Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 20, 2018 01:14AM

Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: August 29, 2016
I think spreading information about a destructive cult and speaking of your personal realizations and experiences concerning such organizations and personalities is a service to those who wish to be free from such things. As far as what's in it for us, it's a voice—a place to have stated something that we value and feel is important and firmly attest to the things we believe are true and false.

Exposing a creepy cult guru like Butler and Wailana is not a practice in intellectualism and ego boosting. Far from it, many of us are putting ourselves out there in speaking out and shedding light. We are subjecting ourselves to family ties being cut off, friendships ending and dramatic shifts in our emotional and psychological states that we struggle with daily as a result of being raised or having joined this and other cults/groups.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 22, 2018 03:08AM

After rereading the 600 pages plus of this forum I have chosen some of the testimonials that for me highlight most dramatically the abuses of Chris Butler and other members of the "Science of Identity " cult.
If you want to send this summary to newspapers or politicians please send this link of a YOUTUBE video that explains how to find this information.


This forum has been mostly silent since several of its members have been persecuted by the lawyers working for the cult.Ex-members of this cult and members of this forum do not have the money resources to fight back a cult that has millions of dollars in its coffers to silence anyone that will try to expose Chris Butler as a false spiritual teacher. The cult is now focusing on Tulsi Gabbard the "HINDU" disciple of Chris Butler.Tulsi Gabbard announcing her intention of running for the presidency of the United State of America will surely accelerate the cult activities to prosecute anyone in the way of having that ultimate power.

Possibly a few national media outlets will do a deep investigation of Chris Butler and his cult and help to put a STOP to all the lies and deceits.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 25, 2018 02:25PM

Tulsi Gabbard praising Swami Bhaktivedanta without any knowledge of what the Swami
Bhaktivedanta true philosophy.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 25, 2018 02:39PM


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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 25, 2018 02:57PM

TULSI GABBARD IS A DISCIPLE OF CHRIS BUTLER ...AND CHRIS BUTLER IS A DISCIPLE OF SWAMI BHAKTIVEDANTA (Actually Chris Butler claims to be THE pure representative of Swami Bhaktivedanta ...

Swami Bhaktivedanta in His Own Words: Regression of Women’s Rights

What follows is an extensive list of quotes from Bhaktivedanta Swami, the founder of the Hare Krishna movement, on the topic of women. Bhaktivedanta Swami had among his disciples many women, who for the most part were fairly equal to the men early on. Over time, however, this equality slowly waned. Despite his talk of spiritual equality, his greater body of writing, lectures, and conversations show a deep rooted sense of misogyny. It should be no surprised, then, that this was eagerly picked up by his disciples and expanded to Talibanesque proportions.

BG 1.40, purport
As children are very prone to be misled, women are similarly very prone to degradation. Therefore, both children and women require protection by the elder members of the family. By being engaged in various religious practices, women will not be misled into adultery. According to Chanakya Pandit, women are generally not very intelligent and therefore not trustworthy. So the different family traditions of religious activities should always engage them, and thus their chastity and devotion will give birth to a good population eligible for participating in the varnasrama system. On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood the human race at the risk of war and pestilence.

BG 16.7, purport
Now, in the Manu-samhita it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men.

This is one of over forty references to the Manu-Samhita, most of which are not presented here to prevent repetition. Cherry-picking the Laws of God, by Willem Vandenberg, 2010, shows a further analysis of how Bhaktivedanta Swami used the authority of the Manu-Samhita scripture to affirm the control of men over women.

SB 1.7.42, purport
Women as a class are no better than boys, and therefore they have no discriminatory power like that of a man.

SB 3.7.29, purport
Mahabharata is also a division of the Vedas, but it is meant for women, sudras and dvija–bandhus, the worthless children of the higher section. The less intelligent section of society can avail themselves of the Vedic instructions simply by studying the Mahabharata.

SB 3.23.2, purport
Here two words are very significant. Devahuti served her husband in two ways, visrambhena and gauravena. These are two important processes in serving the husband or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Visrambhena means “with intimacy,” and gauravena means “with great reverence.” The husband is a very intimate friend; therefore, the wife must render service just like an intimate friend, and at the same time she must understand that the husband is superior in position, and thus she must offer him all respect. A man’s psychology and woman’s psychology are different. As constituted by bodily frame, a man always wants to be superior to his wife, and a woman, as bodily constituted, is naturally inferior to her husband. Thus the natural instinct is that the husband wants to post himself as superior to the wife, and this must be observed. Even if there is some wrong on the part of the husband, the wife must tolerate it, and thus there will be no misunderstanding between husband and wife. Visrambhena means “with intimacy,” but it must not be familiarity that breeds contempt. According to the Vedic civilization, a wife cannot call her husband by name. In the present civilization the wife calls her husband by name, but in Hindu civilization she does not. Thus the inferiority and superiority complexes are recognized. Damena ca: a wife has to learn to control herself even if there is a misunderstanding. Sauhrdena vaca madhuraya means always desiring good for the husband and speaking to him with sweet words. A person becomes agitated by so many material contacts in the outside world; therefore, in his home life he must be treated by his wife with sweet words.

SB 3.31.41, purport
A woman’s attachment to her husband may elevate her to the body of a man in her next life, but a man’s attachment to woman will degrade him, and in his next life he will get the body of a woman.

SB 4.4.3, purport
Generally, separation between husband and wife is due to womanly behavior; divorce takes place due to womanly weakness. The best course for a woman is to abide by the orders of her husband.

SB 9.3.10, purport
However great a woman may be, she must place herself before her husband in this way; that is to say, she must be ready to carry out her husband’s orders and please him in all circumstances. Then her life will be successful. When the wife becomes as irritable as the husband, their life at home is sure to be disturbed or ultimately completely broken. In the modern day, the wife is never submissive, and therefore home life is broken even by slight incidents. Either the wife or the husband may take advantage of the divorce laws. According to the Vedic law, however, there is no such thing as divorce laws, and a woman must be trained to be submissive to the will of her husband. Westerners contend that this is a slave mentality for the wife, but factually it is not; it is the tactic by which a woman can conquer the heart of her husband, however irritable or cruel he may be. In this case we clearly see that although Cyavana Muni was not young but indeed old enough to be Sukanya’s grandfather and was also very irritable, Sukanya, the beautiful young daughter of a king, submitted herself to her old husband and tried to please him in all respects. Thus she was a faithful and chaste wife.

SB 9.6.53, purport
As stated in Bhagavad–Gita (9.32), striyo vaisyas tatha sudras te ‘pi yanti param gatim. Women are not considered very powerful in following spiritual principles, but if a woman is fortunate enough to get a suitable husband who is spiritually advanced and if she always engages in his service, she also gets the same benefit as her husband. Here it is clearly said that the wives of Saubhari Muni also entered the spiritual world by the influence of their husband. They were unfit, but because they were faithful followers of their husband, they also entered the spiritual world with him. Thus a woman should be a faithful servant of her husband, and if the husband is spiritually advanced, the woman will automatically get the opportunity to enter the spiritual world.

SB 1.2.6, Montreal, August 3, 1968
Yes. So psychology… I was student of psychology in my college life. Dr. Urquhart said, I remember still, that the brain substance has been found up to 64 ounce, while brain substance of woman has been found, highest, 34 ounce. Therefore woman class (laughs) is not so intelligent as man. There is no question of competition. It is actual, scientific fact.

SB, Sept. 13, 1969
In India still, the system is follow(ed) in conservative families that a widow cannot marry. There is no widow marriage in India. They, the… Manu-samhita, the law-givers, the saintly persons, Manu-samhita… Why widow marriage is prohibited? The idea is generally, everywhere, in all countries, the female population is greater than the male population. So the idea is that she has become widow. She was once married. Now if again she is married, another virgin girl, she does not get the chance of being married. Therefore there is no widow marriage according to Hindu scripture. And a man is allowed, if he is, I mean to say able man, he can marry more than one wife. Not that simply marry. To get more than one wife does not mean sense enjoyment. The wife must be maintained very respectfully. She must have good house, good ornaments, good food, good servants.

