible with my essence.
I know that the sacrs of abuse will never fade away but I will deal with it in a different way.
Ultimately one must take ownership. And it is only through that personal responsibility that we can free ourselves.
We are the masters of our inner world while we have no control over others and situations.
Keep up the good work of helping others free themswleves from the cult. I have great respect for all of you and great appreciation.
To care about others who suffer is the ultimate sacrifice.

BREAKING NEWS! After much deep research and study, scientists have finally discovered what the hare krishna mantra is good for. Putting your ass to sleep!

[www.thehindubusinessline.com]

In other news, all Butler's followers abandoned him and he is now working at Kailua KFC while living out of his car.

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And ultimately abuse is meant to bring us down to
> the lower self.

so-called subconscious or shadow zone. Mathematically - solutions of neural network dynamics along the second implicit function. Energy and consciousness in sleep after being cut off from the brainstem.


> Many people who enter cultic situations do very
> well.
> They have amazing boundaries and self confidence.

It's rather easy to explain. Already at the basic sales training, there is talk about the basic division of personality into extroverted, intraverted, emotional dominance and intellect dominance. Women are supposed to be emotionally dominant. An additional element is Ayurvedic kapha, pita, vata. What does this mean in a sect.

In the situation of introduction of initiation (distinguished caste) - the best sect, the only organization of exclusive salvation - it should strengthen the less reflective personalities. In sales courses, it is said that people with athletic colleges, well-built stocky bodies - grounded - achieve better sales success. Natural legitimate interest. In turn, vata personalities, high in the clouds, with a disturbed sense of value, a disturbed base chakra - will assume the role of martyrs. They will deny themselves everything. The offer of salvation - is also interesting. Their victims. They have finally received their victims of material self-flagellation.


If you look at, for example, the photos published on Polish FB profiles exposing the cult, you can see the same scenes of personality behavior as from the 1990s.

For example, the relationship of Marici and Tapasya das. Marici approaches Tapasya das with a provocative message by default and in the photo Tapasya das expresses disapproval, is pissed off, etc. This photo is from around 2010. The same fun was in the 90s.

Nothing changes. group dynamics. The question is whether Marici had already been initiated at that time.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BREAKING NEWS! After much deep research and study,
> scientists have finally discovered what the hare
> krishna mantra is good for. Putting your ass to
> sleep!
>
> [www.thehindubusinessline.com]
>

My personal experience was, that infact daily chanting made me fall asleep. It deprived my sleep later, but in a day - put me in a battle mode ("Rama" or "Hanumana").

QNET-reactivation.

[timesofindia.indiatimes.com]

30 of march, 2023

Quote

ED Hyderabad unit freezes Rs 137 crore of Vihaan in QNet MLM ..

The building of Swapnalok in Secunderabad which housed a QNet office burned down. There are fatalities. Possible deliberate arson to get rid of witnesses and documentation. This is probably the beginning of the end for QNET.

The Krishnas, from the time of Bhaktivinode and throughout history have a typical cult mentality of feeling they are above the law. They feel that the rules do not apply to them. Prabhupada wanted to build varnashram farm communities. The major experiments of that in the US, Canada, Europe, India, South America etc all failed and broke laws.

You can say that Butler's own cult started in the same way. Breaking laws, making offenses and all-around bullshitery.

All things go in cycles.

[www.heraldscotland.com]

Now, for the purpose of letting things simmer down and not attract unwanted press, they are controlling themselves. But just give it some time. Look at Tulsi. She went from authoritarian dictator-like republican policies masquerading as "liberal" and "conservative progressive" to now, much to no ones surprise, back to the original MO. Her guru's MO. Bhaktivedantas MO. Bhaktisiddhantas MO. You can say that "love" is their MO. But this is a typical psychopathic charm at work. The ability to control the narrative, push your agenda and control people on the premises of "love" is an all-time favorite cult tactic.

Anything that feels off in these cults is immediately posited as "dovetailing" with the wish of god, the wish of guru, some obscure scriptural verses etc. But mostly it is doing the bidding of one man. Butler for SIF, and other gurus.

