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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 09, 2021 12:49PM

Elites of the group. Deny everything. Teaching of love and the same time using a sick devotee for renovation of own flat (how one can accept sick man working overnight or late) and putting foil under his butt in a car.

What about sheep? Let's take one woman. She has served enthusiastically at SIF / SOI since the 1990s. She cooked, cleaned, gave meditation classes as much as she could. Her chanting brother become a demon. Because he distanced himself, because he worked in matter and did other things.. But when the problem with the apartment came, she lived with her brother. Why? Isn't it a demonic place? Why can't her activists and maybe Mr. Midget will borrow her money for an apartment. And she is a scrap of nerve in the sauce of guru faith. Why hasn't she initiation? Maybe it is unnecessary for her spiritual life, but it sets the place of the hierarchy in the group. And how is it that at the same time on Hawaii a personality defined as having two left hands to work finds quickly good company...

Bona fide? No. Buonasera, arrivederci.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2021 12:55PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 09, 2021 02:41PM

The next story "About the wounded eyes of Ojaswi das".

Ojaswi das, a brilliant guy, was always renounced in the beginning. He could earn a lot of money, go to Microsoft, etc. but he preferred to work for the Guru. Destroyed socks, pants, shoes.

Once upon a time, Ojaswi earned quite a lot of money during a break from working in a cult. Winter was approaching. As renounced and very empathetic at that time, or maybe I don't know why, he lent all the money to those in need. Brothers or sisters in God from a sect.

As you can imagine, the sweet brothers and sisters did not return his money on time. How pathetic and shocking it is. It turned out in this unpleasant fairy tale for adults that Ojaswi das will not buy winter shoes and jackets. Yet he was empathetic and made money during a break from seva.

What happened here? What do you think? What is this phenomenon?

Ah, let me tell you, I will not hide this fairy-tale secret from a spiritual sect. Ojaswi das got fucked ...

Of course, he strictly followed the rules not to criticize, not to judge. Only his eyes showed hurt, and his mouth was pressed tight because he would have smoked something else.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: July 09, 2021 09:24PM

Listen, no need to lament for those humble ones who get abused or Fuc......
The last ones will be the first ones.
Apparently everything is upside down here.
The bullies who do quite well in this jungle realm have it really good, but the other side will not be so great for them.
The straws that get abused and crucified in the name of humility and faith, will be rewarded with an amazing eternal bliss.
The only thing the submissive slaves can hold on to, is the promise of liberation after letting pretty much everybody walk all over you.
And having a raw left cheek from offering it way too many times.
So I guess that faith or blind faith will always help them survive being cheated and treated like a doormat.
Let us hope that all these “promises” are true.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: July 10, 2021 07:39AM

Run amigos, run.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 10, 2021 01:13PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>Let us hope that all these “promises” are true.

The teachings say that vaidhi-sadhana alone can give liberation (Vaikuntha).

This descripion rather fits into: vinayapradhana-sadhana :)

[www.learnsanskrit.cc]

That goes far beyond even yoga-nidra..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2021 01:14PM by DaWatcher.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 10, 2021 02:15PM

The vinayapradhana process is understandable. In Poland, it would be associated with the practices of mortification in old convents, e.g. women. In order to wean or punish worldly sense temptations or to avoid possession, one must humiliate oneself. In this process, ther must be the one humiliating and the other - humiliated. The former humbly assumes the function of humiliating, and the latter humbly endures humiliation.

When the practice fails: ("Mother Joan of the Angels")

[www.youtube.com]

:)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: July 10, 2021 08:42PM

There is no such a thing as a free lunch in this ruthless jungle.
The so called devotees get many advantages too.
Bliss, security of having a community, inner peace, a strong prefabricated belief, some bread crumbs mystical synchronicities aka Krishna’s arrangement, promise of going back home for good (be it true or a lie), burning off Karma, protection from the mind (by being busy beyond 24 hours a day)...
Be it all a fantasy or real, it is a safe haven that comes at a price.
If the guru and other devotees are decent, then the price to pay will just be the austerities of following the regulative principles, chanting x number of rounds, Kirtans...
Getting up early... accepting that guru will need to give you permission to breath...
In the case of SoI, the price to pay is much higher because the leader is not so Kosher.
They must deal with abuse, anger, partialities, suicide, fear, slavery in the name of devotional service.
However as I said it many times, the rewards are possibly greater than the pain.
When I see people crawling back like submissive dogs after being put in the dog house for few years, it shows me that the addiction to the spiritual crack and the sense of security is all that counts.
Why should I even respect beings who have no respect for themsleves.
Because this process kills the sense of self and encourages one to give, give, give, give. It is just way out of balance.
It is like the life of caregivers who end up in burn out and depression.
Because they have no time to take care of themselves.
One should pay all respects to others and expect none in return. It is all about others and paying slight attention to self is seen as being self centered.
It encourages very destructive self talk: I am fallen, I am a demon, I am this and I am that.
Once a person gives away their identity like this, they will depend on the group and guru to exist.
If they enjoy the life of JOB. Being tested over and over again every day, then let them enjoy that.
It is a blissful form of masochism.
I do not encourage selfishness. I admire acts of kindness and generosity.
But this process is way too out of balance in a society where even devotees and spiritual masters can be wolves.
I am all for exposing the lies and abuse.
However am done feeling sorry for those who enjoy being locked in a spiritual mental hospital.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2021 08:43PM by Truth wins.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 12, 2021 02:54AM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no such a thing as a free lunch in this
> ruthless jungle.
> The so called devotees get many advantages too.
> Bliss, security of having a community, inner
> peace, a strong prefabricated belief, some bread
> crumbs mystical synchronicities aka Krishna’s
> arrangement, promise of going back home for good
> (be it true or a lie), burning off Karma,
> protection from the mind (by being busy beyond 24
> hours a day)...
> Be it all a fantasy or real, it is a safe haven
> that comes at a price.