Letter to: Paramananda, Tittenhurst 27 October, 1969
I am so glad to learn that a Krishna Conscious male child has been born now.

Lecture at Harvard University, Boston, December 24, 1969
According to psychology, there is difference of brain substance. Not the brain substance equally, of equal weight, in every man’s brain. You know, you are all educated students, psychology students. In our boyhood when we were a student in psychology class, Dr. Urquhart explained this brain substance. The man has got the highest brain substance — not all — up to sixty-four ounce. And woman has got the highest up to thirty-six or thirty-four. Of course, we are not discussing that point. Our movement is a spiritual movement, Krishna consciousness. That is beyond brain.


This is one of several references to Dr. Urquhart’s brain-size statement, which Bhaktivedanta Swami does discuss throughout the years, in private and in public, on more than a dozen occasions.
Noteworthy is that this statement from a teacher from the late 1920s is accepted by Bhaktivedanta Swami on face value. There is no indication that he has ever tried to verify it or avail himself with up-to-date research.
Rev. Dr. William Spence Urquhart (1877-1964) was the Scottish Church College Principal from 1928 to 1937. He wrote several books during his life: The Historical and the Eternal Christ (1915), The Upanishads and Life (1916), Pantheism and the Value of Life, with Special Reference to Indian Philosophy (1919), and The Vedanta and Modern Thought (1928).

Room Conversation — August 15, 1971, London
Prabhupada: Yes. That is psychological. They develop… Sex life, sex urge is there as soon as twelve years, thirteen years old, especially women. So therefore early marriage was sanctioned in India. Early marriage. Boy fifteen years, sixteen years, and girl twelve years. Not twelve years, ten years. I was married, my wife was eleven years. I was 22 years. She did not know what is sex, eleven years’ girl. Because Indian girls, they have no such opportunity of mixing with others. But after the first menstruation, the husband is ready. This is the system, Indian system.
Syamasundara: So they are not spoiled.
Prabhupada: No. And the psychology is the girl, after first menstruation, she enjoys sex life with a boy, she will never forget that boy. Her love for that boy is fixed up for good. This is woman’s psychology. And she is allowed to have many, oh, she will never be chaste woman. These are the psychology.

This is one instance where Bhaktivedanta Swami presents his idea (or an idea he agrees with) that pubescent girls will forever love the man that deflowers them.]

Letter to Chaya, 16 February, 1972 Calcutta
Complete separation from the boys is not necessary for girls at such young age, so I don’t require that they must be educated separately, only that they should live separately. What do they know of boy or girl at such young age? There was one question by a little girl like Sarasvati to her father: “Father, when you were young were you a boy or a girl?”

So when they are grown up, at about 10 to 12 years old, then you can make separate departments for teaching also. But while they are so young, although they must live in separate boys and girls quarters, they may be educated sometimes together, there is no such restriction that little girls should not have association with little boys, not until they are grown up.

All the children should learn to read and write very nicely, and a little mathematics, so that they will be able to read our books. Cooking, sewing, things like that do not require schooling, they are learned simply by association. There is no question of academic education for either boys or girls — simply a little mathematics and being able to read and write well, that’s all, no universities.

Their higher education they will get from our books, and other things they will get from experience, like preaching, SKP, etc. Alongside the regular classes in reading and writing, the other routine programs they should also participate in, like arati, kirtana, preaching, Sankirtana, like that.

You ask about marriage, yes, actually I want that every woman in the Society should be married. But what is this training to become wives and mothers? No school is required for that, simply association. And it is not necessary to say that women only can instruct the girls and men only can instruct the boys, not when they are so young. At 12 years, they may be initiated.

A woman’s real business is to look after household affairs, keep everything neat and clean, and if there is sufficient milk supply available, she should always be engaged in churning butter, making yogurt, curd, so many nice varieties, simply from milk. The woman should be cleaning, sewing, like that.

So if you simply practice these things yourselves and show examples, they will learn automatically, one doesn’t have to give formal instruction in these matters.

This is one of several instances where Bhaktivedanta Swami makes it clear that the proper position of women is at the proverbial stove — even the future generations of his own disciples. To that end they require only an absolute minimum of education, of which reading should apparently be restricted to Bhaktivedanta Swami’s books, and the example of likewise debased women. Of course, selling Bhaktivedanta Swami’s books (euphimized as “sankirtan”) is for everyone.

SB 1.3.13, Los Angeles, September 18, 1972
So dealing with woman… Especially instruction are given to men. All literatures, all Vedic literatures, they are especially meant for instruction to the men. Woman is to follow the husband. That’s all. The husband will give instruction to the wife. There is no such thing as the girl should go to school to take brahmacari asrama or go to spiritual master to take instruction. That is not Vedic system. Vedic system is a man is fully instructed, and woman, girl, must be married to a man. Even the man may have many wives, polygamy, still, every woman should be married. And she would get instruction from the husband. This is Vedic system. Woman is not allowed to go to school, college, or to the spiritual master. But husband and wife, they can be initiated. That is Vedic system.

SB 1.3.21, Los Angeles, September 26, 1972
I was student of psychology, and our professor… He was a Scotman. He explained this brain substance, cerebular substance, Dr. Urquhart, that the more brain substance is there, more one becomes intelligent. And it has been found that a woman does not have more than thirty-six ounce of brain substance, whereas in man it has been found that he has got up to sixty-four ounce. Now, this is modern science. Therefore generally, generally, woman, less intelligent than man. You cannot find any big scientist, any big mathematician, any big philosopher amongst woman. That is not possible. Although in your country, you want equal status with man, freedom, but by nature you are less intelligent. What can be done? (laughter)

One of several instances of Bhaktivedanta Swami’s mistaken notion that female scientists do not exist, despite being confronted with the name of one on at least one occasion (which he brushed of as “bogus”). Needless to say, female scientists exist, and always have.

Letter to Disciple, 23rd October, 1972
…Another item is, you are married wife, so in that position you should serve your husband nicely, always being attentive to his needs, and in this way, because he is always absorbed in serving Krishna, by serving your husband you will also get Krishna, through him. He is your spiritual master, but he must be responsible for giving you all spiritual help, teaching you as he advances his own knowledge and realization. That is the vedic system: The wife becomes a devotee of her husband, the husband becomes a devotee of Krishna; the wife serves her husband faithfully, the husband protects his wife by giving her spiritual guidance. So you should simply do whatever your husband instructs you to do, however he may require your assistance. Of course, the nature of woman is to be attached to her husband and family, so our system is to minimize this attachment by making the ultimate goal of our activity the pleasure of Krishna. Just try to please Krishna always, and no material circumstances will be able to cause you any discomfort.

Bhagavad-gita 1.40, London, July 28, 1973
Canakya Pandita says: visvasam naiva kartavyam strisu raja-kulesu ca. Visvasam naiva kartavyam. “Don’t trust women.” Visvasam naiva kartavyam strisu. Strisu means women. Raja-kula… And politicians. Yes. Visvasam naiva kartavyam strisu raja-kulesu ca. Never the trust the politician and woman. Of course, when woman comes to Krishna consciousness, that position is different. We are speaking of ordinary woman. Because Krishna says, in another place, striyo vaisyas tatha sudrah [BG 9.32]. They are considered, women, vaisya, the mercantile community, and sudra, and the worker class, they are less intelligent. Papa-yoni. When the progeny is defective, then they become less intelligent.

One of several instances that make clear that Bhaktivedanta Swami, despite apologist justifications, did not understand the proper translation and import of BG 9.32 and, following his own ideology about women, classified the entire gender as “defective progeny” and “less intelligent.”

Morning Walk, March 14, 1974, Vrindavan
Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, is this school for women also, or just for men?
Prabhupada: For men. Women should automatically learn how to cook, how to cleanse home.
Satsvarupa: So they don’t attend varnasrama college.
Prabhupada: No, no. Varnasrama college especially meant for the brahmana, ksatriya and vaisya. Those who are not fit for education, they are sudras. That’s all. Or those who are reluctant to take education, sudra means. That’s all. They should assist the higher class.