How is that? How do thinking people fall for a guy like Butler. Anyone who would see this man walking down the street (something he will not do without a bodyguard and dressed from head to toe in covering) you would think he is a nut job. But put him on a fancy chair dressed in flower leis and white clothing, he is all of a sudden transformed to the level of divinity in the eyes and minds of his blind followers. They will doubt any instinct they have to run and abandon all critical thinking to believe in total nonsense ideology and dogma.

As a child I ate this stuff up. As a youth, I had my doubts but kept at it and considered that I must be a total demon for ever doubting it. As an adult and now, I MARVEL that I had ever fallen for any of it. I am astounded that it had such deep hooks in me.

Cultthusiast, I know where you are coming from about your attraction to guna/karma and some of the Samkhya philosophy in Vaishnavism. This is all amalgamation and usurped into the larger "vedic" cannon and eventually puranic Vaishnavism (https://www.jstor.org/stable/44148078), but by no means has any origins in a blue god playboy god named krshna. In fact in general Guna theory and karma and so forth are concepts available in most philosophical traditions since the dawn of time. As soon as man became more thoughtful about himself and the universe, there was some visible assessment that life is governed by assorted forces of nature and psychological states. Categorical and organized philosophical systems were no doubt evolved and created by amazing minds. But I can 100% assure you they were men, human, flawed and often in no more better shape than you or I as far as unraveling the puzzle of life. If you read between the lines of the Puranas, many of the myths actually highlight this one FACT over and over: Humans, gods and all you comprehend are flawed and there is no one, right answer to understanding it all. I think "absolutism" in Vaishnava ideology became a response to Christian ideology/perfectionism and purism. Even the creation of focal deities (out with the old gods, in with the new top dog in town) was something that started to evolve more in puranic vaishnvaism around the time of Christian influence around the world. Before that, human's had no concern or desire for a single focal "god". Nature was their gods and went by many names. Humans were comfortable wit this type of primal spirituality and sense of unity and connection with life for thousands of years before they toppled Indra, Agni, Vayu and Vishnu in favor of monotheism. Which in turn gave rise to city-states and kingdoms (dictatorships) under the rule of one social group (brahmanis) and a kind that was treated and accepted as "god on earth". This model of ruling and creating social order and civilization was a natural product of population increase and evolution in human consciousness. The more autocratic the human mind, the more variables, wild-cards. The solution? Allegiance to one banner and mode of thinking. Anyone who disagrees with us, "BAM!", as Prabhupada fantasized about the future of Hare Krishna's killing the "Mudhas"...

It's a testament to the follower mentality and lack of democratic and tolerant thinking to suggest that humanity's problems will be solved by chanting one mantra and following one ideology. Talk about being narrow-minded and closed-minded.

As I have always said, it is fine and dandy to preach "I am not the body", but this largely has zero functional value in life, while sounding great on paper. Think about it. The body you have is what provides the very structure of a brain that can process language—something that requires a brain, tongue, mouth and ears to harness. So abstractly thinking of yourself as a "spirit soul" (whatever the fuck that even means) has no real bearing on anything within your rational and functional scope of true realization. You can only realize something if you have a brain, a physical body. You would not even comprehend a single fancy spiritual ideology without your body and mind. To say that a "spirit soul" has the faculty of thought, mental processes, etc, means that such a supposed "transcendent" element has the physical capacity, effectively making it nothing transcendent at all, but simply a figment of imagination. That life "leaves" a body upon death is nothing more than the breakdown of an organic system. You know, until fucking proven otherwise. And I have to tell you, if indeed there is a spirit soul/god/absolute truth, in some million years of human evolution we have not found an iota of proof for it. So while it may be nice to contemplate the mechanics of guna theory and higher/lower self, subtle bodies, souls and god, the fact remains, it has little to no functional value.