Perhaps interesting for someone. Better by heaven is the promise of liberation by dwelling in Vrndavana, provided that one will not offend any Vrajavasi. A monkey from Vrindavana - great...

> However as I said it many times, the rewards are
> possibly greater than the pain.

The question is in what category. Gaudiya theology? Some rate it as catastrophically low in SIF. Position in the Vaisnava community? People who have had Sanyasa for 60 years are selected from the audience. There are Vedic schools, institutes, colleges. The Maharajas know Hindi, Bengali, Sanskrit ....


> One should pay all respects to others and expect
> none in return. It is all about others and paying
> slight attention to self is seen as being self
> centered.

Respect? Like email bombarding by a sentenced dealer.. Joke.


> It encourages very destructive self talk: I am
> fallen, I am a demon, I am this and I am that.

Better to recite slokas, the Maha Mantra or excerpts from the Tibetan Book of the Dead - to know when to go and what worlds when Buddhas appear :)

"I do not want to go to pretas world.. I do not want to go to opulent and materially happy worlds but without Dharma"

:)

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: July 12, 2021 09:06PM

At the end of the day butler is stil very dear to the ones he is serving despite the lunacy, fear and control.
Nobody is really ready for my insights, or to hear about my ultra supernatural experiences.
I do not get to conclusions lightly. I have both observed and experienced things that cannot even be seen in movies.
I absolutley do not believe that the divine unseen forces are solely JUST AND ALL GOOD.
But unfortunately humans are built to be brainwashed and fooled.
Butler has converted thousands of souls and those souls are offering love and worship to the LORDS 24/7.
None of us knows excatly what goes on behind the scenes of the so called spiritual worlds.
So why are the likes of butler allowed to stick around and create their mess, torture people with germaphobia and narcissism?
Who is watching and who is really caring?
All that counts is the energy of worship and love. At any cost.
You can believe whatever you want. Throw stones at me, report my post or get me kicked out of the forum.
It is a very sad reality.
My life became an absolute hell the day I decided to leave the center and put an end to abuse.
And it is still hell to this day.
Butler, disciples, devotees did not really harass me.
I was not one of those top contributors who slave 24/7 on the projects.
I was harassed by the much higher powers. The same powers that fooled me and almost forced me to enter this group.
In all these years, I have had many instances where I was literally shown that I should go back to butler’s group. Not many in here are open minded enough to hear the stories behind it. So I will not go into the details.
I could only explain it in a scifi movie. Because it is way too fringe.
What kind of a loving force fooled me to end up in that snake pit and what kind of a loving force wanted me to be held hostage again of this destructive group by going back?
Let us sit around and throw arrows at the scapegoats such as butler.
Let us think that all the negative and horrible things that happen are because of the demonic influences.
Let us brainwash ourselves a bit more every single day.
We have been fed a bunch of lies for thousands of years.
This reality is just a game. We are all merely puppets of the duality that has been established.
This material realm can be heaven, purgatory or hell depending on each individual’s situation.
Pretty much like the SoI. Where some suffer and others drink a cocktail by the beach and get the red carpet treatment.
Take it or leave it. I don’t care what anybody thinks.
Yes we can unconditionally accept that a loving force would test (torture) his most faithful subjects like JOB.
If a material parent does that, we would do anything to escape them, but if god does it, it is glorified. Not only one does not get upset, they would bow down to thank the lord for making them pay as much karma as possible in this lifetime.
It is the ONLY way to accept everything that happens and to brainwash ourselves a bit more.
So what is butler’s crime? He is both bringing souls to worship and also delivers to some their nasty Karma.
He is a multi purpose guru. Give the guy some credit.
Only Karma could justify the injustices in that hell hole. Where you have an elite versus the lowly slave devotees.
Accepting abuse and hardships are glorified in all scriptures.
Am I an atheist and offender? No not really. Just a critical thinker and one who is not afraid of the controlers of this reality.
I have been kicked and crushed way too often.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: July 15, 2021 04:09PM

Truth wins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He is a multi purpose guru. Give the guy some
> credit.

Give him some credit? After all, he got a lot of credit. In the sloppy lectures the Guru says "we can teach you .. come to us". What's the answer?

According to Ian Koviak's account, Guru did not deign to visit the children at the Brahmacari school in the Philippines. He did not reply to letters, or it was done by some secretary chicks or daughters of WaiLana, or perhaps the hidden son Siddha Bellord, replied. More credit?

The credits were already there. For many years, I do not remember a single situation where Guru was calling a sheep center.

Even Paramadvaita (former Swami) has visited his centers many times. He has now been stripped of all functions in the WVA.

The credits were already there.

And what about philosophical issues. The teaching in SIF / SOI said that the soul liberated to Brahman must fall (lack of relations, love exchange in diversity). Meanwhile, the discussion is currently taking place about the alleged fall from the spiritual world. A philosophical dispute. And one of the claims is that the soul in the spiritual world is nitya-siddha (or nitya-mukta), fully satisfied and cannot fall from Krsna-lila. If anything, then as tatastha shakti, he has a choice at the border. But regardless of when the choice was, whether Brahman was increasing (Sri Sridhar) or not, there was a choice.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2021 04:28PM by DaWatcher.

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