Morning Walk, May 1, 1974, Bombay
Prabhupada: Put problems. I’ll solve.
Yogesvara: Here’s a problem. The women today want the same rights as men. How can they be satisfied?
Prabhupada: Everything will be satisfied. Just like our women, Krishna conscious, they are working. They don’t want equal rights with men. It is due to Krishna consciousness. They are cleansing the temple, they are cooking very nicely. They are satisfied. They never say that “I have to go to Japan for preaching like Prabhupada.” They never say. This is artificial. So Krishna consciousness means work in his constitutional position. The women, men, when they remain in their constitutional position, there will be no artificial (indistinct) (loud traffic noises)
Bhagavan: They say that our women are unintelligent because they submit so easily, but…
Prabhupada: Subway?
Dhananjaya: No. This is also public transport, other trains.
Bhagavan: But actually, our women are so qualified in so many ways, but these girls who simply work in the city can do nothing. They can’t cook, they can’t clean, they can’t sew.
Prabhupada: All rubbish. These modern girls, they are all rubbish. Therefore they are simply used for sex satisfaction. Topless, bottomless…

SB 1.2.2, Rome, May 26, 1974
Prabhupada: The duty of Vaisnava is to reclaim these fallen souls. Just like Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ‘pi syuh papa-yonayah. Find out this verse:

mam hi partha vyapasritya
ye ‘pi syuh papa-yonayah
striyo vaisyas tatha sudras
te ‘pi yanti param gatim
[BG 9.32]

Krishna says, “Anyone who comes under My shelter, never mind he is the lowest of the low, lowborn…” The striyo vaisyah… Formerly, even the woman and the mercantile community and sudras, they were also considered as papa-yoni. Papa-yoni means whose brain is not very developed. That is papa-yoni. Blunt-headed. What is that?
Nitai: “O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth — woman, vaisyas merchants, as well as sudras, workers — can approach the supreme destination.”
Prabhupada: So the supreme destination, back to Godhead, back to home, is for everyone. It is not that God… God means for everyone. God does not say, “Only the brahmana class of men, please come here. Others all rejected.” No. He is inviting everyone. Even the lowest of the lowest, low-born, papa-yonayah, women, sudra, or vaisyas, everyone.

Bhagavad-gita 4.12, Vrindavana, August 4, 1974
Svarupa Damodara: Cerebrum.
Prabhupada: Yes. I was student of psychology. Our professor, Dr. Urquhart said that the brain, the biggest brain is, by practical psychology it has been tested, sixty-four ounce. And that is the highest brain substance. But for woman it is never more than thirty-six ounce. So they have tested all these practical psychologies.

Bhagavad-gita 16.7, Hawaii, February 3, 1975
Otherwise it doesn’t matter what he is, which family he’s born. It doesn’t matter. Krishna says, you’ll find, mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ‘pi syuh papa-yonayah [BG 9.32]. Papa-yoni. To take birth low-grade family, or animal family, these are called papa-yoni. Krishna says that it doesn’t matter if one is born in the papa-yoni, low-grade family. It doesn’t matter. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ‘pi syuh papa-yonayah. In the human society, striyah sudras tatha vaisyah, even woman and sudra and vaisya, they are also taken in the category of papa-yoni. Papa-yoni means their intelligence is not very sharp. That is called papa-yoni. And a brahmana means to become very, very highly intellectual. That is called brahmana. Because he’ll understand Brahman.

Bhagavad-gita 16.7, Hawaii, February 3, 1975
To understand Brahman is not the business of tiny brain. Alpha-medhasam. There are two Sanskrit words, alpa-medhasa and su-medhasa. Alpa-medhasa means having little brain substance. Physiologically, within the brain there are brain substance. It is found that the brain substance in man is found up to 64 ounce. They are very highly intellectual persons. And in woman the brain substance is not found more than 34 ounce. You’ll find, therefore, that there is no very great scientist, mathematician, philosopher, among women. You’ll never find because their brain substance cannot go. Artificially do not try to become equal with men. That is not allowed in the Vedic sastra. Na striyam svatantratam arhati. That is called sastra. You have to understand that woman is never given to be independence. Independence means just like child has to be taken care, similarly, woman has to be taken care. You cannot get your child go in the street alone. There will be danger. Similarly, according to Vedic civilization, Manu-samhita, woman should be given protection. In this way, acara, this is called acara. So the demons, they do not know. The demons, they do not know what is what, how one thing should be treated, how… They do not know. In the Western countries there is no such distinction between man and woman. But there is.

Interview, March 5, 1975, New York
Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?
Prabhupada: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural.
Female Reporter: That goes against the thinking of a lot of people in America now. Do you know that?
Prabhupada: No… America, maybe, but this is the natural position. Women require protection.
Female Reporter: Who decides who’s natural? And what’s natural?
Prabhupada: Natural means just like in psychology it is said that woman, the highest brain substance of woman is thirty-six ounce, whereas the highest brain substance of man is sixty-four ounce. So there is difference by nature, of the brain.
Female Reporter: Well (laughter), to get to something else, what do you do for fun when you’re in New York?
Prabhupada: Huh? What is that? I…
Srutakirti: You have defeated her.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Female Reporter: (laughs) But I’m not going to pursue your line of logic. And what do you do for fun?
Prabhupada: No, that is natural defeat. You cannot avoid it. (laughter)

Television Interview, July 9, 1975, Chicago
Female Reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Female Reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.

Television Interview, July 9, 1975, Chicago
Female Reporter: We have talked to scientists who say that the size of the brain has nothing to do with intelligence. Do you believe that?
Prabhupada: I think that the scientists do not think like that. They keep the brain of a particular scientist to study. They keep the heart of a particular noble man. Why they try to study the heart and the brain if there is no difference?
Nitai: Sometimes they keep the brain of a great scientist to study because they think that he is so intelligent, there must be something we can learn from studying the brain. So if they are thinking like that, then there also must be a difference between a woman’s brain and a man’s brain.
Female Reporter: What they say is that there is difference, but it has nothing to do with the size.
Nitai: Then why do they keep great scientists’ brain to study?
Female Reporter: They keep many people’s brains to study.
Nitai: Especially great scientists, that they want to see what has made this man so intelligent.
Female Reporter: That’s not necessarily true.
Prabhupada: Then why they study the brain? What is the purpose of studying brain unless there is difference? You study different brains. Unless you feel that there is difference between this brain and that brain, why do you study. What is the meaning of study?
Female Reporter: To find differences among men. It’s not necessarily differences between men and woman.
Prabhupada: I don’t say man or woman. But I say you study different brains — why? Unless you think there is some difference?
Female Reporter: There is difference.
Prabhupada: Yes. So if there is difference, then what is the harm if there is difference between man and woman’s brain?
Female Reporter: They say there isn’t.
Prabhupada: They say, but the fact we have to study. As soon as you study the construction of different brain, then you must know that there is difference, different activities.
Female Reporter: In other words, you do not believe this, what they say.
Prabhupada: Then why do you study different brain?
Female Reporter: I don’t study them. I’m just telling you what the scientists say.
Prabhupada: So scientists, the psychologist… As I was a student of psychology and our professor, a big man, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he said that “By studying the brains of man and woman, we have found the highest brain substance found in man, sixty-four ounce by weight.” You may deny. This is the statement of a big psychologist. You can shake your head, but this is the scientific words by big psychologist. You can note down his name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, professor of psychology in the Scottish Churches College in 1918-20.
Female Reporter: Oh, dear, no wonder. 1918-1920, that means… O.K. I see now what you’re thinking about. That was many, many years ago.
Prabhupada: So can you give any proof since then that the woman’s… In 1920… She does not take it?
Nitai: She does not take it. Somehow they think that the brain is no longer small. If it was small, then, it is not small today.
Prabhupada: But where is the proof…
Female Reporter: You do not believe that there has been advancement of science since 1920?
Nitai: Well, if the brain has been ascertained as being half the size then why should it change by now? Should it change?
Female Reporter: Well, do you think that the Romans weren’t as tall as men are today?
Nitai: No, but the… But then, within fifty years there is not going to be any change in the brain.
Female Reporter: Not in the 1900’s. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn’t have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.
Prabhupada: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?
Female Reporter: No, what I’m saying is that…
Prabhupada: Now, can you give any evidence that woman has become more powerful than the man during these fifty years?
Female Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupada: What is that? Give me some tacit example.
Female Reporter: That she and I wouldn’t be here if women weren’t more powerful than they were fifty years ago.
Harikesa: Now they are talking louder. (laughter)
Female Reporter: Thank you. Thank you. (woman leaves)
Harikesa: The scientists have the theory that the brain, the intelligence is measured by creases in the brain, creases, not by size.
Prabhupada: Not size, but what is the proof that the brain of woman has increased? Where is the proof?
Harikesa: They think because the ego has increased, the brain has also increased.
Prabhupada: Oh, that’s nice. (laughter) That’s nice. (laughing) So to become angry means defeat. If two persons are in argument the man, the one party, he becomes angry, that means he is defeated. Why one should become angry? It is the argument, logic. They should continue. And to become angry and to go away, that means defeat.