What does have functional value is that we are here, right now, and we have a planet, body, friends and family that all function squarely within this field of experience. Anyone claiming a transcendent experience is, to put it politely, full of large amounts of shit.No matter how "ecstatic" they look while chanting some Indian sanskrit words.

Butler and many guru's close their eyes during chanting to put on an aura of "going to another place". But the reality is they are simply thinking about the same basic shit we all think about when we close our eyes: Things that happened today, random things we need to tend to like financial matters, relationships and assorted frustrations and anxieties. For Bhaktivedanta, those anxieties were to finish his translations of fairy tale books before he died. For Butler it's to upgrade his home air filter system to the best one and how many dumb disciples he needs to hit up for money to make that happen... and while he's at it, he's really been fancying his friends' wife, so maybe he can hit that too...

Meanwhile, old-timer Prabhupada and butler disciples sit and cry and wonder why they are not "tasting the nectar" or why they still have "mundane material" thoughts after sincerely chanting and serving for over 40 years... Surprise motherfuckers! You've been had. Now stop crying over spilled milk, tighten your shoelaces and start jogging, running and finally sprinting far away from all these ideologies that cripple your ability to think for yourself and make your own choices. They rob you of your own self-trust and make yo a monkey chanting on rote and feed you a line that this equals "bliss" and is some sort of transcendent state. RUN.

RUN_FOREST_RUN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Krishnas, from the time of Bhaktivinode and
> throughout history have a typical cult mentality
> of feeling they are above the law. They feel that
> the rules do not apply to them. Prabhupada wanted
> to build varnashram farm communities. The major
> experiments of that in the US, Canada, Europe,
> India, South America etc all failed and broke
> laws.

Bhaktivinode Thakur was a judge for some time. Ignoring the law as a whole is the wrong approach. Let's take the 3 laws of Noah. There is acceptance of local law in this concept, but it has to be solid. Means like a local manifestation of "yama" - universal moral principles. Even if they are not perfect, the ones that correspond to "yamie" should be followed. E.g. tenant rights. interests of both parties. The tenant is supposed to pay on time, and the owner of the flat cannot throw a man out like that. This, of course, has its conditions, etc. So here's the question why Kasia (suicide) was kicked out of the center within 1 hour.


> Now, for the purpose of letting things simmer down
> and not attract unwanted press, they are
> controlling themselves. But just give it some
> time. Look at Tulsi. She went from authoritarian
> dictator-like republican policies masquerading as
> "liberal" and "conservative progressive" to now,
> much to no ones surprise, back to the original MO.
> Her guru's MO. Bhaktivedantas MO. Bhaktisiddhantas
> MO. You can say that "love" is their MO. But this
> is a typical psychopathic charm at work. The
> ability to control the narrative, push your agenda
> and control people on the premises of "love" is an
> all-time favorite cult tactic.

Tulsi denied that her "guru" said anything unkind about someone or that she had not witnessed it and it was not her personal experience. Maybe there is some evidence that it is her personal experience after all? As the anti-SIF profiles show, there is a lot of profanity in Chris Butler's lectures.

>
> Anything that feels off in these cults is
> immediately posited as "dovetailing" with the wish
> of god, the wish of guru, some obscure scriptural
> verses etc. But mostly it is doing the bidding of
> one man. Butler for SIF, and other gurus.

True. The only representative of God. The only one with perfect vision etc.

>
> How is that? How do thinking people fall for a guy
> like Butler. Anyone who would see this man walking
> down the street (something he will not do without
> a bodyguard and dressed from head to toe in
> covering) you would think he is a nut job. But put
> him on a fancy chair dressed in flower leis and
> white clothing, he is all of a sudden transformed
> to the level of divinity in the eyes and minds of
> his blind followers. They will doubt any instinct
> they have to run and abandon all critical thinking
> to believe in total nonsense ideology and dogma.

There is a higher idea, love for God, self-realization, and there is some credit. Some distrust too. But the successive stages of succumbing to the recruitment and intimidating narrative, the whole amalgam of ideas, makes someone forget about their credit, their insecurity, etc. and plunge into it. Only bad fruit allows you to shake off this hypnotic state.Belonging to an exclusive salvation group also plays a role. The whole sectarian package.