Press Conference, July 9, 1975, Chicago
Reporter (3): (a woman) Where… Do women fit into this social structure? You keep referring to man.
Prabhupada: Woman is not equally intelligent as a man.
Reporter (3): Equal in intelligence?
Prabhupada: Not equal intelligence. In the psychology, practical psychology, they have found that the man’s brain has been found up to sixty-four ounce, woman… Sixty-four ounce, man’s brain. And woman’s brain has been found, thirty-six ounce. So therefore woman is not equally intelligent like man.

Press Conference, July 9, 1975, Chicago
Prabhupada: Now, woman is supposed to be assistant of man. If woman is faithful wife of the first-class man, then she also becomes first-class. If she is assistant of the second-class man then he is also second-class. If she is assistant of the third-class man, then she is also third-class. Because she is assistant, so, according to her husband, or protector, she becomes first, second, third, fourth.
Reporter (3): But she doesn’t have any structure at all until marriage?
Prabhupada: No, she has got structure — she has got brain. I have already told. But not as good as man’s brain.
Reporter (3): You means she’s not qualified as first, second, or third-class until she marries?
Prabhupada: Yes. Woman requires to be protected — in childhood by the father, in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by the elderly sons.
Reporter (2): What is your feeling in regard to Mrs. Gandhi’s actions in India at the present time, particularly in relation to what you’re saying about women? Is what’s happening there because she has a thirty-six ounce brain and is incapable of ruling?
Prabhupada: Well, what is scientific proof, that is equally applicable to Mrs. Gandhi or to any ordinary woman.

Room Conversation after Press Conference, July 9, 1975, Chicago
Jagadisa: Male means predominator, female means predominated.
Prabhupada: Then? Where is the independence? Why artificial independence?
Harikesa: In this brain weight matter, the sixty-four ounce and thirty-six ounce, is that every brain, male brain, is…?
Prabhupada: No, no.
Harikesa: No. That is what they think you’ve said, that every male brain is sixty-four ounces, every woman is thirty-six ounces.
Prabhupada: No, no. The highest brain substance found in man is sixty-four ounce.
Harikesa: They did not understand that.
Nitai: He said it clearly.
Prabhupada: And the highest brain substance in woman found, thirty-six ounce. So that proportion is always there. It may be twenty ounce, forty ounce, but brain substance in man is more than the woman. That is a fact, always.
Harikesa: Is that in the Vedas also?
Prabhupada: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, “Now they have improved.” Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear… Even Ramacandra, millions of years, Lord Ramacandra. Sita became pregnant, not Ramacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Ramacandra. Sita became pregnant, not Ramacandra. The law of woman’s becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, “We have made improvement.” What is that improvement? Millions of years ago, Sita, she became pregnant, and Ramacandra did not become pregnant. Man did not. So what is the improvement at the present moment? Is there any instance, a man is now becoming pregnant. And not the woman? So where is the improvement?
This is a typical example of a plain nonsensical argument. Switching pregnancy in genders in no way relates to intelligence or cultural status. The dismal cultural status of women in India and other less developed countries relates directly to their patriarchal society structure and associated religious oppression.]

Morning Walk, December 10, 1975, Vrindavana
Indian man: She was telling me when… She… I said that “Prabhupada sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because…”
Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.
Prabhupada: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius, in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.
Harikesa: In the TV, on television.
Indian man: Same thing?
Devotee (2): In France also.
Prabhupada: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the airplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing… (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-up. And, “I have no key.” She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)
Harikesa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, “Why the Swamiji doesn’t like women?”
Prabhupada: No, no, I don’t say that I don’t like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights — your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.
Aksayananda: That doesn’t mean you don’t like them.
Prabhupada: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that “If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement.”
Harikesa: Visakha was preaching to her. She said that “Actually we are less intelligent.” (laughter) That started a big scandal…
Prabhupada: Yes. And that is Krishna consciousness. [break] They are in equal right, then… Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they’ll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some… This is most immoral things.
Morning Walk, July 10, 1975, Chicago
Jayatirtha: (in car:) It says, “Forgive me if this story is not well-written. I am a woman. My brain weighs less than a man’s, and I am not equal in intelligence.” So she admits. “His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the seventy-seven year-old founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, said so Wednesday. The Society is dedicated to peace in the world through love of God and relinquishment of all things material. The Swami spoke seated cross-legged on an expensive looking cushion surrounded by fresh flowers, microphones and burning incense in a conference room he rented at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel. He is in town for a Krishna parade at 1:30 p.m., Saturday down State Street in which he will ride on a flower-bedecked float. He then will fly to Philadelphia for more celebration and philosophical chats. He looked occasionally at his gold watch as he explained his life philosophy. His adoring disciple, five men, knelt at his side. ‘The MAN,’ ” capital M-A-N, “he said, ‘who loves God, controls his sense, is clean inside and out, is simple and tolerant and uses knowledge he has acquired in practical life…’ ”
Prabhupada: Intolerant?
Jayatirtha: No, “and tolerant.” ” ‘Such MEN,’ ” capital M-E-N again, “he said, ‘are first-class citizens and should be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and should be administrators and workers.’ ” Not exactly right. “He spoke thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his system. ‘Women,’ he said, ‘is not equal in intelligence to man. Man’s brain weighs sixty-four ounces; women’s weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a fact.’ He continued, ‘Women are meant to assist men. That is all.’ He said women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. ‘An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,’ asked a male reporter…”
Prabhupada: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that’s all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That’s all. There is no other way.
Jayatirtha: ” ‘Is that,’ asked a male reporter, ‘what is wrong with Mrs. Indira Gandhi?’ The Swami hedged.” Then actually they made a mistake. ” ‘I cannot say. I would be arrested.’ ” That was actually a misquote. (Prabhupada laughs)
Brahmananda: Well, it’s the idea, though.
Jayatirtha: Yeah. “The Swami now lives in Los Angeles, and he trains his followers there. Their income is from sales of his books, magazines and incense. He says he has about ten thousand followers. ‘We do not have so many,’ he said…”
Prabhupada: The inner meaning is there: “I shall be arrested.”
Brahmananda: Yes. (laughs) That shows what is the position.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: “He said he has about ten thousand followers.” Quote: ” ‘We do not have so many,’ he said, ‘it is hard to find a first-class man.’ ” And then she says…
Prabhupada: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple.
Jayatirtha: Then she says, “It’s a pity half the population are women.”
Prabhupada: I didn’t say half the population…
Brahmananda: That’s her comment.
Jayatirtha: That’s what she said. In other words…
Brahmananda: Her comment is that if you hadn’t…
Jayatirtha: …that half of the people are disqualified already because they’re women. It’s not so bad.
Prabhupada: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I’ll personally… Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn’t require education. [break] Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot… No, no, hand… What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? [break] Within two weeks, two divorces.
Devotees: Yes. [break]
Prabhupada: In the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Krishna consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayanti, then Parvati, Sita, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that “I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste.” What do you think?
Brahmananda: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven’t, that’s all right. And Krishna consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right?
Jayatirtha: Jaya.

Letter to: Dhananjaya, Bombay 9 November, 1975
I note that your wife and Visalaini both gave birth to baby girls. That is the defect. I want male children but you have no stamina for it. I expected from Visalaini by her belly that it would be a boy. Anyway, never mind. The name Brijlata is nice. Why do the majority of my married disciples give birth to girls?

Letter to: Bahudak, Bombay 10 November, 1975
I note that your wife has given birth to one girl child. Are all your other children also dasi’s or do you have any das’s? We want more das’s than dasi’s.

Letter to: Madhudvisa, Bombay 10 November, 1975
Regarding your second question, whether a person who is a Negro, Chinese, Indian, etc. are they different species of life making up the 400,000 species. Yes, so far their body is concerned. Your question whether woman in each one of these species is another separate species, no, the species means both man and woman of the same type. Of course, strictly speaking the woman is taken differently, otherwise how would Krishna say striyo vaisyas tatha sudras.

Morning Walk, November 29, 1975, Delhi
Tejas: Their current exhibition is “Women in the World.”
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?
Tejas: It’s “Women in the World.”
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) What is that “Women in the World”?
Ambarisa: Sixteen-ounce brain, I think.
Gopala Krishna: They had a world conference of women in Mexico recently, where every country sent a delegation of women.
Prabhupada: To become man? (laughter)
Harikesa: Yes, nowadays we’re doing that also.
Prabhupada: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman.

Morning Walk, March 19, 1976, Mayapura
Radhavallabha: In one BTG article, you described increase in women population as a natural disaster.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Radhavallabha: So when one woman read this article, she became very angry. She came back and was very angry.
Prabhupada: She may be angry. She is woman and man. Actually this is physiological. If a man is too much addicted to sex life, he’ll become impotent, and if he begets child, it will be a girl. With no potency to give birth to a male child…. That requires potency.
Hamsaduta: When we were going around in London making life members, I noticed that in so many families, all the children are girls.
Prabhupada: Yes. The whole world is full of girls, girl children. Why? There is no potency. Potency finished. Or impotent. And if you keep one boy brahmacari, no sex life, and get him married, the first child must be a boy, must be, without any doubt.
Lokanatha: That means, then, woman is more potent than…
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Yes. The Ayur-vedic formula is that when there is discharge, woman’s discharge, more, means girl, and man’s discharge, more, means boy. This is physiological.

This is one of several instances where Bhaktivedanta Swami equates the birth of female children with a father’s impotency. However, the ratio of male to female children worldwide averages 50/50 — for a reason. The female egg always carries an X chromosome, while about half of the male sperms carries an X chromosome and the other half a Y chromosome. When egg and sperm combine, an XX pair produces a girl, an XY pair a boy. Again, there is a 50% chance for either.

Morning Walk, March 19, 1976, Mayapura
Adi-purusam. Govindam adi-purusam, that purusa. Govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami. We are worshiping that supreme and original person. And the women are declaring, “independent.” They are begging door to door to a man, “Please give me shelter. Give me a child,” and they’re independent. One American woman, was…. She was speaking that “In India the woman are treated as slave. We don’t want.” So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. (laughter) The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied, a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Misra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, nari-rupam pati-vratam: “The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband.” That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilanam svaro rupam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilanam svaro rupam vidya-rupam kurupanam. A man may be ugly, black, but if he’s learned, everyone will respect him. And nari-rupam pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult.

Morning Walk, March 19, 1976, Mayapura
Ramesvara: But we all have…. The women and men, they all have the same brain, they say.
Prabhupada: No, that I protested in Chicago. Yes. “And no, that is not the fact. The fact is man has 64 ounce. The woman has 36 ounce…. Highest.”
Devotee (2): They’ll say intelligence is not dependent on the size of the brain.
Prabhupada: They say anything because they are rascals. A rascal can say anything. Pagale ki na bale chagale kiba na khaya: “A madman, what he does not say? And a goat, what he does not eat?” (laughter)

Interview with Trans-India Magazine, July 17, 1976, New York
So actually this varnasrama system is meant for bringing the man in the lower status of life to the higher status of life. It doesn’t matter one is born in a low-grade family. That is also said by Krishna: mam hi partha vyapasritya ye ‘pi syuh papa-yonayah. Papa-yoni, lower grade. Striyo vaisyas tatha sudrah [BG 9.32]. In the human society, woman, the vaisya and the sudra, they are considered in the lower status, not very intelligent.

Morning Walk, January 9, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: I condemn everyone, that “You are all dogs and hogs.” And United Nations a pack of dogs barking. That’s a fact. And in Chicago I said, all women, “You cannot have freedom. You have got only thirty-four-ounce brain, and man has got sixty-four-ounce.” I told them. So I became a subject of very great criticism.
Trivikrama: Women’s liberation.
Prabhupada: I denied, “No, you cannot have.” I told them. One girl in the airship, she was seeing like (makes some gesture-laughter). I asked her, “Give me 7-Up.” “It is locked now.” So I frankly said that “No, no. You cannot have equal rights because your brain is thirty-four ounce.” Actually that’s a fact. Where is woman philosopher, mathematician, scientist? Not a single.
Dr. Patel: Apart from that, I mean, they are made for a particular mission.
Prabhupada: How they can have equal rights? Up to date in the history there is not a single woman who is a great scientist or great philosopher or great…
Dr. Patel: Madame Curie was a…
Prabhupada: All bogus. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You are getting too harsh on them because…
Prabhupada: No, no. How can I give you equal rights, because your brain is less substance.
Dr. Patel: We cannot degrade our mothers that way.
Prabhupada: It is not degrading. It is accepting the actual fact.
Dr. Patel: These girls are misled, these American girls.
Prabhupada: There is no history. There is no history. Just like Kunti’s mother. She produced so many heroes, but she was not hero. She could produce heroes like Arjuna, like Bhima. But not that she becomes hero.
Dr. Patel: Mother can produce heroes…
Prabhupada: That’s all right. Still, nobody will say that Kunti is as good as Arjuna or Bhima.
Dr. Patel: How can anybody say?
Prabhupada: That is… How you’ll get the equal rights?
Dr. Patel: No woman smaller than Kunti could have produced an Arjuna.
Prabhupada: You can produce. That is another thing. A cook can produce foodstuff suitable for rich man, but that does not mean he is rich man.
Dr. Patel: You argue. (laughs)

Room conversation, January 31, 1977, Bhubaneshwar
Satsvarupa: Mainly it’s about the girls who are over ten. They were in Vrindavana and discussed this with Jagadisa, but they couldn’t settle up, so they wanted to know what you think. Their idea is that… As of now, there is no plan for a school for the girls over ten, but just that they should return to their parents and not get any more schooling. But they’re thinking that there should be, and one reason is that you said in France that the girls could learn these sixty-four arts. So they were thinking that there should be a school for girls over ten, and that it should be situated in India. One reason is that in India our teachers can take help from Indian Life Member ladies who know these arts. Our Western devotees don’t know them, the cooking and painting and things like this, but the Indian women do. …
Prabhupada: My opinion is already there according to the… They should be chaste, faithful to husband. Little literary knowledge, they can read. That’s all. Not very much.