> As a child I ate this stuff up. As a youth, I had
> my doubts but kept at it and considered that I
> must be a total demon for ever doubting it. As an
> adult and now, I MARVEL that I had ever fallen for
> any of it. I am astounded that it had such deep
> hooks in me.

Many said the same.

>
> Cultthusiast, I know where you are coming from
> about your attraction to guna/karma and some of
> the Samkhya philosophy in Vaishnavism. This is all
> amalgamation and usurped into the larger "vedic"
> cannon and eventually puranic Vaishnavism
> (https://www.jstor.org/stable/44148078), but by no
> means has any origins in a blue god playboy god
> named krshna. In fact in general Guna theory and
> karma and so forth are concepts available in most
> philosophical traditions since the dawn of time.
> As soon as man became more thoughtful about
> himself and the universe, there was some visible
> assessment that life is governed by assorted
> forces of nature and psychological states.

This is an interesting topic. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami translated and commented on only part of the scriptures. There are some inconsistencies or views from different directions. Only verification based on science, especially its ideologically neutral fields, or rather - formally very hard, can show the value, prove or disprove various theorems. As a curiosity, you can give the example of one outstanding analyst who publishes his works - he stated that these mechanisms are subtle and complex and getting to know them is boring - so he decided to write fairy tales. So did La Fontaine etc.


> Puranas, many of the myths actually highlight this
> one FACT over and over: Humans, gods and all you
> comprehend are flawed and there is no one, right
> answer to understanding it all.

Moreover, when this "almost perfect order" is stable, the gods begin to protest when Krishna wants to ignore it. There is a story.

But that's generally understandable. Considering these descriptions as an allegorical or mythological presentation of system dependencies and an attempt to deal with them through the human intellectual apparatus - a neural network with feedback, 2 hemispheres of the brain, cerebellum, impulse network - not constant, not linear - then it becomes understandable .

> I think
> "absolutism" in Vaishnava ideology became a
> response to Christian ideology/perfectionism and
> purism.

There are symptoms. Similarities.Slaughter of children at the birth of Jesus or Krishna, etc.


> treated and accepted as "god on earth". This model
> of ruling and creating social order and
> civilization was a natural product of population
> increase and evolution in human consciousness. The
> more autocratic the human mind, the more
> variables, wild-cards. The solution? Allegiance to
> one banner and mode of thinking. Anyone who
> disagrees with us, "BAM!", as Prabhupada
> fantasized about the future of Hare Krishna's
> killing the "Mudhas"...

It's the law. It is also systemic. The formation of cities. Players, resources, etc. There's a whole sub-field of equation simulation called "large systems theory" - simulating cities. Interestingly, those specializing in this do not like to raise the question of the dynamics of the transformation of consciousness - they do not want to introduce it into the model, while others - libertarians - talk about this transformation and show the work of specific researchers at the turn of 200-300 years.

"Killing the mudhas" is controversial. First of all - according to the doctrine of this religion, the material world is to be an expression of freedom of choice. He does not want to serve God - he does not serve. On the other hand, ensuring protection for the rebellious in the form of rights - it is the duty of the Creator, i.e. rebellious children, but they are to have some rights. According to the Bible, the law of judgment was given by God the Father to the Son. On the other hand, in the Vedas, Brahma has his Prajapatis and we have Dharmadeva - he makes the laws and Yamaraja - he executes punishments/judgements. Laws are also determined by Manu, so it's a bigger topic which are civil, criminal and which are administrative, e.g. time of sacrifices, etc.

Anyway, for the period of the Kali Yuga, Maharaja Pariksit does not kill the person of Kali - Bhagavatam - allows him to do certain things in separate places. Who is worse - Kali or Mudha?

> You can only
> realize something if you have a brain, a physical
> body. You would not even comprehend a single fancy
> spiritual ideology without your body and mind. To
> say that a "spirit soul" has the faculty of
> thought, mental processes, etc, means that such a
> supposed "transcendent" element has the physical
> capacity, effectively making it nothing
> transcendent at all, but simply a figment of
> imagination. That life "leaves" a body upon death
> is nothing more than the breakdown of an organic
> system. You know, until fucking proven otherwise.
> And I have to tell you, if indeed there is a
> spirit soul/god/absolute truth, in some million
> years of human evolution we have not found an iota
> of proof for it. So while it may be nice to
> contemplate the mechanics of guna theory and
> higher/lower self, subtle bodies, souls and god,
> the fact remains, it has little to no functional
> value.

This is another big topic. The existence of perception outside the physical body, i.e. beyond the physical senses. Is there a different plane - is there perception and based on what senses? whether the processing is also in the neural network, how the signal is transmitted, what is its nature, etc.


> What does have functional value is that we are
> here, right now, and we have a planet, body,
> friends and family that all function squarely
> within this field of experience. Anyone claiming a
> transcendent experience is, to put it politely,
> full of large amounts of shit.No matter how
> "ecstatic" they look while chanting some Indian
> sanskrit words.

The question is whether it is a transcendental experience or not schizophrenia. If it is not there, at some stage you have to tell yourself that we are dealing with a fairy tale. Moral values, principles, and discipline that is internalized, even as a habit, yield benefits.

And when it comes to the group, like Midgett or Jehovah's Witnesses, they say to those leaving "after all, you have to be in some sect, we are social animals, why leave this sect"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2023 07:21PM by Culthusiast.

In the systemic approach, with the huge complexity and number of domains, in order to deal with the laws of reality, you need - keys, reductions or, inevitably, the introduction of the "observer" concept from the theory of regulation. Hence the Vedic reductionisms are interesting here. Of course, if we accept as true the Vedic statement that "there are about 30 million demigods" or "controllers", then for the Universe - compact - for a human - it is beyond comprehension.

The concept of the "observer" helps a bit here, i.e. when the set of laws is reduced, at some point the observer dynamically adapts what is happening to his concept and sets the parameters. Expanded not only the eigenvalues of the system but - adds further "cells" to the state matrix, etc.

The basic learned disadvantage of the "observer" is that it fixes these parameters of the observed system over a period of time. If the phenomena in the observed system, the time constants are less than the "learning" time, the whole game does not make sense.

But if not then...Then you can star to think - "why other Brahma's have more than 4 heads...".

Then we start asking what is the smallest time constant. And this concept appears in the Vedas. One can begin to suspect that after the asteroid hit Earth some scientists realized that the community is going back to stone, there is no education and young people are focused on food and sex, it remains to write as many myths as possible in a short time...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2023 07:44PM by Culthusiast.

That is, a tendency to reluctance to learn detailed knowledge, its basics. Inference process. In Vedic philosophy, it is pramana. So here we have the case of SIF where sheep prefer to blindly believe "guru". "Guru", as confirmed by the sheep - does not really want to enter deeply and in detail, even - if we treat them as such - myths. Not to mention "pramana", a Sanskrit dictionary, etc. After all, sheep are supposed to be the best part of society. This knowledge-knowledge, not knowledge-ignorance, i.e. based on material experience and with a material motive, developed only along the branches that bring profit or destroy the opponent, and not developing the understanding of the whole thing - spirit and matter.

BREAKING NEWS IN INDIA... top story:

QNet crackdown! 57 arrested.

Maybe the QNet office building was set fire by angry disgruntled investors?

The QNet phenomenon strikes me as being somewhat unreal ... the size of the scam is mind-boggling... the astronomical amount of money ... the countries being targeted are obviously populated by folks who have no knowledge of MLM tactics... the deception. DECEPTION!

It almost seems like it was some sort of black magic spell that spread like wild-fire?

[www.youtube.com]

25 march 2023 Hyderabad & Bengaluru

[timesofindia.indiatimes.com]

QNET offices burned, fatalities.