Morning Conversation, April 29, 1977, Bombay
Prabhupada: So far gurukula is concerned, that also, I have given program. They have given the name of “girls.” We are not going to do that.
Tamala Krishna: What is that?
Prabhupada: Girls. Boys and girls. That is dangerous.
Tamala Krishna: Gurukula.
Prabhupada: In that article.
Tamala Krishna: Oh, oh, oh.
Prabhupada: Girls should be completely separated from the very beginning. They are very dangerous.
Tamala Krishna: So we’re… I thought there were girls in Vrindavana now. They said that they’re going to have the girls’ gurukula behind the boys’ gurukula. Gopala was talking about that.
Prabhupada: No, no, no. No girls.
Tamala Krishna: It should be in another city or somewhere else.
Prabhupada: Yes. They should be taught how to sweep, how to stitch…
Tamala Krishna: Clean.
Prabhupada: …clean, cook, to be faithful to the husband.
Tamala Krishna: They don’t require a big school.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is mistake. They should be taught how to become obedient to the husband.
Tamala Krishna: Yeah, you won’t learn that in school.
Prabhupada: Little education, they can…
Tamala Krishna: Yeah. That they can get at home also.
Prabhupada: They should be stopped, this practice of prostitution. This is a very bad system in Europe and America. The boys and girls, they are educated-coeducation. From the very beginning of their life they become prostitutes. And they encourage.

What follows here is one of the more well-known issues that sparked further scrutiny into bizarre statements made by Bhaktivedanta Swami and one that has so far received the most attention from apologists, who claim that he meant “rape” in antiquated terms of some kind of amorous conquest when he wrote his purports in 1974. From the material below it is clear, though, that even before and after that time Bhaktivedanta Swami knew perfectly well that rape refers to an illegal act of forced sexual intercourse.

Purport SB 4.25.41
In this regard, the word vikhyatam is very significant. A man is always famous for his aggression toward a beautiful woman, and such aggression is sometimes considered rape. Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape.

Purport SB 4.25.42
When a husbandless woman is attacked by an aggressive man, she takes his action to be mercy. A woman is generally very much attracted by a man’s long arms. A serpent’s body is round, and it becomes narrower and thinner at the end. The beautiful arms of a man appear to a woman just like serpents, and she very much desires to be embraced by such arms.

The word anatha-varga is very significant in this verse. Natha means “husband,” and a means “without.” A young woman who has no husband is called anatha, meaning “one who is not protected.” As soon as a woman attains the age of puberty, she immediately becomes very much agitated by sexual desire. It is therefore the duty of the father to get his daughter married before she attains puberty. Otherwise she will be very much mortified by not having a husband. Anyone who satisfies her desire for sex at that age becomes a great object of satisfaction. It is a psychological fact that when a woman at the age of puberty meets a man and the man satisfies her sexually, she will love that man for the rest of her life, regardless who he is. Thus so-called love within this material world is nothing but sexual satisfaction.

SB 5.14.22
niraye — hellish conditions of life (the government’s prison for criminal activities like rape, kidnapping or theft of others’ property).

The conditioned soul is sometimes attracted to the little happiness derived from sense gratification. Thus he has illicit sex or steals another’s property. At such a time he may be arrested by the government or chastised by the woman’s husband or protector. Thus simply for a little material satisfaction, he falls into a hellish condition and is put into jail for rape, kidnapping, theft and so forth.

Bhagavad-gita 1.36, London, July 26, 1973
Afterward, if the other party is defeated, the victorious party makes some, so many aggression, especially aggression of women. That is still current. Innocent women, they are very much harassed after the war by the victorious party. You know, the soldiers are given freedom to rape the women. And plunder the property. So many things they have.

Morning Walk, April 20, 1974, Hyderabad
Prabhupada: That Central Park, nobody can walk there. I have heard from many women that they rape. The negroes, they capture and rape. Life is unsafe even in a civilized city like New York. So what is this civilization? Our (name withheld) was… [break] …Park. (Name withheld) our. Yes, she said.
Mahamsa: She said?
Prabhupada: No, no, she said. She was captured by a group of negroes to rape her. [break] That girl, what is his name? (name withheld) wife?
Satsvarupa: (Name withheld).
Prabhupada: She was raped.
Satsvarupa: Trinidad.
Prabhupada: Yes. She was raped.

Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth
Devotee (1): They swear on the Bible in the court. And I was reading in the paper the other day that now in England they have passed a law whereby a man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented to be raped.
Prabhupada: Eh? What is that? Woman?
Devotee (1): They said that the man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented to his raping her.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, “Yes, I felt happiness.” So he was released. “Here is consent.” And that’s a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, “Yes, I felt some pleasure.” “Now, there is consent.” So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That’s a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.
Devotee (1): So what this law means is that anybody can rape anybody.
Prabhupada: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The sastra has… It is lusty desire, that’s all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamah. Rajas-tamo-bhavah kama-lobhadayas ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. It is all discussed in the sastra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say “legalized prostitution.” They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that’s all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, “Better married. Then you will be controlled.” Married life… So he will not be so lusty as without married life.

Morning Walk, July 14, 1975, Philadelphia
Therefore they are fools. When a man’s lusty desire is very strong, he commits, what is called, rape, and he becomes complicated in criminal activities.

Morning Walk, January 6, 1976, Bombay
Prabhupada: No, no, San Francisco. There is a lake. So there the ducks, the male duck is attacking the female duck, what is called? When man forcibly attacks?
Giriraja: Rape.
Prabhupada: Rape, the same thing.

Evening Darsana, July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.
That is force. (indistinct) prema. In Bengali it is said “If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? (laughter) “You love me, otherwise I will kill you.” (laughter) Is that love? So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver, “You love me, otherwise I shall kill you.” That is not love, that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling, then there is love, not by force. That is rape. The… Why one is called lover, another is called rape?

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 25, 2018 11:53PM

GODHIMSELF refers to Rev William Spence Urquart as a source for Srila Prabhupada.

Wikipedia (a starting point for research but needs to be checked against other sources) has an article in German about the Reverend.

In English translation, the data is very, very interesting.



William Spence Urquhart
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William Spence Urquhart (born May 8, 1877 in Annandale , Woolston , Southampton , † July 16, 1964 in Torphins, Aberdeenshire) was a British Christian scholar. Among other things, he influenced one of his college students, the later founder of the religion, AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada .

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William Spence Urquhart was born as the youngest of three children on 8 May 1877 in Annandale, Woolston (an area in Southampton), United Kingdom.

His father, Rev. Robert Urquhart, was the sixth-generation cleric of the Presbyterian United Church of Scotland at Old Meldrum, Aberdeenshire. His mother's name was Mary Jane Spence.

After attending school (1887-1893), William Spence Urquhart earned a Master of Arts degree in philosophy.

From 1898 to 1902 he completed a four-year study of theology at the College in Edinburgh, which led him to Marburg (1899) and Göttingen (1901), among others.

In 1902 Urquhart became a priest of the Presbyterian United Free Church of Scotland. On December 23, 1902, a few days after his ordination, William Spence Urquhart traveled by sea to India.

There he married on December 20, 1905 Margaret Macaskill, the daughter of a priest of the United Free Church of Scotland in Calcutta . He taught English, Social Studies, Health Studies and Philosophy at the Church College there. For his work Pantheism and the Values ??of Life (London 1919) gave him the University of Aberdeen an honorary doctorate.

In 1913 he took over the management of the newspaper Calcutta Review for 8 years .

From 1909, the later Indian freedom fighter Subhas Chandra Bose attended Scottish Church College . He was a fellow student later AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada . [1] It is known that Urquhart had a positive opinion about Bose.

On February 2, 1926, Urquhart became director of Scottish Church College. He founded the Philosophical Society at Scottish Churches College and established ties to the Indian YMCA .

Urquhart was from 1916 a member of the University of Calcutta and a member of the Congress of the Universities of the Empire from 1921. From 1928 to 1930 he was Vice Chancellor of the University of Calcutta and Dean of the Faculty of Arts . In addition, he regularly preached at church services in Calcutta.

Urquhart retired in 1937. He left Calcutta with his wife to teach systematic theology , logic and moral philosophy . Urquhart taught at the University of Aberdeen for a year, two years at Knox College in Toronto, and then again in Aberdeen from 1940 to 1946.

Reverend William Spence Urquhart died on July 16, 1964.

Pantheism and the Values ??of Life (London 1919)
The Upanishads and Life (1913)
The Historical and the Eternal Christian (Edinburgh 1915)
Theosophy and Christian Thought (Edinburgh 1922)
The Vedanta and Modern Thought (Edinburgh 1928)
The Idea of ??Progress in Eastern and Western Thought (Calcutta 1931)
Humanism and Christianity (Edinburgh 1945)
Schmidt, Peter: Krishna meets Jesus. AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada's Interpretations and Conclusions about Christianity, Books on Demand GmbH, ISBN 3-8311-3570-3 , p. 103

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2018 11:53PM by corboy.

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Remember, this is Tulsi Gabbards' family religious tradition
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 26, 2018 12:03AM


the title of the website from which this quotation is taken reads:


ISKCON Desire Tree - Devotee Network

Connecting Devotees Worldwide - In Service Of Srila Prabhupada

Here is the quote:


Srila Prabhupada reasons against Gandhi's philosophy of non-violence
Posted by Gourab Saha on August 22, 2012 at 11:27am in Krishna
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Hare Krishna and dandavat pranama to all prabhujis and matajis!!

Recently, I got a beautiful piece of information while surfing the net which I would like to share with all of you.

Srila Prabhupada has commented on many occasions about politics and how to deal with political situations. For example, Srila Prabhupada is very straightforward and blunt about the fact that Mahatma Gandhi was a total failure, for many reasons, but primarily because he was pursuing a program of non-violence and trying to apply that to politics. On a walk in Los Angeles in December 30, 1973, Srila Prabhupada states, "Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose.”

Srila Prabhupada goes on at length to describe how, in reality, Subhash Chandra Bose was the actual personality who brought about independence for Indian, and not Mahatma Gandhi. In fact, Gandhi prolonged the Colonialism by promoting his non-violence, and the British were very smart in letting him do so.

Srila Prabhupada explains that not only is Gandhi’s philosophy of non-violence bogus, the myth that he brought about independence is also bogus. Which brings up another important philosophical point: when persons in political power and position take on a saintly persona and then promote bogus philosophy that is not supported by sastra*, then one has to speak up with the truth, regardless of how unpopular it may seem to a majority of listeners. Many around the world have swallowed the Gandhi myth as though it were true, and telling the truth about the situation is the only way to beat the myth.

Corboy note: "sastra" is a Sanskrit term variously translated as law, precept, tradition.


Morning Walk

December 30, 1973, Los Angeles

?rutak?rti: Morning Walk, December 30, 1973. [break]

Praj?pati: In this morning's class you were giving us the example of the takeover of the kingship, of the br?hma?as getting rid of a bad king. So many times in the literature you've given us, whether K???a killing His uncle King Ka?sa, or the Mah?r?ja Yudhi??hira and Arjuna in the Battle of Kuruk?etra killing the old political regime that are demoniac consciousness. Is this the recommended means in Vedic literature for getting rid of bad government, or are there other means that are described, that one can get rid of demoniac government and take over with godly rulers?

Prabhup?da: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he thought that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.

Nit?i: Who went out of India?

Prabhup?da: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army.

"If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control.

When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good...Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... [break] the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods,dev?sura-yuddha. That is always there.

In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell Revolution?

Nara-n?r?ya?a: Yes.

Prabhup?da: Yes. So without revolution, (indistinct), you cannot change old order. "Old orders changes giving place to new." That old order changes... Everywhere it is by violence. The Mah?bh?rata also, the Battle of Kuruk?etra. K???a was there. He tried to settle up. But it was not settled without violence. Paritr???ya... What is that? Vin???ya ca du?k?t?m. Paritr???ya s?dh?n?? vin???ya ca du?k?t?m [Bg. 4.8.K???a also comes, vin???ya ca du?k?t?m, to, for killing the demons. K???a also comes.

Nalin?ka??ha: [break] ...will be overthrown and replaced with God conscious beings.

Wikipedia article on Subhas Chandra Bose

A note about Srila Prab's schoolmate, Subhas Chandra Bose.

The Bose family occupied a high place among the bhadralok gentry in Calcutta.

Agehananda Bharati, born in Austria as Leonard Fischer, who later became a Hindu monk, Sanskrit scholar, and anthropologist, met Bose in Vienna in the 1940s and served in Bose's Indian Foreign Legion. In his memoir, The Ochre Robe, Bharati gives a detailed and fascinating description of Bose and the Foreign Legion.

When Fischer journeyed to Calcutta to begin his monastic studies, he was greeted on arrival by the Bose family.

Corboy: Bose did not consider Gandhi's approach radical enough. Jailed by the British, Bose escaped. He came to believe it necessary to eject the British from India by giving support to the Axis (Germany and Japan) during World War II.

Bose liased with the Nazis in Germany and created the Indian Foreign Legion, mostly composed of common soldiers from India in the captured when Rommel defeated British forces in North Africa. Later, Bose journeyed by submarine, joined the Japanese government in South Asia. Bose died in a plane crash in or near Taiwan.

Bose has many passionate admirers in India today, especially amongst the militant Indian nationalists. Some are convinced Bose met his death by foul play. Conspiracy theories abound.

His admirers refer to him respectfully as Netaji Bose.

More reading on Srila Prabhupada and Bose


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2018 12:07AM by corboy.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 26, 2018 04:02AM

CHRIS BUTLER and his disciple Mike Gabbard (aka Krishna Katha ) hatred for the gay community goes back a very long time as noted in the following quote .Swami Bhaktivedanta had many disciples that where gays ...most famous was Kirtanananda Swami his long time lover Harigriva ..and many others .Swami Bhaktivedanta said many things againts homosexuality but was always compassionate in accepting the services of such disciples .In the early days of ISKCON ...there where a policy of "If you where gay and not acting out your homosexuality in ISKCON" you where WELCOME.

"One time at the Hawaii temple, Siddhasvarupa dasa (CHRIS BUTLER ) came to visit Srila Prabhupada in his private garden. After some initial conversation, Siddhasvarupa began complaining to Prabhupada about the gay devotees in ISKCON, apparently trying to prod him into making some negative statement he could later use against them. Srila Prabhupada remained silent and unimpressed, refusing to take the bait, and Siddhasvarupa left feeling disappointed. Swami Bhaktivedanta secretary , a gay disciple who had been present for the conversation, remained seated next to Srila Prabhupada, feeling angry about what he had just heard, but also somewhat self-conscious about his sexuality. After remaining silent for some time, Srila Prabhupada, perhaps sensing his secretary discomfort, said, “What is the difference if a person is held in this material world by a gold chain or by a silver chain?” the secratary replied, “I don’t know, Prabhupada.” Prabhupada continued, “I am glad that Siddhasvarupa (Chris Butler )is chanting and reading my books, but he is always focusing on everyone else and not on the Supreme Person. That is the important thing.”

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: GODHIMSELF ()
Date: December 27, 2018 02:06AM

Chris Butler has been a virulent anti-homosexual preacher since the very beginning of his "Science of Identity " cult in Hawaii.

Where does that way of thinking come from?

The guru of Chris Butler Swami Bhaktivedanta was privately very accepting of his homosexual disciples but publicly he was also a virulent anti-homosexual preacher as shown in the following quotes.

Prabhupada: “Watchtower.” It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosexual. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That’s all. So, therefore, people are thinking, “What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this.”

Conversation with the GBC, May 25, 1972, Los Angeles
Prabhupada: Now the priestly order supporting homosexual. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kirtanananda Maharaja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena pariciyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that “We are very much advanced.” Phalena, what is the result? Phalena pariciyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) “We are going to support homosex.” Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?
Devotees: Watchtower.
Prabhupada: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness.

Morning Walk, September 28, 1972, Los Angeles
Jayatirtha: Ordained priests, they have left and gone off to marry or whatever. Especially they are concerned that they can’t marry. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry.
Prabhupada: Marrying? They are marrying man to man, what to speak of marrying. Sodomy.
Jayatirtha: So that’s the alternative. Either they’re leaving or they’re marrying man to man.
Prabhupada: Homosex. They are supporting homosex. So degraded, and still they say, “What we have done?” They do not know what is degradation, and they are priest. They are teaching others. They do not know what is the meaning of degradation.
Svarupa Damodara: So if the leader is degraded, how can the followers…
Prabhupada: Similarly, scientists, they do not know what is imperfection, and they are scientists.
Devotee (2): The thing about the blind leading the blind.

Morning Walk, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles
Yasomatinandana: These Christians are very blasphemous.
Prajapati: Very blasphemous.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Party spirit.
Prabhupada: No no, what is their value? When they are sanctioning abortion, homosex, now they are finished. They have no value.
Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians, they condemn abortion and homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted… Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don’t blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.

Morning Walk, April 2, 1975, Mayapur
Prabhupada: These so-called Christians. They say that “We are very weak. We cannot restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering.” That’s all.
Trivikrama: “So let us go on sinning.”
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: Kill him again.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: “Yes, homosex is all right.” Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You’ll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that “We are eating Mother Kali’s prasada.” That’s it. This is going on.

Morning Walk, May 9, 1975, Perth
Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.

Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth
So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guna and rajo-guna, whole material world, mostly tamo-guna and few of them in rajo-guna. The symptoms of rajo-guna and tamo-guna are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guna, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guna, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kama. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guna, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guna politics and improvement of material condition.

Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth
The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization.

Morning Walk, May 13, 1975, Perth
Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravrtti-marga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravrtti-marga. So they are passing, “Yes, you can have homosex with man.” They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking… They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see.

Morning Walk, May 13, 1975, Perth
Paramahamsa: They also have that “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what is the value now of this priestly class?

Morning Walk, May 14, 1975, Perth
Prabhupada: Fourth-class men.
Amogha: Yeah.
Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that’s all, dogs and hogs. [break] …in the beginning samah. Samah, damah — first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they’re discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because…
Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man’s philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them — that’s not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy?

Morning Walk, May 21, 1975, Melbourne
That means they are gliding down towards hell, that’s all. Yositam sangi-sangam. Now they are coming to the platform of homosex. This is their advancement, spiritual advancement. Yositam sangi-sangam. This is Coca-cola, everywhere.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare, May 21, 1975, Melbourne
Prabhupada: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: “Please accept me.” The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don’t mind, I don’t find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?
Director: But homosexual is a sickness.
Devotee: He said it’s an illness.
Director: It’s an illness. It’s just like a person can’t see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can’t punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.
Prabhupada: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.
Director: Pardon?
Prabhupada: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, “All right.” And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Krishna consciousness movement.

Letter to: Lalitananda, Hawaii 26 May, 1975
I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.

Morning Walk, May 28, 1975, Honolulu
Prabhupada: Yes. So what is the use of their church and preaching?
Devotee: Well, we want to tell the others so they can also be saved.
Prabhupada: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They’re supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.
Bali-mardana: Now they are making women the priests.
Prabhupada: Women priest. Women priest, there was none before?

Letter to: Jennifer Wayne Woodward, Honolulu 10 June, 1975
First of all, you decide whether you are female or male, then be one or the other. Then, you may enter our temple any time you like. But sometimes man and sometimes woman, that is not proper. Such awkward thing cannot be allowed. It will be disturbing to others. Anyway, continue to chant Hare Krishna as much as possible.

Arrival Speech, Chicago, July 3, 1975
Nitai: “Because the body is made of senses, which also require a certain amount of satisfaction, there are regulative directions for satisfaction of such senses, but the senses are not meant for unrestricted enjoyment. For example, marriage…”
Prabhupada: That is not enjoyment. Just like sex indulgence. If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent. Nature will stop. You know impotency? That will be there. Impotency. This homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency. So things are coming so rubbish now. This is the time for preaching our program, standard. Then?
Nitai: “For example, marriage, or the combination of a man with a woman, is necessary for progeny, but it is not meant for sense enjoyment.”
Prabhupada: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don’t want. They’re not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much.

Morning Walk, July 16, 1975, San Francisco
Bahulasva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupada: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don’t think.
Bahulasva: Yeah, dogs, they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also.

Morning Walk, September 6, 1975, Vrindavana
Prabhupada: No. Para-daresu. Matravat para-daresu. That is the injunction of the sas… Other’s wife. Not that “Oh, my wife is also my mother.” Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.
Brahmananda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.
Nitai: This women’s liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They’re lesbians.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Just see. Hare Krishna. The whole world is on the verge of ruination. Kali-yuga.

Morning Walk, December 10, 1975, Vrindavana
Indian man: She was telling me when… She… I said that “Prabhupada sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because…”
Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.
Prabhupada: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius, in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.
Harikesa: In the TV, on television.
Indian man: Same thing?
Devotee (2): In France also.
Prabhupada: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the airplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing… (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-up. And, “I have no key.” She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)
Harikesa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, “Why the Swamiji doesn’t like women?”
Prabhupada: No, no, I don’t say that I don’t like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights — your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.
Aksayananda: That doesn’t mean you don’t like them.
Prabhupada: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that “If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement.”
Harikesa: Visakha was preaching to her. She said that “Actually we are less intelligent.” (laughter) That started a big scandal…
Prabhupada: Yes. And that is Krishna consciousness. [break] They are in equal right, then… Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they’ll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some… This is most immoral things.

Room Conversation, January 8, 1976, Nellore
Prabhupada: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that “Thou shall not kill;” they say, “Thou shall not murder.” They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.
Acyutananda: Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krishna: Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and the attending people are homosexual.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krishna: Now they have churches for homosex. That means the priest is a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. A special church for homosexuals.
Prabhupada: Just see. Is that religion?

Morning Walk, April 8, 1976, Mayapur
It is not their fault. The Western civilization is like that. Now you have to make a thorough change. The persons from the ecclesiastical order, they are also so polluted, they are sanctioning homosex, abortion. What can be done for the common man?

Morning Walk, June 6, 1976, Los Angeles
Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they’re supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Morning Walk, June 17, 1976, Toronto
Jagadisa: I remember, Srila Prabhupada, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to…
Prabhupada: …. association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class…. All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krishna: Am I mis…? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. You said that Vasudeva, it was known fact that he was homosex?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krishna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: He was homosex and sex, everything.
Pusta Krishna: Here, Srila Prabhupada, in this city…. I haven’t been back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I’m watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked, “What is this?” “Oh,” he says “they are lesbians.” Women together, girlfriends. They don’t mix with men.
Prabhupada: This is now very much prevalent in America.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad, January 11, 1977, India
Ramesvara: And I found an article in the Time magazine about another translator of Bhagavad-gita, Christopher Isherwood.
Prabhupada: He is rascal, another rascal.
Ramesvara: They have reported that he is a homosexual.
Prabhupada: Just see. Now, who cares for all these nonsense?
Ramesvara: In regards to brainwashing, they claim that our life-style tends to take the devotee and isolate him from the world.
Prabhupada: Yes. We hate to mix with you. No gentleman tries to mix with loafers. In England still, the rich quarter is different from the poor quarter. Is it not?

Room Conversation, February 16, 1977, Mayapura
Homosex, what is that religion? And they’re passing to homosex, religion. They’re getting married man to man. Most degraded.

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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: December 29, 2018 07:35PM

Thanks Christine and GODHIMSELF for all the work you have done.

Both of you have accomplished a Herculean task by compiling all the Butler Cult info into an accessible and readable form.

It's now up to the questioning "remainer"s in the cult or those who have snuck out to continue the exposure. Yeah, I am calling out those of you that have current documents and information but are too fearful to expose.

If you signed Non Disclosure Agreements, just look to Stormy Daniels. Nothing happens if you break those agreements and go public.

Don't be lazy. Be courageous.


~ Vera

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2018 07:36PM by Vera City.

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